Bureaucracy Trumps Morality: Nurse Lets Woman Die Because Of Policy Prohibiting CPR

nursinghome

Yesterday news broke of a nurse at a California nursing home who let an elderly woman die rather than perform CPR on her despite pleas from a 911 operator begging the nurse, or anyone standing by, to perform the procedure.

Here’s the back story, and the heart-breaking audio of the 911 call:

The idea of a nucring home policy preventing a trained medical professional from assisting someone having a health emergency with a procedure as simple as CPR is monstrous on its very face. I can’t imagine what possible excuse there could be for the policy. It is, in a word, indefensible.

“I understand if your boss is telling you, you can’t do it,” the dispatcher said. “But … as a human being … you know, is there anybody that’s willing to help this lady and not let her die?”

“Not at this time,” the nursing home employee answered without emotion.

That ends a chill down my spine.

It should be noted that the nursing home is now claiming that the nurse in question wasn’t actually a nurse, but the woman identified herself during the 911 call as a nurse and the nursing home won’t comment on whether or not the woman is licensed as a nurse. So, she was probably a nurse but wasn’t acting as a nurse at that time. Which seems to me to be a distinction without a difference.

What troubles me more is what this portends for our society as a whole, because in this incident I think we’re getting a glimpse of the future of health care in America. As policies such as Obamacare make health care more bureaucratic, as government and private sector bureaucrats impose a dizzying maze of regulations on health care intended to address a cost explosion that is very much a result of other government regulations, I think the grim spectacle of someone being allowed to die for want of care prohibited by one policy or another is going to become more familiar to us.

As the government takes a firmer grip on health care, managing it more thoroughly for the greater good, these individual tragedies will become more common.

Rob Port is the editor of SayAnythingBlog.com. In 2011 he was a finalist for the Watch Dog of the Year from the Sam Adams Alliance and winner of the Americans For Prosperity Award for Online Excellence. In 2013 the Washington Post named SAB one of the nation's top state-based political blogs, and named Rob one of the state's best political reporters. He writes a weekly column for several North Dakota newspapers, and also serves as a policy fellow for the North Dakota Policy Council.

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  • schreib

    Here in ND as a nurse one must assume someone is a full code unless you know that they are DNR. At a nursing home facility, to be a DNR you need a doctors order signed by the doctor and signed by the responsible party. When someone is ill, I as a nurse look in thier chart to see what they or their families wishes are. Do they want this person transferred to the hospital or are they “no transfer comfort care only”. For a nurse in the state of ND to call 911 and stand by and not initiate CPR on someone who is NOT a DNR would place their license on the line with the state board of nursing. It would be considered neglect.

    • Lianne

      My question is in reference to the purpose of the call in the first place if CPR isn’t part of the care. I haven’t listened today to all the hub-bub, but that would be my question. And, yes, knwoing the status of the person who is in your care is upmost important.

  • Are You Safe

    How about when a county 911 syatem sets up their ambulance response zones, (or should I say gerrymeander), so a rural farmstead that is one mile from a city with an ambulance service, has to recieve ambulance service from a city that is 18 miles away?

    It has been done here in ND.

    • Lianne

      It always comes down to money, doesn’t it? Will one county pay for another county’s services? It is sad that they can’t ignore the county lines fro the real purpose which is attempting to save lives.

      • awfulorv

        There always seems to be funds available to pay for illegal Mexican, and other, immigrants though, does there not? Remember, every dollar spent on the undeserving, is one less that will be spent on your loved ones. But this may be too complex for the “Low Information, and Religious Bigoted, voters”, to grasp.

        • Lianne

          I don’t believe that illegal Mexican care is the issue here in ND for one county not paying for another, unless it is along the eastern border. The mandate to treat all you enter ER should have included legal citizens. California, Texas and Oklahoma are badly hit by illegals abusing the system.

          • awfulorv

            Are they using some sort of Scrip, and not money, along the Eastern border of ND then? Do tell the rest of the states what’s being used then, as they’ve been squandering a fearful amount of fiat money with the policies presently in use.

  • Lianne

    . This incident raises many questions. Do we know the whole story? No. It was reported in the interview with her daughter, a nurse herself, that she understood the actions of not doing CPR. A DNR is a very important part of quality of life. If that was the policy of the facility, the person or family member had to agree to it. A DNR status, as it is often referred, has been a part of nursing home care for quite some time. And it is as much a part of the dignity of life as prohibiting late term abortions.
    I am as incensed as you are about Obamacare or more to the point, the lack thereof. NEVER should the government determine when a person’s life is expendible. But, at the same time, one has the right to refuse treatment. That includes not having one’s ribs broken, which often leads to pneumonia, esp. with the elderly, which leads to a painful death. You are young and the thought of dying is way off your radar, so to speak, If people did live forever, then, by all means everything should be done, but that is not the case.
    I believe the media grabbed a hold of this story, probably given to them by the 911 operator, and ran with it without checking the facts. If anyone’s job should be at stack, it should be the operator if she did run to the media.

    • http://sayanythingblog.com Rob
      • http://realitybasedbob.sayanythingblog.com/ realitybasedbob

        Glenwood Gardens, say is that a for profit privately run independent living home?

        Something something something, death panels.

        • http://sayanythingblog.com Rob

          Right, let’s ignore that insurance.and health care are the most regulated industries in America.

          • http://realitybasedbob.sayanythingblog.com/ realitybasedbob

            So, it’s a private, for profit enterprise then?

          • http://sayanythingblog.com Rob

            Operating in a market that’s pretty much controlled by the government, yes.

          • Hannitized, Proofs obsession

            What aspects of the insurance industry are controlled by the government?

          • Hannitized, Proofs obsession

            When you sprinkle logic on Rob’s comments….they shrivel up like a slug who had salt poured all over it.

      • Lianne

        One story reports that the people in her building are not cared for by staff. It seems they have an open DR. Should Glenwood Gardens do CPR on everyone? Once they are under their roof, I would assume so, but I stand by my belief that CPR on an elderly person is painful. It is not black and white.

        • PK

          Yes, death is much more pleasant right? She could’ve had another decade of life, but..

          • Lianne

            I hope you are as incensed over the 15 member panel as you are this on episode.

          • PK

            Yeah, i don’t know why you would ask me that. I’m not for Obamacare or death panels. It’s called eugenics.

    • PK

      The woman didn’t have a DNR order, which is confirmed by the fire department. The home let her die, probably because she didn’t have any money left, to make room for their next victim.

      http://abcnews.go.com/US/wireStory/calif-woman-dies-nurse-refuses-cpr-18653984

    • David J Hallman

      If there was a dnr then the paramedics would not have done cpr. They did.

  • Kat

    We do not know if that patient in question had a DNR. If she did have a DNR, it is considered illegal to perform CPR. A DNR is a legal document stating that someone does not want any extraneous interventions done if their life is rapidly deteriorating, and it is decided by the patient. If someone breaks a DNR, it is morally and ethically wrong and can have legal implications. Get all sides of the story before posting this. We do not know if the woman had a DNR, and if she did, then the nurse or whoever it was is obligated not to perform CPR. Nursing Homes have had laws about when to call 911 long before Obamacare, and again, get the facts before you post.

    • PK

      Yes we do know that there was no DNR order. It’s open and shut. They didn’t do CPR because of their policy. I think Rob had his bases covered.

      • David J Hallman

        We know there was no dnr. Paramedics did cpr. Would nto have done cpr if dnr present.Case closed.

        • PK

          Yep.

    • David J Hallman

      The paramedics did cpr. They wouldnt have if there was a dnr.

  • Neiman

    This is a bullshit story by haters. There are credible reports of a DNR order signed by the patient, in that case YOU DO NOT RESUSCITATE, it is a crime to violate that order, to ignore the final wish of the patient. If the company had a policy of not to resuscitate, but to get Paramedics in to do the job, the nurse places herself at a double legal risk to resuscitate.

    In get sick of the conservatives, usually screaming about liberty, here denying the patient the right not to be resuscitated. If the government ordered her not to be resuscitated, they might have a point, but this was the patient’s desire.

    Let us face facts, conservatives do not care about this old lady in this case, just mindlessly blaming big government healthcare.

    • PK

      It’s confirmed there was no DNR order though. That’s why the first people on the scene, firefighters, immediately began CPR until they got to the hospital.

      • Neiman

        NOTHING is confirmed, the story is still unclear, now it seems it was not a licensed medical care facility at all, but an Independent Living facility and the lady was not a nurse, but a facility director.

        If it was a licensed medical facility and a DNR existed and the lady was a nurse, she was right in refusing to give CPR. If it was not such a facility and she was not a nurse, then it is a different set of circumstances. We can only react moment by moment on available information.

        • PK

          Haha, whatever.

          “Staff members are “required to perform and provide CPR” unless there’s a
          do-not-resuscitate order, said Greg Crist, a senior vice president at
          the American Health Care Association.

          Bayless did not have such an order[DNR] on file at the facility, said
          Battalion Chief Anthony Galagaza of the Bakersfield Fire Department,
          which was the first on the scene. That’s when firefighters immediately
          began CPR, continuing until she reached the hospital.” ABC News.

      • Lianne

        They assumed there was no DNR. There would be no chart because she lived in an apt complex. So unless California requres bracelets on everyone who is a DNR, they started CPR because that is their protocol when called to a scene. There are many questions.
        But, NOT giving CPR is NOT immoral as the headline states. CPR is NOT without pain or trauma to the body. This does bring to the forefront the importance of discussing with a doctor, family member and carrying such information with you at all times.

        • PK

          I provided a media source with the fire department stating on record there was no DNR order. Please provide documentation stating the contrary. I would like to see something that suggests that, considering i’ve read around 12 different articles that are all clear that there was no DNR order. I’m a fan of the truth and would like to be debunked if i’m wrong.

          • Neiman

            Unlike you, I have a job and cannot invest much time in research and can only react as the information appears, so I must insist I was right with the information available.

            Of course, Imagine how you will just disappear if further information in coming days and weeks possibly prove you wrong.

          • PK

            I’m sorry i upset you with what’s on record. I’m glad you have a job. I as well work to provide a living for myself. 100% freeman right here. Living the American dream being self employed in one of the best fields in the state. You can assume whatever you want, but it wouldn’t bother me if i’m proven wrong, considering dozens of news publications would have to make a retraction. I can only go off of the data available and i gave my analysis based off such data.

          • Neiman

            “I can only go off of the data available and i gave my analysis based off such data.”

            So have I and that is as they the name of that tune.

          • slackwarerobert

            I don’t see how being freeman and being stuck with ALL the taxes makes you feel better. Having to pay unemployment insurance, yet can’t collect it. No it just makes you relieved you are not a bigger part of the rat race. If the idiotas ever realized how many jobs the government keeps them from having with the tax code they would revolt.

          • Lianne

            Again, I would like to know HOW they knew that as they arrived at the scene. Did they contact her doctor on the way? doubt they could even get through in those few minutes.

            Should there be an investigation? Probably. Were the apts owned by the Glenwood Gardens? That would add another dimension.
            do I wonder if all the residents or family members had signed an agreement for no CPR? Yes, I do.

          • PK

            Yeah Glenwood Gardens is an assisted living complex that provides limited care, that’s adjacent to an actual nursing home. Limited care as in the people living there don’t require around the clock care like people in nursing homes, but who may need help getting to the doctor or opening a can of soup. It’s not a regular apartment complex, it is assisted living. They had a file on hand and there was no DNR order in it, which is why first responders started CPR immediately. The home didn’t do CPR because of their policy, which is not the same policy as the adjacent nursing home, but it’s all part of Glenwood Gardens.

          • Neiman

            Sane response. Let the story develop now, too much flak out there, but as I stated, if a DNR was in force – then do no CPR, if not and policy is call the FD for legal reasons, what choice did she have?

    • David J Hallman

      You need help. Not a lot of dnr orders in assisted living. More in nursing homes. She didnt say there was a dnr. She said her boss said she could give cpr as part of her job. Maybe you just need reading lessons.

      • PK

        The fire department is reported saying there was no DNR and the living center has never once used a DNR order as an excuse for not giving CPR. They’ve defended themselves saying it’s not their policy or responsibility to provide care. Nothing about a DNR, so i’m not sure why everyone(not you) is talking about a DNR to rationalize what happened. It’s clear they let her die.

      • Neiman

        Maybe you need psychiatric help/

  • borborygmi

    A glimpse of health care? Even though this was a private for profit company?

    • PK

      What do you think Obamacare is? It’s private insurance companies(banks) that will benefit. There’s a mandate to buy insurance from private companies. It’s classical fascism blended with collectivist Communism. But Hitler and Lenin were good people just trying to form a better world.

    • PK

      Insurance companies base the premiums on the amount they paid in the previous year in claims. They take your money, invest it in the stock market making nice profits, but will never dip into those profits if they pay more in claims than brought in for premiums. They raise your rates when they pay out more than they bring in, never telling you about the boat loads of money they made investing your money. Insurance companies and government then raise healthcare costs by forcing hospitals, clinic and doctors to hire big bureaucracies to battle the insurance companies for their money and to keep in line with the government regulations. Now they say we have to buy this “service” from private companies, to fix a problem that was created by both of them, or pay a steep penalty. And anyone who doesn’t like it is a racist.

  • mickey_moussaoui

    Don’t blame the nurse, blame the lawyers.

  • Hannitized, Proofs obsession

    The private sector fails again…

    • Gary

      That would include you. Or are you still sponging off the tax payers?

  • Hannitized, Proofs obsession

    I wonder what Rob has to say about the many lives firemen and police save, daily.

    Nutters…..they just don’t know what fight to pick.

    • PK

      What are you talking about?

      • Wayne

        Hanni is simply a hater.

        • Hannitized, Proofs obsession

          Your a hater and a stalker.

          • two_amber_lamps

            “Accuse others of what you do.”

            -Karl Marx

          • Hal513

            That would be “you’re” not “your,” you uneducated turd.

      • Hannitized, Proofs obsession

        The government is in the business of saving lives already. It’s called Police and FPD. You got a problem with the way they run things?

        • LisaS

          My deepest sympathies in the loss of your greatest hero, the communist hugo chavez

        • PK

          Well in my city/county i have no major issues. The Sheriff is awesome. You wouldn’t like him because he’s for the 2nd Amendment, but most people around here do. Even though the county i live in is safe, mainly because we have actual communities, doesn’t mean i don’t acknowledge the fact that government is the main cause of non-natural death of all time and must always be kept in check. People getting arrested for filming police is wrong and is not saving lives. Swat teams raiding family’s homes in the middle of the night, shooting their dog because it barked, terrorizing children to get 3 oz of prescription marijuana isn’t saving lives. Obamacare will not save lives. It will only lead to higher healthcare costs, less employment, reduced care, eugenics(forced abortions and euthenasia) and last but not least, the disarmament of the American people c/o the mental health field. You people are not going to win.

          • Hannitized, Proofs obsession

            The Sherrif likes all of his criminals to be armed with semi-auto’s and fully automatics? Is that what you are saying?

          • PK

            The highest ranking and only elected law enforcement servant, who believes in a God given right enshrined in the Constitution, is a criminal and his constituents are his criminal servants? You are such a traitor. You’re subversion isn’t working here.

          • Hannitized, Proofs obsession

            That’s a very strange and paranoid conclusion based on stupidity and ignorance. But what about the Sherrif? Doe he like his criminals to be armed with fully auto and semi auto rifles, or not?

          • PK

            “The Sherrif likes all of HIS criminals”
            You implied that he’s a mafia Don wanting HIS criminals armed. It wasn’t a stupid or ignorant response, i’m just reading what you said so look in the mirror. Last time i checked we don’t have a gun crime issue. A young Somalian
            man was murdered in 2011, but he wasn’t shot. There’s 21,000 people
            that live in the county, and probably well over 100,000 firearms. Guns are
            not the problem. People commit crimes, not guns. A free society comes with a level of danger, but not nearly as much as a disarmed society subject to the rule of a government who has all the guns and criminals who don’t obey gun laws. I think the Sheriff understands that.

          • Hannitized, Proofs obsession

            I can’t help you if you read stupidly. A sheriff is responsible for his jurisdiction. If there are criminals in his jurisdiction, there his problem. So does your sheriff want his criminals armed with fully automatic weapons and semi-auto’s, yes or no?

            And nobody is talking about a “disarmed society”. That’s just you using hyperbole and lies to change the argument that you can’t win using logic and reason.

          • PK

            Criminals, that is felons, can’t have firearms of any kind whether they’re single shot of machine guns. I can’t speak for him, but i would think he doesn’t want felons to have firearms. It’s his job to make sure they don’t have them. That doesn’t mean you take law-abiding citizens firearms away to keep them from the felons. Your argument his bogus.

          • Hannitized, Proofs obsession

            Speaking of bogus arguments. Let me ask you a very honest question, and let’s watch you avoid it.

            How many people do you think were law abiding citizens before they decided commit crimes, murders or assaults with guns? Let’s make it even easier for you…let’s narrow it down to spree killers. How many spree killers were law abiding citizens until they started using their guns to murder innocent people, by the dozens?

            You’re damned right the Sherrif doesn’t want bad guys having full autos or even semi-auto’s with large magazines. He shouldn’t want spree killers using them either. But if you allow those types of guns to be legal, the bad guys are going to be running around with them.

          • Onslaught1066

            How many people do you think were law abiding citizens before they decided commit crimes.

            The short answer is, none.

            The long answer would bore you so you may now tune out as I explain to people far less stupid than you.

            The definition of “Law Abiding” is, one who abides by the law.

            If one “decides” to commit crime, they are not, by definition, “Law Abiding”.

            hanniturd here has a very loose grasp of what words mean as evidenced by his 6 year struggle to try to convince even one other person to agree with him that “camp” is actually short for campaign.

          • slackwarerobert

            None of them. They were violating the gun free zone laws before they shot anyone, so were already criminals. Just not convicted criminals. Giffords was a political hit for voting against pelosi. Let me ask you a question, if the parole board says they are safe to let out of prison, why are we not safe if they have a gun while out of prison?

          • JoeMN

            How many people do you think were law abiding citizens before they decided commit crimes, murders or assaults with guns?
            Hanny

            This argument you make is really quite specious.
            What does the spree killer care whether the gun he chooses is illegal ?
            In fact, using your logic we have already one upped him by making murder illegal.

            Yet he persists.

            So if we want to PREVENT the spree killer from killing we have a couple of options.

            We could just go ahead and jail those we think may be predisposed to spree killing BEFORE they break any laws
            Or we could increase penalties for the recidivist felons which have been known to commit most violent crimes.

          • Hannitized, Proofs obsession

            I think you missed the point. The point is that spree killers were generally gun owning law abiding citizens, until they went bad. Then, in an instant, they were criminals the moment they shot their first victim.

            So the point is Americans want to remove the option for spree killers to be more efficient in their spree killing efforts. Semi-auto’s have been a weapon of choice in more than a few spree killing’s.

            The new legislation will save lives. it’s not designed to completely stop crime, you can’t.

          • Onslaught1066

            I think you missed the pot, your boardies are damp and yellow stained… again.

            Spree killers are gun owning criminals.

            Law abiding gun owners are not spree killers.

            BTW camp is still not short for campaign.

          • Hannitized, Proofs obsession

            You’re an idiot. Virtually every spree killer was a law abiding citizen until they went bad. Some of them were gun owners, some of them had access to guns from family members. These facts harm your position and you know it. That’s why you are always acting like an 8yr old.

          • Onslaught1066

            You are the one for whom a dictionary is merely a list of suggestions.

            Law Abiding means, abides by the law, do you have some reputable authoritative source which has a different definition for Law Abiding?

            If so, please share, we all love to laugh at you.

            “Went bad”? I think you are confusing yourself, that smell is the pant-load you constantly carry around with you due to the improper toilet training you received from your alcoholic mother.

            Perhaps if you were to stop by a daycare center, they might be able to help you out with your little problem.

          • guest

            Do you know how many of these alleged law abiding citizens had committed crimes but were not caught?
            Since you are a documented tax cheat, you are not a law abiding citizen, if even a citizen. Who are you planning to kill with your semi automatic weapons and high capacity magazines?

          • two_amber_lamps

            Doh!! Truth hurts!

          • PK

            What’s this about Hanni being a tax cheat that has weapons? Is this true or are you just teasing?

          • two_amber_lamps

            He’s bragged numerous times in the past about his SKS…. as evidenced in the past when he tried to educate us about 30 round/hi capacity “clips”….

            ================================================================

            HAWAII.GOV Bureau of
            Conveyances -Official Public

            Records

            Document

            Number R2007203358

            Recording Date

            Recording Date:

            Date instrument
            recorded.

            YYYY-MM-DD

            2007-11-21

            Document Category:

            Judgment/LienConveyanceMiscellaneousMortgageReleaseUniform

            Commercial Code

            Description

            NOTICE OF LIEN

            (INCLUDES COUNTY,
            FEDERAL & STATE TAX LIENS; MARITIME LIEN)

            Grantor Grantor:

            Party transferring

            interest.

            BONILLA WILLIAM

            L II

            Grantee Grantee:

            Party acquiring
            interest.

            HAWAII

            STATE-TAX

            =====================================================

          • two_amber_lamps

            Nor is ice short for ice cream but then he’ll chase his tail to the end of his days trying to convince us otherwise….

          • PK

            Based off your logic, we need to turn the entire country into a giant prison and put microchips into our brains so the government can read our thoughts to keep us all safe. Guilty until proven innocent. Do you deny that last century alone governments killed over 250 million of their own people? That’s not even including all the wars. Those people didn’t have firearms to defend themselves because they were taken from them. Millions of people were shot in the head, on their knees, in ditches. Millions were marched into gas chambers. Millions were worked to death in forced labor camps. Millions were murdered protecting their own lands from seizure. How many people were killed by rogue mass shooters? A few thousand maybe, and that’s a big maybe? Doing the math…that’s about .0012% of what governments killed. That’s why we have the 2nd Amendment, to protect us against the government and invading foreign nations. Why didn’t Japan want to invade? Why didn’t Hitler invade? Gun confiscation started the Revolutionary War and the Texas Revolution. If China launches an invasion tomorrow morning, would you rather there be millions of people armed with ar-15s, ar-10s, hk g-3s, ak-47s and Berret .50 cals or bolt actions that only hold 5 rounds and are slow to load? If the 2nd Amendment only applies to what the Founders had, single shot firearms, and not semi-autos, then the 1st Amendment can’t apply to TV and the internet, just books.

          • Hannitized, Proofs obsession

            That was comical. SERIOUSLY???

          • Hal513

            What is comical is you, the owner of semi automatic weapons and a documented tax cheat preaching anything to anyone.

          • PK

            So people didn’t get their guns taken, then murdered later by their government?

          • Hannitized, Proofs obsession

            Microchips????? You’re a nut ball.

          • PK

            Ok i’ll pretend that technology doesn’t exist and there isn’t ongoing research and development. I’ll pretend we don’t have remote controlled insects that have microchips hooked into their brains so we can make them do whatever we want. I’ll pretend we can’t link animals brains together. I happen to live in reality and recognize that there are no limits to what we can do, both good and evil. Are you a Christian, or is that only for nut-job freaks too?

            http://www.nytimes.com/2013/03/01/science/new-research-suggests-two-rat-brains-can-be-linked.html?_r=0

            http://www.technologyreview.com/news/411814/the-armys-remote-controlled-beetle/

          • PK

            We have remote controlled rats(mammals) too with electronics hooked directly into their brains.

            http://news.nationalgeographic.com/news/2002/05/0501_020501_roborats.html

          • Hannitized, Proofs obsession

            Why do you believe the government will put microchips in our brains and read our thoughts???

          • PK

            If you would read what i said, “Based off YOUR LOGIC, we need to turn the entire country into a giant prison and put microchips into our brains so the government can read our thoughts to keep us all safe.”

            I was using the only solution imaginable to stop all gun crime, because you said, “How many people do you think were law abiding citizens before they decided commit crimes, murders or assaults with guns?”

            I was giving an example of where your type of twisted logic will lead this world if you look at everyone as a potential criminal. Criminals will always have guns, because the governments of the world will always have them. Why can’t we even keep drugs out of our PRISONS? If we can’t keep drugs out of the prisons, do you honestly think we can keep firearms from criminals? Just look at Chicago and DC. Highest murder rates in the world and they have the strictest gun laws. Now look at North Dakota. We have a very high gun ownership rate and one of the lowest violent crime rates in the country. This isn’t a coincidence. Who’s going to rob a house in ND when you can go on a spree in Chicago with no threat of getting shot? Who’s going to shoot up a school if the staff have guns? The people doing these mass shootings are evil cowards.

          • slackwarerobert

            I worked with one way back when they put them in your teeth. He never told me if they read his thoughts, but did say they controlled him and made him do things he didn’t want to.

          • PK

            Is Rand Paul crazy for filibustering the CIA nominee because he wants the President to answer if he’ll kill non-combatants with drones? Government wouldn’t kill us right? Watch it live.

            http://www.c-span.org/Live-Video/C-SPAN2/

          • PK

            Non-combatant US citizens that is.

          • Hannitized, Proofs obsession

            What does drones strikes have to do with your 2nd amendment argument? If you are a traitor and you go to war against America you have no more rights as a citizen, not that that has ANYTHING to do with your second amendment rights.

            Do you think owning a semi-auto is going to protect you from a drone attack? Huh????

          • PK

            It wasn’t about drone strikes moron. It’s about killing non-combatant Americans in America with any weapon. People suspected of plotting something, but not engaging in an attack. No due process, just execution.

          • Hannitized, Proofs obsession

            So when you talked about drone strikes, you weren’t talking about drones? Huh????

          • PK

            Sorry, i thought you would maybe pay attention to what was going on in Congress, considering i gave you a link to it live. Drones were just the most talked about weapon that could be used to kill us.

          • slackwarerobert

            Yes they are, why do you think they pass so many laws, they are trying to disarm everyone who breaks a law, with so many you are bound to break one no matter what you do. Now when criminals who have not abused a gun are allowed to carry guns, then I will side with you.

          • slackwarerobert

            You don’t know, and that is why you don’t disarm. Can you list anytime a crooked cop announces before hand he is going to rob you and violate your rights. All the crooked ones I know wait till after they take your gun from you, that is why I don’t give all mine up, just the one. Before you go on a rant, yews I will shoot someone with a badge, without even hesitating if my life is in danger, and if in the right location my property. stand your ground has no crooked cop exception.
            obama is my only problem, I won’t know till I am shooting if I will shoot him, or his guards threatening my life first. they work for him, so he is responsible for their actions. If one, then probably just drop him, but more than one I need to make sure the responsible party goes down with me. I can’t prove they are all crooks, but I won’t risk my life hoping the one drawing on me is not one of the crooks. When two dozen SS agents who don’t know each other feel ok buying hookers and then not paying them, that means to me there is a policy of criminal activity being OK, or they would never be so open about it.

        • slackwarerobert

          They have areas where the fireman will stand there and let your house burn down if you don’t pay your “donations”. How is this different?

        • Onslaught1066

          Police are in the business of enforcing the law.

          Firefighters are in the business of fighting fires.

          For some Firefighters it is a hobby.

          It could be argued that Doctors are in the business of saving lives… but not by obama, who is quoted as saying that Doctors will perform unnecessary amputations in order to charge money for this service.

          You are, apparently, in the business of “making business” in your pants, and it shows with your every posting.

  • Waski_the_Squirrel

    It is scary that this would be a blanket policy. This should up to the individual or family ahead of time. Medicine should always err on the side of preserving life.

    However, it is important to know the full facts about CPR. CPR is only effective in 5-10% of cases, and it is less effective with an older person. Also, CPR can easily result in broken bones, and is even more likely to do so in the case of an older person.

    It is highly unlikely that CPR would have helped the woman and, even if it did, her quality of life might have been a lot lower. Nevertheless, she (or responsible family) should have had the choice. Educated on its actual effectiveness, it is likely she would have chosen not to be given CPR. However, it doesn’t sound like there was a choice.

  • David J Hallman

    As a professional who serves on a state board,If a dnr was not present the nurse has a duty to help under the licensure rules. I doubt a dnr was present since the caller didnt say there was a dnr. She said she couldnt help because they werent a nursing facility.

    • schreib

      Exactly. However, during the 911 call, the woman stated she was a nurse. Later, the facility said she was not. What is the truth? Why would she say she was a nurse if that was not the case? Someone is trying to cover their tracks it seems.

  • borborygmi

    For profit……hmmm ran out of money either personal fortune or insurance. Yay profit,perfect solution to create death panels

  • borborygmi

    Obama Care wanted Drs to discuss end of life with patients. Someone would have most likely discuss DNR. and medical power of attorney. That is bad say the conservatives.

    • Lianne

      No, what is bad is demanding that DNR be promoted and controlled by the 15 member panel.

  • Lynn Bergman

    It is an assisted living facility; you don’t pay for health care… so you don’t get it.
    The world is a dangerous place, not because of those who do evil, but because of those who face evil and do nothing about it.
    All the dispatcher would have had to do was a deep voice imitating satan, saying “I will welcome you to Hell if you continue to do nothing.. come my child, you will love the temperature here…”

  • mikemc1970

    Welcome to Utilitarian Bioethics. The progressive arm of the medical community. You’ve progressed from being a distinct and valuable human in to being just another piece of meat.

  • JoeMN

    My question is what the heck is wrong with the media ?
    All the pertinent details which would make this a tragedy or a dud are missing
    Of course this is exactly how death panels work as well.

    • borborygmi

      especially for profit death panels

  • Bubba

    the type of care provided by assisted living facilities varies widely, depending on cerificate of need, licensure status, and business model. many for profit alf’s do not provide nursing care due to increased operational costs. essentially you end up with high occupancy retirement homes, guaranteed state and federal rent payments, and no downside risk from provision of care. conservatives have done fantastic work expanding the availability of federal funding to private real estate investment trusts that provide through affiliated management companies retirement housing for to moderate income seniors. This group had no private or public obligation to help this poor lady, and may very well have been prohibited from doing so by laws passed by Repiblican congressman.

  • Neiman

    THIS IS A BREAKING NEWS UPDATE. Check back soon for further information. AP’s earlier story is below.

    A woman who died after a nurse at her elder home refused to provide CPR had chosen to live in a facility without medical staff and wanted to pass away without life-prolonging intervention, her family said Tuesday.

    Lorraine Bayless’ family said in a statement to The Associated Press that it does not plan to sue the independent living facility where the 87-year-old woman died last week.

    Bayless did not have a “do not resuscitate” order on file at the home, city fire officials have said. Her family said, however, “it was our beloved mother and grandmother’s wish to die naturally and without any kind of life-prolonging intervention.”

    Brookdale Senior Living of Brentwood, Tenn., the parent company of Glenwood Gardens, released a statement Tuesday saying the woman on the 911 call was “serving in the capacity of a resident services director, not a nurse.”

    It also said that by law, the independent living facility is “not licensed to provide medical care to any of its residents.”

    http://xfinity.comcast.net/articles/news-national/20130304/US.No.CPR.Woman.Dies/

    Lets face though, the public is mad – so no trial, no further evidence, just hang her

    • http://realitybasedbob.sayanythingblog.com/ realitybasedbob

      Nice job doing the leg work on this one, Old Pal.
      I knew you were right on the money about this one.
      It’s good that you and I agree on some things, huh.

      • Neiman

        I am not your pal liar.

        We agree on nothing.

        • http://realitybasedbob.sayanythingblog.com/ realitybasedbob

          We agree you are not my pal, Old Pal.
          That’s gotta count for something.
          Right?

          • Neiman

            Problem is you keep calling me your pal, meaning you think you are my pal, which makes you not just a liar but delusional.

    • tony_o2

      It also said that by law, the independent living facility is “not licensed to provide medical care to any of its residents.”

      If someone is bleeding to death, can you provide first aid without a license? If someone is choking, can you perform the heimlich maneuver without a license? If someone is having an allergic reaction, do you need a license to give them an EpiPen?

      Just because they are not a licensed medical facility does not mean that individuals who are CPR certified are prohibited from giving CPR. It seems that it is a company policy that needs to be changed. Unless someone has a DNR, anyone with the ability should be allowed to administer life saving procedures.

      • Neiman

        No argument here.

      • slackwarerobert

        Not in california, between the lawyers, the illegals, the gay activists, the high unemployment statistics, and the way to high cost of living. With every story of people ignoring company policy to save lifes ending in you being out of work, I don’t blame her, I don’t know why she stayed on the phone though, just call, make your report, and hang up.

    • http://sayanythingblog.com Rob

      It is pretty clear the nurse on the phone didn’t know about the DNR.

      Which makes this update irrelevant.

      • Neiman

        No, it just makes everything confused and everyone is rushing to judgment, some of you are just in the mood for a hanging.

      • Lianne

        Until we know more, the woman who called could have had an agenda of her own. She sounded extremely calm when reporting to the other person on site. We don’t know the details. Her daughter is a nurse and I would think informed about the options available for her mother. that assumption could be wrong.

        • slackwarerobert

          Well we know grandma should have had “life lock” for when her worthless daughter shows up and wont help. Why wouldn’t she be calm, she was following procedures, with her boss backing her up. Would you want a nurse who panics and doesn’t call for help?

    • tony_o2

      And if this woman was a nurse (whether or not she was serving as a nurse for the facility) it is ethically and morally wrong for her to chose company policy over her life-saving abilities.

      • Neiman

        The situation is too muddy right now, we are all reacting to fragmented information.

        Some early evidence suggests there was no DNR order, but the patient did not want CPR and the family knew it and agreed to no CPR. Perhaps the woman involved knew all this and it influenced her hesitation.

        Some early evidence suggest this woman was not a nurse at all nor trained in CPR and was in fear to do anything, as the company policy said do not treat anyone, we are not a medical facility, just call 911.

        Early evidence suggests she could still have followed 911 advice or gotten someone else nearby to help. Fear can paralyze people.

        Wait a few days before we hang her, I suspect more clarifications are forthcoming.

    • PK

      “Bayless’ family said she was aware that Glenwood Gardens did not offer
      trained medical staff, yet opted to live there anyway. “It was our
      beloved mother and grandmother’s wish to die naturally and without any
      kind of life prolonging intervention,” said the statement. “We
      understand that the 911 tape of this event has caused concern, but our
      family knows that mom had full knowledge of the limitations of Glenwood
      Gardens and is at peace.”

      It was her wish to die naturally and she had full knowledge of the limitations of care, but nothing on paper?

      “The home’s parent company, Brookdale Senior Living, later said, “This
      incident resulted from a complete misunderstanding of our practice with
      regards to emergency medical care for our residents. Glenwood Gardens is
      conducting a full internal investigation.” The company said the
      employee was on voluntary leave during the process.”

      Now there’s a misunderstanding in the company’s emergency care policy? That’s the defense they’ve been using this whole time.

  • wogie

    This is why you always read the fine print BEFORE you put your parents or loved ones in a nursing home. I am sure if they go back and look at the contract that the family signed it will say something about this. And when they signed the contract they agreed to said terms. If this is the case then I see nothing wrong with it.
    That and in todays “SUE HAPPY WORLD” this nurse is damned if she does and damned if she doesn’t.

    • slackwarerobert

      The family did read and was told verbally the policy. Whether grandma understood we will never know. But now they want to blame the nurse when the boss was right their as well. Typical obama supporter, do what I told you and if they find out you go down for it.

  • Stuart

    It’s just like the Forum News Paper…image over substance…and Obama Care won’t really care. Death squads over morality. If abortion in the bulk of America is considered civil,why are we so concerned about this policy? We aren’t concerned about policies that stifle job growth and cause people to be driven into depression which can cause them to commit suicide, then we must accept policies of this nature or get back to the
    Natural God given laws of morality. What’s so difficult to understand about progressive attitudes? It’s me..me..me..and I control my own body and you’d better not tell me what to do with it. This policy smacks of the same vein of thought, we are warned in Colossians 2:8 . Come on people lets compromise our morality..can’t we just all get along? Life is no longer sacred..and this is the road most traveled nowadays ! Moralist will be targeted as a risk toward national security.

  • slackwarerobert

    Heart breaking? I couldn’t stop laughing. Isn’t there someone else you could give the phone to, not at this time….. ROFLMAF!!

    But you can bet this person was educated by the government, and lived way to long in california.
    This is why you should raise your children to respect life, and not abort it when it is inconvenient.

    Also CPR would do no good if they are not breathing, government says you just beat on their chest now no breathing needed. thank you aids spreaders for that one.
    Only thing could make this story better was if she told the 911 operator it was bushes fault.

  • slackwarerobert

    But what great timing. As moonbeam is trying to get nurses to act like doctors and treat you, we see nurses can’t even handle CPR. Yet the california government wants them to dispense medicine, deliver babies, probably perform abortions, and who knows what else.

    At least if she does get fired she has a promising career as the head of a school with zero tolerance policies.

  • Waski_the_Squirrel

    For anyone interested, the family will not be suing. Their wishes and their mother’s wishes have been met by the way this was handled.

    http://news.yahoo.com/family-woman-denied-cpr-wanted-no-intervention-013800673.html

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