Say Anything Blog

Most arguments against the ideas of SiCKO are that government is not as capable of handling health care as big business.
This poll clearly shows that although america is losing confidence in itself, it has more confidence in it’s biggest state run instutions than big business OR HMOs.

The fact that congress is last on the list just goes to show that america has no confidence in the people it elects.
Odd indeed.

The fact that congress is last on the list just goes to show that america has no confidence in the people it elects.

Or maybe America has no confidence in the people it elects because the last bunch they elected promised to clean up corruption and so far have proven themselves more corrupt than the pols they replaced!

Better to have it and not need it than need it and not have it.

Or maybe America has no confidence in the people it elects because the last bunch they elected promised to clean up corruption and so far have proven themselves more corrupt than the pols they replaced!

From what I can tell americans accept corrupt leaders and the result is that they get them over and over again.
If you think this lack of confidence is something new then you should read a little deeper into the articles you post.

The current confidence rating for Congress—14%—is the lowest in Gallup’s history for that institution. Although ratings of Congress have never been high, they were at the 40% level at the time of Watergate in the 1970s, and again in 1986.

Chack out this analysis from the same poll.

Americans’ confidence in the presidency has dropped concomitantly with the drop in Bush’s approval ratings. In 2002, 58% were confident in the presidency compared to the current 25%. President Bush’s job approval ratings have fallen from 84% at the beginning of 2002 to 32% today.

Approval of congress drops 2 points while in the same year the approval of the presidency (bush) drops 8 points. Whose point are you trying to make here?

This is fun and all but considering that the intent of your post was to show that america has more faith in HMOs than the people it elects would you care to comment on my main analysis that the poll actually disproves one of the central arguments against the movies premise?

This is fun and all but considering that the intent of your post was to show that america has more faith in HMOs than the people it elects would you care to comment on my main analysis that the poll actually disproves one of the central arguments against the movies premise?

Huh? The movie’s premise is that Cuba has better health care than America because they’re all “equal” in Cuba. Do we really need to disprove that insane idea? It is not even worth the time.

Huh? The movie’s premise is that Cuba has better health care than America because they’re all “equal” in Cuba. Do we really need to disprove that insane idea? It is not even worth the time.

This is an oversimplification and fails to counter anything I have claimed in my first post.

Try reading the first post (if you have the time) and then give it another try if you feel so inclined.

This is an oversimplification and fails to counter anything I have claimed in my first post.

If I wanted to counter anything in your first post, I would have referenced it. I didn’t, so I don’t know where you think you are going with this one.

Try reading the first post (if you have the time) and then give it another try if you feel so inclined.

I read it and I had nothing to say about it. My comment was referencing your second comment. I even quoted what was referenced, which should have made it clear. expat, try following the conversation sometime and give it another try if you feel so inclined.

Would you like to go around again?

This is fun and all but considering that the intent of your post was to show that america has more faith in HMOs than the people it elects would you care to comment on my main analysis that the poll actually disproves one of the central arguments against the movies premise?

The poll only “disproves” one of the central arguments against the movie’s premise if you believe that capability and confidence are the same thing.

I say that because in your first post (which you want me to reference for some reason), you said,

Most arguments against the ideas of SiCKO are that government is not as capable of handling health care as big business.
This poll clearly shows that although america is losing confidence in itself, it has more confidence in it’s biggest state run instutions than big business OR HMOs.

That Americans trust the big government institutions more than the big businesses doesn’t equate to big government being more capable of doing the job.

The only big government institutions the American people trust are the Military and Law enforcement. 

In both those cases they have specific jobs and do them fairly well.  That doesn’t mean that the army should take over our hospitals.  To make some kind of connection between the two is farcical.

Besides the armed forces do a great job but are fantastically expensive.  (worth it too). 

By the way, it appears the army and police are in the liberals way when they do their job.  The left doesn’t mind them when they do things that isn’t their job.

What’s going to happen to US industry when the global warming extremists like John McCain double the price of electricity?  I would think all these factories will close and set up in countries where they aren’t scared of technology.

The poll only “disproves” one of the central arguments against the movie’s premise if you believe that capability and confidence are the same thing.

Ahh the old semantic smokescreen!
Hold on.Let me get derailed into explaining the context.
If someone doesn’t think that something is capable then surely it could be said that they have no confidence in said thing.
At this point the governments capability with running health care is only confidence based because it has no previous track record.

That Americans trust the big government institutions more than the big businesses doesn’t equate to big government being more capable of doing the job.

Only if you believe that your government is not up to the task.
At this point, capability can only be determined by the performance of the government in other equally complicated (military and to a lesser extent police) endeavors.
I would say that the poll shows quite clearly that most people think the government is more capable of complex endeavors than big business.
So.....why not health care?

Would you like to go around again?

No. One exaggeration and a smokescreen are enough for me today!

The only big government institutions the American people trust are the Military and Law enforcement.

In both those cases they have specific jobs and do them fairly well.  That doesn’t mean that the army should take over our hospitals.  To make some kind of connection between the two is farcical.

Why must everything be exaggerated?

expat - Ahh the old semantic smokescreen!

No, it’s not a “semantic smokescreen”. It is noticing and then pointing out your egregious misuse of the language. The “smokescreen” here is yours. Furthermore, calling it a “semantic smokescreen” doesn’t even make sense considering that confidence and capability aren’t even close to being related in meaning.

Hold on.Let me get derailed into explaining the context.
If someone doesn’t think that something is capable then surely it could be said that they have no confidence in said thing.

You failed to explain the “context”. And still, you continue to equate confidence with performance.

At this point the governments capability with running health care is only confidence based because it has no previous track record.

This is only your assertion. The poll above shows a 14% approval rating for Congress. How this translates into “confidence based” is beyond me.

Only if you believe that your government is not up to the task.

You’re obfuscating. Once again, confidence doesn’t equate to performance and a job well done. That says nothing of whether or not one believes the government would do a good job.

At this point, capability can only be determined by the performance of the government in other equally complicated (military and to a lesser extent police) endeavors.

How about Medicare? Let’s stick to like subjects.

I would say that the poll shows quite clearly that most people think the government is more capable of complex endeavors than big business.

So what. It means nothing as to whether or not the government would do the job better than “big business”.

So.....why not health care?

Because the government isn’t good at helping people. Look at the “New Deal” and “Great Society” track record. Take a trip to your local big city inner city. Notice the abject poverty and hopelessness? Guess who is paying for it? Government! It is their “Great Society”. You want this for health care?

No. One exaggeration and a smokescreen are enough for me today!

You speak only of yourself. Your twisting of the language was the exaggeration and smokescreen. Your tying in two unrelated things (capable and confidence) is a smokescreen.

No one else made that connection so why are you?

YOU made the connection. This is getting pretty sad that we have to remind you of the things you have said. Remember saying this? -

At this point, capability can only be determined by the performance of the government in other equally complicated (military and to a lesser extent police) endeavors.

To repeat what The Whistler said, “That doesn’t mean that the army should take over our hospitals.  To make some kind of connection between the two is farcical.”

Why must everything be exaggerated?

Indeed. Stop making the exaggerations expat.

expat - I guess I should know better than to argue with someone who appropriates the language to their own ends. If we can’t even agree on commonly understood definitions, then we are at an impasse (you can look that one up).

I’ll let you have the final word. No doubt you’ll make up your own definitions during your final word. After all, the entirety of your position rests on your personalized definitions and your responses are no different. As such, your responses become meaningless since the meanings of the words are your own. And what’s the point of responding to your meaningless comments?

Hooray for captain grammar! You just keep analysing the words and their meanings until they are meaningless.
I’ll continue to hammer away at the idea that the government is not up to the task of health care ok?

Heh. Taking words at their meanings gets me the title of “captain grammer”. That says a lot about the person giving me that title.

Makes you wonder if the fire departments were even mentioned in the poll.

Fire departments aren’t “big govt”, they are local govt, and sometimes volunteer.  Off-topic.

"Give the lefties a pile of money, and they’ll spend it buying votes.” - Rush Limbaugh on the “bailout”.

I would have to say that this movie is very selfish because Michael Moore only targets his beleafs and nobody elses.  You never see anyone bashing socialized medicine.  So where is the real truth.  Do you really think that this form of medican would work in this country as big as this country is