Say Anything Blog

this might be a shocker for you r108, but this country is not populated entirely by new-age christians like yourself. there are sikhs, muslims, hindus, buddhists, jews, zoroasters, rastas, and many other religions that live here. imagine if someone donated a shit ton of dredels. it would be foolish to send them to christian families wouldn’t it? imagine also if someone donated a bunch of shiva statues or buddha statues. that would also be foolish to send to a meltingpot of different families would it not? how about framed pictures of haile selassie? that would also be foolish right?

Yun Chu said, “You must strictly not express in words what is very significant. Both dragon and snake are killed in one blow.”

This line sums it up pretty well:

“We can’t go out and give a Muslim child a Jesus doll. It’d be like giving a boy a makeup kit.”

How dare we take into consideration who it is we’re actually giving these gifts too!?!

There is no war on Christmas. As a self proclaimed Christianity-hating, Secular Progressive, I have no problem celebrating Christmas. It hasn’t been about Jesus for a very long time now; it’s about Santa Claus and presents. Secular Progressives have already successfully stolen Christmas from the Christians, just as the Christians stole it from the Pagans before them.

progressive? i’m sorry about that chad. have you had your head checked? i’m all about christian bashing, but ‘progressive’? c’mon. that’s just what the tart L.L.Bean wearing kooks that move to where I live from the city call themselves when they try to fuck with our rural politics. those people don’t like guns either. in short, they suck.

Yun Chu said, “You must strictly not express in words what is very significant. Both dragon and snake are killed in one blow.”

...just as the Christians stole it from the Pagans before them.

The only similarity between Saturnalia and Christmas is the time of year.
BTW, both you “progressives”, with your hatred of Christianity, illustrate the theme of this post quite well.  Thank you both!

Hope and change, in a free world, are the private possessions of motivated individuals.

It looks like consumerism started this war on Christmas. In a battle over profits, religion loses.

The spokesman said it was about “political correctness”.  BTW, “consumerism” is a leftie myth, designed to smear the prosperity of our free enterprise system.

Hope and change, in a free world, are the private possessions of motivated individuals.

Okay, looks like free enterprise started the War on Christmas. I love the synonym game!

The spokesman said it was about “political correctness”, which is the opposite, not only of free speech, but of free enterprise. Work on those reading comprehension skills, Dave.
“Free enterprise” is not a synonym for “political correctness”.  Duh

Hope and change, in a free world, are the private possessions of motivated individuals.

So he decided he wanted to purposefully lose money--and only lose money--here? That’s really strange!

I wonder if I pick-up and move to a Muslim country, if I can make them stop all public references and displays of their religion because I’m not Muslim and it “offends” me?

Christianity sure has come a long way. 100 years ago, you’d think that not selling Jesus dolls would put you on the side of the religious folk.

I wonder if I pick-up and move to a Muslim country, if I can make them stop all public references and displays of their religion because I’m not Muslim and it “offends” me?

That’s a very good point. Religion in government hasn’t worked very well for them at all, so we’d better do away with any signs of it here immediately.

Christianity sure has come a long way. 100 years ago, you’d think that not selling Jesus dolls would put you on the side of the religious folk.

Some people here can’t seem to see the fundamental contradiction between Christianity and free enterprise. Of course, that is, until American style protestantism hit the market place. Viva free enterprise!

Some people here can’t seem to see the fundamental contradiction between Christianity and free enterprise.

Right, now you’re telling us that Jesus Christ would have been at home in the Soviet Union.

What’s going to happen to US industry when the global warming extremists like John McCain double the price of electricity?  I would think all these factories will close and set up in countries where they aren’t scared of technology.

Some people here can’t seem to see the fundamental contradiction between Christianity and free enterprise. Of course, that is, until American style protestantism hit the market place. Viva free enterprise!

That’s right; Protestant Christianity, with it’s lack of centralization and individual salvation, fits right into the free enterprise system.  Good insight.
One small consideration: it started with Martin Luther in Germany.
The anti-Christianists try to lump all Christians together, which is stupid.  Like all bigots, they have no nuance.

Hope and change, in a free world, are the private possessions of motivated individuals.

Nuanced stupidity is still stupidity.

Anti-Christian bigots are stupid.

Hope and change, in a free world, are the private possessions of motivated individuals.

Conservatives seem to lack a sense of humor. Some here wonder why Republicans are the only ones laughed at in films. Its because they’re so damn serious all the time.But no, seriously, as an anthropologist (btw did I mention that I study Computer Science and Anthropology?), I view American protestantism, like most superstructural phenomena, as expressions of underlying infrastructural organization. Thus, it is no surprise that what you call the system of free enterprise should become bound up into religion. Indeed, it takes an powerful institutions like the Roman Catholic Church to maintain older modes of religion. Roman Catholicism, in its various expressions, reflects its history of development in feudal Europe. So, I am glad that you see the relationship between American Protestantism and our culture of individualism and free enterprise. But, I do not think that it is healthy relationship. It caters to the same cravings that lead us to watch television programs...entertain us please! I much prefer the anachronisms of Roman Catholicism.

Anti-logic/sciencebigots are stupid.

Fixed.

I much prefer the anachronisms of Roman Catholicism.

In our free enterprise society with its individual independence, you are free to do that; you just aren’t free to impose it on the rest of us.

BTW, in a Roman Catholic society, how free would you be to study Computer Science and Anthropology?  The old Christianity was monarchial in structure, with the attendant problems.  There is a reason so few monarchies have survived into the 21st Century.  Even the modern equivalent, Marxism, isn’t doing all that well, either.

Hope and change, in a free world, are the private possessions of motivated individuals.

Fortunately, Chad, you are neither logical nor scientific.  You just shoot off your hateful mouth.

Hope and change, in a free world, are the private possessions of motivated individuals.

Getting back to the heart of the post, I always thought that Toys for Tots was a great charity.

I don’t know if I will support them this year.

What’s going to happen to US industry when the global warming extremists like John McCain double the price of electricity?  I would think all these factories will close and set up in countries where they aren’t scared of technology.

Yes, I prefer the ability to freely choose my religion. No, I wouldn’t prefer to live in a monarchy. And no, I don’t admire the history of the Catholic Church, but its present manisfestation if much more benign. If I were to become Christian, I’d either become a Quaker or a Roman Catholic. My wife’s Roman Catholic, so the latter would be easier.

No, I don’t have a problem with choice. I have a problem with the direction of American protestantism has taken as a whole, and its embrace of a kind of market ethics spectacular. Not to mention the quasi-Muslim terrorist Jesus school fanatics. That’s all we need: Christian suicide bombers too.

Just one question; Just how does the celebration of Christmas hurt anyone?

Election ‘08 - We Are So Screwed

supergreen: You attempt to make an equivalence between Christians and Islamics, but there is no such equivalence.  You are projecting your own anti-Christian bigotry on the people you hate.  Always a mistake.

Hope and change, in a free world, are the private possessions of motivated individuals.

Toys for Tots, which is run by the Marine Corps Reserves, already bans toy guns and other gifts it believes promote violence.

Anti-Christian bigots are stupid.

The same anti-christians are often the ones who justify and defend the islamists.

Election ‘08 - We Are So Screwed

You attempt to make an equivalence between Christians and Islamics, but there is no such equivalence.

I think there’s a few more similarities than you would like to admit.

I wonder if I pick-up and move to a Muslim country, if I can make them stop all public references and displays of their religion because I’m not Muslim and it “offends” me?

Ahhh. I thought the US was not a religious state?

Yun Chu said, “You must strictly not express in words what is very significant. Both dragon and snake are killed in one blow.”

I think there’s a few more similarities than you would like to admit.

Name them, and their actual significance in terms of social and political impact; also, compare current death tolls in the 21st century.

Ahhh. I thought the US was not a religious state?

It’s not a theocracy, and we don’t get our panties in a bunch and start slaughtering people because of a few cartoons.

Hope and change, in a free world, are the private possessions of motivated individuals.

-Islam and Christianity both believe Jesus was a prophet of God. They differ on whether he was the son of God though. Islam believes he was created like Adam… out of dust or whatever. Islam also thinks he was taken back by God instead of crucified.
-They both believe in the Garden of Eden and Adam and Eve and all that.
-They both believe in salvation and heaven. One by following Jesus and one by following Allah.
...just to name a few…
...and an interesting difference…
-Islam thinks the Genesis account is not literal, rather that the earth took billions of years to create. Islam believes in the big bang… claiming it involved some kind of gas. God created living things from water according to Islam. Christians believe Genesis literally.

Yun Chu said, “You must strictly not express in words what is very significant. Both dragon and snake are killed in one blow.”

Some people here can’t seem to see the fundamental contradiction between Christianity and free enterprise. Of course, that is, until American style protestantism hit the market place. Viva free enterprise!

Actually, with this observation SG makes a very shrewd and insightful point.  Unfortunately, his self-righteous bigotry and sarcasm keep him from understanding its true significance.

In a sense, free-market capitalism and Christianity are quite nearly mutually exclusive.  At their most basic levels, one focuses on the primacy of self, while the other focuses on the importance of sacrifice.  Greed versus altruism, if you will.

Those on the left, who have difficulty hiding their disdain for both Capitalism and Christianity, fail to recognize that throughout our history, it has been the combination of the two that has kept us strong and made us Superpower that we are today.  The rapacious ravages of free-market capitalism have been kept in check by the obligatory goodness and sacrifice of our Judeo-Christian ethic.  And what the effete liberals regard as the high and mighty, prim and proper constraints of Christianity, the fire and brimstone of Sunday sermons, are conveniently overlooked in the hustle and bustle of Monday through Friday commerce.  The two mainstream faiths of America have balanced each other and kept each other in check, yet both have, together, served us well.

Over the generations, America’s captains of industry, our so-called “robber barons” have built schools, hospital, universities, libraries, and parks and funded billions and billions of dollars worth of civic enterprises of one sort or another.  Hamilton, Chase, Carnegie, Ford, Vanderbilt, Rockerfeller, Whitney, Guggenheim, Heinz, Milken, our history is littered with the names of those who have done well for themselves and their families through our much-maligned capitalist system, and then, inspired by the same Judeo-Christian ethos that is under attack today from the left, given back to that same society from which they rose.

It is the balance between the two, and the competition as well, that has made us great.  And it is most certainly NOT the federal government.  Those who would disparage either free-market capitalism or our judeo-christian heritage, do so to the peril of us all.

Bat: Yeah, boyyyy!

Hope and change, in a free world, are the private possessions of motivated individuals.

I think that the organization that is collecting the toys should have the final say on what they will take. Since they already have restrictions, they are taking control of what they want to give out for toys.  Perhaps we should notify the NRA of their failure to take toy guns?

R108,

Thanks!  I’ve waited months for the right chance to say that.

The Marine Corps Reserves are correct

talking Jesus dolls

Wrong on every level

You shall not make for yourself an idol

Woof: Due to our religious freedom(guaranteed in the Constitution), there is nothing wrong with talking Jesus dolls, or any other kind.  I think Toys for Tots doesn’t force anything on anyone, so they have a choice.

Hope and change, in a free world, are the private possessions of motivated individuals.

Snarky: Thanks for the reasoned response; I have a few objections and additions, so here goes:

-Islam and Christianity both believe Jesus was a prophet of God.

In general, you err when you refer to Christians as if they are a monolithic group.  That being said, not all Christians regard Jesus as a Prophet, but do assert His Divinity.  John the Baptist was the Prophet of Jesus.

They differ on whether he was the son of God though. Islam believes he was created like Adam… out of dust or whatever. Islam also thinks he was taken back by God instead of crucified.
-They both believe in the Garden of Eden and Adam and Eve and all that.
-They both believe in salvation and heaven. One by following Jesus and one by following Allah.

Not exactly equivalent; I’m not an expert on Islam, but one thing distinguishes Christianity from other religions is individual salvation, determined by the individual’s relationship with God.  With Islam, it’s more a matter of deeds, like killing Infidels, for instance.  Jesus doesn’t give any points for that.

...just to name a few…
...and an interesting difference…
-Islam thinks the Genesis account is not literal, rather that the earth took billions of years to create. Islam believes in the big bang… claiming it involved some kind of gas. God created living things from water according to Islam. Christians believe Genesis literally.

Once again, not all Christians; as a matter of fact, it’s an individual matter with most Protestants.  Since Protestants have no central authority(no Pope) there is allowance for variation here.  Some congregations may emphawsize “creationism”, but they are in a minority.  The MSM likes to exaggerate that aspect, of course, in their zeal to smear Christians.

Hope and change, in a free world, are the private possessions of motivated individuals.

Snarky: Except for some Catholics centuries ago, violence is not generally a part of Christianity, and it has always been deranged individuals, not the teachings of Christ, that have practiced it.  Not so with Islam.  As I write this, someone is being killed by Islamics for some religious reason or other, directly related to the teachings of Islam.  Not so Christianity(and I mean all of Christianity).  When it comes to religious violence, there is no comparison.

Hope and change, in a free world, are the private possessions of motivated individuals.

..protestant witch hunts anyone?

I think Toys for Tots doesn’t force anything on anyone, so they have a choice.

They don’t force any particular toy on anyone.  As I said, they have a choice; the clients, that is.  But then, you already knew that, and were just being willfully obtuse.

Hope and change, in a free world, are the private possessions of motivated individuals.

Christianity sure has come a long way. 100 years ago, you’d think that not selling Jesus dolls would put you on the side of the religious folk.

As much as I hate to say it, I agree with Dave_Comet here! (Maybe when he speaks on a topic with which he is familiar [toys], he speaks with authority!)

I would think the “Jesus” dolls would have an equal chance of offending Christians, who might take that “graven image” thing literally!

Therefore, if it is really a “war on Christianity”, I would say it is part of the war on orthodox Christianity, but not the garden variety practiced by many here in the States.

Trolls. It’s what’s for breakfast!
And then I eat their lunch.

S:Islam and Christianity both believe Jesus was a prophet of God.
R:In general, you err when you refer to Christians as if they are a monolithic group.  That being said, not all Christians regard Jesus as a Prophet, but do assert His Divinity.  John the Baptist was the Prophet of Jesus.

Monolitic? I referred to them as monolithic? According to Christians, Jesus was a prophet (profit?) and the son of God. Christo = The annoited one. You believe in buddhist metaphysics r108. I am merely referring to the bible and not all the various current hybridizations of Christianity and Buddhism, Science, or something else. I never said J the B wasn’t a prophet. Jesus is a prophet of Yahweh, J the B is a prophet a prophet of Jesus. Great.
S:They differ on whether he was the son of God though. Islam believes he was created like Adam… out of dust or whatever. Islam also thinks he was taken back by God instead of crucified. They both believe in the Garden of Eden and Adam and Eve and all that.
They both believe in salvation and heaven. One by following Jesus and one by following Allah.

Not exactly equivalent; I’m not an expert on Islam, but one thing distinguishes Christianity from other religions is individual salvation, determined by the individual’s relationship with God.  With Islam, it’s more a matter of deeds, like killing Infidels, for instance.  Jesus doesn’t give any points for that.

Its true. I think in Islam you can also get into heaven if you are killed in certain ways… I.E. by an infidel. I see the strict religious obligations to fight in Islam as a built in survival mechanisms. Basicly to prevent the religion from disappearing.

S:Islam thinks the Genesis account is not literal, rather that the earth took billions of years to create. Islam believes in the big bang… claiming it involved some kind of gas. God created living things from water according to Islam. Christians believe Genesis literally.
R:Once again, not all Christians; as a matter of fact, it’s an individual matter with most Protestants.  Since Protestants have no central authority(no Pope) there is allowance for variation here.  Some congregations may emphasize “creationism”, but they are in a minority.  The MSM likes to exaggerate that aspect, of course, in their zeal to smear Christians.

I don’t know what the MSM has to do with anything here, but many Christians don’t believe in a 4 billion year old earth and the big bang. If they do, then they are closer to Islam than the more strict interpreting Christians.

R:Except for some Catholics centuries ago, violence is not generally a part of Christianity, and it has always been deranged individuals, not the teachings of Christ, that have practiced it.  Not so with Islam.  As I write this, someone is being killed by Islamics for some religious reason or other, directly related to the teachings of Islam.  Not so Christianity(and I mean all of Christianity).  When it comes to religious violence, there is no comparison.

I agree. Christ doesn’t advocate violence. His was willing to die for other’s evil, simply praying for them. Very compassionate. Reminds me of the Tibetans who remained passive and prayed for the Chinese as they were forcibly occupied by China.
We can’t forget that the old testament is included in the Bible and it contains many, many overt justifications of race based violence and genocide. Islam is going through a period of violence. So have the Christians. They probably will again. Islam, as Pilgrim pointed out the other day, had a period of progressive peace and science and math when we (Europeans) were, to quote monty python, “Bringing out the dead.” and crusading.
Another interesting difference between the religions is their past and the influences built in. Christianity ‘borrows’ alot more from the Phoenician/Canaan worship of the planet Saturn while Islam borrows more from the ancient worship of Venus.

Yun Chu said, “You must strictly not express in words what is very significant. Both dragon and snake are killed in one blow.”

Islam is going through a period of violence. So have the Christians. They probably will again. Islam, as Pilgrim pointed out the other day, had a period of progressive peace and science and math…

Sparkie,

Your condescending and cavalier overview of history betrays your anti-Christian bias.  You have been arguing against Christians and Christianity from the beginning, and your indifferent attempts at justification only emphasize the point.

As for that “period of progressive peace,” that occurred only WITHIN the borders of the Islamist empire.  The Battle of Vienna took place in 1683.  There has never been a time when Islam was not an aggressively acquisitive, brutally violent and genocidal ideology.  To be sure not all Muslims violent Islamists.  But there is absolutely no reason to think that those who aren’t have had, or will ever have, any sort of moderating influence on those who are.

Bat. First, that was a mix of history and opinion. I’m not trying to be condescending or cavalier. I don’t believe in Christianity and I think its ‘quaint’, but I still think lots of the Christian morals that are built into our justice system are very important. Sometimes there isn’t necessarily a grounding justification for certain moral rights or wrongs… I think the grounding in God that’s built into our justice system is very important and very good. I have alot of respect for people who can have faith against all other evidence. It shows a certain strength since, when one gets down to it, lots of things are arbitrary… in my mind. Furthermore I think Christianity is a good social system. It encourages community and also compassion and welfare… as you pointed out.
I just don’t buy the basic beliefs. They seem farfetched. I also don’t approve of the motovators… fear, thinking one is inherently evil, et all… I approve of intellectual motovators… I like buddhism in this way. It preys on the thinkers you know? It gains its power through contemplation, not through the discouragement of contemplation.

Yun Chu said, “You must strictly not express in words what is very significant. Both dragon and snake are killed in one blow.”

Snarkie: Once again, when you attempt to generalize about “Christianity”, you err.  It is also a mistake on your part(and your “interpretation") that Christ teaches that “all of us are inherently evil”.  This is just false.  Original Sin does not hold that we are all evil at all, only that we all have sinned.  As far as fear being a motivator, that applies to the Roman Catholics, but most Protestants don’t use it.
Generally speaking, you make your anti-Christian judgements on the basis of mistaken perception founded on ignorance.  God bless you.

Hope and change, in a free world, are the private possessions of motivated individuals.

This just in:  Since this happened in my part of the world, somewhere near me(Ventura, CA), I heard on my regional news tonight that TFT has changed their minds and will offer the Jesus dolls.  Nice to see public opinion having an effect…

Hope and change, in a free world, are the private possessions of motivated individuals.

Bah! Humbug! : )

Trolls. It’s what’s for breakfast!
And then I eat their lunch.