Say Anything Blog

We are dealing with this same issue on another blog right now.

The problem is what constitutes torture?

There are those segments of our society that feel confinement alone is torture.

“To love is not to stare steadfast at one another...it is to look forward, in the same direction.”
Saint-Exupéry

It is about time American Christians started acting like actual Christians.

There are those segments of our society that feel confinement alone is torture.

There is plenty of evidence that isolation for extended periods of time (sensory deprivation) drives people insane.  That is also torture.

So, let’s do away with prisons and put the dregs of our society up at the Holiday Inn?

“To love is not to stare steadfast at one another...it is to look forward, in the same direction.”
Saint-Exupéry

So, let’s do away with prisons and put the dregs of our society up at the Holiday Inn?

Your hyperbole is ridiculous.  There are ways of incarcerating people without torturing them.

Your hyperbole is ridiculous.  There are ways of incarcerating people without torturing them.

Now don’t go on the attack. Explain yourself. How would you treat these prisoners?

“To love is not to stare steadfast at one another...it is to look forward, in the same direction.”
Saint-Exupéry

Here’s what bothers me about that argument.

I had a mother who was seriously ill before she died. The pain she went through was far greater than anything the prisoners at Guantanamo Bay experienced.

She was a good Christian woman who never did anyone harm. These prisoners at GB have expressed the desire to behead everyone who doesn’t conform to their way of life; they have committed unimaginable and barbaric war crimes.  They blow up innocent civilians and children and still believe they will go to a greater afterlife.

Yet when faced with the prospect of drowning, they give away the number, location and secrets of their fellow swine.

I know a Christian can take a lofty view and forgive. I can’t. There’s no balance

“To love is not to stare steadfast at one another...it is to look forward, in the same direction.”
Saint-Exupéry

I know a Christian can take a lofty view and forgive. I can’t. There’s no balance

Read the book of Job and complain to God. 

I’m sorry that your mother had pain.  My father is currently dying of Alzheimers and it sucks. 

But your mothers pain is no excuse to compromise the principles of this country.

Now don’t go on the attack. Explain yourself. How would you treat these prisoners?

I would treat them in accordance with the Geneva Conventions.

Because they would not do the same to us makes no difference to me.  It is not about them, it is about us.

It’s unfortunate you chose this:

Read the book of Job and complain to God.

I’ve given up on your ability to debate sanely. Your preference in choosing to let others do your thinking for you has left you without the skill necessary to make sound judgment.

“To love is not to stare steadfast at one another...it is to look forward, in the same direction.”
Saint-Exupéry

Your preference in choosing to let others do your thinking for you has left you without the skill necessary to make sound judgment.

First you accuse me of not touting the standard lefty view and than you say I am letting others do my thinking.  Which is it? 

You have stuck to the conservative party line without any explanation much more than I have stuck to the liberal party line. 

I have tried to explain why I believe torture is wrong.  You have basically used the argument of fairness to approve of torture.

It’s only fair that we torture them.  God would like it.

Lestat,

While Sally may have jumped a bit off the deep end, let’s not pretend your position is the paragon of reason. Most evidence that solitary confinement is harmful goes to periods of a month or more. We don’t do that to anyone in confinement. Asking someone not to torture is meaningless, unless you define torture.

You haven’t done that.

For the first time in my adult life, I am ashamed of my country.

Asking someone not to torture is meaningless, unless you define torture.
You haven’t done that.

You act as if there is not a standard definition of torture.  Nobody thought that until this barbaric administration.  I’m willing to use the definition given in the United Nations Convention on Torture”

“any act by which severe pain or suffering, whether physical or mental, is intentionally inflicted on a person for such purposes as obtaining from him or a third person information or a confession, punishing him for an act he or a third person has committed or is suspected of having committed, or intimidating or coercing him or a third person, or for any reason based on discrimination of any kind, when such pain or suffering is inflicted by or at the instigation of or with the consent or acquiescence of a public official or other person acting in an official capacity. It does not include pain or suffering arising only from, inherent in or incidental to lawful sanctions”

Most evidence that solitary confinement is harmful goes to periods of a month or more. We don’t do that to anyone in confinement.

We did it to Jose Padilla, a US Citizen.

While Sally may have jumped a bit off the deep end,

WHAT??

I’m outta here. Goodnight.

“To love is not to stare steadfast at one another...it is to look forward, in the same direction.”
Saint-Exupéry

Prisoners are routinely held in solitary confinement for months at a time.

lestupid, when non-human such as yourself chose to murder children and women you surrender any claim to “human rights”. Period. And has been explained to you repeatedly, terrorists are specifically excluded, SPECIFICALLY EXCLUDED, from all protection under any articles of the Geneva Accords. So, you just keep defending your heroes, the child murdering animals you love so dearly. Anyone, ANYONE, who defends terrorists deserves the same agonizingly slow and excruciatingly painful death that terrorists have earned.

Una Salus Victus Nullam Sperare Salutem

Oh, and as for these “christians”, they have accepted dhimmitude and have repeatedly called for all people to submit to Islam and surrender their God given rights and freedom. How very unChristian of them.

Una Salus Victus Nullam Sperare Salutem

How very unChristian of them.

Because there is nothing Jesus liked better than a good torture.

Oh, thats right! Jesus commanded all men to submit to Islam and live as slaves of child murdering animals. You fake assed christians always breakout WWJD whenever you want to defend child murdering terrorists. He must be so proud!

Una Salus Victus Nullam Sperare Salutem

You act as if there is not a standard definition of torture.  Nobody thought that until this barbaric administration.  I’m willing to use the definition given in the United Nations Convention on Torture”

This barbaric administration...YAWN. Deliberately inflammatory.

“any act by which severe pain or suffering, whether physical or mental, is intentionally inflicted on a person…

This is where we differ. Multiple leftist groups stage waterboarding with their members using the same people over and over and over again. Often times the same people will volunteer to be waterboarded. We waterboard our own soldiers to get them used to harsh interrogation techniques (we don’t rip out fingernails or burn them), showing that the army seems to place it on a level of being exposed to tear gas (also not torture). They have also performed it on countless reporters.

The above facts show that waterboarding doesn’t cause severe mental or physical harm, as otherwise we wouldn’t do it to our own people, no one would volunteer to do it (especially not more than once), and the military wouldn’t offer to do it to civilians (who were Curious).

All of this ignores the fact that the terrorists aren’t covered by Geneva. Geneva isn’t just a blank check that you can write your name in no matter what. Not only is Geneva rights...but it’s rules too. If you refuse to follow the rules of Geneva, you are not afforded it’s privledges. This is not up for debate. It’s much like an employee complaining that he didn’t get his last paycheck....when he hadn’t showed up at work for the past month. Doesn’t work that way.

We did it to Jose Padilla, a US Citizen.

Jose Padilla also had regular contact with interrogators, and, later, an attorney. The accounts gave by both sides indicate that he was in constant contact with people outside the cell. Since he routinely talked with people it cannot be argued that he was in “sensory deprevation”.

WHAT??

I’m outta here. Goodnight.

Sorry, Sally, but your entire rational seems to be exactly what Lestat said “Life wasn’t fair, so they should suffer.” I agree with you on waterboarding, but not your reasoning behind it. Sorry, I calls them likes I sees them.....s.

For the first time in my adult life, I am ashamed of my country.

Sorry, Sally, but your entire rational seems to be exactly what Lestat said “Life wasn’t fair, so they should suffer.

Again. WHAT??

Kenny, here’s what is not fair. Comparing me in anyway with lestat.

Beside that wasn’t even close to my point.

Why the hell would I give a rats ass about some terrorist rights, when there are greater priorities to be found.

Are you now in the mind-reading mode like lestat?

“To love is not to stare steadfast at one another...it is to look forward, in the same direction.”
Saint-Exupéry

How he must have looked forward to those.

Jose Padilla also had regular contact with interrogators,

Nice to see you ,
we gonna do stress
positions again?

Jose Padilla also had regular contact with interrogators, and, later, an attorney. The accounts gave by both sides indicate that he was in constant contact with people outside the cell. Since he routinely talked with people it cannot be argued that he was in “sensory deprevation”.

Read the transcripts of his trial or the reports of the psychiatrists who interviewed him.  We drove him insane.  His attorney was allowed to see him after he had been confined for over a year.  That is not routine.

Kenny, here’s what is not fair. Comparing me in anyway with lestat.

I agree.  Don’t compare me with her.  It insults me that you would compare me with somebody who have obviously not considered the issue very carefully.

Jose Padilla self confessed and thoroughly convicted terrorist. Of course you defend him. He, like you, hates America. He, like you, hates Jesus. He, like you, advocates murdering children and women. Of course you defend him.

Una Salus Victus Nullam Sperare Salutem

this barbaric administration.  I’m willing to use the definition given in the United Nations Convention on Torture”

Whoa, hold the freaking horses, a “barbaric administration?” How about giving us actual cases wherein the Administration, authorized any kind of torture. If I am not mistaken, only three cases have involved waterboarding and deaths or serious injuries were zero.

You are willing to use the United Nation’s definition? This wholly feckless and almost wholly American hating, pro-socialist, dictator supporting organization, with countries like Lybia on their human rights commission gets your nod for credibility? Wow!

It is wholly out of line to bring Jesus into this discussion. If you want to criticize the actions of Christians, fine. But Jesus does not support human folly, Left or Right.

No matter the age or state of health, for a military man it is always glorious to tilt at windmills, rescue a fair Dulcinea and be a gallant knight in armor in a glorious cause.

If you want to criticize the actions of Christians, fine. But Jesus does not support human folly, Left or Right.

Todd: Don’t be an ass! Whoops, too late, you already are!

No matter the age or state of health, for a military man it is always glorious to tilt at windmills, rescue a fair Dulcinea and be a gallant knight in armor in a glorious cause.

Todd, that is a very close-minded statement.  Look into it, and you’ll find much more.

Being religious doesn’t mean you’re apart of the republican party, and the republican party isn’t always religious.