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Sunday, July 06, 2008

This Just In: More Proof of Saddam’s Nuke Program

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Disconfirmations Disconfirmed: Saddam Had Nuke Program

By Randall Hoven

The media have been telling us for years that Saddam had no WMD, so “Bush’s War”: was based on a “lie.” And those who believed Saddam did have WMD or WMD programs were delusional or worse.

But today, on July 6, 2008, the Associated Press reports that

* Saddam Hussein had a nuclear program
* At the Tuwaitha nuclear complex just south of Baghdad
* Which included 550 metric tons (over 1.2 million pounds) of “yellowcake”, or concentrated uranium
* And multiple devices that could be used in a nuclear weapon. 

The AP does not say alleged nuclear program.  It does not add “according to military experts.” It simply says “Saddam Hussein’s nuclear program.”

That’s pretty big news, isn’t it?

For about five years now, those of us who thought Saddam Hussein probably had at least WMD programs, if not WMD themselves, have been called not only wrong, but illogical and insane.

One example was an article by Sharon Begley in the Wall Street Journal titled People Believe a ‘Fact’ That Fits Their Views Even if It’s Clearly False .  (Her article series is called, without irony, the “Science Journal”.) Ms. Begley reported that “six months after the invasion, one-third of Americans believed WMDs had been found, even though every such tentative claim was discomfirmed [sic].” She cited psychologists to explain this strange behavior.  They used terms like “world views” and “mental models.”

Jim Lobe at CommonDreams.org (Breaking News & Views for the Progressive Community) reported that “Three out of four self-described supporters of President George W. Bush still believe that pre-war Iraq had weapons of mass destruction (WMD) or active programs to produce them.” He went on to quote the director of the polling company as saying

“To support the president and to accept that he took the U.S. to war based on mistaken assumptions likely creates substantial cognitive dissonance and leads Bush supporters to suppress awareness of unsettling information about pre-war Iraq.”

These findings on people’s beliefs were based on a survey that asked people if they believed Saddam had WMD or WMD programs .  Apparently, Sharon Begley, Jim Lobe and a whole lot of other people not only believed Saddam had no WMD programs, but that anyone who did believe such a thing was clearly illogical or insane.  In fact, the only interesting question to them was what is wrong with our minds.

[...]

Fast forward to today.  Now we hear from the Associated Press that The last major remnant of Saddam Hussein’s nuclear program—a huge stockpile of concentrated natural uranium—reached a Canadian port.” That last “remnant” was 550 metric tons of yellowcake uranium.  That is over 1.2 million pounds of yellowcake!  Also, the military had previously withdrawn “four devices for controlled radiation exposure ... that could potentially be used in a weapon.” All this was located at “the former Tuwaitha nuclear complex about 12 miles south of Baghdad.”

The AP even reminds us that

“Accusations that Saddam had tried to purchase more yellowcake from the African nation of Niger—and an article by a former U.S. ambassador refuting the claims—led to a wide-ranging probe into Washington leaks that reached high into the Bush administration.”

By the way, is it illogical or insane to think that Saddam could not possibly obtain yellowcake, and did not even try to, because one former ambassador went to one country in Africa and said he couldn’t find it there?  What about after they found over a million pounds of it just south of Baghdad?  Is it now considered reality-based to think Saddam “sought” yellowcake, just as President Bush said in his 2003 State of the Union address ?

[...]

If you wait long enough, the facts emerge, and the leftie liars are exposed.
Good deal for America.

Comments

Avatar for Lestat

Dude, the existence of this was not a secret.  It is from pre 1991 gulf war.

From the AP article

Later, UN inspectors documented and safeguarded the yellowcake, which had been stored in ageing drums since before the 1991 Gulf War.

Don’t want to let a few facts get in the way of good propaganda.

Lestat on July 6, 2008 at 06:09 pm

Lestat: Read the entire article; the existence of the nuke program, not just the mountain of yellowcake, is in bold letters, to make it easier for people like you to notice.

“The last major remnant of Saddam Hussein’s nuclear program—

What part of “Saddam’s nuclear program” don’t you understand?
Saddam posed a nuclear threat, which is what the President said.


Media uncovers more Palin stories in one weekend than Obama stories in two years. Still no bias detected

Obama: more experienced than Bristol Palin

robert108 on July 6, 2008 at 07:05 pm

What part of “Saddam’s nuclear program” don’t you understand?
Saddam posed a nuclear threat, which is what the President said.
robert108 on July 6, 2008 at 07:05 pm

The part where this was known to exist. The part that everybody knew about Iraq’s nuclear program prior to the first gulf war. The one that the Israelis bombed.

ellinas on July 6, 2008 at 07:33 pm
Avatar for Lestat

Dude, when did the UN weapons inspectors leave?  I believe it was before we invaded.  Therefore, if they knew about it, we knew about it.  This article is about the disposal of known contaminents.  Stuff that was left over since 1991.

You are incredibly ignorant about this.  What do you do in your spare time?  Just skim headlines without trying to gain any knowledge? 

It would do you credit if you did any research into what you post.

Lestat on July 6, 2008 at 07:54 pm

lestupid and overcompensating elinas the shy spin madly.

Iraq had no civil nuclear power plants in operation.  Yet they had 550 Metric Tons of low enriched Uranium, useful only in the manufacture of Nuclear Fuel or the manufacture of Highly Enriched Uranium for weapons use.  Nor is LEU without value on the international market (and Iraq was indeed hurting for hard currency despite the UN’s Oil for Palaces sham).

Physicians, heal thyselves.


Out Here
Rodney G. Graves

Ceterum censeo Parthia esse delendam
Latin: “Furthermore, Parthia (Persia aka modern day Iran) should be destroyed.”

Rodney Graves on July 6, 2008 at 08:05 pm
Avatar for Lestat

Iraq had no civil nuclear power plants in operation.  Yet they had 550 Metric Tons of low enriched Uranium, useful only in the manufacture of Nuclear Fuel or the manufacture of Highly Enriched Uranium for weapons use.

Dumbass, nobody doubts Iraq had a nuclear program prior to 1990.  The US probably helped fund it.  If you read the articles with any understanding whatsoever (I know it’s a stretch) you would realize that this stuff has been sitting since then and the UN weapons inspectors have known about it. 

There is no evidence of a nuclear program in Iraq since 1991.

Lestat on July 6, 2008 at 08:11 pm

they had 550 Metric Tons of low enriched Uranium, useful only in the manufacture of Nuclear Fuel

omg. was he going to…

power lightbulbs at night!

good effing thing we got him.


rasberry

Sparkie Arbuckle on July 6, 2008 at 08:14 pm

lestupid opines:

There is no evidence of a nuclear program in Iraq since 1991.

Equally there is no evidence that Hussein’s Iraq divested itself of the technologies, equipment, designs, and raw materials to resume their program of nuclear weapons development once the UN Kleptocrats sold him a clean bill of WMD health.

A quiescent program is not a former program, as the Iranians are currently demonstrating.


Out Here
Rodney G. Graves

Ceterum censeo Parthia esse delendam
Latin: “Furthermore, Parthia (Persia aka modern day Iran) should be destroyed.”

Rodney Graves on July 6, 2008 at 08:37 pm

sparkless-arse-fuckin-buckle thinks you can generate useful electrical power from yellow cake sans reactor.

omg. was he going to…

power lightbulbs at night!

good effing thing we got him.

If the stakes weren’t so high, it would be funny.  Instead it’s a valuable insight as to what passes for threat assessment amongst the jackass party set.


Out Here
Rodney G. Graves

Ceterum censeo Parthia esse delendam
Latin: “Furthermore, Parthia (Persia aka modern day Iran) should be destroyed.”

Rodney Graves on July 6, 2008 at 08:41 pm
Avatar for Lestat

Equally there is no evidence that Hussein’s Iraq divested itself of the technologies, equipment, designs, and raw materials to resume their program of nuclear weapons development once the UN Kleptocrats sold him a clean bill of WMD health.

The point is that this yellowcake that Robert is using to prove that Iraq had a nuclear program, was under UN control prior to our invasion.  It is a red herring.  Robert is using it as propaganda because he is too stupid to understand the AP article, apparently so are you.

Lestat on July 6, 2008 at 08:50 pm

There is no evidence of a nuclear program in Iraq since 1991.

Lestat,

That phrase, “no evidence”, is probably a bit of a stretch and surely far more definitive than the situation actually calls for.

However, there is no doubt that there was a very active nuclear weapons and ballistic missile program in the desert mountains of southern Libya, and every likelihood that said program was a joint Libyan/Iraqi/Egyptian program, underwritten by Saddam Hussein with OFF funds and employing several thousand Iraqi technicians.

It is also quite likely that the 400 tons of Niger yellowcake reported missing in the Senate Select Committee on Intelligence report actually wound up not in Iraq but in Libya instead.

Start your research here.


“Poverty of goods is easily cured; poverty of the mind is irreparable.”

Bat One on July 6, 2008 at 08:53 pm

There is no evidence of a nuclear program in Iraq since 1991.

He didn’t need another one; he already had one.  Duh.


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robert108 on July 6, 2008 at 08:55 pm

What happened to Sadam’s Nuclear program

* Removed all known weapon usable materials
* All known indigenous facilities capable of producing uranium compounds useful to a nuclear programme were destroyed during the Gulf War; IAEA inspected and completed the destruction of facilities; IAEA monitored the sites as part of their OMV activities.
* Took custody of all known imported compounds and indigenously produced uranium compounds

WOOF on July 6, 2008 at 09:01 pm

“He (Saddam Hussein) has not developed any significant capability with respect to weapons of mass destruction. He is unable to project conventional power against his neighbours.”

Colin Powell
February 24 2001

“This man poses a much graver threat than anybody could have possibly imagined.”

bush
9/26/02

“Saddam does not control the northern part of the country,” she said. “We are able to keep his arms from him. His military forces have not been rebuilt.”

Condoleezza Rice
April 2001

“The Iraqi regime is a threat of unique urgency.”

bush
10/2/02

“The threat posed by Iraq’s weapons of mass destruction will be removed.”

Rummy
3/25/03

“He (Saddam Hussein) has not developed any significant capability with respect to weapons of mass destruction. He is unable to project conventional power against his neighbours.”

Colin Powell
February 24 2001

C reported on his recent talks in Washington. There was a perceptible shift in attitude. Military action was now seen as inevitable. Bush wanted to remove Saddam, through military action, justified by the conjunction of terrorism and WMD. But the intelligence and facts were being fixed around the policy. The NSC had no patience with the UN route, and no enthusiasm for publishing material on the Iraqi regime’s record. There was little discussion in Washington of the aftermath after military action.

From the Downing Street minutes

“There’s a grave threat in Iraq. There just is.”

bush
10/2/02


“If a conservative is still a republican after the last 13 years, he is blind to the fact that his party of choice has failed him utterly.” – Realitybasedbob

realitybasedbob on July 6, 2008 at 09:01 pm

The one that the Israelis bombed.

But obviously did’t destroy.  Duh.


Media uncovers more Palin stories in one weekend than Obama stories in two years. Still no bias detected

Obama: more experienced than Bristol Palin

robert108 on July 6, 2008 at 09:06 pm

The point is that this yellowcake that Robert is using to prove that Iraq had a nuclear program…

You lie; I’m not “using it”, the AP is saying it.  I bolded it for you truth-challenged leftie liars.


Media uncovers more Palin stories in one weekend than Obama stories in two years. Still no bias detected

Obama: more experienced than Bristol Palin

robert108 on July 6, 2008 at 09:09 pm

Image and video hosting by TinyPic

I’m not “using it”,

I bolded it

“If a conservative is still a republican after the last 13 years, he is blind to the fact that his party of choice has failed him utterly.” – Realitybasedbob

realitybasedbob on July 6, 2008 at 09:13 pm

I see the deranged lefties are twisting and spinning on this one.

rbb: It was a mistype, since I do know how to spell, but I guess you need a crumb from the table every now and then.  Hope it helps you.


Media uncovers more Palin stories in one weekend than Obama stories in two years. Still no bias detected

Obama: more experienced than Bristol Palin

robert108 on July 6, 2008 at 09:32 pm

108, you “used it” by bolding it.


“If a conservative is still a republican after the last 13 years, he is blind to the fact that his party of choice has failed him utterly.” – Realitybasedbob

realitybasedbob on July 6, 2008 at 09:48 pm

rbb: I bolded the truth about Saddam’s nuke program, as reported by the AP.  Get over yourself.


Media uncovers more Palin stories in one weekend than Obama stories in two years. Still no bias detected

Obama: more experienced than Bristol Palin

robert108 on July 6, 2008 at 09:53 pm

You used it to back up your position.

108, you used it.

Stop lying.


“If a conservative is still a republican after the last 13 years, he is blind to the fact that his party of choice has failed him utterly.” – Realitybasedbob

realitybasedbob on July 6, 2008 at 09:56 pm
Avatar for Nunez

How do you know when you might be saying stupid things? When your quote ends up on a website that’s an ‘archive of the most hilarious, bizarre, ignorant, bigoted, and terrifying quotes from fundies all over the internet!’

Congratulations robert108, you won!

http://www.fstdt.com/fundies/comments.aspx?q=19354

Nunez on July 6, 2008 at 09:57 pm

rbb: Your post of old quotes is irrelevant, and you know it.  Rumsfeld was right, of course, and the Downing Street “minutes” are a leftie fabrication.

Even for you, this is pathetic.  It does show how “progressive” you are, though.


Media uncovers more Palin stories in one weekend than Obama stories in two years. Still no bias detected

Obama: more experienced than Bristol Palin

robert108 on July 6, 2008 at 09:58 pm

Woof: You have obviously parroted the wrong material.
Unless you think the AP is lying, of course.


Media uncovers more Palin stories in one weekend than Obama stories in two years. Still no bias detected

Obama: more experienced than Bristol Palin

robert108 on July 6, 2008 at 09:59 pm

I think it’s called: “When caught, change the subject.”

robert108 on September 13, 2006 at 5:39 PM


“If a conservative is still a republican after the last 13 years, he is blind to the fact that his party of choice has failed him utterly.” – Realitybasedbob

realitybasedbob on July 6, 2008 at 10:04 pm

Nice job, r108.  You enticed all the Saddam suck-ups to come out of their holes.


You don’t have to be a moron to be a liberal Democrat but it sure helps.

docdave on July 7, 2008 at 02:37 am

Nunez - How do you know when you might be saying stupid things? When your quote ends up on a website that’s an ‘archive of the most hilarious, bizarre, ignorant, bigoted, and terrifying quotes from fundies all over the internet!’

Yeah, you know who submitted that quote? A crapflooding sockpuppeter who spammed this board with gay porn for two days.

Go ahead and hang your hat on that one if you want. It won’t make you look intelligent in light of how it transpired, but go right ahead. You’re “winning”, Nunez!

likwidshoe on July 7, 2008 at 03:20 am
Avatar for Lestat

You lie; I’m not “using it”, the AP is saying it.  I bolded it for you truth-challenged leftie liars.

Dumbass, look at the headline you wrote.  What you are dishonestly (or ignorantly) ignoring is the FACT that this stuff had been in known about and in storage since 1991.

Lestat on July 7, 2008 at 05:47 am

this stuff had been in known about and in storage since 1991.

The fact that it is known doesn’t mean it wasn’t a threat.

Saddam was known to be funding suicide bombing in Israel too.  Does the fact we knew about it at the time make it less threatening?

The issue with respect to the nuclear program wasn’t that Saddam was actively trying to build a bomb in 2003.  It was the belief that he was going to restart his program once sanctions ended that was the basis of the threat assessment. For example there was evidence prior to the war that Saddam had hidden many of the centrifuges used for purification, which was substantiated with a post invasion find of buried centrifuge parts To paraphrase Bush, “You’re doing a great job, IAEA”.

See if you can wrap your brains around those facts and respond to them, rather than to something nobody is saying.

Carrick on July 7, 2008 at 06:52 am

This from the same AP article, for the nutters like uncle R108:
Tuwaitha and an adjacent research facility were well known for decades as the centerpiece of Saddam’s nuclear efforts.
Israeli warplanes bombed a reactor project at the site in 1981. Later, U.N. inspectors documented and safeguarded the yellowcake, which had been stored in aging drums and containers since before the 1991 Gulf War. There was no evidence of any yellowcake dating from after 1991, the official said.
U.S. and Iraqi forces have guarded the 23,000-acre site - surrounded by huge sand berms - following a wave of looting after Saddam’s fall that included villagers toting away yellowcake storage barrels for use as drinking water cisterns.

ellinas on July 7, 2008 at 08:23 am

Saddam was known to be funding suicide bombing in Israel too.  Does the fact we knew about it at the time make it less threatening?
Carrick on July 7, 2008 at 06:52 am

How was he funding it?

ellinas on July 7, 2008 at 08:31 am

Carrick,s attempt at deception unveiled.
Nuke program parts unearthed in Baghdad back yard
U.S. officials: Find is not smoking gunThursday, June 26, 2003 Posted: 1047 GMT ( 6:47 PM HKT)
Parts of a gas centrifuge system for enriching uranium were dug up in Baghdad.
CNN’s Mike Boettcher spoke to the Iraqi scientist who led U.S. officials to the nuclear centrifuge buried in his back yard.
A former Iraqi scientist gives the CIA nuclear centrifuge parts and plans buried in his rose garden.
WHY THE CENTRIFUGE IS IMPORTANT
Uranium hexafluoride gas is placed in a series of rotating drums or cylinders that run at high speeds to extract weapon grade uranium.
(CNN)—The CIA has in its hands the critical parts of a key piece of Iraqi nuclear technology—parts needed to develop a bomb program—that were dug up in a back yard in Baghdad, CNN has learned.
The parts, with accompanying plans, were unearthed by Iraqi scientist Mahdi Obeidi who had hidden them under a rose bush in his garden 12 years ago under orders from Qusay Hussein and Saddam Hussein’s then son-in-law, Hussein Kamel.
U.S. officials emphasized this was not evidence Iraq had a nuclear weapon—but it was evidence the Iraqis concealed plans to reconstitute their nuclear program as soon as the world was no longer looking.

ellinas on July 7, 2008 at 08:39 am

How was he funding it?

With money; he paid the families.


Media uncovers more Palin stories in one weekend than Obama stories in two years. Still no bias detected

Obama: more experienced than Bristol Palin

robert108 on July 7, 2008 at 08:43 am

Did he pay them in advance to go commit terrorist acts, or did he pay the family after the fact.
Middle Eastern custom is for sons to care for the elderly parents. Son gone, no care. Therefore he was taking care of the destitute parents. The suicide bombings would occur with Saddams money, or without.

ellinas on July 7, 2008 at 09:12 am

rbb: I bolded the truth about Saddam’s nuke program, as reported by the AP.  Get over yourself.
If you don’t know by now, don’t mess with it.
robert108 on July 6, 2008 at 09:53 pm

Another mistatement (lie) by uncle Robert.
No. You did not bold anything as reported by the AP.
You bolded what was reported by the American Thinker.

ellinas on July 7, 2008 at 09:19 am

Elinas, WTF?  Your article supports my original claim:

U.S. officials emphasized this was not evidence Iraq had a nuclear weapon—but it was evidence the Iraqis concealed plans to reconstitute their nuclear program as soon as the world was no longer looking.

I didn’t say he had a nuclear weapon, you dummy.  I said the fear was that he would pursue building them again after sanctions were lifted.

Can you read?

Therefore he was taking care of the destitute parents. The suicide bombings would occur with Saddams money, or without.

However, it set up a monetary incentive for the suicide bombers, since they knew that if they committed suicide and murdered innocent people, their families would be taken care of.

That’s so simple and obvious, even you should be able to figure that out.

Carrick on July 7, 2008 at 09:22 am

Here’s a table of more substantive support of terrorism by Saddam:

08sized.jpg

His “scholarships” for the families of suicide bombers was by no means the limit of his support of terrorism.

Really this just shows how goofy and apologistic towards terrorists and totalitarian leaders the lefties on this blog are.  Everything in the world is the US’s fault. Somehow we force these people to do evil things they would never do on their own.

Carrick on July 7, 2008 at 09:33 am

You bolded what was reported by the American Thinker.

What about this? “The last major remnant of Saddam Hussein’s nuclear program—a huge stockpile of concentrated natural uranium—reached a Canadian port.Isn’t that a direct quote from the AP?

I’m starting to think you’re a simpleton.

Carrick on July 7, 2008 at 09:34 am

For example there was evidence prior to the war that Saddam had hidden many of the centrifuges used for purification, which was substantiated with a post invasion find of buried centrifuge parts To paraphrase Bush, “You’re doing a great job, IAEA”.
Carrick on July 7, 2008 at 08:52 am

This is WTF:
The parts, with accompanying plans, were unearthed by Iraqi scientist Mahdi Obeidi who had hidden them under a rose bush in his garden 12 years ago under orders from Qusay Hussein and Saddam Hussein’s then son-in-law, Hussein Kamel.
That is the deception, or if I was to be charitable mistake in your part.

Money did not, and does not motivate Palestinian terrorists. Hatred for the real and perceived injustice by their enemies is their motivation.
Nobody wakes up in the morning and say’s:
Today I will blow up myself along with a lot of Jews so Saddam can pay my parents $20.000 dollars.

ellinas on July 7, 2008 at 09:43 am

What about this? “The last major remnant of Saddam Hussein’s nuclear program—a huge stockpile of concentrated natural uranium—reached a Canadian port.Isn’t that a direct quote from the AP?
I’m starting to think you’re a simpleton.
Carrick on July 7, 2008 at 09:34 am

That one is. But the majority is not.
I’m starting to think you’re an automaton.

ellinas on July 7, 2008 at 09:47 am

The parts, with accompanying plans, were unearthed by Iraqi scientist Mahdi
Obeidi who had hidden them under a rose bush in his garden 12 years
ago
under orders from Qusay Hussein and Saddam Hussein’s then
son-in-law, Hussein Kamel.

Um… yeah.  I see it now.

NOT.

WTF does who ordered them to hide the centrifuges or when they were hidden have to do with shit?

Money did not, and does not motivate Palestinian terrorists

What utter bullshit, on every possible level.

The decision to blow oneself up certainly can be influenced by what happens to your family once you are deceased.

Are you really this dumb?

Carrick on July 7, 2008 at 09:48 am

Most Palestinian terrorists don’t blow themselves up by the way (mores the pity).  They are there because it’s a good paying job… In other words, they are just mercenaries, and of course heroes to lefties like Ellinas.

If you want to see an end to terrorism in the middle east, you have to start by cutting off the funding.  Without cutting off funding, the terrorists have no incentive to do anything different than they are doing right now.  Peace right now is impossible.

Carrick on July 7, 2008 at 09:55 am

Carrick,

And a fair number of recent splodey-dopes have been remote detonated while they believed they were merely transporting the explosive vest.  overcompensating-elinas-the-shy sure can pick them.


Out Here
Rodney G. Graves

Ceterum censeo Parthia esse delendam
Latin: “Furthermore, Parthia (Persia aka modern day Iran) should be destroyed.”

Rodney Graves on July 7, 2008 at 09:59 am

Carrick. Your list is highly suspect as it contains a terrorist organisation named PKK or Kurdistan Workers Party. Anybody claiming to know anything will tell anyone that PKK and Iraq were enemies. Many battles were fought between the PKK the Iraqi, Turkish and Iranian armies. And even today Turks and Iranians are conducting joint opperations against the PKK.

ellinas on July 7, 2008 at 10:04 am

True, Rodney.  Are there are a fair number where the families were held hostage and threatened with execution unless the bomber carried through with his “orders”.

The idealistic notion that these are just people who acting out their angry over injustice is what is truly pathological here.  If you are angry with the Israeli government, you kill soldiers or governmental officials associated with the injustice, not little girls.

The terrorist leaders gain politically and monetarily from the more excessive acts against civilian populations.  That is what truly drives this style of attacks.

Carrick on July 7, 2008 at 10:05 am

WTF does who ordered them to hide the centrifuges or when they were hidden have to do with shit
Carrick on July 7, 2008 at 09:48 am
We went to war for what he was doing after the gulf war, not before. If you can’t figure that one out, I can’t help you with anything.

ellinas on July 7, 2008 at 10:13 am

Good morning beloved Rodney. How are you today?

ellinas on July 7, 2008 at 10:14 am

Ellinas, you’re just showing your ignorance again. The PKK operates against Turkey and Iran.  Saddam was funding this organization to undermine his next door neighbors.  It’s just yet another example of his connections to international terrorism.  See for example <a href="http://www.mcclatchydc.com/227/story/29959.html">This, which is a story from March of this year.

I suspect you’re thinking of the PDK, which was a vowed enemy of Saddam, and being democratically leaning, would certainly be viewed as a danger to Saddam’s regime.  The PKK, being in favor of socialistic totalitarianism, weren’t that far away philosophically from Saddam.

Carrick on July 7, 2008 at 10:15 am

We went to war for what he was doing after the gulf war, not before. If you can’t figure that one out, I can’t help you with anything.

I see.  The problem is you are math impaired.  The centrifuges were hidden because of the 1991 invasion of Iraq (that is twelve years before 2003 for math impaired types), because the Iraqi government was afraid they would be confiscated by the US.

Not that when they were hidden is relevant. 

I’ll explain this one more time:  The fear was that Saddam would attempt to reconstitute his weapon program after the war ended.  The fact that he was hiding the means to do so.  When they were hidden is irrelevant, what the US government thought he would do with them once sanctions ended was.

And the fact that they were successfully hidden from the IAEA?  Great job there guys!  Way to make the world safer!

Carrick on July 7, 2008 at 10:20 am

.......and of course heroes to lefties like Ellinas.
Carrick on July 7, 2008 at 09:55 am
That is your opinion. However false you are entitled to it.

The idealistic notion that these are just people who acting out their angry over injustice is what is truly pathological here.  If you are angry with the Israeli government, you kill soldiers or governmental officials associated with the injustice, not little girls.
Carrick on July 7, 2008 at 10:05 am

Then this should also apply to the IDF, no?

Allow me to paraphase what you wrote:
If you are angry with the Palestinian terrorists, you kill terrorists or governmental officials associated with the injustice, you do not demolish houses, or kill little boys and girls.

ellinas on July 7, 2008 at 10:23 am

A summary of els comments: Saddam - good; USA - bad


You don’t have to be a moron to be a liberal Democrat but it sure helps.

docdave on July 7, 2008 at 10:28 am

For your eyes only:
Kongra-Gel was founded by Abdullah Ocalan in 1974 as a Marxist-Leninist separatist organization and formally named the Kurdistan Workers’ Party (PKK) in 1978. The group, composed primarily of Turkish Kurds, began in 1984 its campaign of armed violence, which has resulted in some 30,000 casualties. The PKK’s goal has been to establish an independent Kurdish state in southeast Turkey, northern Iraq, and parts of Iran and Syria.

ellinas on July 7, 2008 at 10:31 am

If you are angry with the Palestinian terrorists, you kill terrorists or governmental officials associated with the injustice, you do not demolish houses, or kill little boys and girls.

How noble of you to dictate tactics of which you know nothing.  How about all the ‘little boys and girls’ that are indisciminately killed by the terrorists.  Most civilian deaths atributed to our side result from the terrorists using ‘little boys and girls’ as shields.

Got news for you, el, wars are not fought on chivilry terms anymore.


You don’t have to be a moron to be a liberal Democrat but it sure helps.

docdave on July 7, 2008 at 10:36 am

A summary of els comments: Saddam - good; USA - bad
docdave on July 7, 2008 at 10:28 am

Not realy. But this is a free country. Feel free to make stupid and ignorant statements and assume idiotic positions.

ellinas on July 7, 2008 at 10:37 am

Feel free to make stupid and ignorant statements and assume idiotic positions.

And I thought you had a lock on that.

Please give me just a single reference to one or your comments that supports the USA’s mideast position.


You don’t have to be a moron to be a liberal Democrat but it sure helps.

docdave on July 7, 2008 at 10:51 am

How about all the ‘little boys and girls’ that are indisciminately killed by the terrorists.
docdave on July 7, 2008 at 10:36 am

A terrible terrible suffering. I wish it would not happen. It pains me greatly, and my heart is with the ones that suffer.

Having said that, I ask you how you reconcile this statement:
Got news for you, el, wars are not fought on chivilry terms anymore.
docdave on July 7, 2008 at 10:36 am

You also say: “Most civilian deaths atributed to our side....”

Our side? Our side?  Are you American or Israeli?
If your “our side” comment is true then you have no right to say this: “The Supreme Court is a bunch of black robed tyrants”

ellinas on July 7, 2008 at 10:52 am

Please give me just a single reference to one or your comments that supports the USA’s mideast position. 
docdave on July 7, 2008 at 10:51 am

I don’t have to support any position in regards to the Middle East to prove that I love my country.

This is my position: God in his infinite wisdom placed the Israelis and Palestinians next to each other as punishment. They are both Semitic people with religions that preach eye for an eye, tit for tat. So they deserve what they get. When they (Palestinians and Israelis) grow up and realise that outside instigators do not have their best interests in mind, maybe then there will be peace in the region. As long as Islamic and Christian nuts keep funding the hatred there will be no solace.
My utopian dream for the region is: One country with citizenship equality and safety for all people living there. But it is just a dream.

ellinas on July 7, 2008 at 11:08 am

Terrorism is the strategy of a small force to defeat a larger force by making it lose heart.  A propaganda campaign is an integral part of the strategy of terrorism, and those who support terrorists and their goals are participants in that terrorism, even though they may claim to be acting out of good intentions.
They are the “useful idiots” of terrorism.


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robert108 on July 7, 2008 at 11:16 am

Aha!

Terrorism is the strategy of a small force to defeat a larger force by making it lose heart.

The 407th definition proffered on this blog of ‘terrorism’. Maybe r108 and Carrick should get their stories straight.


rasberry

Sparkie Arbuckle on July 7, 2008 at 11:26 am

As I have pointed out repeatedly, we support terrorists.

“yellowcake”, or concentrated uranium

i thought yellowcake was the unconcentrated kind. just a little embellishment, eh?


rasberry

Sparkie Arbuckle on July 7, 2008 at 11:30 am

Maybe r108 and Carrick should get their stories straight.

This has always been my definition, Sparkie.  You get it wrong yet again.


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robert108 on July 7, 2008 at 11:34 am

Sparkie: You support terrorists and terrorism; “we” don’t.
Yellowcake is concentrated uranium ore.  You could have looked it up.


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robert108 on July 7, 2008 at 11:36 am

You did not bold anything as reported by the AP. You bolded what was reported by the<b> American Thinker.</b>

Wrong again.  What part of this didn’t you understand?

But today, on July 6, 2008, the Associated Press reports that

* Saddam Hussein had a nuclear program
* At the Tuwaitha nuclear complex just south of Baghdad
* Which included 550 metric tons (over 1.2 million pounds) of “yellowcake”, or concentrated uranium
* And multiple devices that could be used in a nuclear weapon.

This time, I italicized the key words for you.


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robert108 on July 7, 2008 at 11:40 am

If you are angry with the Palestinian terrorists, you kill terrorists or governmental officials associated with the injustice, you do not demolish houses, or kill little boys and girls.

Nice attempt to change the subject, but you are right, one shouldn’t kill children.  The homes of known terrorists and their supporters on the other hand, well of course you should.  Of course, by the same token, you shouldn’t put your military facilities in the middle of towns to try and reduce the chance they get attacked.

That’s equivalent to using women and children as human shields, and is a very shameful practice.

Carrick on July 7, 2008 at 11:55 am

The PKK’s goal has been to establish an independent Kurdish state in southeast Turkey, northern Iraq, and parts of Iran and Syria.

Irrelevant.  Saddam was using them to undermine PDK.

That’s 100% completely documented, and you are looking even stupider by demonstrating your ignorance of the facts.

Carrick on July 7, 2008 at 11:56 am

Sparkie:

The 407th definition proffered on this blog of ‘terrorism’. Maybe r108 and Carrick should get their stories straight.

He’s allowed his definitions, the same as I’m allowed mine, and you’re allowed your continued practice of intellectually dishonest debating practices.

‘nuff said.

Carrick on July 7, 2008 at 11:58 am

Yellowcake is concentrated uranium ore

no, it isn’t. yellowcake is milled uranium. its an ore before that. nevertheless, it still needs to be calcinated, refined, and converted. some naturally occurring ores are almost as concentrated as yellowcake, but that doesn’t make yellowcake an ore.

You support terrorists and terrorism; “we” don’t.

The US does, has, and continues to.


rasberry

Sparkie Arbuckle on July 7, 2008 at 11:58 am

He’s allowed his definitions, the same as I’m allowed mine

the words of a true moral absolutist. we’re just waiting for the empirical evidence to refine our usage right carrick? hardy har har.


rasberry

Sparkie Arbuckle on July 7, 2008 at 11:59 am

Sparkie:

yellowcake is milled uranium.

Wrong.

yellowcake are uranium concentrates obtained by the use of chemical solutions to separate the uranium from the ore.  <i>Milling<i> is an entirely different process, although it is usually involved in the process of milling the ore (depending on how consolidated it is). 

Robert’s original language “Yellowcake is concentrated uranium ore” is close enough to an exact statement that an expert wouldn’t even blink at it.  By volume, yellow cake is a much higher concentration of uranium isotopes than the original ore, which I imagine is Robert108’s original point.

Carrick on July 7, 2008 at 12:02 pm

What does moral absolutism have to do with linguistics, you nut job?

Carrick on July 7, 2008 at 12:03 pm

Sorry, process of milling the ore should read process of refining the ore.

Also, I wouldn’t use this definition, “Terrorism is the strategy of a small force to defeat a larger force by making it lose heart.” I would define it as violence or the threat of violence against a civilian population in order to achieve political objectives.  Small forces can defeat larger ones without having to resort to violence against civilians. 

Standard insurgency techniques don’t employ terror as a weapon, although terror can be an after effect. (You think the US marines coming knocking on your door at 4AM ain’t going to generate a bit of terror? But it’s not terrorism.  Neither is blowing up a weapons depot… or blowing up a tank with a bomb etc)

Carrick on July 7, 2008 at 12:11 pm

Copied and pasted from your original post:
But today, on July 6, 2008, the Associated Press reports that
* Saddam Hussein had a nuclear program
* At the Tuwaitha nuclear complex just south of Baghdad
* Which included 550 metric tons (over 1.2 million pounds) of “yellowcake”, or concentrated uranium
* And multiple devices that could be used in a nuclear weapon.

The AP does not say alleged nuclear program.  It does not add “according to military experts.” It simply says “Saddam Hussein’s nuclear program.”

That’s pretty big news, isn’t it?

For about five years now, those of us who thought Saddam Hussein probably had at least WMD programs, if not WMD themselves, have been called not only wrong, but illogical and insane.

And now the American Thinker article:
The media have been telling us for years that Saddam had no WMD, so “Bush’s War”: was based on a “lie.” And those who believed Saddam did have WMD or WMD programs were delusional or worse.

But today, on July 6, 2008, the Associated Press reports that Saddam Hussein had a nuclear program

At the Tuwaitha nuclear complex just south of Baghdad
Which included 550 metric tons (over 1.2 million pounds) of “yellowcake”, or concentrated uranium
And multiple devices that could be used in a nuclear weapon. 

The AP does not say alleged nuclear program.  It does not add “according to military experts.” It simply says “Saddam Hussein’s nuclear program.”

That’s pretty big news, isn’t it?

For about five years now, those of us who thought Saddam Hussein probably had at least WMD programs, if not WMD themselves, have been called not only wrong, but illogical and insane.

With sleight of hand, and creative wrighting, those not well versed with your methods assume that what you wrote was taken straight from the AP.

ellinas on July 7, 2008 at 12:27 pm
Rob
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There’s terror and then there’s terror.

American revolutionaries, for instance, making British patrols disappear without a trace would no doubt terrify the British but wouldn’t necessarily rise to the level of terrorism.

American revolutionaries murdering the children of loyalists, on the other hand, would have been terrorism and inexcusable.


When the people fear their government, there is tyranny; when the government fears the people, there is liberty.

-- Thomas Jefferson

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Rob on July 7, 2008 at 12:30 pm