Home (Post) Mobile Authors Say Anything Register Login

Wednesday, July 23, 2008

The Sweet Illusion Of Socialism

By TERRY SATER

[...]

In April, when Sen. Joe Lieberman, I-Conn., was asked if presidential candidate Sen. Barack Obama was a Marxist, he replied:

“I must say, that’s a good question . . . I will tell you that during this campaign, I’ve learned some things about him, about the kind of environment from which he came ideologically. And I wouldn’t . . . I’d hesitate to say he’s a Marxist, but he’s got some positions that are far to the left of me and I think mainstream America.”

It was a good question, but there is a broader one: Will America hold to the principles of capitalism and free enterprise or will it embrace elements of socialism, Marxism and communism? Those are our choices.

We must have the intellectual honesty and moral courage to debate the choices plainly, by proper definition and without equivocation or censorship. Words matter. The left avoids any use of the terms “socialism” or “Marxism.” Conservatives have been intimidated into using childish euphemisms such as “nanny state.”

Webster’s dictionary defines “socialized medicine” as “medical and hospital services for the members of a class or population administered by an organized group (as a state agency) and paid for from funds obtained by assessments, philanthropy or taxation.” We should call it that, rather than “universal health care.”

In May, two House Democrats called for nationalization of the U.S. oil industry. A June Rasmussen poll reported that 37% of Democrats liked the idea. Webster’s defines “communism” in part as “a theory advocating elimination of private property” or “a totalitarian system of government in which a single authoritarian party controls state-owned means of production with the professed aim of establishing a stateless society.”

In 2004, Sen. Hillary Clinton, D-N.Y., said: “We’re going to take things away from you on behalf of the common good.” She could have easily quoted Karl Marx, who said: “From each according to his ability, to each according to his need.”

The Fairness Doctrine, favored by many Democrats, sounds wonderful, but it ironically disguises the ultimate objective: silencing conservative speech. Why not just call it the Kill Conservative Talk Doctrine?

We’ve come far from promises of “a chicken in every pot” to Barack Obama’s June 3 declaration that “the chance to get a college education is the birthright of every American.” When did it become a birthright?

In his 1982 book, “The Spirit of Democratic Capitalism,” Michael Novak noted that many who have lived under socialism would find it hard to believe “that other human beings would fall for the same bundle of lies, half-truths and distortions. Sadly, however, illusion is often sweeter to human taste than reality. The last Marxist in the world will probably be an American nun.”

“The American people will never knowingly adopt socialism,” said Norman Thomas, a U.S. Socialist Party presidential candidate in the 1940s. “But under the name of ‘liberalism,’ they will adopt every fragment of the socialist program, until one day, America will be a socialist nation, without knowing how it happened.”

If it is to be, let’s do it with our eyes open, aware of every ponderous step.

I understand why a person wouldn’t look a gift horse in the mouth when promised “entitlements” or income redistribution or care whether it is called liberalism, progressivism, socialism, Marxism, communism or “change.” We at least should know whether it is a gift horse or a Trojan horse, or a combination of the two.

Vote Conservative.  Save America.

Comments

Proof
Proof
11167 comments
Send a private message

Jay Nordlinger:

“Is the Democratic party essentially socialist?”

Phil Graham:

“Yes, if by ‘socialist’ you mean the redistribution of wealth, more decisions made by the central government — no question about it. My grandmother thought of the Democrats as the party of the people. What they are is the party of government.”

from Quote du jour - Proof Positive



For any voter trying to choose between the two candidates for commander in chief, there is no better test than this: When American strategy in a critical theater was up for grabs, John McCain proposed a highly unpopular and risky path, which he accurately predicted could lead to success. Barack Obama proposed a popular and politically safe route that would have led to an unnecessary and debilitating American defeat at the hands of al Qaeda.

Frederick W. Kagan

Proof on July 23, 2008 at 08:21 am

Vote Republican. Save America.


"Here lies, in honored glory, an American soldier, known but to God.”

“As a conservative, I will not be overly enthusiastic about voting for John McCain on November 4 - but I will be sprinting to the polling place to do so!”
Matthew May, conservative commentator, The American Spectator

pparets on July 23, 2008 at 08:24 am

pp: Vote for conservative Republicans, Save America.  Don’t vote for RINOs!
You can’t seem to shake your addiction to ‘jacking every thread to your McCain commercials.  Still no sale!


Media uncovers more Palin stories in one weekend than Obama stories in two years. Still no bias detected

Obama: more experienced than Bristol Palin

robert108 on July 23, 2008 at 08:27 am

liberalism?

Liberalism is a doctrine stressing individual freedom and limited government. This includes the importance of human rationality, individual property rights, natural rights, the protection of civil liberties, constitutional limitations of government, free markets, and individual freedom from restraint…

You guys are against that, eh? Socialism is it?


rasberry

Sparkie Arbuckle on July 23, 2008 at 08:29 am

108:  Um, I don’t think ‘Conservative Republican’ will appear on the ballot, but McCain and Obama will.  Vote one, vote the other, don’t vote. 

It’s still SAY ANYTHING.


"Here lies, in honored glory, an American soldier, known but to God.”

“As a conservative, I will not be overly enthusiastic about voting for John McCain on November 4 - but I will be sprinting to the polling place to do so!”
Matthew May, conservative commentator, The American Spectator

pparets on July 23, 2008 at 08:30 am

Well, sparkie, that’s what 18th Century liberalism used to mean.  But then you already knew that - in 21st Century terms - you were offering a difference without a distinction.


"Here lies, in honored glory, an American soldier, known but to God.”

“As a conservative, I will not be overly enthusiastic about voting for John McCain on November 4 - but I will be sprinting to the polling place to do so!”
Matthew May, conservative commentator, The American Spectator

pparets on July 23, 2008 at 08:34 am

Liberalism is a doctrine stressing individual freedom and limited government. This includes the importance of human rationality, individual property rights, natural rights, the protection of civil liberties, constitutional limitations of government, free markets, and individual freedom from restraint…

Modern day liberalism means exactly the opposite of that statement and you know it!


No matter the age or state of health, for a military man it is always glorious to tilt at windmills, rescue a fair Dulcinea and be a gallant knight in armor in a glorious cause.

Neiman on July 23, 2008 at 08:37 am

It’s still SAY ANYTHING.

Try to keep that in mind when you attack my posts with your McCain commercials.  Like some people, you confuse freedom with license.  FYI, that’s a typical leftie position.


Media uncovers more Palin stories in one weekend than Obama stories in two years. Still no bias detected

Obama: more experienced than Bristol Palin

robert108 on July 23, 2008 at 08:38 am

that’s what 18th Century liberalism used to mean

you mean 20th century? see Hayek, Nozick, Milton Friedman, etc.

In fact, it still means that in the 21st century, see Kukathas.


rasberry

Sparkie Arbuckle on July 23, 2008 at 08:41 am

108:  when did saying anything become a leftie position??  And no one is “attacking” you or your posts.

Freedom means liberty.  License means permission.

Perhaps you can explain your version of the the difference between “freedom to speak” and “license to speak”?


"Here lies, in honored glory, an American soldier, known but to God.”

“As a conservative, I will not be overly enthusiastic about voting for John McCain on November 4 - but I will be sprinting to the polling place to do so!”
Matthew May, conservative commentator, The American Spectator

pparets on July 23, 2008 at 08:51 am

The differences can be expressed two ways:

It’s “say anything”, not “say everything, no matter if it’s relevant or not”.

The difference between freedom and license is responsibility.  Freedom requires responsibility, license is abdication of responsibility.

It’s like the leftie confusion of “rights” with “entitlements”.


Media uncovers more Palin stories in one weekend than Obama stories in two years. Still no bias detected

Obama: more experienced than Bristol Palin

robert108 on July 23, 2008 at 09:06 am

108: 

… no matter if it’s relevant or not.

Whether another’s comment is relevant is NOT your choice to make. 

The ‘anything’ in SAY ANYTHING means what it says.


"Here lies, in honored glory, an American soldier, known but to God.”

“As a conservative, I will not be overly enthusiastic about voting for John McCain on November 4 - but I will be sprinting to the polling place to do so!”
Matthew May, conservative commentator, The American Spectator

pparets on July 23, 2008 at 09:12 am

pp: “relevance” has a definition, and you’re on the wrong side of it here.  Like a willful child, you keep asserting your “right” to say whatever pops into your head, and then you even try to spin that into your off-topic flood being “relevant” in some way.  It isn’t relevant, no matter what you say to defend yourself.
You have chosen to be non-relevant here, and only you know why you made that choice.  At least try to be a man, and own what you have done.


Media uncovers more Palin stories in one weekend than Obama stories in two years. Still no bias detected

Obama: more experienced than Bristol Palin

robert108 on July 23, 2008 at 10:32 am

Whether another person’s comment is relative is NOT your choice to make, robert.  Nor are you entitled to decide whether anyone’s comment is on the wrong or right side.

Where in the world did you get the idea that you can dictate to others what they can say or where they can say it?

Oh, I know!

..never give an inch in a debate..

Apparently meaning regardless of whether you are right, wrong, or misinformed.


"Here lies, in honored glory, an American soldier, known but to God.”

“As a conservative, I will not be overly enthusiastic about voting for John McCain on November 4 - but I will be sprinting to the polling place to do so!”
Matthew May, conservative commentator, The American Spectator

pparets on July 23, 2008 at 10:44 am

Where in the world did you get the idea that you can dictate to others what they can say or where they can say it?

Calling you on your off-topic bullshit isn’t “dictating” anything; it’s just citing facts.
Your exaggerated spin is noted.


Media uncovers more Palin stories in one weekend than Obama stories in two years. Still no bias detected

Obama: more experienced than Bristol Palin

robert108 on July 23, 2008 at 10:56 am

Robert108 dictating what is relevant:

It isn’t relevant, no matter what you say

you have chosen to be non-relevant here

you can’t seem to shake your addiction to ‘jacking every thread

you keep asserting your right to say whatever pops into your head


"Here lies, in honored glory, an American soldier, known but to God.”

“As a conservative, I will not be overly enthusiastic about voting for John McCain on November 4 - but I will be sprinting to the polling place to do so!”
Matthew May, conservative commentator, The American Spectator

pparets on July 23, 2008 at 11:05 am

Robert108 dictating what is relevant:

Now you’re just lying.  Unless you change the definition of “dictate”, you are just wrong.  I realize you need to grasp at any personal attack straws you think you can use, but Rob is the only dictator on SA, and he is a very benevolent one.
Your attacks on me are obviously not relevant to the subject of proven leftie media bias, and I have simply called you on your lack of relevancy.  Instead of being a man, and owning up to your crap, you try to make any old grade-school attack to cover your lying ass.  Shame on you.


Media uncovers more Palin stories in one weekend than Obama stories in two years. Still no bias detected

Obama: more experienced than Bristol Palin

robert108 on July 23, 2008 at 11:23 am

Opps, there you go again, 108:

.. are obviously not relevant

Says who?  You?  Not your call to make.


"Here lies, in honored glory, an American soldier, known but to God.”

“As a conservative, I will not be overly enthusiastic about voting for John McCain on November 4 - but I will be sprinting to the polling place to do so!”
Matthew May, conservative commentator, The American Spectator

pparets on July 23, 2008 at 11:58 am

Says who?  You?  Not your call to make.

Sounds like you want to dictate to me, just like McCain wants to dictate our energy use through his socialist “cap and trade” tax scheme.

Main Entry:
rel·e·vant Listen to the pronunciation of relevant
Pronunciation:
\ˈre-lə-vənt\
Function:
adjective
Etymology:
Medieval Latin relevant-, relevans, from Latin, present participle of relevare to raise up — more at relieve
Date:
1560

1 a: having significant and demonstrable bearing on the matter at hand
b: affording evidence tending to prove or disprove the matter at issue or under discussion <relevant testimony>
c: having social relevance2: proportional, relative

It’s a definitional thing.


Media uncovers more Palin stories in one weekend than Obama stories in two years. Still no bias detected

Obama: more experienced than Bristol Palin

robert108 on July 23, 2008 at 12:01 pm

Agreed.  That’s why it’s not your call to decide what is relevant.  Every contributor to this blog - on any thread - gets to make that decision for themselves.


"Here lies, in honored glory, an American soldier, known but to God.”

“As a conservative, I will not be overly enthusiastic about voting for John McCain on November 4 - but I will be sprinting to the polling place to do so!”
Matthew May, conservative commentator, The American Spectator

pparets on July 23, 2008 at 12:05 pm

That’s why it’s not your call to decide what is relevant. Every contributor to this blog - on any thread - gets to make that decision for themselves.

And that’s exactly why I’m now going to insert negative facts about McCain’s policies on every thread.  To hell with relevance!  You’ve won me over to your ideological anarchy.


Media uncovers more Palin stories in one weekend than Obama stories in two years. Still no bias detected

Obama: more experienced than Bristol Palin

robert108 on July 23, 2008 at 12:16 pm

"Ideological anarchy”!!??  hahaha.  You are still at your best when you try to be dramatic.


"Here lies, in honored glory, an American soldier, known but to God.”

“As a conservative, I will not be overly enthusiastic about voting for John McCain on November 4 - but I will be sprinting to the polling place to do so!”
Matthew May, conservative commentator, The American Spectator

pparets on July 23, 2008 at 12:23 pm

pp: I get it; you’re “the Decider” of what’s relevant for you, and I’m “the Decider” of what’s relevant for me, which is why I have decided that telling the truth about why McCain is bad for America is now my number one priority on this blog, from now until the election.
You have shown me the way by sticking to your argument and not backing down.  Congratulations!


Media uncovers more Palin stories in one weekend than Obama stories in two years. Still no bias detected

Obama: more experienced than Bristol Palin

robert108 on July 23, 2008 at 12:32 pm

BTW, “anarchy” is where everyone gets to decide for themselves what things mean.  I guess you don’t know that.  Your justification for your off-topic excursion is a definition of anarchy.  I’m going to follow your lead in this.  Hope you enjoy the ride.


Media uncovers more Palin stories in one weekend than Obama stories in two years. Still no bias detected

Obama: more experienced than Bristol Palin

robert108 on July 23, 2008 at 12:33 pm

Robert…

You posted a thread about how Obama is a Marxist. And Pparets responded with “Vote Republican.” While not a terribly brilliant comment, it hardly seems irrelevant.

“Vote Republican” seems to be quite the normal response to an article saying that Democrats are leading us down the road to socialism.

I don’t know why the fight got picked in the first place...he just mentioned Republican, which would include: Senators, Represenatives, State Legislators, Governors, Mayors, and, yes, President. While McCain would indeed fall into this category...it was not a vote McCain ad. And you’re being really nasty to the dude when he’s not doing anything wrong.


Obama/Biden is not change. It’s more of the same.

Kenny on July 23, 2008 at 12:49 pm

kenny, pp and r108 are just having a ‘lovers’ quarrel.


You don’t have to be a moron to be a liberal Democrat but it sure helps.

docdave on July 23, 2008 at 12:55 pm

Kenny: I concluded the post with “Vote Conservative”, and pp tried to morph that into “Vote Republican”, which underscores McCain’s outright lie that he is “a proud Reagan conservative”, when he is simply nothing of the kind.  That was the basis of my disagreement.  With McCain’s Party leadership("crossing the aisle” and pandering to the Dems at every turn), voting Republican is almost the exact opposite of voting Conservative.
That was my point.
For some time now, pp has been hijacking threads to run his commercials for McCain, so now I’m returning the favor, in spades.


Media uncovers more Palin stories in one weekend than Obama stories in two years. Still no bias detected

Obama: more experienced than Bristol Palin

robert108 on July 23, 2008 at 12:58 pm

kenny, pp and r108 are just having a ‘lovers’ quarrel.

You couldn’t be more wrong, dd.


Media uncovers more Palin stories in one weekend than Obama stories in two years. Still no bias detected

Obama: more experienced than Bristol Palin

robert108 on July 23, 2008 at 01:05 pm

That’s why it’s not your call to decide what is relevant.  Every contributor to this blog - on any thread - gets to make that decision for themselves.

Sounds like a utopia to me. wink


"The national budget must be balanced. The public debt must be reduced; the arrogance of the authorities must be moderated and controlled. Payments to foreign governments must be reduced if the nation doesn’t want to go bankrupt. People must again learn to work, instead of living on public assistance.”
Cicero, 55 BC

MikeAdamson on July 23, 2008 at 01:24 pm

Yeah; “Imagine there are no rules or standards...”


Media uncovers more Palin stories in one weekend than Obama stories in two years. Still no bias detected

Obama: more experienced than Bristol Palin

robert108 on July 23, 2008 at 01:35 pm

The freedom to speak is indeed a utopia, not shared by many on the globe.  108, in order to protect his views, would like to see “rules” and “standards"… of his own making, of course.

Kenny got it right.


"Here lies, in honored glory, an American soldier, known but to God.”

“As a conservative, I will not be overly enthusiastic about voting for John McCain on November 4 - but I will be sprinting to the polling place to do so!”
Matthew May, conservative commentator, The American Spectator

pparets on July 23, 2008 at 02:21 pm

108, in order to protect his views, would like to see “rules” and “standards"… of his own making, of course.

You lie; I have never tried to silence you, so you tell an egregious lie; I do disagree with you, and you apparently can’t deal with that.  You seek to be the dictator, not me.  I don’t make up the definition of relevant, no matter how much you try to lie about it.


Media uncovers more Palin stories in one weekend than Obama stories in two years. Still no bias detected

Obama: more experienced than Bristol Palin

robert108 on July 23, 2008 at 02:26 pm

You couldn’t be more wrong, dd.

You know that was a ‘tongue in cheek’ comment, don’t you?  Sense of humour on vacation?


You don’t have to be a moron to be a liberal Democrat but it sure helps.

docdave on July 23, 2008 at 02:26 pm

Sense of humour on vacation?

I find nothing humorous about what has transpired on this thread.

pp: You have the freedom to speak, and I have the freedom to call you on your bullshit; ain’t that a bitch?


Media uncovers more Palin stories in one weekend than Obama stories in two years. Still no bias detected

Obama: more experienced than Bristol Palin

robert108 on July 23, 2008 at 02:27 pm

108:  I love it when you get so dramatic!

I find nothing humorous…

Your truest statement ever!  smile


"Here lies, in honored glory, an American soldier, known but to God.”

“As a conservative, I will not be overly enthusiastic about voting for John McCain on November 4 - but I will be sprinting to the polling place to do so!”
Matthew May, conservative commentator, The American Spectator

pparets on July 23, 2008 at 02:31 pm

The freedom to speak is indeed a utopia, not shared by many on the globe.

I disagree; there is nothing “utopian” about our Constitution and Founding Principles, which have set down certain rules by which we enjoy the freedom of speech we have.  Foremost among them are the limitation of the power of govt to impinge on that right.
Keeping our freedom of speech while it is attacked by bad legislation like McCain/Feingold is a constant struggle, and has nothing whatsoever to do with anything remotely resembling “utopia”.

uto·pia Listen to the pronunciation of utopia
Pronunciation:
\yu̇-ˈtō-pē-ə\
Function:
noun
Etymology:
Utopia, imaginary and ideal country in Utopia (1516) by Sir Thomas More, from Greek ou not, no + topos place
Date:
1597

1: an imaginary and indefinitely remote place
2often capitalized : a place of ideal perfection especially in laws, government, and social conditions
3: an impractical scheme for social improvement

We have something far better than an utopian fantasy here in the US; we have a workable free society, held together by laws and mutual agreements.


Media uncovers more Palin stories in one weekend than Obama stories in two years. Still no bias detected

Obama: more experienced than Bristol Palin

robert108 on July 23, 2008 at 02:38 pm

<blockquote>I find nothing humorous.../blockquote>

Again you show your dishonesty by a deceptive cherry-pick.  Shame on you!


Media uncovers more Palin stories in one weekend than Obama stories in two years. Still no bias detected

Obama: more experienced than Bristol Palin

robert108 on July 23, 2008 at 02:39 pm

Vote Democratic. Keep America Free!!!!!!!!!!!

watashiwa on July 23, 2008 at 06:38 pm
Proof
Proof
11167 comments
Send a private message

Jay Nordlinger:

“Is the Democratic party essentially socialist?”

Phil Graham:

“Yes, if by ‘socialist’ you mean the redistribution of wealth, more decisions made by the central government — no question about it. My grandmother thought of the Democrats as the party of the people. What they are is the party of government.”



For any voter trying to choose between the two candidates for commander in chief, there is no better test than this: When American strategy in a critical theater was up for grabs, John McCain proposed a highly unpopular and risky path, which he accurately predicted could lead to success. Barack Obama proposed a popular and politically safe route that would have led to an unnecessary and debilitating American defeat at the hands of al Qaeda.

Frederick W. Kagan

Proof on July 23, 2008 at 06:47 pm
Avatar for RebTex

"Vote Democratic. Keep America Free!!!!!!!!!!! “
.
.
..
And don’t forget to say it 3 times & click your little red slippers together......

RebTex on July 23, 2008 at 06:54 pm

Vote Democratic. Keep America Free!!!!!!!!!!!

from those not inclined to agree with our superior neophyte group think intellect, we’re teenaged mutant ninja turtles, neocon scum!!111!!11Eleventy!!11!!


"we should select our leaders on principle first, electability second.”

A young man whose wisdom far exceeds his years

Spartacus on July 23, 2008 at 07:02 pm

Utopian:

A place of ideal perfection especially in laws, government and social conditions.

Thanks, 108.  Couldn’t have said it better myself!  Or do you know some place better?


"Here lies, in honored glory, an American soldier, known but to God.”

“As a conservative, I will not be overly enthusiastic about voting for John McCain on November 4 - but I will be sprinting to the polling place to do so!”
Matthew May, conservative commentator, The American Spectator

pparets on July 23, 2008 at 07:25 pm

Thanks, 108. Couldn’t have said it better myself! Or do you know some place better?

Again, you cherry-pick to deceive; it has to be capitalized for that meaning.
Yes, I know a place a lot better: the United States of America.  I leave the utopian fantasies to the Marxists.


Media uncovers more Palin stories in one weekend than Obama stories in two years. Still no bias detected

Obama: more experienced than Bristol Palin

robert108 on July 23, 2008 at 08:32 pm

Generally speaking, trying to enforce an utopia requires a lot of force(the dictatorship of the proletariat, for instance) and a lot of killing.  None for me, thanks!  I’ll take reasonable rules and a realistic worldview every time.  It’s nice to know your values, though.


Media uncovers more Palin stories in one weekend than Obama stories in two years. Still no bias detected

Obama: more experienced than Bristol Palin

robert108 on July 23, 2008 at 08:34 pm

I don’t make up the definition of relevant, no matter how much you try to lie about it.

Who decides when any given comment satisfies the definition of “relevant”?


"The national budget must be balanced. The public debt must be reduced; the arrogance of the authorities must be moderated and controlled. Payments to foreign governments must be reduced if the nation doesn’t want to go bankrupt. People must again learn to work, instead of living on public assistance.”
Cicero, 55 BC

MikeAdamson on July 23, 2008 at 09:20 pm

I guess whoever reads it.  duh.


Media uncovers more Palin stories in one weekend than Obama stories in two years. Still no bias detected

Obama: more experienced than Bristol Palin

robert108 on July 23, 2008 at 10:26 pm

Voting Republican when Republican today means essentially the same thing as yesterdays’ Democrat really doesn’t give the Conservative (e.g. American) voter any true choice at all.  You have the choice of a felt-lined or cotton-lined collar, but a collar nonetheless.

And yes, it is true, there are no Conservatives (e.g. no Americans) in this cycle’s presidential ballot.  We clearly have a choice between a Black racist Marxist and a RINO.  As for me, it will be neither of the above, and voting Republican downticket in hopes for something better in 2010.

And yes, PP, is does have a meaning, and Conservative has a meaning.  It’s just that the what Republican means, now that several cohorts of RINOs have jacked the party brand, is turning out to mean, Democrat-Lite.

You folks vote however you wish.  I for one, will never give my vote to someone I can reasonably foresee will kick Conservative America in the teeth and sell whatever was meant by Republican before the RINO’s bastardized it, down the river.


...for great justice

egpzpj.jpg

Move_Zig on July 24, 2008 at 12:07 am

And where the hell is LayDownSally?

I miss that girl.


...for great justice

egpzpj.jpg

Move_Zig on July 24, 2008 at 12:10 am
Avatar for MikeAdamson

I guess whoever reads it.

I agree. smile

MikeAdamson on July 24, 2008 at 09:29 am

MikeA: IMO, this was a big distraction by pp; only Rob has the authority to dictate on this blog, so his accusation was meaningless.


Media uncovers more Palin stories in one weekend than Obama stories in two years. Still no bias detected

Obama: more experienced than Bristol Palin

robert108 on July 24, 2008 at 09:39 am
Avatar for MikeAdamson

Perhaps you’re right. I’m trying to learn to ignore declarations of irrelevance and falsehood since they’re usually made to muddy the waters.

Back on topic for a moment...Obama isn’t a Marxist because he believes in private property. I find his policies more “socialistic” than McCain’s but then I find McCain’s more “conservative” than Obama’s and I know that subject is a sore point.

MikeAdamson on July 24, 2008 at 09:49 am

MikeA:  108 regards anything not in lock-step with his views as a “big distraction”.


"Here lies, in honored glory, an American soldier, known but to God.”

“As a conservative, I will not be overly enthusiastic about voting for John McCain on November 4 - but I will be sprinting to the polling place to do so!”
Matthew May, conservative commentator, The American Spectator

pparets on July 24, 2008 at 09:50 am

MikeA:  108 regards anything not in lock-step with his views as a “big distraction”.

Another lie from you; you went off-topic, on purpose, and now you don’t have the integrity to admit it, and you continue to do the same thing.  Shame on you!


Media uncovers more Palin stories in one weekend than Obama stories in two years. Still no bias detected

Obama: more experienced than Bristol Palin

robert108 on July 24, 2008 at 09:53 am
Avatar for MikeAdamson

I didn’t find pp’s comment off topic and I’m surprised some still do.

MikeAdamson on July 24, 2008 at 09:57 am

I’m trying to learn to ignore declarations of irrelevance and falsehood since they’re usually made to muddy the waters.

Unless they’re true; there is never any excuse for not exercising discrimination.  Only the ignorant need to pre-decide.
On topic, while Stalin might have been more conservative than Karl Marx, he wasn’t a conservative.

Obama isn’t a Marxist because he believes in private property.

For himself; the ruling elite always believes in that, just not for “the proletariat”. Obama is a Marxist.  His black liberation theology is simply a black racist version of Marxism and his mentor in politics was the Marxist Saul Alinsky.  If it walks like a duck…


Media uncovers more Palin stories in one weekend than Obama stories in two years. Still no bias detected

Obama: more experienced than Bristol Palin

robert108 on July 24, 2008 at 09:59 am

So, my off-topic was

Vote Republican. Save America.

Is that what you are claiming?

"Here lies, in honored glory, an American soldier, known but to God.”

“As a conservative, I will not be overly enthusiastic about voting for John McCain on November 4 - but I will be sprinting to the polling place to do so!”
Matthew May, conservative commentator, The American Spectator

pparets on July 24, 2008 at 10:00 am

Is that what you are claiming?…

No.  I detailed it at the time, each time you did it, so you are, once again, being disingenuous here.
You keep trying to turn things into a McCain commercial, no matter what the subject of the thread.  You know you do it, I know it, and I’ll keep busting you for it, until you stop.


Media uncovers more Palin stories in one weekend than Obama stories in two years. Still no bias detected

Obama: more experienced than Bristol Palin

robert108 on July 24, 2008 at 10:15 am

pparets:

So my off-topic was “Vote Republican. Save America”. Is that what you are claiming?

Robert108:

No.

So, you’re not claiming that

Vote Republican. Save America.

was off-topic?

"Here lies, in honored glory, an American soldier, known but to God.”

“As a conservative, I will not be overly enthusiastic about voting for John McCain on November 4 - but I will be sprinting to the polling place to do so!”
Matthew May, conservative commentator, The American Spectator

pparets on July 24, 2008 at 10:21 am

The topic(and title) of this thread is: “The Sweet Illusion of Socialism”.  What pp did was to try to insert his RINO propaganda into it by trying to restate what I said at the end of the article, when I said “Vote Conservative, Save America”.  American conservatism is directly opposed to socialism(the topic of the thread), but pp’s misstatement was not.  With the present candidate supporting and even authoring bills that are directly socialistic, pp’s attempted restatement was directly wrong. He was directly going off-topic by advocating a support of socialism.  If you don’t understand that, this article is opposed to socialism, and has nothing whatsoever to do with the candidacy of John McCain.
Understand now?
Sorry I had to ‘splain that to you.


Media uncovers more Palin stories in one weekend than Obama stories in two years. Still no bias detected

Obama: more experienced than Bristol Palin

robert108 on July 24, 2008 at 10:39 am

pp: Since you missed it the first ten times I said it, here it is again: your constant hawking of McCain is the off-topic crap you spew. your constant hawking of McCain is the off-topic crap you spew. your constant hawking of McCain is the off-topic crap you spew. your constant hawking of McCain is the off-topic crap you spew. your constant hawking of McCain is the off-topic crap you spew. your constant hawking of McCain is the off-topic crap you spew.


Media uncovers more Palin stories in one weekend than Obama stories in two years. Still no bias detected

Obama: more experienced than Bristol Palin

robert108 on July 24, 2008 at 10:49 am

So, you are claiming that any support of the Republican Party is back-door support for John McCain and therefore support of socialism. 

And further, you are saying that your closing comment, “Vote Conservative. Save America”, was a reminder not to support McCain.

That being the case, then my “Vote Republican. Save America”, was not only NOT off-topic, it was a direct rebuttal of your bizarre view on this matter.

I can’t speak for you, but I have wasted enough of my time defending that which needs no defense. This blog is SAY ANYTHING.

If your ill-tempered mind-set can’t handle that, then go to Huffpo where unwanted responses can be banned.


"Here lies, in honored glory, an American soldier, known but to God.”

“As a conservative, I will not be overly enthusiastic about voting for John McCain on November 4 - but I will be sprinting to the polling place to do so!”
Matthew May, conservative commentator, The American Spectator

pparets on July 24, 2008 at 10:58 am

So, you are claiming that any support of the Republican Party is back-door support for John McCain and therefore support of socialism. No; you lie again by trying to put words in my mouth.  Support of conservative Republicans is(obviously) OK with me.  Duh.

And further, you are saying that your closing comment, “Vote Conservative. Save America”, was a reminder not to support McCain.  You lie again; I said what I meant directly, so don’t continue to lie about it.  It was an exhortation to oppose socialism in all its forms.

That being the case, then my “Vote Republican. Save America”, was not only NOT off-topic, it was a direct rebuttal of your bizarre view on this matter. It shows your support of socialism, yes.

I can’t speak for you, but I have wasted enough of my time defending that which needs no defense. This blog is SAY ANYTHING.  No rules for you!  Keep stamping your little foot and shouting that.

If your ill-tempered mind-set can’t handle that, then go to Huffpo where unwanted responses can be banned.  Actually, your style of support for socialism goes over quite well on HuffPo; they never publish my comments, because I’m no leftie.


Media uncovers more Palin stories in one weekend than Obama stories in two years. Still no bias detected

Obama: more experienced than Bristol Palin

robert108 on July 24, 2008 at 11:07 am

Despite your lies, pp, I have never tried to silence you; I just call you on your bullshit, and will always do that.  Get used to it.


Media uncovers more Palin stories in one weekend than Obama stories in two years. Still no bias detected

Obama: more experienced than Bristol Palin

robert108 on July 24, 2008 at 11:08 am

pp: In your hypocrisy, you want to use “say anything” as cover for your bullshit, but object strenuously to my “saying anything”.  Why do you do that?


Media uncovers more Palin stories in one weekend than Obama stories in two years. Still no bias detected

Obama: more experienced than Bristol Palin

robert108 on July 24, 2008 at 11:12 am

Sorry; that should be: “off-topic bullshit”.


Media uncovers more Palin stories in one weekend than Obama stories in two years. Still no bias detected

Obama: more experienced than Bristol Palin

robert108 on July 24, 2008 at 11:13 am

pparets:

Vote Republican. Save America.

robert108:

He was directly going off-topic by advocating a support of socialism.


"Here lies, in honored glory, an American soldier, known but to God.”

“As a conservative, I will not be overly enthusiastic about voting for John McCain on November 4 - but I will be sprinting to the polling place to do so!”
Matthew May, conservative commentator, The American Spectator

pparets on July 24, 2008 at 11:19 am

pp: Once again, you cherry-pick to deceive.  I guess the whole truth doesn’t serve your agenda.  Very revealing.


Media uncovers more Palin stories in one weekend than Obama stories in two years. Still no bias detected

Obama: more experienced than Bristol Palin

robert108 on July 24, 2008 at 11:29 am

pparets: 

Vote Republican. Save America.

robert108:

He was going directly off-topic by advocating a support of socialism.


"Here lies, in honored glory, an American soldier, known but to God.”

“As a conservative, I will not be overly enthusiastic about voting for John McCain on November 4 - but I will be sprinting to the polling place to do so!”
Matthew May, conservative commentator, The American Spectator

pparets on July 24, 2008 at 11:36 am

Will America hold to the principles of capitalism and free enterprise or will it embrace elements of socialism, Marxism and communism? Those are our choices.

Since McCain, and some Republicans, support elements of socialism, in the form of big govt control of the economy, along with the socialistic redistribution of income through taxation and social spending, a vote for just any Republican is not a vote to save America.  Only a vote for conservative Republican candidates is a vote to save America from creeping socialism.  McCain and his RINOs are the wrong choice.


Media uncovers more Palin stories in one weekend than Obama stories in two years. Still no bias detected

Obama: more experienced than Bristol Palin

robert108 on July 24, 2008 at 11:39 am

Robert108 is a paranoid dictator.
He sees attacks when none exist, and dictates that the only truth comes out of his mouth.
Go to Myanmar old man. You will be a perfect compliment for the Junta as the information minister.

ellinas on July 24, 2008 at 11:54 am

e liar: Your lack of truthfulness is noted.  Unlike you, I don’t dictate to anyone; I will continue to call you lefties on your bullshit, though.
If you ever have any actual facts or logic, please feel free to use them, though.  It would be nice if you had something other than your usual paranoid, self-serving, victimhood crap.


Media uncovers more Palin stories in one weekend than Obama stories in two years. Still no bias detected

Obama: more experienced than Bristol Palin

robert108 on July 24, 2008 at 12:06 pm

Since McCain, and some Republicans, support elements of socialism, in the form of big govt control of the economy, along with the socialistic redistribution of income through taxation and social spending, a vote for just any Republican is not a vote to save America.

Wouldn’t it make more sense for conservatives to start their own party since the Republicans appear too moderate to accomodate “conservatism”? I recognise that it’s easier to operate within existing vehicles but it seems to me that conservatives would guarantee themselves a candidate who reflects their views and you wouldn’t have to deal with the “drifting to the middle” problem.


"The national budget must be balanced. The public debt must be reduced; the arrogance of the authorities must be moderated and controlled. Payments to foreign governments must be reduced if the nation doesn’t want to go bankrupt. People must again learn to work, instead of living on public assistance.”
Cicero, 55 BC

MikeAdamson on July 24, 2008 at 12:20 pm
Avatar for Ken

PP and r108 are still at it? Can we all just vote for a winner and get this over with?

Ken on July 24, 2008 at 12:26 pm

Ken: Haha!  If you vote for me, I’ll give you a Socialist Worker’s Paradise! Or better yet, I’ll supply you with women, booze and money.  smile


"Here lies, in honored glory, an American soldier, known but to God.”

“As a conservative, I will not be overly enthusiastic about voting for John McCain on November 4 - but I will be sprinting to the polling place to do so!”
Matthew May, conservative commentator, The American Spectator

pparets on July 24, 2008 at 12:41 pm

Ken: I’m alive today because, on countless occasions, I prevailed, and the other guy ended up horizontal.  That was in the real world, where there are very real and permanent consequences.  I’m certainly not going to surrender(especially when I’m right) in this fantasy world.  You, on the other hand, can do anything you like, but I would remind you that the truth isn’t arbitrary.

Mike: An interesting comment, and I understand your point of view.  In practice, however, two Parties are all we need, and the makeup of those Parties generally reflect the aggregate of the political and ideological realities of the nation in microcosm.  Splitting into multiple Parties, each with it’s little limited agenda, is a characteristic of socialism, and is wisely avoided, IMO.  The Dem Party has changed, in my lifetime, from a Party that represented American ideas and principles from a slightly different perspective, into the Party of Eurosocialism, or worse.  This too shall pass.  One of the consequences of that change, high gasoline prices, has already mobilized the American public, and there will be more to follow.  Since American conservatism represents the Constitution and Founding Principles of the US, it is, and always will be, the default position for this country.  There will always be flirtations with other ideologies that seem to promise something for nothing, but in the end, what has worked for us will prevail.


Media uncovers more Palin stories in one weekend than Obama stories in two years. Still no bias detected

Obama: more experienced than Bristol Palin

robert108 on July 24, 2008 at 01:08 pm
Avatar for Ken

Ken: Haha!  If you vote for me, I’ll give you a Socialist Worker’s Paradise! Or better yet, I’ll supply you with women, booze and money.

Done!

I’m alive today because, on countless occasions, I prevailed, and the other guy ended up horizontal.  That was in the real world, where there are very real and permanent consequences.

Judging by the amount you post here, I doubt very much that you’re familiar with the “real world”.

I’m certainly not going to surrender(especially when I’m right) in this fantasy world.

Do you see what you’re making a big deal about:

Vote Republican. Save America.

Pretty lame.

Ken on July 24, 2008 at 01:33 pm
Avatar for Ken

I’m alive today because, on countless occasions, I prevailed, and the other guy ended up horizontal.

Okay, so you’re the “pitcher” then.