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Thursday, July 24, 2008

The Reality of Marxism/Socialism/Communism

"If you’re not the lead dog(the ruling elite), the view is always the same." Paranthetic mine.

Comments

108:  Where’s the post?


"Here lies, in honored glory, an American soldier, known but to God.”

“Glory is not a conceit. It is not a decoration for valor. Glory belongs to the act of being constant to something greater than yourself, to a cause, to your principles, to the people on whom you rely, and who rely on you in return.”
Senator John McCain, Faith of Our fathers

pparets on July 24, 2008 at 11:56 am

It’s an old bit of wisdom from the frozen North, and describes the plight of a typical sled dog.  It’s a bit subtle for some, I guess.
To ‘splain it to you: when you’re not the lead dog(the ruling elite) in a socialist/Marxist/communist system, your view is always of a bunch of asses.  Your nose is always up someone’s butt.  If you need further explanation, let me know.


Hope and change, in a free world, are the private possessions of motivated individuals.

robert108 on July 24, 2008 at 12:04 pm

Oops.  Maybe the one sentence is the post?


"Here lies, in honored glory, an American soldier, known but to God.”

“Glory is not a conceit. It is not a decoration for valor. Glory belongs to the act of being constant to something greater than yourself, to a cause, to your principles, to the people on whom you rely, and who rely on you in return.”
Senator John McCain, Faith of Our fathers

pparets on July 24, 2008 at 12:05 pm

Oh.  Interesting.  Knew that old saw years ago.  Thought it was a personal observation of yours following a larger text.


"Here lies, in honored glory, an American soldier, known but to God.”

“Glory is not a conceit. It is not a decoration for valor. Glory belongs to the act of being constant to something greater than yourself, to a cause, to your principles, to the people on whom you rely, and who rely on you in return.”
Senator John McCain, Faith of Our fathers

pparets on July 24, 2008 at 12:06 pm

I’ll put it in quotes for you; I just don’t remember who said it, but it was undoubtedly originally a quotation, I’m sure.  It just seemed to me to sum up the outcome of those ideologies rather elegantly.


Hope and change, in a free world, are the private possessions of motivated individuals.

robert108 on July 24, 2008 at 12:10 pm

108:  Thanks, but not necessary.  I just thought some larger text had failed to upload.


"Here lies, in honored glory, an American soldier, known but to God.”

“Glory is not a conceit. It is not a decoration for valor. Glory belongs to the act of being constant to something greater than yourself, to a cause, to your principles, to the people on whom you rely, and who rely on you in return.”
Senator John McCain, Faith of Our fathers

pparets on July 24, 2008 at 12:13 pm

I have more coming on different aspects of how socialism/Marxism/communism is threatening our country, and some of it might contain more text than this one.  I can guarantee it, as a matter of fact.


Hope and change, in a free world, are the private possessions of motivated individuals.

robert108 on July 24, 2008 at 01:09 pm

I am reminded of Robert Michels’ Iron Law of Oligarchy

It states that all forms of organization, regardless of how democratic or autocratic they may be at the start, will eventually and inevitably develop into oligarchies. The reasons for this are the technical indispensability of leadership, the tendency of the leaders to organize themselves and to consolidate their interests; the gratitude of the led towards the leaders, and the general immobility and passivity of the masses.

Truer words were never spoken IMO and the iron law helps explain my position in the big mushy middle.


Conservatives are not necessarily stupid, but most stupid people are conservatives.

John Stuart Mill

MikeAdamson on July 24, 2008 at 09:17 pm

Truer words were never spoken IMO and the iron law helps explain my position in the big mushy middle.

That might be true for the Euros and other socialist countries, where they have been bred to be submissive to big govt for generations, but we’re different here in the US.  It’s all that individual independence stuff.  That’s why you lefties hate it, as well as free market economics.  It just encourages individual independence by rewarding it with prosperity.
It’s a real dilemma for those trying to sell socialism.


Hope and change, in a free world, are the private possessions of motivated individuals.

robert108 on July 24, 2008 at 11:54 pm

BTW, Mike, American conservatives are the true moderates, being in the middle between the authoritarianism of both the Left and the Right.  You’re just another leftie, hedging your bets.


Hope and change, in a free world, are the private possessions of motivated individuals.

robert108 on July 24, 2008 at 11:58 pm

That might be true for the Euros and other socialist countries, where they have been bred to be submissive to big govt for generations, but we’re different here in the US.

And Vive le difference I say. I wouldn’t be too quick to dismiss Michels’ applicability to the American case...it helps explain why your conservatism has such difficulty achieving power in Washington for example and why the “political class” is so resistant to rocking the boat, whether the rocking be from the right or the left.

BTW, Mike, American conservatives are the true moderates, being in the middle between the authoritarianism of both the Left and the Right.

My view is different...I see the left as favouring an active State while the right favours less intrusion although it’s definitely not as clear cut as it used to be. I’ve observed that the right/left framework has lost a lot of its utility over the years as the powers that be have generally accepted the more active State. There are still degrees of intervention of course and there will always be too little or too much depending on one’s orientation.

The effective death of socialism as an organising principle has really changed the left/right dynamic and I don’t believe that our terminology and categories have changed to accommodate reality.

All IMO.


Conservatives are not necessarily stupid, but most stupid people are conservatives.

John Stuart Mill

MikeAdamson on July 25, 2008 at 07:17 am

My view is different...I see the left as favouring an active State while the right favours less intrusion although it’s definitely not as clear cut
as it used to be.

Only if you change the definition of “right”; it has always represented centralized govt power, either a monarchy or military dictatorship.  The real “right-wing” in this country is represented by the Black Muslims and NeoNazis, to mention two examples.  American Conservatives, who embrace individual independence, personal, economic, religious and political freedom, along with an economic system featuring “free people making free choices” is hardly “right-wing”, is it?


Hope and change, in a free world, are the private possessions of motivated individuals.

robert108 on July 25, 2008 at 08:46 am

The effective death of socialism as an organising principle has really changed the left/right dynamic and I don’t believe that our terminology and categories have changed to accommodate reality.

Mike,

“The death of Socialism as an organising principle” is a “reality” in your view?

I daresay, the convenience of that assertion for those of you on the Left, far outweighs its accuracy.


“Poverty of goods is easily cured; poverty of the mind is irreparable.”

Bat One on July 25, 2008 at 10:02 am

r108...I agree that American conservatives tend closer to the centre than do the Black Muslims and Neo-nazis and I think that your example highlights the inadequacy of the right/left framework.

B1...unless I’m reading it wrong that is an odd statement for you to make. Perhaps “death” is too absolute and final a metaphor for me to use but I hope you’re not suggesting that socialism’s fires still burn brightly somewhere.


Conservatives are not necessarily stupid, but most stupid people are conservatives.

John Stuart Mill

MikeAdamson on July 25, 2008 at 10:21 am

...the inadequacy of the right/left framework.

I think it has been rendered ineffective by the relentless leftie propaganda that seeks to control by redefining everything to suit its agenda.
For instance, leftie totalitarians have hijacked both “liberal” and “progressive” to describe themselves, whereas American conservatives actually fit the original definition of “liberal”, in espousing freedom of all kinds.
The promise of socialism/Marxism/communism is security, guaranteed by an all-powerful State, at the price of individual liberty and free choice.
I don’t consider that there is a real “middle ground” there.  You’re either essentially free, or you’re not.


Hope and change, in a free world, are the private possessions of motivated individuals.

robert108 on July 25, 2008 at 10:43 am
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