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Sunday, February 11, 2007

The Domestic Consequences of a US Defeat in Iraq

An opinion piece by robert108


Instead of focusing on the consequences of our retreating from Iraq to the Iraqis and the rest of the Middle East, let’s consider its effect on the United States:


Muslim advocacy groups have claimed that there are somewhere between 6 million to 8 million Muslims in the United States. It is probable that this number is inaccurate, and that there are fewer Muslims than that residing here. For the purposes of this discussion, let’s assume that there are only 1 million Muslims living in the US at this time.


Furthermore, although most sources claim that the percentage of Muslims who are radical Jihadists compose about 20% of the overall Muslim population, for the purposes of this discussion, we will assume that only 10% of the US Muslim population is dedicated to violent jihad against all infidels.


One other assumption: to use the Bell Curve analysis, then, we would also assume that there is another 10% of the US Muslim population that is completely loyal to the US and our way of life, and has not interest in imposing Islam on anyone else, no matter how dedicated they are to their religious beliefs.


So far, in this very conservative estimate, we have about 100,000 radical Jihadists here in the US, and another 100,000 Muslims who totally support the US as it is. That leaves 800,000 US Muslims who are “sitting on the fence”, in terms of who they support. Even though they might not advocate violence to impose Islam on the rest of us, they might be OK with a political or legal takeover. At best, they are ambivalent; while they aren’t into violent jihad, they might think that their way is best, and that the US would be better off if we all converted to Islam or if we had to live under Islamic law and customs.


In light of these numbers, what might be the consequences of a defeat for the US in the Middle East? If we end up withdrawing from Iraq due to being unable(or unwilling) to defeat the terrorists, which way might those 800,000 “fence sitters” be inclined to go? Wouldn’t it be reasonable to suppose that they might be influenced to become more radical? If the US appears to be unable to defeat Islamic terrorism, wouldn’t that encourage more participation in jihad among the “moderate” Muslim population?


Even though we have assumed that there are a population of 100,000 US Muslims that are completely loyal to America, as far as I know, there is no evidence that such a group exists. Logic would tell us that there must be some US Muslims who are immune to the call of violent jihad, but they are not making themselves known in any definite manner. There have been no antijihadist demonstrations here, and I question whether there are many instances where Muslims loyal to the US have actively turned in the violent ones in their midst.


It is also unnecessary to assume that the 80% who are “fence-sitters” will become violent jihadists and start making beheading videos, strapping bombs on children, and all the rest. They may choose to defeat us quietly, by becoming school board members, local politicians, policemen and policewomen, judges, members of Congress(Keith Ellison) and even President(Barack Hussein Obama?). Since the Consitution is now a “living document”, in the view of some Americans, and since it is no longer necessary to convene a Constitutional Convention to amend it in practice, the way is clear for a gradual political takeover by those who would like the US to be a Muslim country. We might even be told that “Affirmative Action” should apply to Muslims, thus guaranteeing them a quota in many govt institutions. I’m sure there are ACLU lawyers ready to draw up those briefs, should the need arise. The borders are open, and what is to stop an influx of Muslim immigrants, legal and otherwise? We have already set the precedent for such an invasion.


One more thought: If there is a political takeover of the US by radical Islam, what happens to those Muslims who are not sympathetic to the jihadists? Ultimately, won’t they be forced to join the killers to avoid being killed themselves?


Oh, yes; those numbers in the fourth paragraph of the article; multiply them by a factor of 3 or 4 to get a sense of the real problem.


What sort of America do we want?

Comments

If anything like

10% of the US Muslim population is dedicated to violent jihad against all infidels.

our cities would be in flames and we would be under martial law .

WOOF on February 11, 2007 at 05:49 pm

our cities would be in flames and we would be under martial law .
WOOF on February 11, 2007 at 08:49 pm

The nation has become more secure because the intelligence apparatus has been revamped, states and cities have received more funding for homeland security, and security has been bolstered at targets like airports.

From what is now known, it appears that well-placed undercover agents and extensive electronic surveillance can largely be credited with the recent apprehension in England of scores of suspects who authorities say were planning to blow up as many as ten airliners on their way to the United States.

These same investigative tools also appear to have been important in uncovering evidence indicating that a Pakistani charity may have been diverting funds originally contributed for earthquake relief to finance the planned terrorism attacks on the jumbo jets.


“The greatest tyrannies are always perpetrated in the name of the noblest causes.”—The condition upon which God hath given liberty to man is eternal vigilance; which condition if he break, servitude is at once the consequence of his crime and the punishment of his guilt.”

Joel on February 11, 2007 at 06:13 pm

Even a thought exercise about the US being a Muslim state is a joke. Really. Give your country some more credit. Traitor.


rasberry

Sparkie Arbuckle on February 11, 2007 at 07:12 pm

Even a thought exercise about the US being a Muslim state is a joke. Really. Give your country some more credit. Traitor.

As usual, Sparkie, you demonstrate your profound ignorance.  It’s not a joke(Keith Ellison, Barack Hussein Obama?).  We are being desensitized and “civil righted” into accepting the jihadhi lifestyle as something normal.  They are teaching Islam in our public schools, and some schools force students to dress as Muslims and roleplay as Muslims.  Believe me, you are the joke!


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robert108 on February 11, 2007 at 07:53 pm

R108
The fact that you don’t think its a joke and that you think you can get some kind of mileage or backslapping out of this bullshit, paranoid, ethno-centrist post is laughable. If you think Ellison and Obama are gonna take over your white, Christian country… you’re fucking crazy. Period. No wiggle room where your concerns might be justified. You are a nut. I thought I was bad. Jesus. What do you suggest we do? Ban Muslims from office? (Retard.) Kill them in public to satiate the wishes of our patriotic blood-lusting masses? OBAMA ISN’T EVEN A MUSLIM. What’s he gonna do? Disgrace your God by not having transparent enough skin? Offer some substance in the place of hate and paranoia and I’ll give you some credit. Even your hypothetical numbers are crap. You think the Dems are so complacent they will allow a Muslim revolution from within? Ha! Dig yourself out of the stupid-hole you’ve fallen into, join reality, and maybe we’ll go from there. I thought some of I knew some paranoid people, but then again none of them is actually bracing for a Muslim insurrection domestically!?! Better stock up on ammo. Kook.


rasberry

Sparkie Arbuckle on February 12, 2007 at 06:26 am

Furthermore, invoking Obama’s middle name as some kind of evidence that he’s part of your hypothetical domestic insurrection is laughable. It almost makes me feel sorry for you. Dumbass.


rasberry

Sparkie Arbuckle on February 12, 2007 at 06:27 am

Watch out for the Hispanics too. They are getting elected more and more and even becoming Attorney General. Soon it’ll be guayavedas filling up the congress with fruit selling catholics! Sweet JESUS grab your guns! They reproduce like crazy and don’t even speak English! Miami and most of the southern states have already fallen to this silent insurrection. Hurry, come up to a northern state and join your Aryan, protestant brethren in arms to protect God, Jesus, and the US of A from these insane landscapers taking over the place.

PS - You are a kook.


rasberry

Sparkie Arbuckle on February 12, 2007 at 06:36 am

Kookie Sparkie: 

Furthermore, invoking Obama’s middle name as some kind of evidence that he’s part of your hypothetical domestic insurrection is laughable. It almost makes me feel sorry for you. Dumbass.

If you had any intelligence you would understand why I put a question mark after Hussein Obama’s name.  Duh.

I seem to have pulled the string on your hate reservoir with this one.  I agree with Ann Coulter that if I’m not making leftie heads explode, I’m not doing it right.  Glad to see I’m right on target.


Media uncovers more Palin stories in one weekend than Obama stories in two years. Still no bias detected

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robert108 on February 12, 2007 at 07:45 pm

What do you suggest we do?

Win in Iraq.  I thought that was obvious from the title of the piece, but I keep overestimating your intelligence, I guess.


Media uncovers more Palin stories in one weekend than Obama stories in two years. Still no bias detected

Obama: more experienced than Bristol Palin

robert108 on February 12, 2007 at 07:47 pm

Has our country ever been known to back out or cut and run? We are winners not losers…

Zsa Zsa on February 12, 2007 at 08:09 pm

Has our country ever been known to back out or cut and run? We are winners not losers…

Well, ZZ, the Conservatives are winners, but I’m not so sure about the rest.  The Dems are definitely losers, at least when it comes to economic and military success.  They seem to prefer defeat and stagnation over victory and growth.


Media uncovers more Palin stories in one weekend than Obama stories in two years. Still no bias detected

Obama: more experienced than Bristol Palin

robert108 on February 12, 2007 at 08:29 pm

Zsa Zsa,

“America loves a winner, and will not tolerate a loser, this is why America has never, and will never, lose a war.”
—Gen. George S. Patton

I am ashamed to say we have cut and run—often.  It’s a fairly recent phenomenon though.  In the days of Madison, we went to war against the English who were seizing American citizens off our ships for service in the Queen’s Navy.  We weren’t ready for war, but we went. 

When the pirates from the Med plundered our shipping and demanded tribute, we went to war, even though we were a fledgling nation.

The same was true when we fought Mexico and later Spain, Germany, and Japan.

But starting the the 1960’s, at the hands of the Demoncrats, we cut the South Vietnamese loose, as well as the Cambodians and Laotians, whom the communists slaughtered.  We did it again in Rhodesia, SW Africa, and the RSA, and to some extent , in Angola and Mozambique.  Iran, Nicaragua and now the Demoncrats are doing it again in Iraq. 

There are many other little allies we have betrayed by cutting and running, leaving them to the communist hyenas. Almost every Eastern European country rose up against the communists, pleading for the Americans to intervene, and we did not.  Not too long ago, it could be said that Bush senior encouraged the Kurds to rise up against Saddam Hussain.  When they did, we did nothing and Saddam used gas and napalm in a campaign of eradication against them.

Other countries know this and are justifiably leery of having the US as an ally, since support blows hot and cold, depending upon who is in power.


...for great justice

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Move_Zig on February 12, 2007 at 08:47 pm

For Sparkie: (ripped from the pages of Say Anything)

Barack Obama Admits That He’s A Muslim Apostate
By Rob on February 11, 2007 at 07:59 pm
22 Comments Trackbacks Off

Interesting…

Democratic presidential candidate Barack Obama said Sunday he does not think voters have a litmus test on religion, whether evangelical Christianity or his childhood years in the Muslim faith.

“If your name is Barack Hussein Obama, you can expect it, some of that. I think the majority of voters know that I’m a member of the United Church of Christ, and that I take my faith seriously,” Obama said in an interview with The Associated Press.

Being an atheist, I’m more concerned about what Obama’s tax policies would be rather than what brand of religious mythology he buys in to, but Charles Johnson brings up a good point related to foreign policy:

Now that the Associated Press has given this fact their blessing, it does raise a rather uncomfortable question for a man who wants to be the commander in chief of the United States. The penalty under well-established shari’a law for apostasy—leaving Islam—is death. How would the world’s 249 gazillion Muslims react to having an American president who is also a Muslim apostate?

Who knows.

Is it possible for them to hate us more than they do already?


Media uncovers more Palin stories in one weekend than Obama stories in two years. Still no bias detected

Obama: more experienced than Bristol Palin

robert108 on February 12, 2007 at 11:14 pm

R108
You have not changed my mind. If you are bracing for a Muslim insurrection in the US then you are a paranoid kook. You are not giving your country enough credit and you are more of a traitor than all the leftards combined.


rasberry

Sparkie Arbuckle on February 13, 2007 at 05:06 am

So, being aware that Muslims bring unrest and violence to every country they live in is being a traitor? That is unique.


Una Salus Victus Nullam Sperare Salutem

2Hotel9 on February 13, 2007 at 05:29 am

Hahahahhhhhhha! That is unique! Sorry, but that is too funny…

It seems too many liberals are eager for the USA to look like losers? ...

Zsa Zsa on February 13, 2007 at 06:17 am

R108
You have not changed my mind. Then you think it would be just fine if we are defeated in Iraq?  Reread the title of this post, then see if you can make any relevant comments.  So far, you don’t seem to have even an elementary understanding of what I wrote. If you are bracing for a Muslim insurrection in the US No, once again, this is about possible consequences of a defeat for the US in Iraq, like the Dems and you lefties want.  Reread the title of the article. then you are a paranoid kook. You are not giving your country enough credit and you are more of a traitor than all the leftards combined. You make no sense, as usual.


Media uncovers more Palin stories in one weekend than Obama stories in two years. Still no bias detected

Obama: more experienced than Bristol Palin

robert108 on February 13, 2007 at 08:43 pm
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