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Saturday, May 17, 2008

The Conservative Dilemma

The Regan Era will be twenty years past in the next few months. A quarter of all Americans were not alive during his presidency. The brief exhilarating conservative sweep of congress in 1994 has faded, it’s Contract With America tarnished by later events. In the intervening years, a war has come, but not gone. Government spending and power has grown exponentially and social issues - unthinkable a few years ago - dominate the headlines: gay marriage, open borders and unlimited access to abortion. And for the first time in our history, a religion has become a potential enemy.

Nearing the summer of 2008, conservatives look to the future, not with optimism, but with genuine consternation. For many, the coming election spells doom in one form or another with the near certain expansion of a liberal majority in congress and the unhappy prospect of no presidential candidate they can support or put trust in.

It is the year of the conservative dilemma.

It’s symptoms are evident on every talk show, in the media and on the blogs. Conservatives speak openly of boycotting the election, voting for obscure candidates like Bob Barr, even forming a third party; hoping - in a replay of the twilight of the gods - for a democratic sweep which might later usher in a resurgent conservative movement and avoid blame for whatever ills occur in the meantime.

They loath Barack Obama and Hillary Clinton and describe John McCain with the kind of language usually reserved for people who cut in line or splash muddy water as they drive by.

It is the Gotterdammerung theory - let the GOP and it’s untrustworthy candidate crash and burn in the hopes of a better tomorrow - which many, myself included, find most troubling. It borders on the “If I can’t have it, no one will” mode of nihilism which may satisfy one’s angst, but can guarantee nothing better in the future. It is, in effect, the elevation of political philosophy above national interest, and it assumes, naively, that the damage done over the next 48 to 96 months can be undone by a future conservative government. It is a reckless theory which ignores the fact that social security is nearing it’s 75th anniversary and no one has been able to undo it.

No aspect of the conservative dilemma is more troubling than the future of the Supreme Court, the one branch of government which serves as a political and social time capsule, projecting the values of one generation into the future to be imposed on the next.

Should Barack Obama and a liberal congress persevere for eight years, the makeup and character of the high court - not to mention hundreds of lesser federal bench appointments - could continue on an activist course for the next 25 years or more. The 9th Circuit comes to mind.

For conservatives, there exists a myriad of reasons not to vote for John McCain. But it may be worth noting that McCain has vowed never to nominate an activist judge to the bench and vigorously supported the appointment of John Roberts and Samuel Alito to the high court.

As president, he would face a hostile senate, but so did George Bush when Roberts and Alito were confirmed. Barack Obama, on the other hand, would have a liberal senate at his disposal and has stated - in vague and ominous terms - his preference for “compassionate judges who understand the needs of regular people.” In short, the very future of the Supreme Court and the sanctity of the Constitution are at stake in 2008.

So, what to do? There’s the dilemma. Choose wisely.

pparets 17 May 2008

Comments

Nicely written, but you sound like a John Kerry/Patrick Leahy hybrid. Which by the way is foolhardy, because a hybrid normally consists of the best parts from each contributor, and in this case you and the corresponding parts to the hybrid have nothing to offer.

Instead you do as you’ve done in the past; spin things to make your ideas seem reasonable and those who disagree must want the worst for America.

You have absolutely no way of knowing what kind of judges McCain would appoint to the supreme court. Or, if by chance they were staunch conservatives, how he would get them nominated by what will surely be an overwhelming Democratic congress.

Before you launch into your oft tried and tired argument of “…we all know who Obama will appoint…”, let me add you don’t know that either. The appointees of either candidate would probably be inclined to the left, whether by ideology or swayed by public opinion.

I’m not whinning about the lack of choices we’ve had during the election cycle, merely pointing it out. Thompson, Rudy, Romney or the Huckster would have been marginally better in too few ways. If I have a complaint, it would be that lack of perception and involvement on the part of most Americans that would allow those of such dubious character to be candidates in the first place.


“To love is not to stare steadfast at one another...it is to look forward, in the same direction.”
Saint-Exupéry

laydownSally on May 17, 2008 at 10:18 pm

LDS: Other than your typically condescending and cynical analysis, you spelled whining wrong.


"Here lies, in honored glory, an American soldier, known but to God.”

The stakes are high. Whether the issue is the economy, or energy, or the federal courts or national security, the right answers are coming not from the Democrats, but from the Republicans. The surge of operations that began a year ago is succeeding. The only way to lose this fight is to quit. Richard M. Cheney, Vice President, 30 May, 2008

pparets on May 17, 2008 at 10:29 pm
Avatar for HG

If I have a complaint, it would be that lack of perception and involvement on the part of most Americans that would allow those of such dubious character to be candidates in the first place.

This is where we are at in America.  I’m asking myself if the union can be saved given deeply entrenched liberalism, apathy among the majority of Americans, and a scarcity of wisdom among professing conservatives. With or without McCain in the whitehouse, the country is trending towards more and more socialism and of course less and less liberty.

HG on May 17, 2008 at 11:00 pm

This"allow those of such dubious character to be candidates in the first place.” sums McC up perfectly.


Una Salus Victus Nullam Sperare Salutem

2Hotel9 on May 18, 2008 at 04:54 am

2hotel9:  No argument there. But if you read my post, I point out again and again that McCain is suspect. 

It is the Supreme Court which is the focus of my concern.


"Here lies, in honored glory, an American soldier, known but to God.”

The stakes are high. Whether the issue is the economy, or energy, or the federal courts or national security, the right answers are coming not from the Democrats, but from the Republicans. The surge of operations that began a year ago is succeeding. The only way to lose this fight is to quit. Richard M. Cheney, Vice President, 30 May, 2008

pparets on May 18, 2008 at 06:23 am

LDS: Other than your typically condescending and cynical analysis, you spelled whining wrong.

You tend to be condescending when people disagree with you about: McCain, video games, stats, etc.

Regardless, your two continued reasons for supporting McCain are the following:

1. The war in Iraq.
As I have pointed out repeatedly, neither Clinton nore Obama will pull out. And once a Dem president takes control there will be no more votes on the matter from the left.

2. Supreme Court
McCain was strongly critical of Alito, calling him too conservative. There is simply no reason to believe that a pro-amnesty, anti-tax cuts, pro-Roe vs Wade, pro-global warming, anti-drilling, overall liberal candidate would appoint Constitutionalists, conservatives, or even non-activist judges. The best we can hope for with McCain is mushy moderate judges who are as “maverick” as McCain.

Kenny on May 18, 2008 at 03:29 pm

HG,

...the country is trending towards more and more socialism and of course less and less liberty.

A concern that has slipped by too many in their quest to retain a republican in La Casa Blanca.

I know you have been, on the margins, a McCain supporter. So be it. I’m not trying to convince anyone to sit this out or vote otherwise.

I hope I’m around to see the country make a right ( and correct) turn, but it ain’t gonna happen with McCain. The only possible correction in course must be for conservatives to distance themselves from liberal republicans, who votes are cast to placate the masses. They absolutely must begin voting their conscience: smaller government, less taxes, freedom to live outside the tyranny of liberal demagogues who with every passing piece of legislation tell you how, when, and where to live your life.

My God…when will they grow a spine. It is the republicans we voted into office the past decades that have given us the reputation we now well deserve. Gutless.

Can you imagine even the most liberal politician of the last mid-century allowing fighters from a hostile country to cross borders and kill our soldiers without the slightest retaliation. Could they have envisioned a day when marijuana would be sold from vending machines accessible and in full view of our children. Would they have passed laws which abrogate victims rights in favor of the criminals.

How much further to the left can we go before we doom ourselves to the horrors experienced by what was once our strong European allies. We’ve let the credo of tolerance, diversity and sustainability become so ubiquitous that we’ve ignored common sense. We let the less qualified hold positions of importance, lest we become seen as less diverse. We refuse to drill for oil, all the while complaining that our enemies our benefiting from our purchases. Does any of that make any sense???


“To love is not to stare steadfast at one another...it is to look forward, in the same direction.”
Saint-Exupéry

laydownSally on May 18, 2008 at 06:16 pm

HG: 

… a scarcity of wisdom among professing conservatives…

I like what you had to say a lot, and I share your dread.

But, I don’t think a scarcity of widsom is the problem for conservatives.

I think one problem is that for a long time we thought ourselves to be much greater in number than we really are.  So many people talked-the-talk when the conservatives took congress in 1994 that many of us actually began to believe that a majority of Americans might really be on our side. Unfortunately, most did not walk-the-walk.

Beyond that, conservatives frequently [and perhaps justifiably] marginalize themselves because of their firm conviction that any compromise is a sell-out.

But, hope is not lost. We will have to grit our teeth through the next four years and, in the meantime, resell conservatism to the American people. We did it before, we can do it again.


"Here lies, in honored glory, an American soldier, known but to God.”

The stakes are high. Whether the issue is the economy, or energy, or the federal courts or national security, the right answers are coming not from the Democrats, but from the Republicans. The surge of operations that began a year ago is succeeding. The only way to lose this fight is to quit. Richard M. Cheney, Vice President, 30 May, 2008

pparets on May 18, 2008 at 06:42 pm
Avatar for HG

Does any of that make any sense???

Only to the goons on the left.

HG on May 18, 2008 at 08:15 pm
Avatar for HG

Pparets,

Wisdom does not behave like our party leaders.  Wisdom is not apathetic to the atrocity that is abortion.  Wisdom does not seek to find common ground on environmental madness.  Wisdom is not the absence of leadership. 

History will judge us harshly for this, and rightly so.

HG on May 18, 2008 at 08:21 pm

… resell conservatism to the American people. We did it before, we can do it again.

That’s good for a laugh. Did you even read what HG had to say.

With or without McCain in the whitehouse, the country is trending towards more and more socialism…

And who do you propose to make this sales pitch; people like yourself, ardent supporters of McCain?

When the environmentalists (who are in a win/win situation) start slapping themselves on the back, as you like to do, because they are given credence by what independents and liberals surely conceive as a “conservative” president, who’s going to be the first to say “Well we (the real conservatives) never really considered McCain as one of us.”

That will come across like another bunch of mealy-mouthed, take-no-responsibility republicans that they have grown to despise and mistrust. All blame for our future woes will be placed squarely in the laps of all conservatives…right, I might add, where it belongs.

“…resell conservatism…” . You might as well try and catch the wind. This “movement” will be confined to a smoke-filled kiosk selling worn out pictures of the dear departed to the only graduate in the Pparets School for Informative Misconceptions, the founder who has long since left his establishment to carry water for next liberal incumbent.


“To love is not to stare steadfast at one another...it is to look forward, in the same direction.”
Saint-Exupéry

laydownSally on May 18, 2008 at 10:38 pm

But, hope is not lost. We will have to grit our teeth through the next four years and, in the meantime, resell conservatism to the American people. We did it before, we can do it again.

Well, we’re doing a piss poor job so far! Come vote for us! We’re Democrat lite! (I said that years before James Carville so he can shove off)

We will penalize you for non-existant global warming, fund embryonic stem cell research, and do other liberal stuff! But we believe in an unpopular war, and lower taxes, which the average American thinks are driving up the debt! Vote for us!

What a winner.

Kenny on May 18, 2008 at 11:12 pm

I don’t see McCain as a Conservative.

I see that he sells himself as a Conservative and enjoys that position particularly by the ability to aim his knives at his fellow Republicans’ exposed backs.

If we are to keep the GOP/RNC/ Republican Party as anything resembling a symbol of Conservative, Middle American values, there has to be a cutoff point beyond which a ‘maverick’ can no longer realistically call himself a Conservative. 

McCain has spent far too much time shooting from the Left side of the aisle into Republican ranks to qualify him as anything other than an inchoate Jeffords.

I question the knowledge, motives and Conservative credentials of anyone who agrees with him, since he has long since kicked Conservative principles, and indeed Conservative America, to the curb and seeks primarily the adulation and support of crossover Leftists and the Squishy Middle.

You needn’t worry, however. 

Even if disgusted Conservatives like me sit this one out or cast their ballots for Barr, the Squishy Middle will be voting for McCain, as well as a substantial portion of the losing side of the bruising Hillary-B.Hussein fight.

McCain’s tour will be the worst of both worlds for Conservatives… he’s going to bollocks up the entire show governing like the Leftist he is, while the Republican party will be taking the blame for the mess he and Nancy creates.

Good job.

Maybe we’ll luck out and he’ll get his long-overdue debilitating heart attack soon so we can have a second shot at getting a Conservative candidate for Conservative voters—not this Death-by-Donga choice we are left with now.


...for great justice

Move_Zig on May 18, 2008 at 11:39 pm

LawdownSally:  Hahahahahahaha!  Please,please don’t get your panties all in a knot.  Calm down.

If we survived four years of Jimmy Carter, we can survive ANYTHING!


"Here lies, in honored glory, an American soldier, known but to God.”

The stakes are high. Whether the issue is the economy, or energy, or the federal courts or national security, the right answers are coming not from the Democrats, but from the Republicans. The surge of operations that began a year ago is succeeding. The only way to lose this fight is to quit. Richard M. Cheney, Vice President, 30 May, 2008

pparets on May 19, 2008 at 03:15 am

Ok...I’m in an internet cafe...don’t have much time...had to get my fix…

It IS about the Supreme Court.  I don’t know if many conservativates are aware of the history of the 9th Circuit court, or the threat the ACLU poses by taking over this country via judiciary, or the progressive judges who are just waiting to bring about their oppression under the guise of “Open” and “New” policies…

McCain supported Alito and Roberts.  Meaning that when people want to bypass the bullshit liberal judges of the 9th circuit per se they can atleast go to the Supreme Court.  But with Obama, they’ll do just that, and then solidify the law with liberalism of the worst kind....

Remember the judge who sentenced a rapist to 60 days in jail and was not consequentially lynched “media-style” but instead ignored, even praised?

That’s the “compassionate” judge Obama attends to endorse.  Say good-bye to boyscouts and Christmas. Say hello to Partial Birth, NAMBLA.

dirl126 on May 19, 2008 at 05:37 am

dirl126, glad to see you again, hope they have strong coffee there.
Stark statement, but probably close to reality.

That’s the “compassionate” judge Obama attends to endorse.  Say good-bye to boyscouts and Christmas. Say hello to Partial Birth, NAMBLA.


Communism is evil

Chief RZ on May 19, 2008 at 05:51 am

pparets shows us his maturity once again:

Hahahahahahaha!  Please, please don’t get your panties all in a knot.

Tell me please, why is it when 2H9, HG ,Kenny, and Zig have disagreed with your analysis, you choose only to respond to me. Another sexist move on your part?

Your liberal tendencies are coming to the surface!

And this:

If we survived four years of Jimmy Carter, we can survive ANYTHING!

So...you’re saying four years of Obama wouldn’t be that bad after all, Huh?

Make up your mind, wheezy. I think it’s you who should calm down.


“To love is not to stare steadfast at one another...it is to look forward, in the same direction.”
Saint-Exupéry

laydownSally on May 19, 2008 at 10:12 am
Avatar for HG

I’m not convinced the success of conservatism hinges on the success of the republican party.  Conservatism may not be at home in the RP lately, but it is at home in America.  If and when a truly conservative leader offers to become a candidate, Americans of all stripes will give that candidate more than a fair shot. Until such a candidate exists, we are going to have to hold the fort by preventing as much damage to liberty as possible. This is the least we can do.
The failure of the RP will not be the failure of conservatism nor its end. 

Vote conservative, vote against Obama.

HG on May 19, 2008 at 10:57 am

LaydownSally:  For someone who likes to dish it out, you certainly have a thin skin. 

In your very first post on this thread, you said:

Before you launch into your oft tried and tired argument of… “We all know who Obama will appoint"… You don’t know that either.

Well, of course I don’t know who , and I have never claimed that I did.  But I do know what kind of justices he will appoint; I quoted him specifically in my post.

Compassionate judges who understand the needs of regular people.

In other words, judicial activists!

Did you read that far? Or that carefully?

And you are dead wrong on who I have responded to: Move_Zig, robert108, Whistler, Kenny and i have tangled heatedly and repeatedly on this issue.  Ask them, since you regard me as untrustworty.

Moreover, I have stated at numerous times that I would have preferred another candidate over John McCain, but there isn’t one and there won’t be.

Take the time to read my article again without your personal bile toward me. You will see the following:

Conservatives look to the future,not with optimism, but with genuine consternation

For many, the coming election spells doom…
and the unhappy prospect of no presidential candidate
they can support or put trust in.

They loath Barack Obama and Hillary Clinton and describe John McCain with the kind of language usually reserved for people who cut in line or splash muddy water as they drive by.

For conservatives, there exists a myriad of reasons not to vote for John McCain.

If any one of these statements is false, feel free to correct me, but don’t accuse me of being unfair or spinning.

It boggles my mind that you fly into a tiraid because I believe that John McCain may be the only thing standing in the way of a liberal tsunami, the likes of which we have never seen, and have the [apparent] temerity to say so.

When did you become judge and jury over who can speak on behalf of whom?  You are certainly entitled to your views on the Senator from Arizona, and I am entitled to mine.

And finally, if you can understand anything about me, understand this: Since my initial appearance on SAB, I have never veered from my two most personal conservative concerns: The Supreme Court and the War on Terrorism.  The election of Barack Obama will be the loss of both!

Believing that, it was the Supreme Court, and not John McCain, which was the subject of my essay, to which you reacted with such vitriol.


"Here lies, in honored glory, an American soldier, known but to God.”

The stakes are high. Whether the issue is the economy, or energy, or the federal courts or national security, the right answers are coming not from the Democrats, but from the Republicans. The surge of operations that began a year ago is succeeding. The only way to lose this fight is to quit. Richard M. Cheney, Vice President, 30 May, 2008

pparets on May 19, 2008 at 01:09 pm

Give it a rest, pp.

I laughed at your initial post and I’ve been grinning ever since with your worn out arguments.

Anybody reading this thread, will quickly come to the conclusion that it is you with the thin skin.

BTW, why do you like to quote yourself so often? I know you’re proud of your post...but it really wasn’t that insightful or well written.

You should try and not contradict yourself so often. Sheesh.


“To love is not to stare steadfast at one another...it is to look forward, in the same direction.”
Saint-Exupéry

laydownSally on May 19, 2008 at 03:06 pm

Oh and another thingy...if look above at the preceeding comments, you’ll see that it was only my comments that drew your ire.

Nice try, though.


“To love is not to stare steadfast at one another...it is to look forward, in the same direction.”
Saint-Exupéry

laydownSally on May 19, 2008 at 03:10 pm

LaydownSally: 

Nicely written…


"Here lies, in honored glory, an American soldier, known but to God.”

The stakes are high. Whether the issue is the economy, or energy, or the federal courts or national security, the right answers are coming not from the Democrats, but from the Republicans. The surge of operations that began a year ago is succeeding. The only way to lose this fight is to quit. Richard M. Cheney, Vice President, 30 May, 2008

pparets on May 19, 2008 at 03:32 pm

Kenny:

Neither Clinton nore (sic) Obama will pull out…

That’s just crap!

Obama has clearly stated - again and again - what his policy on Iraq will be if he is elected. 

Speaker Pelosi and Majority Leader Reid have already tried twice to end our engagement in the Middle East.

You can believe and say whatever you want, but those are the facts.

Put those three liberals together and the war is over.


"Here lies, in honored glory, an American soldier, known but to God.”

The stakes are high. Whether the issue is the economy, or energy, or the federal courts or national security, the right answers are coming not from the Democrats, but from the Republicans. The surge of operations that began a year ago is succeeding. The only way to lose this fight is to quit. Richard M. Cheney, Vice President, 30 May, 2008

pparets on May 19, 2008 at 03:52 pm

LDS: 

Why do you quote yourself so often…

Well, duh!  Not because I like the looks of my own print or retyping them again.

I asked you to correct any of the observations I made about conservative views on McCain and the election, if they were false.

Since you didn’t, I assume they are factual.

Maybe you missed my responses to HG and 2hotel9?

The only reason I didn’t respond to Kenny was because he was parroting statements you already made.

Like I said earlier, you’re entitled and so am I.


"Here lies, in honored glory, an American soldier, known but to God.”

The stakes are high. Whether the issue is the economy, or energy, or the federal courts or national security, the right answers are coming not from the Democrats, but from the Republicans. The surge of operations that began a year ago is succeeding. The only way to lose this fight is to quit. Richard M. Cheney, Vice President, 30 May, 2008

pparets on May 19, 2008 at 04:00 pm

Confusion:

and it assumes, naively, that the damage done over the next 48 to 96 months can be undone by a future conservative government.

and contradiction:

If we survived four years of Jimmy Carter, we can survive ANYTHING!


“To love is not to stare steadfast at one another...it is to look forward, in the same direction.”
Saint-Exupéry

laydownSally on May 19, 2008 at 04:23 pm

Heh heh.

Kenny made those comments 24 hrs ago and you’re just getting around to comment on them.

Ah...after I pointed out your sexist nature, by the way.


“To love is not to stare steadfast at one another...it is to look forward, in the same direction.”
Saint-Exupéry

laydownSally on May 19, 2008 at 04:57 pm

LDS:  You are quite correct. After your silly accusation that I only respond to you, I went back to look at the responses - several of them - which I made to other posters. During that review, I noticed Kenny’s absurd prediction that Obama [in particular] would not pull out of Iraq.

So, I responded, 24 hours late.  If that is proof of sexism [???] in your mind, then feel free to be offended.

Regarding the Carter years: There is no inconsistency here. On several other threads, I have pointed out that in the 1970’s, democrats in congress were far more moderate than they are today and resisted - along with republicans - many of Jimmy’s bizarre domestic poilicies, thus limiting him to foreign policy debacles; an opportunity he siezed with relish. The democrats of 2008 are quite a different matter. They and Obama will transform the nation.

I know you relish the role of witty, clever, incisive observer - replete with condescending attacks - not only on comments, but also on those who make them. But you are flailing away here as though it is a matter of life and death to put me in my place.  Why is that?

It suggests an internal issue which you may wish to deal with.

By the way:

Thompson, Rudy, Romney or the Huckster would have been marginally better in too few ways.

Then would it be fair to say that any GOP candidate nominated from the 2008 primary pool would have raised your ire, and any supporter of same would incur your wrath?

I can’t speak for you, but it’s been my experience that people whose bar is set so high that no one qualifies, are generally out of touch with reality.

You’re entitled, and so am I.


"Here lies, in honored glory, an American soldier, known but to God.”

The stakes are high. Whether the issue is the economy, or energy, or the federal courts or national security, the right answers are coming not from the Democrats, but from the Republicans. The surge of operations that began a year ago is succeeding. The only way to lose this fight is to quit. Richard M. Cheney, Vice President, 30 May, 2008

pparets on May 19, 2008 at 07:16 pm

You took me all wrong, pp.

When I mentioned confusion, I was speaking about your knowledge, your writing, and your ideological views. Once again, you mistake my flailing for direct and lethal punches. When you can learn to properly defend yourself, I’ll engage you again.

I’m sorry your upset, dear. I didn’t mean to expose your inadequacies for all to see. Next time, I’ll just IM ya.


“To love is not to stare steadfast at one another...it is to look forward, in the same direction.”
Saint-Exupéry

laydownSally on May 19, 2008 at 09:05 pm

A graceful exit if ever I saw one…

Accepted. smile


"Here lies, in honored glory, an American soldier, known but to God.”

The stakes are high. Whether the issue is the economy, or energy, or the federal courts or national security, the right answers are coming not from the Democrats, but from the Republicans. The surge of operations that began a year ago is succeeding. The only way to lose this fight is to quit. Richard M. Cheney, Vice President, 30 May, 2008

pparets on May 20, 2008 at 04:12 am
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