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Wednesday, January 09, 2008

Surprisingly, Indiana’s Voter ID Law Works…

Indiana has had a voter ID law on the books since 2005 that requires photo identification.  The poster child for critics of this law is Faye Buis-Ewing, who was denied the right to vote in Indiana when she displayed her Florida drivers license.

OK, now think about that.

In order to get a drivers license, you have to be a resident of the state.  In order to vote in a state, you have to be a resident in that state.  Seems like Ms. Buis-Ewing should have been voting in Florida, not Indiana, right?

Kind of hard to understand the righteous indignation from the left:  The ID law worked as intended, it screened people who, based on their credentials, shouldn’t be voting in that state.  This is true even, as it turns out, that she owns a home in Indiana.  You can’t have your primary residence be in two states. (What part of “primary” didn’t she understand?)

But the logic of the left being what it is, she whined about it, and they made her their poster child.  In retrospect, that seems to have been a mistake. It turns out Ms. Buis-Ewing has declared herself a resident of both Florida and Indiana, and has even gone to the extent of being registered to vote.

It also appears that she and her husband have been declaring homestead exemptions on both properties.  And if that’s not violating the law, it’s pretty darn close. 

That aside, if your primary residency is in Indiana, you are required to have a driver’s license for that state (I believe you have six months to get one after establishing domicile).  So either she is a legal resident of Florida with a legal drivers license, or an legal resident of Indiana with an illegal drivers license.

The left sure has a funny notion of “heros”. All I have to say.

h/t Instapundit.

Comments

Reminds me of the guy that needed free health care for his family even though his net worth was well over a quarter million dollars.


What’s going to happen to US industry when the global warming extremists like John McCain double the price of electricity?  I would think all these factories will close and set up in countries where they aren’t scared of technology.


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The Whistler on January 9, 2008 at 09:11 pm

Reminds me of the guy that needed free health care for his family even though his net worth was well over a quarter million dollars.

Swoon… My hero! wink

Carrick on January 9, 2008 at 09:42 pm
Avatar for Todd Dugdale

Under these proposed rules, I would have been deprived of my right to vote. Some years ago, I moved into a new apartment in November. It takes six weeks (at least) for a new ID to arrive by mail, so even if I had gone down to the courthouse the very day I signed the lease, I would not have had a state-issued photo ID to present at the polls on November 4. I didn’t even have a utility bill yet; who would four days after moving in? I had someone who was registered vouch for me at the polls, which would not be allowed under these new laws.

Of course, I could have travelled back to my old neighbourhood and voted illegally under false pretenses with my state-issued photo ID. So how does this prevent fraud again? I would have been allowed to vote in a precinct I didn’t even live in, but not allowed to vote where I did live because an ID couldn’t arrive in time.

A photo ID does not prove citizenship, and neither does it prove the lack of a felonious criminal record. It does not even prove that you live at the address shown on the ID, only that you did at some point in time. And with identity theft as prevalent as it is, a photo ID doesn’t even prove that you are you.

So it proves nothing except that you can keep citizens who moved in November from voting if you really want to. Hooray!

People fought and died for our freedoms and our right to vote, and you want to take that away with a chuckle over a technicality. Did Mrs. Buis-Ewing vote in two states? No, she didn’t. Maybe she shouldn’t have voted in Indiana, but she can’t fly down to Florida without an ID, can she? Or drive, for that matter. So, yes, she is a complete bastard for not taking a bus from Indiana to Florida to cast a vote. You Republicans have some strange villians. Let citizens vote.

Todd Dugdale on January 9, 2008 at 10:07 pm

...and neither does it prove the lack of a felonious criminal record.

Which matters not a whit in 37 states. Felons are generally allowed to vote, contrary to common misconceptions.

People fought and died for our freedoms and our right to vote, and you want to take that away with a chuckle over a technicality.

Right back at you!

You Republicans have some strange villians. Let citizens vote.

That’s what we’ve been demanding. Let citizens, and only citizens, vote once, and only once.

You may not agree with the voter ID requirements, but could we do with a bit less demonization? Is that even possible with you?

likwidshoe on January 9, 2008 at 10:16 pm

Ahh,..never mind Todd. I see that in your website you claim, “In spite of voter impersonation being a non-existent problem”.

Yeah, right. Walk into a voter place, pick out a name on a voter roll, sign that name, and then vote away. “Non-existent” you say.

It’s hard to reason with someone who denies reality.

likwidshoe on January 9, 2008 at 10:21 pm

BTW - “strange villians” = voter fraud.

Straight from the mouth of a leftie.

likwidshoe on January 9, 2008 at 10:27 pm

Let citizens vote.

Todd,

Damn Right!

Just as soon as they document the fact that they are, legally, citizens and eligible residents of the state in which they are voting.


“Poverty of goods is easily cured; poverty of the mind is irreparable.”

Bat One on January 9, 2008 at 10:39 pm

Did Mrs. Buis-Ewing vote in two states? No, she didn’t. Maybe she shouldn’t have voted in Indiana, but she can’t fly down to Florida without an ID, can she? Or drive, for that matter. So, yes, she is a complete bastard for not taking a bus from Indiana to Florida to cast a vote. You Republicans have some strange villians. Let citizens vote.

If she indeed was a Florida Resident, she would not be voting in Indiana.  If she was an Indiana resident, she should be using both a photo id and a utility bill or another form of ID other than a Drivers License from another state that shows her proper address.

It is really simple.  Provide a photo identification with your proper residence listed on it.  It can usually be a combination of a non-government issued ID and a utility bill as it is in Arizona.

A check with Charlotte County, Fla.’s online property tax records shows that Ewing owns property there. One requirement in Florida to claim homestead is to show a valid voter ID or sign an affidavit of residency – which she did when she applied for her voter card there. She claimed a homestead exemption on the Florida property in 2003 – the same time she was claiming a homestead exemption on property she owned in Indiana, according to Tippecanoe deputy auditor Heather Satler. Satler said that Ewing’s Indiana exemption began in 1994 and ended in 2004, when the exemption was removed because the state discovered she wasn¹t living there.

Tuesday Ewing said the homestead “problem came up” when she married in 2002. “But that was taken care of,” she said. She also said her main residence is in Indiana, and that she pays “some” taxes in Indiana on a “small annuity” she receives.

“But I feel like I’m a victim here,” Ewing said. “I never intended to do anything wrong. I know a lot of people in Florida in this same situation – they call us ‘Snowbirds,’ you know.”

People typically claim homestead in Florida because it offers massive asset protection for primary residences, hence why OJ owns his home there. 

I own property in both Utah and Arizona.  I keep a UT drivers license and claim homestead there, my wife claims homestead in AZ so that we can split the $250k homestead proceeds exemption on the sale of our primary residence.  By tax laws, I have to pay state income tax where my income is earned, not where my primary residence is.  I am mixed on where to register to vote and to vote, but typically, if I am living at either location for longer than 30 days.  Arizona’s law states allows me to vote as long as I am a resident of the state 29 days preceding the next general election.

I understand her situation, but ignorance is no excuse.  She maintains two homes and is registered to vote in two states.  She shows up without the valid voter ID and with an invalid registration and she is not DENIED THE RIGHT TO VOTE, BUT ASKED TO CAST A PROVISIONAL BALLOT that is verified by the elections officials.  If her story checks out, her vote is counted.  There is an online tracking system to check it and see for her afterwards.

Justin B. on January 9, 2008 at 10:42 pm

In this probably hypothetical example, he should have voted in his original precinct.  That’s not voter fraud, that’s how the system works.

I’ve had almost exactly the same thing happen, and had no problem voting.

Carrick on January 9, 2008 at 10:46 pm

Maybe she shouldn’t have voted in Indiana, but she can’t fly down to Florida without an ID, can she? Or drive, for that matter. So, yes, she is a complete bastard for not taking a bus from Indiana to Florida to cast a vote. You Republicans have some strange villians. Let citizens vote.

Absentee balloting you dumb fuck.  If you are away from your home state, you can request an absentee ballot.  Military folks do it all the time.

So where does she live and why is she registered to vote in two places?  Why does she want to vote in Indiana when she claims residence in Florida?

Justin B. on January 9, 2008 at 10:50 pm

An absentee ballot would have certainly been the answer.  And since Ms. Buis-Ewing has become the poster child (an appropriate aphorism) for the liberal Left, she can be assured that unless she used an APO or FPO as a return address, her Florida absentee ballot would actually have been counted.


“Poverty of goods is easily cured; poverty of the mind is irreparable.”

Bat One on January 9, 2008 at 11:08 pm

Photo ID is NOT required for
this proof of citizenship.
2001142272938488807_rs.jpg

WOOF on January 9, 2008 at 11:19 pm

What’s your point WOOF? Are you just here to muddy the waters?

likwidshoe on January 10, 2008 at 01:23 am

I think he’s trying to say that the law needs to be changed.

Other than that, I’m trying to figure out the slant where it’s OK to have somebody enter the country without photo ID.

Carrick on January 10, 2008 at 02:19 am
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Under these proposed rules, I would have been deprived of my right to vote.

Which would have been poor planning on your part!
Hard cases make bad law. How many people move in November in election years? So, for a handful of people who might not be able to exercise their franchise in one election, we should disable every effort to prevent people from voting more than once in every election?

The principle of “one man, one vote” ensures equality under the law. When any one man votes more than once, it dilutes the power of the honest voter to where it becomes “One man, less than one vote”

College students have the right to vote- either at home or at school, not both! “Snow birds” have the right to vote- either at home or at their summer home, not both!

Political activists have the right to vote at home- not at every location where dead people are registered!

Absentee ballots that list multiple people living at the same non-residential address shouldn’t be allowed to vote at all!

We need honest elections, despite what liberals want! Showing a picture ID to vote is a helluva good way to start!



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Proof on January 10, 2008 at 06:06 am
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Photo ID is NOT required for this proof of citizenship.

No, but a birth certificate is! AND your photo is attached to it, at which point, it becomes your photo ID!  Would you rather that we require you to produce your birth certificate on election day in order to vote? Or are you just woofin’ to hear yourself woof ?

These geniuses at the ACLU are arguing that a free photo ID is too big of a burden for their morally and intellectually challenged constituents. How much more would they be burdened to obtain a passport? Which, by some coincidence, isn’t free!(But, then, they would HAVE a photo ID, wouldn’t they?)



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Proof on January 10, 2008 at 06:16 am

You don’t even need a birth certificate for a passport. There are a number of alternatives for the premier form of ID.
Citizenship is clear cut.
If this wasn’t about keeping poor people from voting the states would be issuing photo IDs at the polls.

Residence is a muddy concept.
GHW Bush voted from a vacant lot in
Tejas. Dick Cheney suddenly reported
residence in Wyoming when he got the nomination for VP.
Hillary=New Yorker?

WOOF on January 10, 2008 at 06:44 am
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You don’t even need a birth certificate for a passport. There are a number of alternatives for the premier form of ID.

Fine! Then let them get a passport and use that as their picture ID. Problem solved!



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Proof on January 10, 2008 at 06:51 am
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If this wasn’t about keeping poor people from voting the states would be issuing photo IDs at the polls.

WOOF: You really need to go back on your meds! The idea of requiring a photo ID is so that you ascertain the identity of the voter before you let them vote. Issuing them a photo ID AS they vote will not eliminate fraud, if they go to another polling place and duplicate the process.
Being poor has nothing to do with it. Only the brain dead and other liberals could come up with something like that!



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Proof on January 10, 2008 at 06:55 am

So, woofie, poor people can not cash checks, or buy tobacco and alcohol? Prove that.


Una Salus Victus Nullam Sperare Salutem

2Hotel9 on January 10, 2008 at 07:03 am

Voter eligibility is a state matter, tempered by the constitution.
Non citizens were allowed the franchise for the first 150 years
of the Republic.
Indiana is one case, there will be
others as this plays out.

I can cash a check without photo ID, just swipe my bank card, enter
my secret Bosco code on the keypad. Grey hair is my passport to alcohol and tobacco products.
Free alcohol was a problem at Saturdays large dinner party.
Three vodka martinis seemed a good idea at the time.

WOOF on January 10, 2008 at 07:29 am

To obtain a passport for the first time, you need to go in person to one of over 9,000 passport acceptance facilities located throughout the United States with two photographs of yourself,proof of U.S. citizenship, and a valid form of photo identification such as a driver’s license

Remind me.  What alternatives are there to a birth certificate?

I have no problems with them producing the same level of documentation that they would need e.g. to get their driver’s license.  You need to be a citizen and living in that state to vote there, and any documentation that establishes this should be valid.

This would put a quick end to ballot stuffing.  If they fail to provide adequate documentation at the time of voting, they make a provisional vote, and once they later produce reasonable documentation of who they are, their vote gets counted.

Carrick on January 10, 2008 at 07:40 am

WOOF:

I can cash a check without photo ID, just swipe my bank card, enter my secret Bosco code on the keypad.

So what’s your point? It’s so much harder to get a valid picture ID than a bank card?

I’m not sure there’s any logic to your argument, unless you think that all poor people are shiftless and lazy, and can’t take care of themselves.

Carrick on January 10, 2008 at 07:44 am

Proof, if the issued ID card had a unique ID on it, you couldn’t get multiple copies for the same set of credentials.  So there probably is a way to make it work, at least well enough that what cheating that is going on, occurs at a level of irrelevancy.

Carrick on January 10, 2008 at 07:47 am

WOOF,

The fact that you are able to bypass the law where cigarettes and alcohol are concerned does not diminish the validity of that law.  Cashing a check and buying beer and butts are commercial transactions… indulgences.

If you favor voting fraud, particularly in large urban (read: Democrat-controlled) areas, why not just say so?


“Poverty of goods is easily cured; poverty of the mind is irreparable.”

Bat One on January 10, 2008 at 08:02 am

Remind me.  What alternatives are there to a birth certificate?

Here you go C

NOTE: The following are NOT proof of citizenship

* Voter registration cards

WOOF on January 10, 2008 at 08:06 am

There isn’t a problem of denying people the right to vote.

The problem is the liberals want to enable vote fraud.  That’s what they’re about and have been for a long time.


What’s going to happen to US industry when the global warming extremists like John McCain double the price of electricity?  I would think all these factories will close and set up in countries where they aren’t scared of technology.


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The Whistler on January 10, 2008 at 08:15 am

woofie is merely throwing out feces. If not he will gladly supply the name and branch of the bank that allows him to have an account without proof of identification. That is a criminal’s wetdream, and I am fairly certain that State and Federal bank regulating officials will like to have a long, detailed discussion with them.

The only people who oppose legal personal identification for voting is those determined to commit the crime of vote fraud. Period.


Una Salus Victus Nullam Sperare Salutem

2Hotel9 on January 10, 2008 at 08:29 am

Unless you have a passport, the alternatives look to be more demanding than just getting a birth certificate.  So it’s not more lenient, as you seem to be suggesting, it’s actually considerably more difficult.

Based on your logic WOOF, aren’t we discriminating against poor people by requiring them to own a passport to travel abroad?

Carrick on January 10, 2008 at 09:09 am
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Whoops, posted this on the front page without checking the reader blogs first.


When the people fear their government, there is tyranny; when the government fears the people, there is liberty.

-- Thomas Jefferson

Rob’s recently listened-to songs:

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Rob on January 10, 2008 at 09:12 am

For that matter, why should they be required to have a driver’s license.  Those things are a real hassle to obtain, especially in urban areas.

Ive been to hell. I spell it...i spell it dmv.  Anyone thats been there knows precisely what I mean...

Carrick on January 10, 2008 at 09:15 am

We also require an ID to get a job. 

I think the argument about buying cigarettes is kinda bogus, but I would consider the ability to earn a living to be more basic than the right to vote. 

Face it, the Democrats want voter fraud, that’s why they’re fighting this.


What’s going to happen to US industry when the global warming extremists like John McCain double the price of electricity?  I would think all these factories will close and set up in countries where they aren’t scared of technology.


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The Whistler on January 10, 2008 at 09:18 am

Rob, you could add a link if you want.  Your call.

Carrick on January 10, 2008 at 09:32 am

Whistler:

Face it, the Democrats want voter fraud, that’s why they’re fighting this.

I think they justify it in their minds because they “know” how those other people would have voted.

“We’re just making sure their votes count.”

Carrick on January 10, 2008 at 09:34 am

Toot, in most states it is the law, no ID no smokes. Why should it be harder to buy tobacco than to vote? Perhaps the no ID to vote crowd will support stripping those onerous laws out of code so we can all have an easier time getting our booze and cigs! Hell, no more ID for any purpose! Yea, thats the ticket. Anarchy in our time, wasn’t it Churchill that said that?

This is too much fun.


Una Salus Victus Nullam Sperare Salutem

2Hotel9 on January 10, 2008 at 09:37 am

In an unrelated vein, have you guys seen the headline at the bottom of this page?

“FBI Wiretaps Dropped Due to Unpaid Bills”, what a bunch of idiots! And they wonder why people laugh at, and don’t trust, them.


Una Salus Victus Nullam Sperare Salutem

2Hotel9 on January 10, 2008 at 09:42 am

Carrick:

, aren’t we discriminating against poor people by requiring them to own a passport to travel abroad?

Yes, $97 is too much.

WOOF on January 10, 2008 at 09:45 am

You can get a plane ticket for that much.

Heck I can barely drive to Winnipeg for that.


What’s going to happen to US industry when the global warming extremists like John McCain double the price of electricity?  I would think all these factories will close and set up in countries where they aren’t scared of technology.


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The Whistler on January 10, 2008 at 09:52 am

How many “poor” spend that much on cigs and lottery tickets every week?


Una Salus Victus Nullam Sperare Salutem

2Hotel9 on January 10, 2008 at 10:11 am

OH! Thats right, got to have ID to buy those cigs, guess your argument is crap, woofie.


Una Salus Victus Nullam Sperare Salutem

2Hotel9 on January 10, 2008 at 10:13 am
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Yes, $97 is too much.

If they can’t afford $97 to leave the country (actually, they can in some cases leave, they just might not be able to get back in! ), then they can’t afford to travel outside the country anyway!



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Proof on January 10, 2008 at 10:14 am
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But, the cost of a passport is just a red herring WOOF drags across the trail. Most states will provide a driver’s license for a considerably smaller fee, or a state ID card at little to no cost.

WOOF just wants to promote and prolong the Democrat time honored tradition of voter fraud!



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Proof on January 10, 2008 at 10:17 am

I don’t have a problem with needing ID to vote but then I have ID already. So long as those that don’t have ID are provided with same then there shouldn’t be a problem. I appreciate that efforts such as the Indiana law have been used to frustrate voting by the poor and marginalised in the past but there should be some way to accomodate both sides.


Conservatives are not necessarily stupid, but most stupid people are conservatives.

John Stuart Mill

MikeAdamson on January 10, 2008 at 10:38 am

In North Dakota you can get a free state ID.  It’s not about the money it’s about reducing fraud.

When I go to vote I walk and they greet me by name.  Before they ask me, I pull out my drivers license so they don’t have to be embarassed asking someone they know well for ID.

What’s the big deal?  There isn’t.  It’s about fraud.


What’s going to happen to US industry when the global warming extremists like John McCain double the price of electricity?  I would think all these factories will close and set up in countries where they aren’t scared of technology.


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The Whistler on January 10, 2008 at 10:48 am

I appreciate that efforts such as the Indiana law have been used to frustrate voting by the poor and marginalised in the past…

Mike,

Of course you have some authoritative citations available to substantiate this claim, right?


“Poverty of goods is easily cured; poverty of the mind is irreparable.”

Bat One on January 10, 2008 at 10:59 am

You’d also have to balance that against the threat of voter fraud. 

I don’t know about Indiana but there are been plenty of instances of obvious voter fraud (more ballots than registered voters as one indicator).

Each example of voter fraud is as bad as someone being denied their legitimate right to vote.  Of course it’s easy to get ID, it’s hardly an inconveniece when it’s impossible to cut voter fraud any other way.

(BTW, why don’t we dip our fingers in ink like they do in the third world?) That wouldn’t stop all instances of fraud such as illegal alienoids from Canada sneaking in to vote, but it’d be a good step.


What’s going to happen to US industry when the global warming extremists like John McCain double the price of electricity?  I would think all these factories will close and set up in countries where they aren’t scared of technology.


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The Whistler on January 10, 2008 at 11:02 am

Nice try, Mike. Voter registration and ID requirements have never been used to deny the poor or anyone else their right to vote. The requirements are quite simple, and easily followed by anyone who actually wants to vote.


Una Salus Victus Nullam Sperare Salutem

2Hotel9 on January 10, 2008 at 11:03 am
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Another thing; Being without a photo ID is not a permanent condition!Someone shows up at the polls without a photo ID, or moved in November, they have one to four years to get one before the next election or presidential election!

If I went to the polls and found I couldn’t vote because I didn’t have proper ID, or hadn’t re-registered since my last move, I’d make dang sure it didn’t happen again!

Again, there is no legitimate beef here. It’s all about keep the door open to voter fraud.



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Proof on January 10, 2008 at 11:07 am

I appreciate that efforts such as the Indiana law have been used to frustrate voting by the poor and marginalised in the past but there should be some way to accomodate both sides.

This is a temporary problem.  Once the law is enacted and needing ID becomes the norm, it is a non-issue.  Especially if obtaining an ID is free to the poor.

We have to weigh the cost-benefit.  First, substantiating one’s identity and legitimate right to vote is a good thing.  We all can agree on that.  It prevents fraud.  Second, voter fraud is a bad thing.  I think we all can agree on that too.  At least I take it for granted that ensuring that people have a legitimate right to vote and preventing voter fraud is a good thing.  That is what is so problematic about this.  The Dems don’t appear to want to acknowledge the benefit of those two points.  Or at very least, they oppose any real method of doing it.  They present no alternatives and even if ID is free, they still don’t support it.

It seems that no burden is acceptable.  But in my mind there should be at least some small burden required to vote.  Perhaps a burden as great as one we would expect if we want to obtain a job or cash a paycheck or open a bank account or get a cell phone.  Businesses require identities be verified because they have potential customers that would defraud them if they don’t check identities.  Some folks are just bad people and have bad motives. 

If one considers how many people fight and die for our right to vote, why are folks like Woof so willing to throw away their sacrifice by not treating voting as a sacred privilege and instead act as if even the most minor burden placed upon it is too great?

Justin B. on January 10, 2008 at 11:18 am

So WOOF, you don’t think all of the paperwork in filling out a passport is more of a headache than getting a voter registration card?

MikeAdamson:

I appreciate that efforts such as the Indiana law have been used to frustrate voting by the poor and marginalised in the past but there should be some way to accomodate both sides.

While there certainly have been attempts to suppress votes in the past, you choose a very poor example to illustrate that.

You liberals are making getting an ID like having your teeth extracted without any anesthesia.  Really, you guys really have a low opinion of these people.

So why exactly did you want them to vote again?

Carrick on January 10, 2008 at 11:27 am

Why are folks like Justin so willing to deny them their right to vote?

Better to deny tens thousands of the poor, the handicapped, the aged, than have one case of fraud?

WOOF on January 10, 2008 at 12:05 pm

You’re projecting C.

Really, you guys really have a low opinion of these people.

So why exactly did you want them to vote again?

Cause it’s their right.

WOOF on January 10, 2008 at 12:11 pm

Better to deny tens thousands of the poor, the handicapped, the aged,

They can’t get ID?  Of course they can.


What’s going to happen to US industry when the global warming extremists like John McCain double the price of electricity?  I would think all these factories will close and set up in countries where they aren’t scared of technology.


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The Whistler on January 10, 2008 at 12:13 pm
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WOOF is delusional. OF course, when your REAL reason is to commit voter fraud, it’s kind of hard to come out and just admit it!



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Proof on January 10, 2008 at 12:28 pm

Republicans have successfully prosecuted how many cases of voter
fraud during the Bush administration?

WOOF on January 10, 2008 at 12:44 pm

Republicans have successfully prosecuted how many cases of voter fraud during the Bush administration?

Not that many, because when they took disciplinary action against DAs who were refusing to prosecute voter fraud, you liberals went all over them.

By the way, I want to treat them like adults.  You’re the one who apparently thinks they can’t even tie their own shoelaces, let alone be competent enough to get their own voter ID card.

Carrick on January 10, 2008 at 12:52 pm

Lefties like Woof squeal “voter fraud” every time they lose an election.


Hope and change, in a free world, are the private possessions of motivated individuals.

robert108 on January 10, 2008 at 12:52 pm
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Republicans have successfully prosecuted how many cases of voter fraud during the Bush administration?

WOOF is delusional if he thinks crime doesn’t exist merely because it hasn’t been prosecuted!



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Proof on January 10, 2008 at 01:04 pm

Stephen Hawking gets help tying his shoe laces.

WOOF on January 10, 2008 at 01:11 pm

Bet he has a valid ID too, especially being he’s a British citizen?

You know how many Europeans don’t own a passport?

I guess it’s only the American poor that are stupid.

Carrick on January 10, 2008 at 01:18 pm

http://seattletimes.nwsource.com/html/localnews/2003806904_webvotefraud26m.html

King and Pierce County prosecutors filed felony charges today against seven people who allegedly committed the biggest voter-registration fraud in state history.

In addition to filing criminal charges, Satterberg said state and local officials had signed a five-year agreement with ACORN that requires the organization to beef up its training and procedures for detecting and reporting fraud.

ACORN agreed to pay King County $25,000 for its investigative costs and acknowledged that the national organization could be subject to criminal prosecution if fraud occurs again.

“Ladies and gentlemen, this is the worst case of voter-registration fraud in the history of the state of Washington. There has been nothing comparable to this,” state Secretary of State Sam Reed said at a news conference with Satterberg, King County Executive Ron Sims and Acting U.S. Attorney Jeff Sullivan.

ACORN President Maude Hurd said in a statement, “It appears that a handful of temporary workers were trying to get paid for work they hadn’t actually done. While we don’t think the intent or the result of their actions was to allow any ineligible person to vote, these employees defrauded ACORN and imposed a burden on the time and resources of registrars and law enforcement.”

The announcement of criminal charges came after the King County Canvassing Board revoked 1,762 allegedly fraudulent voter registrations submitted by ACORN employees.

1762 fraudulent registrations.  7 employees doing it.  And that is in one single city at one single time before the hotly contested 2006 Washington state election.

Justin B. on January 10, 2008 at 01:18 pm

So we admit that voter registration fraud is fairly easy and unless it rises to this level of obviousness, it is almost unnoticable.

So what happens when those 1762 people try to vote?  How do we know they wouldn’t if this isn’t caught?

Oh, I know how--A VOTER ID LAW. 

Woof doesn’t see this minor isolated case of voter fraud as a problem, except when it can influence an election’s outcome.  This is more votes than the 2000 Presidential Election was decided by.

But Woof is worried about the poor and uneducated and sick and elderly more than these 1762 people that don’t exist.

Justin B. on January 10, 2008 at 01:21 pm

The official story was, Republican US Attorneys were fired because they were incompetent, not because

were refusing to prosecute voter fraud

,
they investigated and there was no fraud.

100 of millions of votes and how many successful fraud prosecutions by the Bush Justice Dept?

Where’s the beef?

WOOF on January 10, 2008 at 01:22 pm

Republicans have successfully prosecuted how many cases of voter fraud during the Bush administration?

Did that shut you up?

And BTW, why would Republicans be the only ones interested in prosecuting voter fraud?  Are you implying that Democrat prosecutors have no problem with voter fraud or that the Clinton Administration turned a blind eye or that voter fraud is only a problem when Republicans want to disenfranchise blacks and minorities?

Justin B. on January 10, 2008 at 01:23 pm

Without requiring ID’s there’s generally no way to prove voter fraud.

The left is for voter fraud because it’s the only way they can win elections.


What’s going to happen to US industry when the global warming extremists like John McCain double the price of electricity?  I would think all these factories will close and set up in countries where they aren’t scared of technology.


The Whistler's signature
The Whistler on January 10, 2008 at 01:24 pm

Those 1762 people didn’t exist.
Not voter fraud , no one voted.
Just temp Acorn workers getting $2 a name.
No plan too stuff ballot boxes.

WOOF on January 10, 2008 at 01:30 pm

Again in Kind County:

At least eight people who died well before the November general election were credited with voting in King County, raising new questions about the integrity of the vote total in the narrow governor’s race, a Seattle Post-Intelligencer review has found.

The evidence of votes from dead people is the latest example of flaws in an election already rocked by misplaced votes and allegations that there were thousands more votes counted than actual voters.

It is kinda difficult to prosecute voter fraud because by nature, that person is impersonating someone else and unless you catch them in the act, voting, by its very nature is supposed to be anonymous act.

So 1762 bad voter registrations… at least 8 dead people voting, but countless more if databases can be heavily scrutinized…

How much more evidence do you want Woof?  And this is just one state and one election.

Justin B. on January 10, 2008 at 01:31 pm

Majority of Washington State counties are absentee only.


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Anna on January 10, 2008 at 01:31 pm

there’s generally no way to prove voter fraud

There’s a very good way.
Called a signature.

WOOF on January 10, 2008 at 01:33 pm

We do not know whether someone intended for them to vote or not.

What we do know is that it is easy to register someone who doesn’t exist and have thier ballots mailed to a PO Box, Mailboxes ETC (now UPS Store), or to simply have someone else show up, say their name, pick up a ballot, and cast that ballot anonymously.

This simply proves that it is fairly easy to register fraudulently and it is fairly easy to cast an absentee ballot fraudulently.

So we have ease of registration and ease of fraudulently voting, we have the fact that it is difficult to detect, and we have the fact that it can change outcomes of elections.  Do you dispute any of these items Woof?

So then if we have identified a problem, which I guess you can deny exists but that kind of makes it pointless for us to even waste our time on you here, then we get into how to solve it with the least impact on the people that should be allowed to vote.  One solution is to require identification to substantiate that the person is living and is who they claim to be.  I cannot see another solution.

Justin B. on January 10, 2008 at 01:35 pm

There’s a very good way.
Called a signature.

So you propose that we have forensic scientists monitor every single signature cast in an election versus that on the registration that is increasingly done via the Internet without an actual signature?  Is that what you suggest?

Justin B. on January 10, 2008 at 01:37 pm

WOOF:

The official story was, Republican US Attorneys were fired because they were incompetent, not because

To be fair, the reasons for the dismissals varied from individual to individual.  But one of the reasons for the review that led to the dismissals were that some prosecutors weren’t handling voter fraud complaints vigorously enough for the DOJ.  The other was not prosecuting illegal aliens, after they had been warned what would happen if they didn’t.

Both of these issues are flash-point for you liberals, so it’s naturally your push back came through a made-up controversy, especially as you knew what asses you’d look like if you complained about increased enforcement on either of these issues.

Carrick on January 10, 2008 at 01:38 pm

Look, Woof, the SCOTUS is going to rule on this and it will probably be that requiring ID is legal.  So you might want to make plans now to encourage all of your poor indigent friends to get their IDs now so that they can vote for Hillary.  Because everyone knows that the poor that cannot afford ID cards always vote Democrat.  This is Republicans trying to steal elections by forcing the poor that cannot afford ID cards out of the system.  Disenfranchising them of course.

Send in Al Sharpton.  Jesse.

Justin B. on January 10, 2008 at 01:40 pm

WOOF - Why are folks like Justin so willing to deny them their right to vote?

Folks like Justin want to deny the right to vote to whom?

Answer carefully. We’ll see if you’re paying attention.

likwidshoe on January 10, 2008 at 01:41 pm

How do you match the signature to the person?  That seems pretty improbable, not including the difficulties with automated software recognizing distinct signatures. Hell they can’t always get the right person, even when they have a full page of text, let alone a signature.

Carrick on January 10, 2008 at 01:45 pm

Majority of Washington State counties are absentee only.

Yeah… and just look at the mess Washington’s last gubernatorial election became.  The voters of your state deserve better.


“Poverty of goods is easily cured; poverty of the mind is irreparable.”

Bat One on January 10, 2008 at 01:46 pm

Start with voters in nursing homes hospitals Lik. You taking them for their photo ID after they have voted in 50 years of elections?

deny the right to vote to whom

?
WOOF on January 10, 2008 at 01:49 pm

SCOTUS will probably rule in narrow terms . Some Fedral appeals court Judge will rule on a different grounds.
This will go on for awhile till Hillary packs the court.

13 is a nice number of Justices.

WOOF on January 10, 2008 at 01:52 pm
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Start with voters in nursing homes hospitals Lik. You taking them for their photo ID after they have voted in 50 years of elections?

Not when there’s a nice young Democrat like you to “help” them mark their ballots!

Oh, look! Another Republican for Hillary!