Say Anything Blog

And still most think we can live peacably with muslims.  A clash of drastically different cultures has never had a happy ending for one of them.

You don’t have to be a moron to be a liberal Democrat but it sure helps.

Joel
Just because you, Bezu, and docdave refuse to acknowledge the existence of moderate Muslims doesn’t mean they don’t exist. See some of 2h9’s recent posts. Ask someone who’s been to Iraq if ALL the people over there are trying to kill them or IF JUST SOME are. Many muslims just want to get on with their shit and really wanna beat these terrorists so that they stop bringing the wrath of uncle sam down upon their country, neighborhood, whathaveyou.
Furthermore, someone who repeatedly find isolated examples of effed up stuff and uses them to generalize that all Muslims are extremists… is silly. You know how bad I could make Americans look using your logic? Your article even describes these people as ‘hardline’. Gimme a break.
Same with Israel. There are obviously some moderates there too, seeing the numbers rallying against Ohlmert recently.

Yun Chu said, “You must strictly not express in words what is very significant. Both dragon and snake are killed in one blow.”

Bottom line? Moderates have got to step up and start wiping out these Deathcult assholes. They proclaim their desire to die for God? Fine. Lets us help them achieve their goal.

Una Salus Victus Nullam Sperare Salutem

OK Sparks-let’s keep our eye on Turkey. You site both Iran and Turkey as having a “moderate” muslim populace..... time will tell who’s right!

The response of the Turkish government and people to the recent massacre of three Christians by Islamic fundamentalists will be an omen for the future of religious tolerance in that country and, more importantly, for Islam as a whole.

On April 18, two Turks and a German were found with their hands and legs bound and their throats slit at the Zirve publishing house, an organization known for its efforts to distribute Bibles in this 99 percent Muslim country.

The publishing house also served as a meeting house for Christian prayer groups. Ten people have been arrested in connection with the crime.

A reporter, upon arriving in Istanbul last year to report on Pope Benedict’s pastoral and ecumenical visit to Turkey, asked a taxi driver whether or not the pope would be safe.

“We don’t like the pope,” he said, “but we’re not going to kill him. Our brother Ali Agca shot the Polish pope in 1981, and that was bad for Turkey.”

It was an honest answer but not very reassuring. Wouldn’t we have preferred to hear an outright condemnation of violence, an argument for peaceful Islam, or a promise that extremists were a dying breed?

Not once during that week in Turkey, did anyone, from any social class, offer that kind of reasoned assurance!!

I challenge you [sparks] to find and post examples of moderate muslims willing to put their asses on the line in condemning islamic jihad....you ain’t gonna find it!!

It was an honest answer but not very reassuring. Wouldn’t we have preferred to hear an outright condemnation of violence, an argument for peaceful Islam, or a promise that extremists were a dying breed?

Basically all that says to me is that these people are zealots and only see their point of view. I keep hearing about these moderates but haven’t seen a lot of evidence of there being any.

Check out:
Goon’s North Dakota Red Neck
Goon’s World

someone who repeatedly find isolated examples of effed up stuff and uses them to generalize that all Muslims are extremists… is silly. You know how bad I could make Americans look using your logic?
sparkie

They sure as hell are “not” isolated.

Why are you so unwilling to accept these events as the mainstream islamic approach to everything and “SO” enthusiastically willing to point out isolated American mistakes?

Why the incessant anti-American, islamo-apologist bullshit from you sparks?

"Less than 25% of Muslims blame al-Qaeda for 9/11 attacks.

An in-depth poll of four major Muslim countries has found that in all of them large majorities believe that undermining Islam is a key goal of US foreign policy.

Most want US military forces out of the Middle East and many approve of attacks on US troops there.

There is strong support for enhancing the role of Islam in all of the countries polled, through such measures as the imposition of sharia (Islamic law).

These findings are from surveys in Egypt, Morocco, Pakistan, and Indonesia conducted from December 2006 to February, 2007 by WorldPublicOpinion.org with support from the START Consortium at the University of Maryland.

Large majorities across all four countries believe the United States seeks to, “weaken and divide the Islamic world.”

On average 79 percent say they perceive this as a US goal, ranging from 73 percent in Indonesia and Pakistan to 92 percent in Egypt.

Equally large numbers perceive that the United States is trying to maintain “control over the oil resources of the Middle East” (average 79%).

Strong majorities (average 64%) even believe it is a US goal to “spread Christianity in the region.”

Are they moderate?

Malaysia Sun[link]

Nowadays falsehood stands erect and truth lies prostrate on the ground.

Wouldn’t we have preferred to hear an outright condemnation of violence, an argument for peaceful Islam, or a promise that extremists were a dying breed?

Only if you want the guy to be a democrat. An outright condemnation of violence? Where is anyone going to get that nowadays besides the hippy communes out west? Why would you want him to lie about the growth rates of extremism? Maybe he doesn’t know. There is nothing to be said one way or another in the nuances of a pragmatic response from a taxi driver. I imagine most of the maderates are jaded against both the US and the Jihadists. Please note Goon that moderate Islamic peoples are not guaged by how much they like the US. Foreigners are free to like or dislike us all they want. Many in the middle east are probably nonplussed, but to then rationalize that they are extremists because they aren’t sending us flowers is silly.

I challenge you [sparks] to find and post examples of moderate muslims willing to put their asses on the line in condemning islamic jihad....you ain’t gonna find it!!

Secularist rallies? Assad makes Islamic Jihadism punishable by death. Sure he meddles in the region and wants to protect his power - so do we. Assad knows that moderate secularism is his key to retaining power.

Yun Chu said, “You must strictly not express in words what is very significant. Both dragon and snake are killed in one blow.”

Bad example sparks. Assad is a butcher. Pop over to Lebanon and have a chat with Father Joseph Abu Ghazale, the parish priest at the Maronite Catholic Church of St Anthony’s, which is a bare 50 yards from the site where Lebanese Industry Minister Pierre Gemayel was gunned down by Assad’s assassins.

Bashar Assad’s government thugs are also held responsible for the assassination of many of Lebanon’s leaders:

# Gebran Tueni, a Lebanese patriot, member of parliament, and publisher of one of Lebanon’s leading newspapers. He was a well-known opponent of Syrian interference in Lebanon.

# Former Lebanese Prime Minister Rafik Hariri who was assassinated on Feb. 14, 2005 when explosives equivalent to around 300 kg of C4 were detonated as his motorcade drove past the Saint George Hotel in the Lebanese capital, Beirut.

As documented in the U.N. investigation, Syrian President Bashar al-Assad made his motives and threats well known, particularly to former Prime Minister Rafik Hariri. According to the U.N. report, Assad told Hariri: “I will crush anyone who tries to oppose our decisions.”

Assad makes Islamic Jihadism punishable by death.
Sparkie Arbuckle on May 6, 2007 at 10:16 am

That’s a joke --Try again sparks!!!

Nowadays falsehood stands erect and truth lies prostrate on the ground.

Bezu
how many assassinations of various leaders and regime changes are our thugs responsible for? Give me a break. We somehow have a legacy that allows us to more justly meddle over there than does Assad?
The same accusations can be leveled at us in order for someone else to justify a US regime change. BS. We arm people. We teach people how to kill opposition so they can stay in power if we like them. What high horse do you speak down from?
That is no rationalization. Without the moral authority, it boils down to ‘we can do it so we’re gonna’. Assad poses no real threat to the US. If we were citizens of Israel, the defensive justifications for war may be stronger, but we ain’t. At least I ain’t.

Yun Chu said, “You must strictly not express in words what is very significant. Both dragon and snake are killed in one blow.”

...how many assassinations of various leaders and regime changes are our thugs responsible for?

Not nearly enough.

"Give the lefties a pile of money, and they’ll spend it buying votes.” - Rush Limbaugh on the “bailout”.

Good point.

Una Salus Victus Nullam Sperare Salutem

...how many assassinations of various leaders and regime changes are our thugs responsible for?

Not nearly enough.

Yea. It is a good point. We don’t want to get bored in 20 or 30 years now do we?

Yun Chu said, “You must strictly not express in words what is very significant. Both dragon and snake are killed in one blow.”

If Clinton had taken out Bin Laden after the 1993 WTC bombing, imagine how different things would be today.  And that’s just one example.  Try thinking instead of reacting, Sparkie, if you can.

"Give the lefties a pile of money, and they’ll spend it buying votes.” - Rush Limbaugh on the “bailout”.

Islam is, by its own terms, an enemy religion.

Western civilization has clashed with it before and it is not a matter of if, but when, we clash again.

As Moonbats are wont to say, it is a religion of peace.

History and current events shows that to be a monsterous lie.  It is a violent, brutal system.

They have already attacked us here at home, inflicting more causualties than we suffered at Pearl Harbor.

Murderous versus Moderate Muslims?

Caedite eos! Novit enim Dominus qui sunt eius.

Deus Vult!

...for great justice

History and current events shows that to be a monsterous lie.  It is a violent, brutal system.

Right, zig, and as such Islam is incompatible with our Western civilization.  Any appearance of muslim co-existence with the west is strictly for show and profit.  Remember that deceit is one of their major ploys used since the time of Mohammed to lull the non-muslims to sleep.  Historically, drastically different cultures will eventually clash with one culture being either wiped out or subjugated. e.g. Romans vs Celts; American settlers vs Indians.

You don’t have to be a moron to be a liberal Democrat but it sure helps.

Thanks Bezu.  Reminders like that work better than coffee.

Furthermore,
If the meddling acts you point to, Bezu, in your claim that Assad is an extremist, can just as well be applied to us. Regional meddling, torture, subterfuge, whatever. Does it then follow that we are ‘extremists’? Clearly it doesn’t. So why does it make Assad an extremist?

Yun Chu said, “You must strictly not express in words what is very significant. Both dragon and snake are killed in one blow.”

Assad is a terrorist.  Duh.

"Give the lefties a pile of money, and they’ll spend it buying votes.” - Rush Limbaugh on the “bailout”.

Sparkie

Assad is an extremist, can just as well be applied to us.

further examples include burying to the kneck and stoning, hanging of homosexuals, binding the wrists of pregnant women and slitting their throats and targetting groups of children at ice cream stands with suicide bombers. 

We, Americans, can go horribly wrong but when things like that happen with us it’s considered an aberration and we take pains to limit it in the future.  Our bad is generally of Abu Graib nature and we send those people to prison for it, not laud them as heroes and freedom fighters.  When you claim we are just as bad, like it or not, it sounds like you try to legitimize terrorist actions.  We start with the assumption we like our side.

Give me a break. We somehow have a legacy that allows us to more justly meddle over there than does Assad?

What high horse do you speak down from?

That is no rationalization. Without the moral authority, it boils down to ‘we can do it so we’re gonna’

Assad is an extremist, can just as well be applied to us.

Sparkie,

You seem to have confused method with motive, the kind of lazy moral equivalence I would have thought was beneath you.

Perhaps, in defense of your stated position, you’ll explain exactly what you mean by “moral authority.” What constitutes such authority in your mind?  What is its source?

This is not an idle question.  Your implication that there is a moral equivalence between a consensual, self-governing, representative republic, such as ours, and the sort of forced, hereditary autocracy that rules Syria, Saudia Arabia, Egypt, Libya, Ethiopia, and Algeria, is exactly what is inherently wrong with the Left’s view of international relations, and why, coincidentally, the UN is such a dismal failure.

Incidentally, I am not suggesting that we have either the means, or the impetus for invading and overturning every tin-pot dictator from here to here to the Equator… even the most brutal Islamist ones.  But the fact that we may not be able to save each and every victim of each and every hurricane or tornado should hardly keep any of us from contributing to the Red Cross or the Salvation Army in the hopes of assisting those we can.

“Poverty of goods is easily cured; poverty of the mind is irreparable.”

When I first saw this title I thought “COOL! Some idiot locked hisself in the basement with a houka and suffocated!

Bottom line, there are some seriously fucked-in-the-head people in the world. And the majority of them want to die for their “god”.

Why are we arguing about this?

Una Salus Victus Nullam Sperare Salutem

I’m trying to find some support for Sparkie’s… assertions...Check this out and see if it measures up....[Sunni Muslim sheikhs join US in fighting Al Qaeda]

Good find Joel.
I think they could still have extremist views and co-operate with the US. Look at Saudi Arabia. I don’t know if how much they like us is a good litmus test. There might be some people in the middle east who support attacks on the US because they see us as deserving it for our meddling, and not merely for religious reasons. while they might not be ready to blow themselves up for god, nonetheless they support action against us, and also fail to meet certain criteria for extremism. Again, how much someone likes us or co-operates isn’t a good measure of their extremism.

Going after the guy, in the GWOT, with the gun or the bomb is like going after the hand of a murderer. we need to eliminate the mind that moves the hand. i.e. the religious extremism that teaches hate and self sacrifice. unfortunately is it wrapped up in a capitalist ‘flak jacket’ over in saudi arabia.

Yun Chu said, “You must strictly not express in words what is very significant. Both dragon and snake are killed in one blow.”

Again, how much someone likes us or co-operates isn’t a good measure of their extremism.

I think that is the measure of “extremism”, although you have purposely introduced that vague term to support your obsession with blaming Saudi Arabia for everything, instead of the actual terrorists.  Nice try at distraction, but still “no go”.

"Give the lefties a pile of money, and they’ll spend it buying votes.” - Rush Limbaugh on the “bailout”.