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Wednesday, October 25, 2006

“Social Justice”

This is a long story, and well worth the read.  It describes the outcome of several generations of the liberal concept of “social justice” and how it resulted in the oppression and incredible abuse of a number of women and children at the hands of a race hustler/cult leader in upscale Marin County.  His multiple “wives” were wealthy and educated women who felt guilty about “racism” in our society, and who endured abuse and the killing of some of their children at the hands of a man who preyed on their lifelong liberal sensibilities.  Here are some excerpts, but I urge you to read the whole thing.

From The Crime Library:

Late one night in November 2001, a group of women strolled into the emergency room of Kaiser Permanente Hospital in San Rafael, Calif., carrying a dead baby

[...]

The address the women listed on the hospital paper work was located in upscale Marin County - a place known for its liberal, hot-tubbing residents, not for neglected children.

[...]

Wright, a 45-year-old unemployed crack smoker whose graying dreadlocks hung down to his waist, preached a blend of New Age mysticism and black radicalism. He had convinced the women that they had to pay for the racist sins of their white ancestors by serving him financially, physically and sexually. They obliged, and together with another woman who managed to escape the cult, they bore Wright a total of 19 children.

[...]

The women Wright selected weren’t idiots. They were highly educated and came from upstanding backgrounds. One led the anti-apartheid movement at her college. One was an outstanding athlete. Another came from a family of millionaires. They were all ambitious young women who seemed destined to live full and happy lives until they crossed paths with Winnfred Wright.

[...]

While he attended law school at the University of San Francisco in the late ‘70s, he also worked for the federal government, researching Medicare claims. During this period, he met and married a young black woman in a non-binding civil ceremony that was attended by both of their families.

[...]

A couple of years later, he returned to San Francisco and moved in with Carol Bremner, a soft-spoken woman with long blonde hair he’d met in an elevator and who also frequented reggae clubs.

Bremner became the first of Wright’s many concubines.

In many ways, she was a perfect match for him. She’d been a leader in the UC Berkeley anti-apartheid movement that protested racist government policies in South Africa and was therefore already infused with guilt at white privilege. And she was hip to the Bay Area reggae-Rastafarian community.

There’s a lot more, but you get the idea.  It takes a strong stomach to read it all, but if you want to get an idea of the real goals of the left for our society, it is invaluable.
Whenever you hear anyone preaching “social justice”, remember this bit of history.

Comments

Whenever you hear anyone preaching “social justice”, remember this bit of history.

I would hate to taint the whole ‘social justice’ idea by remembering what some crackhead did to a bunch of stoned chicks.
And whenever I hear anyone ‘preaching’ I tend not to take it very seriously.


Yun Chu said, “You must strictly not express in words what is very significant. Both dragon and snake are killed in one blow.”

Sparkie Arbuckle on October 26, 2006 at 03:52 am
Avatar for Anarchist Vegan: The Final Insult

Robert108 pretty much hit the nail on the head with that post. I always thought that paranoid dellusional Rastafarians, with minds melted by drugs, abusing ones harem of psychiatrically disturbed women, and malnourishing their children, as the very definition of social justice.

AV...if you had included “anti-American Marxist” in your definition of social justice then I would have agreed with you.


"There are different kinds of truths for different kinds of people. There are truths appropriate for children; truths that are appropriate for students; truths that are appropriate for educated adults; and truths that are appropriate for highly educated adults, and the notion that there should be one set of truths available to everyone is a modern democratic fallacy. It doesn’t work.”

Irving Kristol

MikeAdamson on October 26, 2006 at 04:16 am

I was is West Marin, CA once. There was a lady wearing burlap and tin foil held on with pieces of tied bailing twine. We figured she was getting ready to down some Kool-Aid and join her brethren on a UFO (in the tail of a comet), but she assured us that she was just ‘preventing cancer & bee stings’.


Yun Chu said, “You must strictly not express in words what is very significant. Both dragon and snake are killed in one blow.”

Sparkie Arbuckle on October 26, 2006 at 04:45 am

AV: If you read the article, the guy didn’t start out as a “deranged Rastafarian”; he came from an intact, middle class home.  He was also polluted by the “social justice” movements of the Sixties, as were the women, who didn’t start out as “psychiatrically disturbed”.  He had a family of his own, until he was seduced by the “social justice” message of the black power movement.  It turned him from a productive citizen into an unproductive one, and he spread that message to the liberal women who were vulnerable to his message of guilt, based on the “social justice” consciousness of the time.  What he(and they) did isn’t in itself “social justice”; it is the logical outcome of “social justice” values and thinking.  That is the message of this bit of history.


"Give the lefties a pile of money, and they’ll spend it buying votes.” - Rush Limbaugh on the “bailout”.

robert108 on October 26, 2006 at 06:53 am

it is the logical outcome of “social justice” values and thinking

there is no logic in that article at all. to say that type of shit follows in some rational manner from the movements of the 1960’s is bullshit. I’m sorry robert108, but you’re a bit too far off the deep end today. Nutball.


Yun Chu said, “You must strictly not express in words what is very significant. Both dragon and snake are killed in one blow.”

Sparkie Arbuckle on October 26, 2006 at 07:38 am

Just read the article; it’s clear as a bell.  The “social justice” beliefs and values of the left produced that atrocious and deadly situation.  I understand your defensiveness and lack of concern for the victims of your leftie belief system, but the truth is the truth, no matter how much you bluster and spin.


"Give the lefties a pile of money, and they’ll spend it buying votes.” - Rush Limbaugh on the “bailout”.

robert108 on October 26, 2006 at 08:00 am

BTW, this is a report of what happened in real life; the whole truth about all sides of the story.  It’s not an opinion piece.


"Give the lefties a pile of money, and they’ll spend it buying votes.” - Rush Limbaugh on the “bailout”.

robert108 on October 26, 2006 at 08:14 am

the dude smoked $1200/day of crack. thats alot. i don’t think his actions or the pressures he exerted on his concubines say anything about non-crackheads.


Yun Chu said, “You must strictly not express in words what is very significant. Both dragon and snake are killed in one blow.”

Sparkie Arbuckle on October 26, 2006 at 11:32 am

Easy-to-follow instructions:

1.  Follow the link
2. Read the whole story
3.  Notice how he started out; from an intact, middle-class home; how he got married; how he went to work for the govt; how he got radicalized by the “black power” movement, threw away his normal life, chose to follow the “social justice” values of that movement, turned to smoking crack and generally went downhill, resulting in his forming a “black power” cult, recruiting a bunch of liberal women, producing babies and abusing all his liberal cult members, who he persuaded with his “social justice” propaganda to support him in his twisted ways.

What part of all this don’t you understand?  Everything that happened to these people was sourced in the leftie concept of “social justice”.  Get it?


"Give the lefties a pile of money, and they’ll spend it buying votes.” - Rush Limbaugh on the “bailout”.

robert108 on October 26, 2006 at 11:40 am

Here’s how it works, Sparkie:  First “cause”, then “effect”. 
First, he became recruited by leftie “social justice”, then he started smoking crack.  Get it?


"Give the lefties a pile of money, and they’ll spend it buying votes.” - Rush Limbaugh on the “bailout”.

robert108 on October 26, 2006 at 11:45 am
Avatar for Anarchist Vegan: The Final Insult

Robert108: I read the entire article and the conclusions you seem to have reached just plain amaze me. I guess you are not any sort of scientist type. A sample of one? You haven’t addressed correlation or causation. Buddy, I hate to say this but your argument seems to be just madness.

AV: Thanks for reading the whole article.  That is all I can expect.  I never expected that you would reach the same conclusion from the evidence that I did.  You look upon it as some sort of statistical exercise, where I view it as a court case(which it was) and evaluate the evidence.  I think deductively, and you think inductively.  You ignore the influences in the man’s and women’s lives and the effects those influences had on them.  They were all followers of a certain ideology that preaches a certain standard of what they call “social justice”, and it produced certain results.  If you believe that input influences output(or outcome), then this case might give you something to think about.  Not everyone exposed to the same influences will do exactly the same thing, because human beings are unique.  This might even represent a “worst case scenario” of those social influences, but that still might stimulate some questions about the validity of their shared beliefs about “social justice”.  Hmmm?  I simply wanted to illustrate where the need to impose “social justice” on others might lead, especially in the area of race relations.


"Give the lefties a pile of money, and they’ll spend it buying votes.” - Rush Limbaugh on the “bailout”.

robert108 on October 26, 2006 at 07:18 pm

robert108:  I don’t agree with your conclusions, but I can see where you are coming from.  Imposing “social justice” might lead to your conclusions, but imposing anything on people could lead to a conclusion that nobody has thought of.  There are a multitude of conclusions that could come out of imposing “social justice.”

bak72 on October 26, 2006 at 07:29 pm

bak72: When I first heard the ideology that drove Wright, I could have predicted that it would lead, at least in some cases, to something very much like what happened.  Wright was led to reject his upbringing for a belief system that entitled him to revenge on “white people”, and he got his revenge on those women and children, at least in his mind.  Those women shared that ideology, and that made them willing victims of his peculiar idea of entitlement.  It all fit together, and you see the result.


"Give the lefties a pile of money, and they’ll spend it buying votes.” - Rush Limbaugh on the “bailout”.

robert108 on October 26, 2006 at 07:33 pm

r108 said

You ignore the influences in the man’s and women’s lives and the effects those influences had on them.  They were all followers of a certain ideology that preaches a certain standard of what they call “social justice”, and it produced certain results.

How does one explain how individuals with similar backgrounds turn out fine? It’s possible that the guy’s background did contribute to his makeup but to lay it all at the feet of progressive thinking seems a stretch. It only makes sense as an explanation if one is predisposed to make the conclusion you do.


"There are different kinds of truths for different kinds of people. There are truths appropriate for children; truths that are appropriate for students; truths that are appropriate for educated adults; and truths that are appropriate for highly educated adults, and the notion that there should be one set of truths available to everyone is a modern democratic fallacy. It doesn’t work.”

Irving Kristol

MikeAdamson on October 27, 2006 at 04:42 am

How does one explain how individuals with similar backgrounds turn out fine?I never said it was 100%; only that this is an example of the possibilities inherent in “social justice” thinking.  It is a “worst case” scenario, which should make us cautious about supporting this type of thinking, like teaching it in schools, for instance. It’s possible that the guy’s background did contribute to his makeup but to lay it all at the feet of progressive thinking seems a stretch.I did no such thing; you notice I used the term “influence”, right? It only makes sense as an explanation if one is predisposed to make the conclusion you do.I disagree.  Teaching people that they are entitled to some sort of revenge for past actions by individuals of a certain skin color is toxic, even if no one acts on those ideas.

I suppose you think it was all just a coincidence, then?


"Give the lefties a pile of money, and they’ll spend it buying votes.” - Rush Limbaugh on the “bailout”.

robert108 on October 27, 2006 at 04:51 am
Avatar for aNONOMISLY

those were stupid women, that for some reason remind me of the laughing cult , brother Hinn , this guys and the farting preacher, err those that actually believe them.  That they had everything and were supposedly educated makes them all the more stupid.

aNONOMISLY on October 27, 2006 at 05:01 am
Avatar for aNONOMISLY

It also reminds me of all those Hollywood-type and wealthy people falling head over heal for Scientology.

aNONOMISLY on October 27, 2006 at 05:02 am

r108...I don’t know if it was a coincidence or not. I would know better after I studied a sample of similar offenders, investigated the circumstances of their upbringing and identified the presence of absence of “social justice” as a variable.

You said

I never said it was 100%; only that this is an example of the possibilities inherent in “social justice” thinking.

Fair enough.

and then

It is a “worst case” scenario, which should make us cautious about supporting this type of thinking, like teaching it in schools, for instance.

So if I can find an example of an individual who believes in “free choices by free people” who committed similar crimes then we should be cautious about teaching that in school as well?


"There are different kinds of truths for different kinds of people. There are truths appropriate for children; truths that are appropriate for students; truths that are appropriate for educated adults; and truths that are appropriate for highly educated adults, and the notion that there should be one set of truths available to everyone is a modern democratic fallacy. It doesn’t work.”

Irving Kristol

MikeAdamson on October 27, 2006 at 05:05 am

aNON: They were not initially “stupid”, and they were definitely educated, although their education in leftie ideology didn’t seem to help them.  You may judge them as stupid in an ex post facto sense, but the point of the reality here is that their belief in their particular brand of “social justice” led directly to their stupid behavior.  In other words, their liberal sensibilities made them stupid.


"Give the lefties a pile of money, and they’ll spend it buying votes.” - Rush Limbaugh on the “bailout”.

robert108 on October 27, 2006 at 05:08 am

MikeA: If believing in “free people making free choices"(an economic description) enumerated ideas that led directly to antisocial/abusive behavior, like was demonstrated in this case, then of course.  You won’t find it, though.  Very snarky of you.
This guy was preaching the “social justice” of black people being entitled to revenge against white people, like he was taught by the black power movement; that is taught as a form of “social justice”, and that was his reason for abusing those women and children.  What part of that don’t you understand?  He acted in accordance with his beliefs about “social justice”.


"Give the lefties a pile of money, and they’ll spend it buying votes.” - Rush Limbaugh on the “bailout”.

robert108 on October 27, 2006 at 05:13 am

It also reminds me of all those Hollywood-type and wealthy people falling head over heal for Scientology.

Nice way to work in demonization of religion here; have you any actual examples of Scientologists engaging in this type of behavior because of any specific beliefs held by Scientology, or are you just distracting with some anti-religion BS?


"Give the lefties a pile of money, and they’ll spend it buying votes.” - Rush Limbaugh on the “bailout”.

robert108 on October 27, 2006 at 05:15 am
Avatar for aNONOMISLY

aNON: They were not initially “stupid”, and they were definitely educated, although their education in leftie ideology didn’t seem to help them.  You may judge them as stupid in an ex post facto sense, but the point of the reality here is that their belief in their particular brand of “social justice” led directly to their stupid behavior.  In other words, their liberal sensibilities made them stupid.

you just gave ammunition to those that may want to compare the action of certain “Christian” con-artists (as the ones I linked to) and cult with true Chistianity…

..I believe neither if a fair comparison.

aNONOMISLY on October 27, 2006 at 05:19 am

Robert108. It seems you must be up to like $600/day in crack… judging from your conclusions. Either that or your 6th grade education just isn’t cutting it. I clicked, read, and so forth… before I made the $1200/day crackhead point above.
You want us to correlate the idea that black people should be treated equally in our society to any other person to the outcome, which you argue follows logically, of a black man who turns to smoking crack and sexually, psychologically, and physically abusing a harem of white women who he has brainwashed with ‘black power’ rhetoric. That is not only foolish, its racist. You are trying to imply that if white people treat every race fairly in society, then our women will be abducted and subjected to various kinds of abuse at the hands of the people we seek to treat fairly.
Well, this is an interesting point in time to correct you on the definition of dialectics you gave the other day.
You said dialectics is the framing of an issue as a choice between one of two di-poles. Incorrect. It is true that dialectics is based around the idea of a thesis and an anti-thesis, but there is a third thing which results from these two; synthesis.
Perhaps we could look at the black power movement of the sixties as being the antithesis of slavery. These people were responding in a radical way to what they saw as the extreme injustice of slavery. Winnefred Wright, nonetheless, has absolutely nothing to do with the black power movement of the sixties and early seventies. He’s a crackhead who misappropriated exaggerated guilt felt by succeptable rich white chicks. Any generalizing from that scenario is fruitless and without any logical merit.
The ‘synthesis’ (the 3rd aspect of dialectics, neglected in the definition you have previously supplied) resulting from the thesis or slavery and the radical reaction of the black power movement, the antithesis, would perhaps be a society where NEITHER THE WHITES OR THE BLACKS SEEK TO ASSERT THEIR SUPERIORITY. That would be ‘social justice’ robert108… not the bullshit you suggest.
NOTICE NONE OF YOUR CRONIES HAVE BACKED UP YOUR LOGIC BECAUSE YOU ARE REACHING, ITS STUPID, AND YOU ARE MAKING YOUR RACISM PUBLIC IN A TRANSPARENT MANNER. Kudos.


Yun Chu said, “You must strictly not express in words what is very significant. Both dragon and snake are killed in one blow.”

Sparkie Arbuckle on October 27, 2006 at 05:26 am

Nice try at framing the messenger as a racist because I point out the obvious consequences of black racism in this case.  I made no general case for racism here; as a matter of fact(not your strong point, I see), I insist that this case illustrates the cooperation of the racism of all the individuals involved(except for the children, of course).  I have always regarded the left’s “social justice” teachings as inherently racist, and this case bears that out quite nicely.
I repeat that his crack habit was a result, not a cause, here.  He was not a crackhead before he was exposed to the left’s teachings of “social justice”.  He chose to react to that by becoming a street person, becoming addicted to crack, and eventually becoming an abusive cult leader.  He was simply acting out the values he was taught as a form of “social justice”.  He didn’t brainwash the women, btw; they came to him because of their own liberal brainwashing in “social justice”.
I should have said “Marxist dialectic”, btw, but then you knew that, and chose to be snarkey about it.  Shame on you.
I agree that it is real social justice when no one is judged by the color of their skin, but that isn’t what the lefties preach, is it?

It is the left that is racist(like this example) and homophobic(Foley).  It is obvious to anyone who can think; your emotional reactivity here is typical of lefties.  Grow up.


"Give the lefties a pile of money, and they’ll spend it buying votes.” - Rush Limbaugh on the “bailout”.

robert108 on October 27, 2006 at 05:47 am

I’m not one of r108’s “cronies” but I will say that I have no doubt at all that he would have posted the article had the offender been white, black, green or indigo. The issue with r108 is not race but the connection in his mind between liberal thought and the resulting ills of the world. He’s still wrong of course but not because he’s racist.


"There are different kinds of truths for different kinds of people. There are truths appropriate for children; truths that are appropriate for students; truths that are appropriate for educated adults; and truths that are appropriate for highly educated adults, and the notion that there should be one set of truths available to everyone is a modern democratic fallacy. It doesn’t work.”

Irving Kristol

MikeAdamson on October 27, 2006 at 05:50 am

Mike A.

I’m not one of r108’s “cronies”

Deny it all you want, we know the truth.


What’s going to happen to US industry when the global warming extremists like John McCain double the price of electricity?  I would think all these factories will close and set up in countries where they aren’t scared of technology.


The Whistler's signature
The Whistler on October 27, 2006 at 05:54 am

MikeA: You are correct.  That case is an extreme example of what I call “toxic liberalness”.  You will notice that I never mentioned race in any of my comments on the post, as I think it is only relevant as far as what liberals teach as a part of their concept of “social justice”; that black people are entitled victims.  The racism is theirs, in the form of a skin color judgment, both ways.


"Give the lefties a pile of money, and they’ll spend it buying votes.” - Rush Limbaugh on the “bailout”.

robert108 on October 27, 2006 at 05:55 am
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I won’t say that Robert’s all that wrong when he connects liberal thinking to a lot of the ills in the world.  I don’t go as far as he does in attributing cynicism and malicious intent to liberals, but certainly the decline of individualism and the rise of collectivism is what is at root of a lot of the world’s ills.

We need less government involvement in people’s lives, not more.  We need people to be more independent, not less.  Liberals oppose those things, generally.


When the people fear their government, there is tyranny; when the government fears the people, there is liberty.

-- Thomas Jefferson

Rob’s recently listened-to songs:

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Rob on October 27, 2006 at 05:57 am

Bullshit robert108.
2002393514501677250_rs.jpg
Hegel’s dialectic never ends… keeps evolving… Marx’s dialectic ends with the synthesis of a classless society. Nonetheless, Marx still uses ‘synthesis’ as the third ‘pole’ in his dialectics.


Yun Chu said, “You must strictly not express in words what is very significant. Both dragon and snake are killed in one blow.”

Sparkie Arbuckle on October 27, 2006 at 05:58 am
Avatar for aNONOMISLY

he’s wrong for the same reason anyone trying to conflate God’s Christianity, with the Christianity practiced by the con-artist-type preachers I link to here ..as well as countless number of other fake preachers and so called Christian sects.. would be wrong.

aNONOMISLY on October 27, 2006 at 05:59 am

Just for you, Sparkie:

Crying “racist” is the crutch the left uses when they don’t have anything else to lean on.
Pilgrim on October 27, 2006 at 09:54 am


"Give the lefties a pile of money, and they’ll spend it buying votes.” - Rush Limbaugh on the “bailout”.

robert108 on October 27, 2006 at 05:59 am

...God’s Christianity…

What do you mean by that?  Definition, please.

Sparkie: Just because Marx called his flawed thinking there “a synthesis” doesn’t mean it really was.  I can call my hamburger “filet mignon”, but that doesn’t make it so.  Marx was pretty much wrong about everything, this included.  He was a propagandist of the first order, and he has obviously seduced you.


"Give the lefties a pile of money, and they’ll spend it buying votes.” - Rush Limbaugh on the “bailout”.

robert108 on October 27, 2006 at 06:02 am

Dude.
Obviously some others saw the motovation for my comment otherwise they wouldn’t have piped in to defend your illogical ass.
Study your dialectics there homie. Get your ‘facts’ straight.


Yun Chu said, “You must strictly not express in words what is very significant. Both dragon and snake are killed in one blow.”

Sparkie Arbuckle on October 27, 2006 at 06:03 am

Sparkie: Get your emotions under control; you’re imploding, dude.  This case is a clear example of the flaws of the leftie concept of “social justice” when it comes to race.  You can spin, bluster, deny and distract, but those kids are still dead and abused, and that is squarely on the head of liberal beliefs, in this case.  Shame on you!


"Give the lefties a pile of money, and they’ll spend it buying votes.” - Rush Limbaugh on the “bailout”.

robert108 on October 27, 2006 at 06:07 am

I never said I am a Marxist or that I am sympathetic to Marx. FUCK YOU. I said you were wrong and you were.


Yun Chu said, “You must strictly not express in words what is very significant. Both dragon and snake are killed in one blow.”

Sparkie Arbuckle on October 27, 2006 at 06:10 am
Avatar for aNONOMISLY

What do you mean by that?  Definition, please.

..the one that doesn’t try to swindle people out of their money, lol.

On a more serious note, I was think of more along the line of the love-though-neighbor main stream Christianity I was taught I was taught at the private Evangelical school I attended (in daily religious and Sunday Bible classes) ..the one that instilled a natural and amost obsessive love for learning in me, during y most important formative years(4 yrs/old-11yrs/old)

aNONOMISLY on October 27, 2006 at 06:11 am
Avatar for aNONOMISLY

rob, you’re opening a pandora box for those that may want to attibute the action of Christian extremists to traditional Christianity..

aNONOMISLY on October 27, 2006 at 06:14 am

To blame liberal beliefs for the actins of a crackhead is to be a crackhead. He was not driven to smoking crack by liberal values. robert108 has lost it. he’s not only suggesting bullshit definitions of dialectics, he’s smoking crack! well, i blame the liberals… with all their crack pipes for the poor programs…


Yun Chu said, “You must strictly not express in words what is very significant. Both dragon and snake are killed in one blow.”

Sparkie Arbuckle on October 27, 2006 at 06:21 am

I never said I am a Marxist or that I am sympathetic to Marx.Then why are you defending his BS? FUCK YOU. I said you were wrong and you were.Even if I were(and I’m not), you wouldn’t know it, seeing as how you are obviously having an emotional meltdown over this.


"Give the lefties a pile of money, and they’ll spend it buying votes.” - Rush Limbaugh on the “bailout”.

robert108 on October 27, 2006 at 06:23 am

To blame liberal beliefs for the actins of a crackhead is to be a crackhead.

No, it’s not.  You can’t do simple logic, apparently.

He was not driven to smoking crack by liberal values.Actually, he was.  It was clearly explained in the article.  Cause first, then effect.  Your ex post facto argument seems be that he was always a crackhead because he started doing that.

"Give the lefties a pile of money, and they’ll spend it buying votes.” - Rush Limbaugh on the “bailout”.

robert108 on October 27, 2006 at 06:31 am

TW...keep it down or I’ll be forced to mention your collection of Streisand albums.

r108 said

This case is a clear example of the flaws of the leftie concept of “social justice” when it comes to race.

I think what our rather profane friend is trying to say is that it’s clearly not such a case. The “social justice” espoused by this obviously disturbed mind is analogous to the “patriotism” of the Oklahoma City bombers...it’s not honest to impute such twisted thinking to those that advocate “patriotism” and/or “social justice” in society at large.


"There are different kinds of truths for different kinds of people. There are truths appropriate for children; truths that are appropriate for students; truths that are appropriate for educated adults; and truths that are appropriate for highly educated adults, and the notion that there should be one set of truths available to everyone is a modern democratic fallacy. It doesn’t work.”

Irving Kristol

MikeAdamson on October 27, 2006 at 06:35 am

TW...keep it down or I’ll be forced to mention your collection of Streisand albums.

Lies all lies!


What’s going to happen to US industry when the global warming extremists like John McCain double the price of electricity?  I would think all these factories will close and set up in countries where they aren’t scared of technology.


The Whistler's signature
The Whistler on October 27, 2006 at 06:40 am
Avatar for aNONOMISLY

MikeAdamson, stop attribuing extremists that bomb Planned Parenthood clinics and protest at the funural of our brave soldiers to Christianity.

aNONOMISLY on October 27, 2006 at 06:40 am

I am not defending Marx at all. I was simply pointing out how wrong you were when you defined dialects. As usual, you kept riding the dead horse, saying you were talking about Marx’s dialectics. I was simply pointing out that yes, indeed, you were wrong despite your assurances to the contrary. In the spirit of douchebagedness, you twisted it into a sign of my love for Marx, probably motovated by anger at the fact that you were wrong. Well, you were wrong.


Yun Chu said, “You must strictly not express in words what is very significant. Both dragon and snake are killed in one blow.”

Sparkie Arbuckle on October 27, 2006 at 06:40 am

MikeA: As I have said several times, this is a worst case scenario.  Preaching that all “black” people have victim entitlement over all “white” people, however, is wrong, even if it doesn’t result in such a severe sequence of events as transpired in Marin County.  I don’t think that particular teaching has anything to do with real social justice, just as the OK City bombing had nothing to do with real patriotism. According to Timothy McVeigh, btw, his motive was revenge for the FBI shooting at Ruby Ridge, not patriotism, so your equivalence isn’t accurate. The perpetrator wasn’t “disturbed” until after his contact with that particular brand of “social justice”, btw, which is clearly pointed out in the article.  Unless you claim some psychic ability to know that he was a crackhead when he was growing up in an intact home with loving parents, of course.  It was only after his contact with liberal “social justice” in the form of the black power version of race relations that he abandoned his productive lifestyle, started living on the streets, and started smoking crack.


"Give the lefties a pile of money, and they’ll spend it buying votes.” - Rush Limbaugh on the “bailout”.

robert108 on October 27, 2006 at 06:53 am

Sparkie: Nice try at distraction, but no dice.  Trolling for an argument over Marxism isn’t appropriate to the subject of this thread.  I never mentioned dialectic in either my post or this thread, until you brought it up to distract from your lack of substance on the argument in question.  If you want to keep up your meaningless and profane monologue, go ahead.


"Give the lefties a pile of money, and they’ll spend it buying votes.” - Rush Limbaugh on the “bailout”.

robert108 on October 27, 2006 at 07:00 am
Avatar for HG

R108,

“Social justice” is ambiguous at best. When used by liberals, the term refers to anything but justice.  Social justice advocates a gov’t controlled (restrained) market combined with redistributed wages and wealth.  It is motivated by greed directed at other’s properity, i.e. envy.

Wright was not a product of his environment.  Depravity in humanity may be encouraged by “social justice”, but ultimately it is Wright who was wrong.

HG on October 27, 2006 at 07:16 am

rob, you’re opening a pandora box for those that may want to attibute the
action of Christian extremists to traditional Christianity..

Thanks for admitting I have a valid case.  If you can find anything in the teachings of Christ that support such extremism, you can make your case, but I don’t think you will be able to do that. 
In this example, the leftie “social justice” teachings were directly in line with justifying this fellow’s extremism.  Nice try, though.


"Give the lefties a pile of money, and they’ll spend it buying votes.” - Rush Limbaugh on the “bailout”.

robert108 on October 27, 2006 at 07:17 am

On a more serious note, I was think of more along the line of the love-though-neighbor main stream Christianity…

You didn’t answer my question, did you?  What is “God’s Christianity”?  I ask this in the spirit of the usual construct of Christ being the Son of God, btw.


"Give the lefties a pile of money, and they’ll spend it buying votes.” - Rush Limbaugh on the “bailout”.

robert108 on October 27, 2006 at 07:19 am
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Sparkie you wouldn’t happen to be an Atheist who believes in Darwinism, would you?

HG on October 27, 2006 at 07:24 am
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Thanks for admitting I have a valid case.  If you can find anything in the teachings of Christ that support such extremism, you can make your case, but I don’t think you will be able to do that. 
In this example, the leftie “social justice” teachings were directly in line with justifying this fellow’s extremism.  Nice try, though.

Thank for making my point.  I’m acquainted with many good liberals and none believe white should become the slaves of blacks as a form of pay pack for the enslavement of African Americans in the past.

aNONOMISLY on October 27, 2006 at 07:43 am
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..or black-crack heads for that matters

aNONOMISLY on October 27, 2006 at 08:01 am

HG:

R108,

“Social justice” is ambiguous at best. When used by liberals, the term refers to anything but justice.  Social justice advocates a gov’t controlled (restrained) market combined with redistributed wages and wealth.  It is motivated by greed directed at other’s properity, i.e. envy.It also includes victim entitlement of one group over another, due to selective acknowledgement of past “injustices”, as in this case.

Wright was not a product of his environment. He certainly was, in that he chose to abandon his productive middle-class life for one on the streets, living out what he was taught about being a victim of “white racism”.  He could have ignored it, but chose to follow it instead. Depravity in humanity may be encouraged by “social justice”, but ultimately it is Wright who was wrong. This is an ex post facto judgment.


"Give the lefties a pile of money, and they’ll spend it buying votes.” - Rush Limbaugh on the “bailout”.

robert108 on October 27, 2006 at 08:11 am

Thank for making my point.  I’m acquainted with many good liberals and none believe white should become the slaves of blacks as a form of pay pack for the enslavement of African Americans in the past.

I have said many times now that this is a worst case scenario.  Your liberal friends probably believe in other types of entitlement programs which have wasted astronomical sums of our confiscated wages, and are probably in favor of so-called “affirmative action” that institutes racial quotas in hiring.  These are less toxic examples of leftie “social justice”, which have cause harm as well.


"Give the lefties a pile of money, and they’ll spend it buying votes.” - Rush Limbaugh on the “bailout”.

robert108 on October 27, 2006 at 08:15 am

..or black-crack heads for that matters

He wasn’t a crackhead until he was exposed to that particular variation of leftie “social justice”.  Get that straight.


"Give the lefties a pile of money, and they’ll spend it buying votes.” - Rush Limbaugh on the “bailout”.

robert108 on October 27, 2006 at 08:17 am
Avatar for aNONOMISLY

I have said many times now that this is a worst case scenario.  Your liberal friends probably believe in other types of entitlement programs which have wasted astronomical sums of our confiscated wages, and are probably in favor of so-called “affirmative action” that institutes racial quotas in hiring.  These are less toxic examples of leftie “social justice”, which have cause harm as well.

worst case scenerio, ..as is Christian extremist bombing Planned Parenthood clinics? ..as certain Christian women that misinterpret the Bible to take God’s command to summit to their husbands to the point where they practically become their slaves if their husband so desires it?

aNONOMISLY on October 27, 2006 at 08:32 am

worst case scenerio, ..as is Christian extremist bombing Planned Parenthood clinics? As I said before, if you can find any of Christ’s teachings that support those actions, you might have a case.  I’m still waiting for that...as certain Christian women that misinterpret the Bible to take God’s command to summit to their husbands to the point where they practically become their slaves if their husband so desires it?Sounds more like Islam to me.  I don’t know any Christian families that are like that, but you are welcome to fantasize.  It might be better to deal with the reality of leftie “social justice” in our society, but attacking Christianity obviously has more appeal for you.  In any case, it’s off-topic for this thread.


"Give the lefties a pile of money, and they’ll spend it buying votes.” - Rush Limbaugh on the “bailout”.

robert108 on October 27, 2006 at 08:36 am
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I’ve personaly know of a lady that allowed her husband to constantly bit her and wouldn’t call the police on him because she thought that would be against the will of God of having her submit to him. ..some people misinterpret stuff.

Look at the children that are forced married to strangers often times several decades their elders in the Fundamentalist Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints. ..some people misinterpret stuff.

..it would be wrong to attribute any of these stuff to main-stream Christianity.

aNONOMISLY on October 27, 2006 at 08:53 am

aNON: Nice, but off-topic.  The “social justice” teachings of the Church of Liberalism directly instruct white people to feel guilty about past abuses of black people, even if they haven’t done any of it, and also teach black people that they are entitled to compensation for the past abuses of others of the same skin color, even if they aren’t related in any other way to those people of the past.  Not equivalent at all to misinterpretations of Christian teachings.  In fact, the abuse of those children was a direct result of taking those liberal teachings very literally.


"Give the lefties a pile of money, and they’ll spend it buying votes.” - Rush Limbaugh on the “bailout”.

robert108 on October 27, 2006 at 09:09 am
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My God! That Church almost sounds as extreme of the Fundamentalist Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints, ..almost, but not quite.

aNONOMISLY on October 27, 2006 at 09:18 am

aNON: If you insist on wanting to talk about your own topic, please post your own article on that subject.  The subject of leftie social justice must make you uncomfortable, else you wouldn’t be trying so hard to change the subject.


"Give the lefties a pile of money, and they’ll spend it buying votes.” - Rush Limbaugh on the “bailout”.

robert108 on October 27, 2006 at 09:23 am

r108 said

The “social justice” teachings of the Church of Liberalism directly instruct white people to feel guilty about past abuses of black people, even if they haven’t done any of it, and also teach black people that they are entitled to compensation for the past abuses of others of the same skin color, even if they aren’t related in any other way to those people of the past.

Hold on to your hat but I don’t think that there is a “teaching” of “social justice” in a uniform sense. My concept of social justice flows from my Christian beliefs whereas others take it from purely secular sources. A fun topic though...thanks for posting.


"There are different kinds of truths for different kinds of people. There are truths appropriate for children; truths that are appropriate for students; truths that are appropriate for educated adults; and truths that are appropriate for highly educated adults, and the notion that there should be one set of truths available to everyone is a modern democratic fallacy. It doesn’t work.”

Irving Kristol

MikeAdamson on October 27, 2006 at 09:53 am
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rob, my point is that some extremist in both side take stuff to an extreme. e.g. some influentioal Christian extremist would like to make a theocracy of the United States, but main-stream Christians do not advocate that and it doesn’t mean that it should be attributed to them because some Christian extremist want that. I don’t think you’re typical liberal want white Americans to feel guilty about slavery and its aftermath ...much less the extreme situation here, though they do probably feel our government should be used to right the systematic injustices of the past. Remember that certaing governments here mandated segreations as late as the 19970s(?) ..the parents and grand parents a great number of African-American lived their adult life through it.  We stll live today with the direct effect of slavery and the systematic segregations instuted by our goverments in the not to distance past. ..that some may want our government to take an active role in trying to find a solution doesn’t mean they want whites Amecian that had nothing to with it to feel guilty about it.

e.g. I’m perfectly Ok with the government funding religious schools directly (as many main-stream Christian do) but that doesn’t mean I’m for the U.S been turned into a theocracy.

I agree with the liberals that believe a great injustice was committed by our government for hundreds of years and up to the very recent past, but I disagree in the way we should go about fixing it.  I think we should go about it by making a great 0-12 quality education available to every poor American as they way of doing that. though I feel that would require getting rid of teacher Union, and going the way of having students choose their school and not having the school choose them, but student choose their school. ...but to make sure every choice available is a quality choice. 

..ran out time, wont proof read. Ciao!

aNONOMISLY on October 27, 2006 at 10:03 am
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..not because their black, but beacause of the systematic injustices committed by our governments.

final musing today:

I think the black “leaders” of today have really let down the great black leader of the past. Those that were arbitrarily denied the government from sitting in front of the bus, yet had the courage to do so. Those that were beat by the white people of the time and abused by the police of the time and put in jail for their civil sit-in in protest of unjust laws.  Not only MLK and the civil right leaders of the time, but also your typical black and white person that helped them fight against the systematic discrimination by the governments at the time.

Ciao!

aNONOMISLY on October 27, 2006 at 10:12 am

Those that were beat by the white people of the time and abused by the police of the time and put in jail for their civil sit-in in protest of unjust laws.

You leave out a very important fact: those “white people” were a very specific group; members of a political party which became known as the “Dixiecrats” who were Democrats who rabidly supported segregation in this country.  They originated in the South during the Reconstruction Period after the Civil War.  Their distinguishing value was that they hated the Republican Party and their President, Abraham Lincoln, much like the Dems of today.


"Give the lefties a pile of money, and they’ll spend it buying votes.” - Rush Limbaugh on the “bailout”.

robert108 on October 27, 2006 at 12:36 pm

rob, my point is that some extremist in both side take stuff to an extreme.“Everybody does it” isn’t a substantive argument, unfortunately; you are really just trying to demonize Christians here, which compounds the damage. I don’t think you’re typical liberal want white Americans to feel guilty about slavery and its aftermath ...That is exactly what they want; that is the way they justify confiscating our money to pay for racist welfare entitlements.much less the extreme situation here, though they do probably feel our government should be used to right the systematic injustices of the past.You can’t have it both ways.  Those Southern Dems who actually committed the racial crimes are long dead, and revenging on people today on the basis of their skin color is just wrong.  It would be more just to go after them for their political affiliation. Remember that certaing governments here mandated segreations as late as the 19970s(?) ..the parents and grand parents a great number of African-American lived their adult life through it.  We stll live today with the direct effect of slavery and the systematic segregations instuted by our goverments in the not to distance past. ..And that was done by Southern Democrats, so it would still be more just to go after present-day Dems, even though that would also be wrong.  You can’t right those wrongs by using the govt as an instrument of revenge.that some may want our government to take an active role in trying to find a solution doesn’t mean they want whites Amecian that had nothing to with it to feel guilty about it.Oh yes, they do.  It’s a larger group to tax and guilt trip to fund their big govt agenda.

e.g. I’m perfectly Ok with the government funding religious schools directly (as many main-stream Christian do) but that doesn’t mean I’m for the U.S been turned into a theocracy.

I agree with the liberals that believe a great injustice was committed by our government Only the Southern Democrats, not the whole govt.for hundreds of years and up to the very recent past, but I disagree in the way we should go about fixing it.  I think we should go about it by making a great 0-12 quality education available to every poor American as they way of doing that. This is just another version of class favoritism, which is essentially unAmerican.though I feel that would require getting rid of teacher Union, and going the way of having students choose their school and not having the school choose them, but student choose their school. ...but to make sure every choice available is a quality choice.

..ran out time, wont proof read. Ciao!


"Give the lefties a pile of money, and they’ll spend it buying votes.” - Rush Limbaugh on the “bailout”.

robert108 on October 27, 2006 at 12:50 pm
Avatar for aNONOMISLY

I wrote:

rob, my point is that some extremist in both side take stuff to an extreme.“

rob:

Everybody does it” isn’t a substantive argument, unfortunately; you are really just trying to demonize Christians here, which compounds the damage

It’s not an “evebody does it.” Its a claim that extremist on both sides aren’t representative of the main-stream.

The guy here doesn’t represent you’re typical liberal any more than Warren Jeff and his Fundamentalist Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints represent your main-stream Christian. It’s no attack on Christianity neither. ..its a mension of an extremist group, which I’ve been illustraing doesn’t represent main-stream Christianity. Just as extremist “social justice” people don’t represent main-stream Liberalism.

aNONOMISLY on October 27, 2006 at 01:05 pm

aNON: Let me ‘splain it to you: Pointing out a similar crime done by some other group doesn’t excuse the original crime.  All you are doing is distracting from the toxic leftie “social justice” teachings that this man and those women used to justify their actions; it was the children who suffered.  The adults made their choices, based on their beliefs and values.  Nothing you can say about so-called “Christian extremists” changes that fact.  You’re just thread-jacking here.


"Give the lefties a pile of money, and they’ll spend it buying votes.” - Rush Limbaugh on the “bailout”.

robert108 on October 27, 2006 at 01:23 pm
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once again, “the left” is not to be attributed this action by this extremist, just as the Mormons and main-stream Chistianity is not to be attributed the actions of religious extremist in the mold of Warren Jeff.

aNONOMISLY on October 27, 2006 at 01:34 pm

aNON: Quite the contrary; his actions were a logical consequence of his beliefs combined with his apparent lack of ability to think clearly.  He was vulnerable to the propaganda to which he was subjected, and acted accordingly, as did the women.  The children were the real victims here.  BTW, I met a lot of his type of person during the Sixties, including a group in Detroit known as the White Panthers, headed by an extremist named John Sinclair.  They never went as far as this guy did, but the thinking was there.  Your attempt to rope Christians into this tragedy is beneath contempt.
If you feel strongly about Christian groups, why not post your own comment on the reader blogs?  This one is on another subject.  The leftie “social justice” ideology, as I have pointed out before, is guilty for other harmful activities, as well, although not as directly horrible as this particular incident.  As I have said many times now, it is a worst-case scenario.  Get it?


"Give the lefties a pile of money, and they’ll spend it buying votes.” - Rush Limbaugh on the “bailout”.

robert108 on October 27, 2006 at 01:49 pm
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aNON: Quite the contrary; his actions were a logical consequence of his beliefs combined with his apparent lack of ability to think clearly.  He was vulnerable to the propaganda to which he was subjected, and acted accordingly, as did the women.  The children were the real victims here.  BTW, I met a lot of his type of person during the Sixties, including a group in Detroit known as the White Panthers, headed by an extremist named John Sinclair.  They never went as far as this guy did, but the thinking was there.  Your attempt to rope Christians into this tragedy is beneath contempt.
If you feel strongly about Christian groups, why not post your own comment on the reader blogs?  This one is on another subject.  The leftie “social justice” ideology, as I have pointed out before, is guilty for other harmful activities, as well, although not as directly horrible as this particular incident.  As I have said many times now, it is a worst-case scenario.  Get it?

Just as the kids are are inculcated by the fundamentalist I mentioned to believe the only way to heaven is to obey whatever is asked of them, even if it’s force marriege with a stranger three times their age. ..demented people aren’t secluded to one ideology. ..what the reason Warren Jeff teaches to his follower? ..the logical/fundamentalist conclusion is what they do. ..that they are more true to the Founder of the and its Mormon religion and fundamental tradition? ..what Waren Jeff does is really one of the worst case scenerio of taking religion to an extreme that may seem logical to its followers.

aNONOMISLY on October 27, 2006 at 02:13 pm
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rob, its and extremist view of what “social justice” aught to be.

much as having no taxes is an extremist view of what “cutting taxes” should be, lol.

aNONOMISLY on October 27, 2006 at 02:19 pm

aNON: Your continuing attempts to insert your own agenda into this comment thread are not only wrong, but unethical.  Your personal religion stuff is irrelevant to this thread.  Please post your own stuff on the reader blogs, and let us all take our shots at you.  This is just a matter of manners.  If you want to post a piece on your favorite topic, please do so.  Otherwise, you are just distracting from this thread.  It’s known as threadjacking.
One wrong doesn’t excuse another, nor does it justify the toxic leftie concept of “social justice”, if that was the point you are attempting to make.


"Give the lefties a pile of money, and they’ll spend it buying votes.” - Rush Limbaugh on the “bailout”.

robert108 on October 27, 2006 at