Say Anything Blog

Sparkie,

You mentioned Whistler and Bat One and Chief RZ and Rob and you linked my article about the kids being taken from the polygamists, but you didn’t even mention me.

I can’t tell you how disappointed I am that you didn’t call me out by name in this post.

I’m hurt.

Now, when you get out of detention this afternoon you should write “I will not leave out Pilgrim when insulting my betters” one hundred times.

Bad boy.

Election ‘08 - We Are So Screwed

I should note that I have never once defended the polygamists.  I stated that implicitly in the post you linked, Sparkie.  I do, however, have a problem with Sheriff’s Departments owning tanks.

That’s an issue that’s mutually exclusive from the polygamist issue.

If you’re going to whine about liars, you should at least try to be honest in your whining.

Also, Hamas was hardly elected by the democratic process.  Democracy requires more than the existence of a ballot box.  It requires the freedom to speak, the freedom to express, the freedom to assemble, the freedom to petition and the freedom to vote as you wish without fear of reprisal.

If you think those things exist among the Palestinians right now you’re out of your gourd.

When the people fear their government, there is tyranny; when the government fears the people, there is liberty.

-- Thomas Jefferson

Rob’s recently listened-to songs:

Rob
I don’t think a John Deere 6 wheeler with some sheet metal on the side of it qualifies as a tank.

Democracy requires more than the existence of a ballot box.  It requires the freedom to speak, the freedom to express, the freedom to assemble, the freedom to petition and the freedom to vote as you wish without fear of reprisal.

Tell it to Bush and Condi who forced that election on Palestine prematurely.

I don’t think a John Deere 6 wheeler with some sheet metal on the side of it qualifies as a tank.

It was a fully-armored track vehicle filled with cops (soldiers?) sporting machine guns.

You just can’t be honest, can you?

Tell it to Bush and Condi who forced that election on Palestine prematurely.

So Hamas’ oppression of the Palestinian people is all Bush’s fault.

Gotcha.

When the people fear their government, there is tyranny; when the government fears the people, there is liberty.

-- Thomas Jefferson

Rob’s recently listened-to songs:

Wow, talk about paranoiac delusions! And I thought boob and sanni had it bad.

Una Salus Victus Nullam Sperare Salutem

rob
after they won the election, hamas had to put down a rebellion instigated by fatah using arms provided by Bush, Condi, Jordan, and others, with the cooperation of egypt and israel (who wanted to make sure they were all small arms) AFTER THE US CONGRESS HAD EXPLICITLY VOTED AGAINST SUCH ACTIONS. what’s more, we urged them to act now, despite being outmanned and needing more time. we assured gaza would be taken by hamas with out stupidity. If you are referring to that particular bit of scrapping when you say this:

So Hamas’ oppression of the Palestinian people is all Bush’s fault.

then you are wrong. it was merely an elected government putting down a terrorist rebellion. did hamas run on a platform that is different than the result? your characterization of democracy above is wrong.

if people vote, by majority, to live under islamic law, that is democracy. especially in the ME. get used to it.

lastly, do i love hamas? hell no. misogynist assholes who believe in the most kookie shit going. at the same time, i don’t like it when people in positions where they can lie to and manipulate the american public choose to do so. again, let me requote something i quoted earlier today, that perhaps rob missed:

Abu Dan, 28, is a member of Hamas, the Iranian-backed Islamist organization that has been designated a terrorist group by the United States, but I have a good reason for taking him at his word: I’ve seen the video.

It shows abu Dan kneeling, his hands bound behind his back, and screaming as his captors pummel him with a black iron rod…

...“They took us to a house in north Gaza,” abu Dan says. “They covered our eyes and took us to a room on the sixth floor.”

The video reveals a bare room with white walls and a black-and-white tiled floor, where abu Dan’s father is forced to sit and listen to his son’s shrieks of pain. Afterward, abu Dan says, he and two of the others were driven to a market square. “They told us they were going to kill us. They made us sit on the ground.” He rolls up the legs of his trousers to display the circular scars that are evidence of what happened next: “They shot our knees and feet—five bullets each. I spent four months in a wheelchair.”…

A clue comes toward the end of the video, which was found in a Fatah security building by Hamas fighters last June. Still bound and blindfolded, the prisoners are made to echo a rhythmic chant yelled by one of their captors: “By blood, by soul, we sacrifice ourselves for Muhammad Dahlan! Long live Muhammad Dahlan!”…

Bush has met Dahlan on at least three occasions. After talks at the White House in July 2003, Bush publicly praised Dahlan as “a good, solid leader.” In private, say multiple Israeli and American officials, the U.S. president described him as “our guy.”

read the article i linked. its six pages, but its worth it. so, now we have bush meeting with terrorists. I WONDER IF THEY HUGGED?

A fuzz?

Does anyone even say that anymore?

Actually I prefer “Pig” or “Five-O” or “The Man” or “PO-lice” or “Jack Booted Nazi Heathen Door Kicking Rights Supressing Thug”.

But...fuzz?

Okay, Sparkie, change my first comment. Get your crayon and write “I will not say fuzz” one hundred times. Then off to bed, young man. You’ve got a long day ahead of you with all those irrational thoughts to work through and those temper tantrums to throw.

Nitey nite, sweety.

Election ‘08 - We Are So Screwed

Pil, this just gets funnier and funnier!

Una Salus Victus Nullam Sperare Salutem

Look, spark. You can continue with this delusion that there is no objective reality until hell freezes over. All you will be left with is frozen hell and an objective reality kicking you in the balls. There you go.

Una Salus Victus Nullam Sperare Salutem

Hotel wins the best line of the night:

Look, spark. You can continue with this delusion that there is no objective reality until hell freezes over. All you will be left with is frozen hell and an objective reality kicking you in the balls. There you go.

Heh.

Election ‘08 - We Are So Screwed

Hey, I do what I can with the limited resources I has.

Una Salus Victus Nullam Sperare Salutem

Pilgrim,

I too am greatly disappointed that sparkless couldn’t bother to lie about me in his post.

Out Here
Rodney G. Graves

Ceterum censeo Parthia esse delendam
Latin: “Furthermore, Parthia (Persia aka modern day Iran) should be destroyed.”

Rodney,

Ha!  Eat your heart out!

“Poverty of goods is easily cured; poverty of the mind is irreparable.”

That the Palestinians chose Hamas in their election only goes to show that the people themselves are the enemy. The election, as flawed as it was, cleared up a lot of things for the world. No longer do the Palestinians have the excuse of an unelected leader speaking in their names. We know where the people stand now - with terrorists whose number one stated enemy is killing the Jews.

Don’t know where you got the idea that expressing contempt at Hamas equals disdain for the democratic process. You really have to stretch to make that connection.

Exit question: what the hell is in the water in Philly?

Sparkie:

2) Pedophile apologists - Well well. Recent events involving more religious fanatics who get their rocks of by marrying and raping girls who are well neigh the legal age to consent… have led Rob to come to their defense. Now we are hearing cries of ’return these children to their families‘.

She was a 16 year old girl, so it would be pedestry apologists… if the claim is even true.  Love how a puffed-up ass crack like yourself thinks you can tell just from watching TV whether a crime had even been committed.  Just marvelous.  Our constitution at work.

But they didn’t just arrest the person supposedly responsible for the alleged crime, they basically attacked the entire religious commune, taking into custody children who obviously didn’t meet the description of the abused girl or any similar supposedly abused women.

Nor interestingly has the girl in question been identified.  Funny if it turns out to be a crank call… They still got what was coming, eh Sparkie?

Anyway, I’m not sure why you are dismayed about fascists coming into power in Italy, since you are so obviously applauding fascist tactics within our own country.

carrick. i seem to have struck a nerve!

Love how a puffed-up ass crack like yourself thinks you can tell just from watching TV

i dont watch teevee

what the hell is in the water in Philly?

i dont know. maybe i should double brita it?

No longer do the Palestinians have the excuse of an unelected leader speaking in their names. We know where the people stand now

then we should recognize them as a state and proceed accordingly. anyone with half a brain knows that the things rob has called ‘democracy’ are more than democracy. nonetheless, they are key to a stable state. we cannot expect fledgling democracies to understand that. we must respect their decisions. the small arms shipments to fatah that Bush and Condi have organized are undemocratic. ie. they did so without the approval of our elected congress. an act in the name of our country that is not an act of our country is inherently undemocratic. especially when it is aimed at unseating a group that was elected in an election we forced on these people. if we have a problem with the state of palestine, as lik intimes we should, then perhaps we can get our own population, or conversely, china or russia to vote to do something about it. oh, wait. europe probably won’t even support it. you rally for democracy in the ME, reap what you sow.
if Bush understood democracy, he would understand that a 50/50 country does not provide anyone with a mandate. same goes for the dems. if he understood democracy, he wouldn’t fracture his attempts to make it happen in palestine when his preferred results didn’t obtain. democracy is what people choose, not what foreigners wish them to choose. if you don’t understand that, i don’t know what to say.

an objective reality kicking you in the balls

carrick
if you think that in my desire to prevent children well neigh the age of consent from being raped i am endorsing fascism, carry on. i have no problem with police. rob seems to forget that we have judges in this country when he rails against the police. if you broke the law, that sucks. if the police broke it, that sucks for them. you can’t be anti-abortion, citing the rights of the fetus, and then sit around stomping your foot about how pederasty is just fine. you guys are kooks.

Pedophile apologists - Well well. Recent events involving more religious fanatics who get their rocks of by marrying and raping girls who are well neigh the legal age to consent…

She was 16.  That is hardly pedophilia.

Let me put into context--I am a married man of just over 30.  I am driving last Saturday through my home town to see my grandmother and the high school track team was doing a bikini car wash.

Spark, if presented with the opportunity to participate in a “spiritual union” with said young track star, of course with the blessing of my current wife (meaning bitch don’t take half my shit), of even better, if my wife asks that I enter into “spiritual unions” with some of her friends too, would I be a pedophile to allow her to practice her pole vaulting?

Sparkie, I appeal to your good judgment to find adjectives to describe me and my interaction.  You show a complete lack of respect towards me to not even mention our lasting legacy of “Chimpy McHitlerburton”.  I thought at very least, we shared a passing interest in women like Hillary Duff, the Olson Twins, Jamie Lynn Spears, and the like.  How can you leave me on the island and call me a pedophile?  Remind me to not send you a postcard when I find an adoring group of 16 year olds that are looking for a father figure in their lives.  I figured you wanted an invite and I could call you to be a leader in our new “church”.

Wow, spark. You need to lay off the pipe, or double the dosage.

Una Salus Victus Nullam Sperare Salutem

By the way, you live in Philly. Are you busy kicking in the doors of all those people impregnating under age girls and defrauding the welfare system?

Una Salus Victus Nullam Sperare Salutem

Sparkie: This cult and their compound did not just spring up overnight. They’ve been there a while. It seems to me that the authorities could have used their resources (other than the APC) to make a case about the alleged child abuse, obtained statements identifying the perpetrators, got a warrant and gone in and served arrest and search warrants and removed the offenders. But no! They go in like gangbusters and remove 416 children from their parents. Some politician decides to make a statement and is willing to infringe on these peoples’ rights to do it. Sounds un-American to me!

This cult and their compound did not just spring up overnight.

If we can smear them by calling them a “cult”, that makes violating them and terrorizing them OK, then?

This crap is already starting to unravel:

http://sayanythingblog.com/readers/entry/false_abuse_claim_investigated_in_texas_polygamist_raid

Leftie political philosophy, from a DU commenter:

It doesn’t matter if it’s true or not. RUMOR IS TRUTH. The modern laws of media hype and political warfare have a useful tenet: Repeat ANYTHING or raise false concern over ANYTHING and it is likely to be planted in the conscious/subconscious of many voters.

I LOVE HOW, AFTER WHINING ABOUT HAMAS, NO ONE TOUCHED THE TOPIC AFTER MY LAST COMMENT! EVEN KITTY! what kitty, objective reality didn’t provide you with some more ad hominem bullshit?

about these putative child rapists. one, we have laws in this country. if you don’t break them, then the judge will let you go. if you do break them, then he won’t. some police are hasty and silly. we all know that. nonetheless, they have one of the hardest jobs in this country. while it may be unreasonable that a cop, say, points a gun at you and makes you keep your hands on the wheel… that’s only because you know you don’t have a gun on you or that you aren’t about to pull it on the cop. the cop doesn’t know that. as i said above, if the law has been broken, the judge will sort it out. if you guys can’t wrap your mind around that, then too bad. its easier, nowadays, to get a dog removed for abuse than it is to get kids removed for abuse. just because someone isn’t old enough to consent for themself doesn’t mean that they can be abused and/or raped by those who are old enough. hitting your kids when they misbehave is totally different that this, so i would just like to pre-empt those comparasons.

justin b.
i apologize, but perhaps the nuance of your post has escaped me. if 16 is legal, so be it. 16, then, is the legal age of consent. one can rape their wife, mind you. whether or not the women on this ‘ranch’ are 12 or 40, the presence of force, coercion, and the lot is important. if they are underage, that adds to it. again, the judge is good at keeping track of the law, the details, and so forth. that’s my position.

whatsamatteryou-istawa:
so what if the ranch didn’t spring up over night! i’m not saying we should quash all efforts at ranching. your description of what the police could have done is silly. what, they are going to walk onto the ranch and start interviewing women? i doubt it.

“would you like to point the finger at someone who we may or may not be able to bring in, in front of them, considering they control your life, livelihood, and so on and will probably beat the shit out of you tonight if say a damn thing?”

“no? okay, well have a nice day.”

Still waiting for you to tell us how child molesting welfare cheats you have gotten off the streets of your city.

Una Salus Victus Nullam Sperare Salutem

I LOVE HOW, AFTER WHINING ABOUT HAMAS, NO ONE TOUCHED THE TOPIC AFTER MY LAST COMMENT!

What do you want to hear? That Palestine is a f***ed up mess and that some of our actions have exacerbated the problem? I agree. Was there something specific you wanted to be addressed?

His point is that terrorists forcing people to participate in rigged elections is his idea of “democracy” in action.

Una Salus Victus Nullam Sperare Salutem

Sparkless,

A broken analog clock gets it right twice a day, and even a blind squirrel finds the occasional nut.  By my reckoning this is the first time you’ve been within spitting distance of reality in weeks if not months.

You’ve got a long way to go before you cease being a reasonably reliable contra indicator, let alone the converse.

Out Here
Rodney G. Graves

Ceterum censeo Parthia esse delendam
Latin: “Furthermore, Parthia (Persia aka modern day Iran) should be destroyed.”

if 16 is legal, so be it. 16, then, is the legal age of consent. one can rape their wife, mind you. whether or not the women on this ‘ranch’ are 12 or 40, the presence of force, coercion, and the lot is important. if they are underage, that adds to it. again, the judge is good at keeping track of the law, the details, and so forth.

This is not about child rape.  This is not about pedophilia.  The law in Utah states that the age of consent is 16, unless the person engaging in sexual relations is already married, then it is 18.  You understand that the law was carefully crafted to single out one particular group of people, plain and simple.  What we recognize is that the laws of every state differ.  So the mere presence of a child to a woman under 18 does not therefore indicate a crime. 

The burden of proof is that any one individual engaged in sexual relations specifically with another individual who was younger than the age of consent in the state where the relations happened.  So you have to prove age of the victim, time that it occurred, and the location.  We recognize that without those factors, one cannot possibly prove a crime occurred.

What we have going on is guilt simply by association.  Let’s assume that one particular family consists of a man and a wife, plus several spirit wives.  Again, there is no crime of polygamy unless these wives are all LEGALLY MARRIED to the husband.  Otherwise, they are simply cohabitants that engage in sexual relations with the man… think of a man that has an affair with his nanny.  That happens all the time, think Jude Law.  Not illegal.  Then let’s assume that all of the wives were over the age of consent.  Explain what crime they committed.  Take that one step further, assume that no domestic abuse or spousal abuse is occurring in their home. 

What you have advocated is removing their children at gunpoint simply because they belong to a religious group in which some of the member of the group MAY HAVE committed a crime.  The actions in Texas leave ALL OF THE PARENTS unable to present evidence on their OWN BEHALF because they are not treated as individual families.  Every single family there is grouped together and guilty by association with little or no legal recourse to get their children back.

When they start prosecuting people for crimes and start showing some evidence other than a 33 year old in Colorado claiming to be a 16 year old abuse victim, then get back to me.  We afford legal rights to all citizens.  I am not defending polygamy and am certainly not defending the taking of underage brides.  But I am defending the rights of all individuals to not have their children taken at gunpoint by police in APCs when there is nothing more than an allegation by an individual that was clearly lying.

The end justifies the means though.  That is what you are saying.  Lie, cheat or steal to go after criminals.  Deny them their rights.  Who needs fair trials. 

For someone that claims to be a Libertarian, you certainly do not hold consistent.

What if they weren’t forced?  What about the women who weren’t forced?  How many do you think are forced?

If one woman is forced, does that mean the family that lives down the street is somehow guilty because they live in the same town?

I expect the “I’m just playing devil’s advocate” line of crap momentarily.

Una Salus Victus Nullam Sperare Salutem

justin b.

What you have advocated is removing their children at gunpoint simply because they belong to a religious group in which some of the member of the group MAY HAVE committed a crime.

that is clearly what I am advocating. in a qualified manner. are you telling me that we should give up the apprehension of murder suspects on the logic that they only MAY HAVE committed a crime? bullshit. again i would stress the role of the courts and the ‘innocent until proven guilty’ meme. if the girl hasn’t been molested, raped, or abused then there will be no grounds to (continue to) remove her from the family (unless they make her live in a closet full of dogshit or some other analogue yet-to-be-discovered).

kitty
if that’s all you expected, you need to use your imagination.

andrew

What do you want to hear? That Palestine is a f***ed up mess and that some of our actions have exacerbated the problem? I agree. Was there something specific you wanted to be addressed?

The resistance up til now has been in a heroic, patriotic if you will, effort by the various cohorts to remedy batone’s awkward untruths and hypocrisies.
also andrew,
thanks for the ‘***’. polite.