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Tuesday, April 03, 2007

Naturalistic Theism: Cosmological Proofs III

So far the cosmological proofs advanced are:

1.  What was first must have always been.

2.  What has always been was not of another.

3.  What is not of another is independent and all else dependent.

...Whence also it is plainly consequent, Fourthly, that such a Being [what was first, not of another, and independent of all] is necessary, or doth necessarily exist:  that is, that it is of such a nature as that it could not or cannot but be.  For what is in being, neither by it’s own choice, nor any others, is necessarily.  But what was not made by itself, (which hath been shown to be impossible), nor by any other, (as it hath been proved something was not), it is manifest, it neither depended on its choice, nor any other’s that it is.


(What couldn’t make itself, nor was made by any other, its being depended not on its choice, nor on any thing dependent of it, hence, that it exists is necessary.)

And therefore, its existence is not owing to choice at all, but to the necessity of its own nature.  Wherefore it is alway by a simple, absolute, natural necessity; being of a nature to which it is altogether repugnant and impossible ever not to have been, or ever to cease from being.  And now having gone thus far, and being assured, that hitherto we feel the ground firm under us; that is having gained full certainty, that there is an eternal, uncaused, independent, necessary Being, and therefore actually and everlastingly existing; we may advance one step further.

And with equal assurance add, Fifthly, that this eternal, independent, uncaused, necessary Being, is self active; that is (which is at present meant), not such as acts upon itself, but that which hath the power of acting upon other things, in and of itself, without deriving it from any other.  Or at least that there is such a Being as is eternal, uncaused, &c, having the power of action in and of itself.  For either such a Being as hath been already evinced is of itself active or unactive, or hath the power of action of itself or not.  If we will say the latter, let it be considered what we say, and to what purpose we say it… --John Howe (1630-1705).

Comments

John writes well, but I think he misses something.

Did the first being come before or after the atoms, the mass, or the matter that is in the universe?  Was he/she/it here before energy, before time, before motion?  Was this thing responsible for the creation of all of this, or part of that creation?  Could it have been destroyed as part of that creation?

Seth Yantiss on April 4, 2007 at 09:54 am
Avatar for HG

Seth,

I wish John was around to answer your questions.

Being the first cause would mean some thing existed before all else.  This cause then would necessarily possess the power to act in such a way so that all else owes its being to the first cause.

The information presented clearly does not exhaust all the logic and reasons Naturalistic Theism offers.  Rather, this is designed to demonstrate that the existence of a first cause is a very reasonable and rational conclusion, and one deserving consideration equal to any other.

HG on April 4, 2007 at 01:37 pm

this is designed to demonstrate that the existence of a first cause is a very reasonable and rational conclusion, and one deserving consideration equal to any other.

Sure… It’s hard to argue against the notion that something came first, and that first thing didn’t rely on anything else for it’s creation nor it’s sustenance…

There had to be something first… but when?  Where?  How?

It sure would be cool to have an answer for that… eh?

I also agree with the statements that untill we can be everywhere at the same time, we cannot know if there is or is not a “God"… or without becoming “God” ourselves. 

It’s similar to quarks… we cannot know the direction and the location of a quark at the same time… we can know one, but not the other…

Seth Yantiss on April 4, 2007 at 01:46 pm
Avatar for HG

There had to be something first… but when?  Where?  How?

Reason appears to have limits which it cannot go beyond.  What we can take from reason is exactly what you state: “There had to be something first”.

It sure would be cool to have an answer for that… eh?

oh ya.

HG on April 4, 2007 at 01:54 pm
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