Say Anything Blog

Only liberals would characterize our efforts as failure in light of these accomplishments.  Only liberals would resent America for accomplishing them.

if you spend the kind of taxpayer money we are spending on iraq on any other semi-third world country, thousands of dollars in a few seconds, i bet their GDP will double too. too bad they aren’t making headway combating the oil theft and piracy ((/sarcasm)/sarcasm).
also, if we are getting figures about the state of the infrastructure now… and its state when we began this ‘project’, let’s keep in mind that we destroyed a significant amount of infrastructure during the ‘war’.
also, most countries where there are wars… aren’t generally called utopias. neither are power vaccuums sucking in terrorists. nice play on words though. the irony there is great. utopos = unattainable.
also, i hear there has been some rape/killings in iraq sice uday’s last uday.

Yun Chu said, “You must strictly not express in words what is very significant. Both dragon and snake are killed in one blow.”

Sparkie:

if you spend the kind of taxpayer money we are spending on iraq on any other semi-third world country, thousands of dollars in a few seconds, i bet their GDP will double too.

I know this is dangerous material for you liberals, but improvements in self governance probably had a lot more to do with it.  I have no doubt that much of that US government aid was misappropriated or just wasted, that’s the nature of such aid.  Centrally controlled governance doesn’t work, regardless of its degree of beneficence. 

too bad they aren’t making headway combating the oil theft and piracy

Good for you that there’s always something to piss and moan about, isn’t it?  Though I think you’ve got Somalia mixed up with Iraq, with respect to piracy.

also, if we are getting figures about the state of the infrastructure now… and its state when we began this ‘project’, let’s keep in mind that we destroyed a significant amount of infrastructure during the ‘war’.

most countries where there are wars… aren’t generally called utopias.

Iraq wasn’t in a war in 2002, it just was being run into the ground by a despotic, totalitarian ruler who was not only failing to make any substantial infrastructural improvements since he took power in 1979, but who was also actively diverting aid money into his personal collection of opulent palaces.

But that wouldn’t be a utopia either would it?  The word choice was a barb at certain liberals who still maintain (like Michael Moore) that life was nearly idyllic under Saddam, and that things have gotten much worse since we “unlawfully” deposed him from power.

neither are power vaccuums sucking in terrorists.

In this case, that is called a “death trap for terrorists”:  An unintended consequence of the bungled post-war occupation, nonetheless it has had positive consequences on the population of trained terrorists. 

also, i hear there has been some rape/killings in iraq sice uday’s last uday.

I’ve heard that too.  Better stay out of DC.

Nobody’s saying that life is perfect in Iraq, but I find it funny as hell what a bee in the bonnet it is for somebody to just point out the improvements in life for the citizens of Iraq since the fall of the former totalitarian regime.

It’s almost like you’re an apologist for absolute rule.

saddam was under embargo. it remains to be seen if he could have done better in an unmolested state. he was under embargo for human rights violations. something we are prepping to snub the UN on. a true, but invalid, premise? or so we now say.

furthermore, this is reconstruction time and we are spending money over there like there is no tomorrow. don’t point to the GDP and act like its something the iraqis have achieved. i paid for some of that. and i didn’t buy a damn thing. wealth redistribution rationalized by carrick and glossed to boot. screw you with the liberal epithets. look in the mirror, honey.

a “death trap for terrorists”

amazing you equate that with utopia. would you prefer to live in a “death trap for terrorists”? DO you think that is some sort of wonderful state of existence?

It’s almost like you’re an apologist for absolute rule.

i am not, i take it that’s why you wrote almost… at any rate, its better than being a slimy little flip flopping chameleon who wakes up to a new set of rationalizations every week… its about womens rights, WMDs, terrorism, oil, stability, the greater ME, al qaeda, democracy, and so on.
this week’s bandaid is so fashionable carrick. on authority of the brookings institute!
meanwhile, maliki is in iran, doing business. now who’s funding terror? you and me, by proxy. fuck that shit. our money and energy should be long out of there.

Yun Chu said, “You must strictly not express in words what is very significant. Both dragon and snake are killed in one blow.”

saddam was under embargo. it remains to be seen if he could have done better in an unmolested state.

Not for 25 years.  He attacked two of his neighbors and devastated his country economically.  And he was utterly misusing the oil-for-food moneys for his personal gain.

amazing you equate that with utopia

I see you’re still too dense to pick up the context of my comment. LOL.

furthermore, this is reconstruction time and we are spending money over there like there is no tomorrow.

many of the improvements are due to a freer market system.  If you want to talk about US improvements on infrastructure, you can, but sorry they mostly haven’t happened.  Iraq’s economy is surging because of its privatization and because of the influx of new oil revenue.

at any rate, its better than being a slimy little flip flopping chameleon who wakes up to a new set of rationalizations every week…

What an utterly incoherent argument.  Par course for you.  The rationale for the war hasn’t changed, but regardless, we aren’t discussing that here.

meanwhile, maliki is in iran, doing business. now who’s funding terror? you and me, by proxy. fuck that shit. our money and energy should be long out of there.

This is just juvenile bullshit.

Women’s access to arbitrary detention, torture and rape has gone done since the untimely death of Uday Hussein, so one must keep a balanced view of things here. (/sarcasm)

That is an outrageous lie.  Kidnappings, rape and selling women as sex slaves has gone UP.....UP.....that’s UP, Carrick, since our invasion.

Further, education has gone down for women and girls and illiteracy in skyrocketing for women.  I know this because I heard it on FOX News yesterday.  You know, that liberal cable network?

Pshaw.

it remains to be seen if he could have done better in an unmolested state.

Classic, give the murdering dictator who terrorized his own people; attacked his neighbors; pursued, posessed, and used WMD’s, maintained relations with terrorists and terrorist organizations, and rewared acts of terror, a little more time than the years afforded him under countless UN resolutions.  Yeah, in light of 9/11, that would be the wise thing to do.

/sarcasm

Kidnappings, rape and selling women as sex slaves has gone UP.....UP.....that’s UP, Carrick, since our invasion.

H,

I know you love to gloss over distinctions when they don’t fit your argument, but you ought to be honest enough to admit that the crime you mention is not at the hand of the government in an effort to terrorize Iraqis.

See the difference?

H,

You can apologize to Carrick now for calling him a liar.

Iraq wasn’t in a war in 2002, it just was being run into the ground by a despotic, totalitarian ruler

Let me add the this line of thought, Saddam’s anti-western terrorist associations, efforts and sponsorship as detailed in the IDA report.

HG,

I know you love to gloss over distinctions when they don’t fit your argument, but you ought to be honest enough to admit that the crime you mention is not at the hand of the government in an effort to terrorize Iraqis.

See the difference?

First, Carrick used the word “access”.  Women do have access to more rape and more kidnapping, more likelihood of getting abused if they don’t wear burkas, and less opportunity for education, ect. ect. 

Therefore, they do have more access to such negative things.  Carrick only makes a connection between access, not endorsement.

Second, why is he glossing over facts that doesn’t fit his argument?

Women’s access to arbitrary detention, torture and rape has gone done since the untimely death of Uday Hussein

H, your at it again.  This clearly implies such atrocities by Saddam.

Second, why is he glossing over facts that doesn’t fit his argument?

That would be you projecting again.  Notice your second post ignores the implication I posted. 

H, if you want to earn any credibility and have anyone respond to you other to express derision, you’ve got to start being honest.

Still waiting for that apology to Carrick.

H,

It is one thing to say that criminal rape is higher than criminal rape when Saddam was in power.  But it is another thing to say that criminal rape, including the rape condoned by Saddam’s government is less than the current rate of criminal rape in Iraq today.  Since you didn’t provide a link to the information you boast, we are left to guess.  Therefore Carrick glossed over nothing given he didn’t know it prior to writing this post.

HG

H, your at it again.  This clearly implies such atrocities by Saddam.

I think you are high.  That comment merely marks a point in time, it does not signify endorsement by either Saddam or his government.  It is touching on Udays death and the timing of it.

He may have tried to make that point, but he missed the mark.

That would be you projecting again.  Notice your second post ignores the implication I posted.

If you and he are going to IGNORE the REALITY and FACTS that women are in worse shape since the war and are suffering more, since the war, then I think there is nothing you could say to me that could possibly be an insult to my honestly.  For it is clearly the both of you that has the issue with honesty.

H, if you want to earn any credibility and have anyone respond to you other to express derision, you’ve got to start being honest.

I will tell you what.  If you admit that women are worse off since our invasion, and that, sadly, they were better off under Saddam I will admit that it is possible Carrick might have meant something else, and in that case his point is only slightly meaningless.  Deal?

Still waiting for that apology to Carrick

Not going to happen.  He either deliberately ignored the true horror Iraqi women are suffering under today or he doesn’t care for the sake of making a cheap political point for his messiah.

He owes us an apology.

I think you are high.

More projecting?  Look H, the mention of detention and Saddam in the same sentence as rape and torture bespeak the hired rapists Saddam employed and therefore the terror Iraqi women faced from their own government.  Don’t be such a fool.

If you and he are going to IGNORE the REALITY and FACTS that women are in worse shape since the war and are suffering more, since the war,

If you admit that women are worse off since our invasion, and that, sadly, they were better off under Saddam

Could you please provide evidence of your claim?  After all, it is you that is making it, and your not known for honesty.

He either deliberately ignored the true horror Iraqi women are suffering under today or he doesn’t care for the sake of making a cheap political point for his messiah.

How so if you just learned of it yesterday on Fox News?

He owes us an apology.

You’d have to first prove he knew what you just learned yesterday, and that he diliberately ignored it before you could demand such an apology.

HG,

It’s all here in several links that I have included along with cut and pasted text.

http://sayanythingblog.com/entry/the_barbarity_of_the_treatment_of_women_under_islam_is_ignored_by_well_almo/#comments

When I said I saw it yesterday, I meant I saw it as recently as yesterday, as I was debating this point (on SAB) BEFORE I saw it on FoxNews yesterday.

H:

He either deliberately ignored the true horror Iraqi women are suffering under today

You’re entirely full of shit.

C,

Are you saying you didn’t know or that you didn’t ignore it?  What is your point?

Your motives are suspect, not mine.

What I am saying is “go fuck off”.

Iraqi Women the Worse for War

By Kasia Anderson, Truthdig. Posted May 28, 2007.

Women face uphill struggle for rights in Iraq - “Women have suffered significant setbacks since 2003”

Women in Iraq struggle for freedom
Source:

Women of the new Iraq (2005)

None of these are current and none say that cases of criminal rape currently surpass both criminal and state rape cases prior to our invasion. 

Your sources are not exactly unbiased.

H. 

I gave you your chance to do the honsest and honorable thing.  You are neither.  I’m with Carrick.  Get lost.

HG, I can’t really address how well things are going for women overall, though there is reason to be optimistic that things have dramatically improved for them compared to early 2007.  What I will say is that war is often the hardest on the defenseless, especially wars like this one in which one side (the terrorists) routinely practices acts of barbarity against the weak.

It is hard to really compare pre-war Iraq to the current one in this respect, because totalitarian countries often take an almost anarchist character, where rule by force takes precedence over rule of law.  And again, it is the women who suffer the most.  Take for example this paragraph:

Women are often raped in order to blackmail their relatives. Men who leave Iraq and join Iraqi opposition groups regularly receive videotapes showing the rape of a female relative. These tapes are intended to discourage Iraqi nationals abroad from engaging in opposition activities. Some authorities carry personnel cards identifying their official “activity” as the “violation of women’s honor.”

But the facts remain that the violence against women post the defeat of Saddam were for the most part being carried out by the same brutal people who were perpetrating such acts under Saddam.  And the only reason there has been a tapering off of these incidents is because these brutal thugs have been killed or imprisoned.

I gave you your chance to do the honsest and honorable thing.  You are neither.  I’m with Carrick.  Get lost.

FOX News reported the same thing yesterday you twits.

That comment merely marks a point in time, it does not signify endorsement by either Saddam or his government.  It is touching on Udays death and the timing of it.

But I understand not all measures are positive.  Women’s access to arbitrary detention, torture and rape has gone done since the untimely death of Uday Hussein, so one must keep a balanced view of things here. (/sarcasm) I mean we did need to discuss the positively utopian state of women’s rights under Saddam, right?

What a fricken jerk H is.

Sparkless, insanity and other lefties -Waaaaahhh!  We don’t want things to be better in Iraq!!  You make them worse or we’ll pout..

You don’t have to be a moron to be a liberal Democrat but it sure helps.

It is hard to really compare pre-war Iraq to the current one in this respect, because totalitarian countries often take an almost anarchist character, where rule by force takes precedence over rule of law.  And again, it is the women who suffer the most.

Exactly Carrick.  How many rapes Saddam or his terrorist thugs ordered and committed is not likely to be well documented given the nature of Saddam’s government.  But we know from the experience of Iraqis, their tesitmonies and their fear of Saddam that it was significant.  Only an idiot would claim Iraq today is worse than under Saddam.

Carrick,

Possibly the one undeniable reality is that post-Saddam the Iraqi’s see something as possible they never could have had under Saddam— a future and a much brighter one at that.

But the facts remain that the violence against women post the defeat of Saddam were for the most part being carried out by the same brutal people who were perpetrating such acts under Saddam.  And the only reason there has been a tapering off of these incidents is because these brutal thugs have been killed or imprisoned.

That is another lie.  There is no tapering of women being brutalized in Iraq, it is increasing. 

Where in the hell do you guys get your lies from, besides your own minds?

There is no tapering of women being brutalized in Iraq, it is increasing.

Prove it.  Show us a graph current to 2008 , or STFU.

Words of wise from HG:

Only an idiot would claim Iraq today is worse than under Saddam.

I think he means you, H.

Radical claims require dramatic proof.  You mostly just have the rattle of your mouth, and no current data, and mostly just years-old anecdotal evidence posted third hand from communist rags.

Kasia Anderson: Can you tell us in your own words about your work [with the Organization of Women’s Freedom in Iraq], how you started and what issues are most important to your cause right now?

Yanar Mohammed: After this war started on Iraq I immediately decided to go back to set up an organization and to be the voice for free women there, and since the beginning, in my organization, we decided to do demonstrations, to do campaigns, to make petitions, and to see whatever is needed.  And it started with speaking out against the human trafficking of women, and we were the first to demonstrate.  It was a few months after the [March 2003] beginning of the war—in August 2003—we started that.  But later on, our work was mainly on sheltering women from honor killings, and also on seeking out the reports of women’s trafficking, and later on in the last two years we found out—especially after the breakout of the scandal at the Abu Ghraib prison, we found out that it is very important to have a presence in all the women’s prisons and see what’s happening there.  So, we managed to become regular visitors to the central prison—it’s called Khadamiyah, a women’s prison, and we interviewed all the women in there, and we found out terrible things happening before they reached the prison.  Six of them, actually, spoke out about being assaulted, about being raped, some of them serially raped by the staff of the police station before they reached the prison.  So, we decided:  This is a program that we will have to pursue immediately.  And the surprise here is that most of this work we do with very minimal funding—mostly depending on volunteer work.

Anderson: How did the onset of the Iraq war change things for Iraqi women, specifically?  I would imagine that there would be an increase in particular forms of oppression and violence once things became more volatile and uncertain. ...

Mohammed: Well, although people on this part of the world think that Iraqi women are liberated, actually, we have lost all of the achievements or all the status that we used to have. It is no longer safe to leave your house and get groceries.  We’re not speaking here about a young woman trying to reach the university, because that is beginning to get too difficult.  We’re not speaking here about women who are trying to go back and forth to work and even those of my friends who do that already because they have to—many of the police at work are being killed for sectarian reasons.  So, you have to witness all sorts of atrocities just going back and forth to work, and if there is this new [policy] of Sunni and Shiite, checking all the IDs of people, you leave the house and you do not guarantee that you come back safe.

Radical claims require dramatic proof.

Note how Hannitized conveniently left out any link. *Sigh* Han-job is ignorance and incompetence wedded in one meconium drenched package!

Barack Obama: All hat and no cattle since 1997!

Proof,

Well said.  I wish I could be there to see the look on his face when he finds out what meconium is.

Out Here
Rodney G. Graves

Ceterum censeo Parthia esse delendam
Latin: “Furthermore, Parthia (Persia aka modern day Iran) should be destroyed.”

H also left out anything objective. What he has is year-old opinion based on anecdote.

H also left out anything objective. What he has is year-old opinion based on anecdote.

Give me a break....im working here.  I don’t have time to chase down “graphs” that meet your whiney little approval list.

Dig around Fox News, they reported the same thing yesterday.

I will do more work after i get home tonight.

I don’t have time to chase down “graphs”

Nor would you be able to.  For reasons I explained above, it’s not like you’re going to be able to find much objective information.

Also,, what’s this sudden fixation with Fox News?  I’ve never considered them a reliable source of information (nor CNN nor MSBNC etc), and I’m pretty surprised you would.

Anyway, I suspect the story you saw was about Kurdistan Iraq, which never was affected by the invasion to start with (essentially it was a US protectorate since the Clinton days).... good luck explaining how those two are correlated.

More…

Iraqi women were long the most liberated in the Middle East. Occupation has confined them to their homes. A typical Iraqi woman’s day begins with the struggle to get the basics: electricity, petrol or a cylinder of gas, fresh water, food and medication. It ends with a sigh of relief for surviving death threats and violent attacks. For a majority of Iraqi women, simply venturing into the streets harbours the possibility of attack or kidnapping for profit or revenge. Young girls are sold to neighbouring countries for prostitution.

http://www.globalresearch.ca/index.php?context=va&aid=836

What were you saying about access Carrick?

BAGHDAD — Even as Iraq moves towards democracy, rights and personal liberties have become demonstrably less accessible to a large portion of the population.

Women have suffered significant setbacks since 2003, said State Minister of Woman’s Affairs Azhar Al-Shakly. In recent years, she said, women have lost access to medical and educational services, workplace rights and fair hiring practices, and much of their former status in Iraqi society.

Abuse of women going up, punishment for men abusing them going down.

And here is the link I forgot the first time..

http://www.stripes.com/article.asp?section=104&article=32967&archive=true

She said she sees numerous examples of women’s diminishing status in Iraqi society, such as rules forcing women in government jobs and at universities to wear head coverings, decreased educational opportunities for girls, ministries’ unwillingness to hire women over men and — perhaps most worryingly — no legal protection against abuse of women.

“I wanted a paragraph in the constitution that was against all harm to women,” she said. “I worked on getting this law in this constitution, but couldn’t. Before, if a man used to beat his wife, he would be punished for at least six months.”

Now, women who are abused by their husbands, “in general, don’t really go to the police station,” she said. “First of all, the husband might take revenge, and secondly, because of what the police might think.”

Just say “WHEN” Carrick!!

BAGHDAD, 13 April (IRIN) - According to the findings of a recent survey by local rights NGOs, women were treated better during the Saddam Hussein era - and their rights were more respected - than they are now.

http://www.health-now.org/site/article.php?articleId=591&menuId

The survey also highlighted the increase in unemployment levels among Iraqi women since 2003. “Female unemployment is now twice as high as that for males, while female poverty has also increased,” said Iman. “In addition, the number of widows - already high as a result of the Iran-Iraq war [in the 1980s] - has increased since the US invasion, making the situation worse.”

Sparkie.  I will try and engage you in an honest discourse.  On just one of your assertions--that the US bankrolled the local economy and therefore that is why their economy grew.  I bought a TV, satellite and remote to receive 8 satellites, installed for about $150 in Mosul, Iraq.  It was from a local ‘haji’ shop.  I will post a picture if you question me to prove it.  All the material was from other countries, including iraq.  The man refused a $10 tip.  They have integrity even in the unsettled area of Mosul where al-qaeda thugs were operating; torturing locals with century’s old methods such as putting people’s heads in vices and killing their children in front of the neighborhood. 
Ask a question, cite references or stop guessing.

Communism is evil

Barbaric ‘honour killings’ become the weapon to subjugate women in Iraq

Murder of a girl who became infatuated with a British soldier highlights a disturbing new trend

By Terri Judd
Monday, 28 April 2008

In Basra alone, police acknowledge that 15 women a month are murdered for breaching Islamic dress codes. Campaigners insist it is a conservative figure.

Violence against women is rampant, rising every day with the power of the militias. Beheadings, rapes, beatings, suicides through self-immolation, genital mutilation, trafficking and child abuse masquerading as marriage of girls as young as nine are all on the increase.

Du’a Khalil Aswad, 17, from Nineveh, was executed by stoning in front of mob of 2,000 men for falling in love with a boy outside her Yazidi tribe. Mobile phone images of her broken body transmitted on the internet led to sectarian violence, international outrage and calls for reform. Her father, Khalil Aswad, speaking one year after her death in April last year, has revealed that none of those responsible had been prosecuted and his family remained “outcasts” in their own tribe.

“My daughter did nothing wrong,” he said. “She fell in love with a Muslim and there is nothing wrong with that. I couldn’t protect her because I got threats from my brother, the whole tribe. They insisted they were gong to kill us all, not only Du’a, if she was not killed. She was mutilated, her body dumped like rubbish.

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/middle-east/barbaric-honour-killings-become-the-weapon-to-subjugate-women-in-iraq-816649.html

Hey Carrick,

Fuck you too!

At first glance Shawbo Ali Rauf appears to be slumbering on the grass, her pale brown curls framing her face, her summer skirt spread about her. But the awkward position of her limbs and the splattered blood reveal the true horror of the scene.

The 19-year-old Iraqi was, according to her father, murdered by her own in-laws, who took her to a picnic area in Dokan and shot her seven times. Her crime was to have an unknown number on her mobile phone. Her “honour killing” is just one in a grotesque series emerging from Iraq, where activists speak of a “genocide” against women in the name of religion.

"Women Are Being Beheaded for Taking Their Veil Off”: Honor Killings On Rise in Iraq
By Terri Judd, Independent UK. Posted April 30, 2008.

The stoning death of Ms. Aswad led to the establishment of an Internal Ministry unit in Kurdistan to combat violence against women. It reported that last year in Sulaymaniyah, a city of 1 million people, there were 407 reported offences, beheadings, beatings, deaths through “family problems”, and threats of honor killings. Rape is not included as most women are too fearful to report it for fear of retribution. Nevertheless, police in Karbala recently revealed 25 reports of rape.

The new Iraqi constitution, according to Mrs. Mahmoud, is a mass of confusing contradictions. While it states that men and women are equal under law it also decrees that sharia law—which considers one male witness worth two females—must be observed. The days when women could hold down key jobs or enjoy any freedom of movement are long gone. The fundamentalists have sent out too many chilling messages. In Mosul two years ago, eight women were beheaded in a terror campaign.

“It was really, really horrifying,” said Mrs. Mahmoud. “Honor killings and murder are widespread. Thousands [of people] … have become victims of murder, violence and rape—all backed by laws, tribal customs and religious rules. We urge the international community, the government to condemn this barbaric practice, and help the women of Iraq.”

http://www.alternet.org/waroniraq/83710/

C,

Where are your posts that things are getting better for women in Iraq since Saddam was removed from power?  A cursory Google search turned up NOTHING.

Where is YOUR graph?

There, I have done my work, im out........smooches!

H, you still have no objective data comparing pre-war Saddam-era Iraq to current Iraq showing whether or not acts of violence against women has gone up, stayed the same or dropped.  All you have are anecdotes that lack any context, and therefore are completely pointless to relate, and least with respect to the question that was asked.

As for as my graphs—well, you’re the one making accusations.  The proof is the responsibility of the accuser, not the accused.

And you’ve utterly failed to prove anything, other than you can’t put your hand on any data to back up your accusations.  I guess that makes you an asshole.

I see some examples based on the theological issues surrounding Allah, the Quran, the Sunna and Shirah laws. This will continue in the Muslim world and could spread to the USA if the CAIR people have their way.  We need to call their hand on this type of murder just like the murders of millions of babies in the USA every year.  This type of local law is on the decrease.  Turkey became a rational country sometime in the 1920s.

I just received a mailing showing the Al-Qaeda torture manual including pictures, but I will not post any of them here.  I do not engage in gratuitous and childish discourse.

Anyone who can not fathom the vast contrast in Iraq from Sadam’s “utopia"/ Stalin’s ‘utopia’ and the constitutional government Iraq has now is incapable of rational debate or engages in what some call close comparisons and generalizations--propaganda that advertisers use to sell products people really do not want nor need.

Communism is evil

Carrick: I don’t that any reasonable person would even think that Saddam kept any such statistics, in any case, so it’s unlikely that they exist.  This is just more anti-American propaganda from a usual source for that kind of crap.

Save America; boycott the MSM.

Robert108, of course that is completely correct.  Beyond that, there was not a free press in Saddam’s days of course, so the expectation would be that such incidents were underreported at that time.  The statistics we can point to is the number of totalitarian leaders in Iraq is now at 0%, the number of subordinate thugs near 0%, the number of Afghan-trained terrorists nearly 0%, the number of uncontrolled militia in Iraq near 0%.  And the number of free press out there reporting repugnant practices like honor killing up infinity %.

Chief RZ:

Anyone who can not fathom the vast contrast in Iraq from Sadam’s “utopia"/ Stalin’s ‘utopia’ and the constitutional government Iraq has now is incapable of rational debate or engages in what some call close comparisons and generalizations--propaganda that advertisers use to sell products people really do not want nor need.

You have cut to the chase as usual.  Well said.

you still have no objective data comparing pre-war Saddam-era Iraq to current Iraq showing whether or not acts of violence against women has gone up, stayed the same or dropped

Did you even read the stories that I linked??  Don’t blame me for your laziness.

BAGHDAD, 13 April (IRIN) - According to the findings of a recent survey by local rights NGOs, women were treated better during the Saddam Hussein era - and their rights were more respected - than they are now.

and..

According to the survey, women’s basic rights under the Hussein regime were guaranteed in the constitution and - more importantly - respected, with women often occupying important government positions. Now, although their rights are still enshrined in the national constitution, activists complain that, in practice, they have lost almost all of their rights.

Objectivity:

[This item comes to you via IRIN, a UN humanitarian news and information service, but may not necessarily reflect the views of the United Nations or its agencies. All IRIN material may be reposted or reprinted free-of-charge; refer to the copyright page (http://www.irinnews.org/copyright ) for conditions of use. IRIN is a project of the UN Office for the Coordination of Humanitarian Affairs.]

Who is IRIN?

IRIN’s principal role is to provide news and analysis about sub-Saharan Africa, the Middle East and parts of Asia for the humanitarian community.

The networks target decision-makers in relief agencies, host and donor governments, human-rights organisations, humanitarian advocacy groups, academic institutions and the media. At the same time, IRIN strives to ensure that affected communities can also access reliable information, so they can take informed decisions about their future.

IRIN (Integrated Regional Information Networks) is part of the UN Office for the Coordination of Humanitarian Affairs, but its services are editorially independent. Its reports do not necessarily reflect the views of the United Nations and its agencies, not its member states.

Now, you say that violence and rape for women has gone down.  Where is your evidence and graph that shows that?  You can’t even back that up with anecdotal information!!!

In contrast, what you are asking from me is data that can not be provided by the Iraqi government (see below).  What you are hiding behind excuses and your false stories.

Im bored with you’re lying ass.

“What stands out about that allegation is the fact that those accused rapists have been trained and armed and funded by the United States,” Susskind said. “Most people in the U.S. would be horrified if they actually understood that the U.S. has been propping up forces in Iraq that have been committing these gross violations of human rights.”

Statistics about the prevalence of violence against women is difficult to come by because the Iraqi government has not aggregated casualty data by gender, Susskind said.

But, she says, “across-the-board” anecdotal evidence proves what is widely accepted by international human rights organizations to be true: that violence against women has risen ever since the United States invaded Iraq in 2003.

A former journalist and human rights activist in the Middle East, Susskind, now communications director at Madre, has written extensively on women’s human rights and U.S. foreign policy. She is the sole author of the report, which grew out investigations into Iraqi women’s rights since 2003.

Other data; Have a field day.

http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2008/01/080113083338.htm

Did you even read the stories that I linked??

The operative word here is “stories”.  You have no data, only stories.

Save America; boycott the MSM.

Yep, H can’t tell the difference between narrative and fact.

Im (sic) bored with you’re (sic) lying ass.

Barack Obama: All hat and no cattle since 1997!

This isn’t about misspelling, this is about grammatical errors.

It would follow that somebody who has trouble with basic grammar also has trouble with logical thinking in general.  Those two are highly correlated.

My final word on this H is you keep making accusations that you now admit you can’t back up.  The onus for proof is on the accuser, not the accused.

This continued pattern makes you a flaming asshole, a deceitful shit, and as well, generally, just too plain stupid to bother with.

It would follow that somebody who has trouble with basic grammar also has trouble with logical thinking in general.  Those two are highly correlated.

There wasn’t any grammatical errors.  It was a simple misspelling. Your feeble attempts to reach for distractions from your pathetic lies is ridiculous.

My final word on this H is you keep making accusations that you now admit you can’t back up.  The onus for proof is on the accuser, not the accused.

I don’t give crap about your final lie.  Anyone who has read this knows that virtually every human rights organization has accepted the conclusions that have risen from the studies that have been done and the anecdotal evidence that is overwhelming.

On the other hand, you have offered nothing.  Nothing.  I repeat....N O T H I N G, to support your phony conclusion and what is becoming increasing more clear as a lie. 

It’s one thing to be hopeful.  It’s an entirely another thing to be so petty and childish as to ignore all the facts around you and to hide behind fourth rate lawyer arguments.

This continued pattern makes you a flaming asshole, a deceitful shit, and as well, generally, just too plain stupid to bother with.

Oh jesus christ you are a moron!

There wasn’t (sic) any grammatical errors.

"Weren’t" -verb/subject agreement.

Han-job: You are a one man walking* mistake machine. But, very, VERY consistent! Heh.

*(I assume you can walk!)

Oh jesus christ you are a moron!

And yet again, projection takes over! Heh.

Barack Obama: All hat and no cattle since 1997!

Really, though! Best laugh I’ve had all night is the moron making a grammatical error in a sentence claiming he didn’t make any grammatical errors!
Too funny!

Barack Obama: All hat and no cattle since 1997!

I should have read further!

Your feeble attempts to reach for distractions from your pathetic lies is (sic) ridiculous

Verb/subject agreement isn’t really your long suit, is it Hannie?

Barack Obama: All hat and no cattle since 1997!

Phoof,

First, clearly your obsession with spelling and grammar is nothing more than a distraction from the lost argument your crew has suffered.

Second, your wasted effort to make a connection between grammar and intelligence falls short with your own defense of Bush.  Unless you are going to state that Bush is an idiot because he doesn’t speak as eloquently as Obama, you really don’t have an argument against me.

It’s a tired and feeble attempt at saving your ass and it just ain’t workin.

“Free societies are hopeful societies. And free societies will be allies against these hateful few who have no conscience, who kill at the whim of a hat.”

George W. Bush
Sept. 17, 2004

Excuse me, you were saying?

First, clearly your obsession with spelling and grammar is nothing

What obsession? A third grader could correct your grammar!

And you discount it, because you are too ignorant to change! Pity! Every time you set your one hand to typing, you demonstrate just how ignorant you are.
I’m not obsessed. You are just as dumb as a box of rocks! Get over it! Heh.

Barack Obama: All hat and no cattle since 1997!

First, clearly your obsession with spelling and grammar is nothing more than a distraction from the lost argument your crew has suffered.

I don’t see that Proof has lost any argument at all… nor is his insistence on linguistic precision the least bit distracting.

“Poverty of goods is easily cured; poverty of the mind is irreparable.”

What obsession?

Oh Spelling Bea...just admit it

I began blogging in earnest over at “Say Anything”. Some of the, shall we say charitably, dumbest statements being made there were terribly misspelled, with atrocious grammar. I took it upon myself to try to correct their thinking, spelling and grammar and adopted the Nom de Cyber: “Proofreader Emeritus”. Along the way, I shortened it to “Proof”.

Excuse me, you were saying?

H, you admit you have no data, just stories.  Yet you insist that you know <I>factually<i> how things are.

That just makes you stupid.  The fact you don’t grok grammar is just confirming evidence.  Spelling isn’t linked to intelligence, but grammar is.

And yes I do have evidence to support my original contention, which is the rape rooms where women were being detailed, tortured and raped to prevent their relatives from working against the Iraqi government have disappeared.

You have no data, you’ve offered no explanation for why you would expect things to be worse, nothing just your usual blast of moronity.

And yes you got your ass kicked.  Because you made accusations that you failed to prove.

Everybody noticed it but apparently you.  And I have a theory about that too:  It’s because you’re just that stupid.

What’s wrong RBB?  You find speaking & writing in your native tongue intimidating too?

H, you admit you have no data, just stories.  Yet you insist that you know <I>factually<i> how things are.

Did you mean “you admit that you have no data”? 

Look, I offered plenty of facts and data to support my statements.  You simply complained that it provides no context or objectivity.

I did my job, you will ignore anything I offer, no matter what it is.  Face it Carrick, your a partisan hack that has as much honesty and integrity as a sidewalk salesman.

The fact that you ignored the data I offered, the surveys, the long list of examples and reports go in one ear and out the other with you.

And yes I do have evidence to support my original contention, which is the rape rooms where women were being detailed, tortured and raped to prevent their relatives from working against the Iraqi government have disappeared.

First, you didn’t say “disappeared”, you said “gone “done"”.  And I assume you meant gone “down”, but who knows for sure?

Rape, torture and general abuse are clearly still happening and sometimes the allegations are against police.

You have no data, you’ve offered no explanation for why you would expect things to be worse, nothing just your usual blast of moronity.

Wrong, TONS...of data!!  What sort of explanation are you looking for, you idiot?  Did you even read the articles?  The articles discuss WHY, just click on the link, you moron.

And yes you got your ass kicked.  Because you made accusations that you failed to prove.

That is utter bullshit.  The articles go on, and on, and on and on.  I can only lead a horse to water dipshit.

Look, I offered plenty of facts and data to support my statements. You simply complained that it provides no context or objectivity.

Wrong.  Anecdotes and stories aren’t either “facts” or “data” until after they are vetted and cross-examined.  You provide no proof that has been done with the stories you claim to have been told.

Save America; boycott the MSM.

I did my job, you will ignore anything I offer, no matter what it is.  Face it Carrick, your a partisan hack that has as much honesty and integrity as a sidewalk salesman.

The fact that you ignored the data I offered, the surveys, the long list of examples and reports go in one ear and out the other with you.

Did someone say something?

Out Here
Rodney G. Graves

Ceterum censeo Parthia esse delendam
Latin: “Furthermore, Parthia (Persia aka modern day Iran) should be destroyed.”

your (sic) a partisan hack that has as much honesty and integrity as a sidewalk salesman.

Projection. P -r -o -j -e -c -t -i -o -n !
(Except that I would not insult sidewalk salesmen by comparing them to you!)

Barack Obama: All hat and no cattle since 1997!

The fact that you ignored the data I offered, the surveys, the long list of examples and reports go in one ear and out the other with you.

You never provided any data, just stories, dofus.

Even your vaunted survey contained no objective data: It was a description of the results of a survey, without any accompanying information about the extent of the survey, who was interviewed, when they were interviewed, etc.

So, H, you have nothing except wet-dream stories for anti-war, America-hating, liberals. 

Have a nice day.