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Wednesday, March 12, 2008

Is Consensual Adult Incest Okay?

German High Court Takes a Look at Incest

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Must consensual sex between close relatives be punished? Germany’s highest court is about to rule whether incest will continue to result in a jail term. It is referring to the case of a brother and sister who have already had four children together.

Since Susan became pregnant with Patrick’s child and their relationship became known to the authorities, they have been prosecuted repeatedly. Their case touches an age-old taboo, it’s exotic and tragic at the same time. “Coitus between relatives” is illegal in German law and punishable with a fine or a jail sentence.

Patrick S. has served a jail sentence of more than two years because of his love for his sister, and he may have to go back to jail for at least another year, unless Germany’s Federal Constitutional Court rules in his favor. The verdict is expected soon.

The key issue is whether the protection of a powerful moral taboo is sufficient justification for punishment. And whether there are reasons beyond that taboo for locking someone up, for depriving children of their father, a woman of her partner.

First, should it be against the law to protect any subsequent children? Many say no, the risk is not that high; but this couple had four children: Two with severe mental problems, given over to Foster Care. One child had a severe heart problem corrected with surgery, although it could have just as easily resulted in death. The last child, thus far is considered normal. Quite frankly, to me that certainly provides strong evidence that procreation places their children at risk and poses an avoidable finacial burden on society.

Once, we open the door to approving incestuous marriages and sexual relationships, where is the justification for prohibiting other incestuous relationships; let us say, a normal male of a retarded female relative, based on the consensual nature of that relationship.

To me the worst implication is that the state once again is lowering the bar of what society considers appropriate moral standards-behavior, with the next step even easier and so on, until we can justify man-boy sexual relationships and/or marriages.

http://www.spiegel.de/international/germany/0,1518,540831,00.html

Comments

Is Consensual Adult Incest Okay?

No.


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Anna on March 12, 2008 at 04:45 pm

Anna: You have to stop this excessive verbiage in your replies! Cut it back some, get to the point!  grin


No matter the age or state of health, for a military man it is always glorious to tilt at windmills, rescue a fair Dulcinea and be a gallant knight in armor in a glorious cause.

Neiman on March 12, 2008 at 04:49 pm

LOL, Actually… I was reading the article, but I was having a difficult time.
Normally, I can disassociate my personally feelings from something while reading but… THIS IS JUST WRONG! It’s down right sick.
I was expecting perhaps 2nd cousins or the likes of that, but… ooooh no, this is brother and sister!!!!!.
Not to mention only 1 out of 4 children turning out normal? What more proof do they need?
Obviously, something is seriously wrong with these people.


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Anna on March 12, 2008 at 05:05 pm
Avatar for Fred

Consenting adults with legal competency should be able to marry/have sex/etc.  The state has no business outlawing it.  This includes gay people, and people related yet even by blood.  Danger is with blood relations, the chance of birth defects goes way up.  But so true is it when people live next to toxic waste dumps, but the gov’t allows that, right?

Fred on March 12, 2008 at 05:48 pm
Avatar for Hans

"Ewwww gross!” is neither a logical nor rational argument.

The only problem I have with these two is that they had children together.  Had they refrained from breeding then there would be nothing to complain about.  The fact that they’re siblings makes the whole issue disturbing and disgusting, but those are not moral issues. 

What two adults do in private that affects no one else, is beyond the scope of legitimate government regulation.  When people are punished for what they do in private that affects no one else, it is nothing more than the tyranny of the majority.  The fact that most people find their choice abhorrent is not legitimate cause to deny them the right to make that choice.  Unless someone’s rights are being violated, the public (and the state by extension) has no business interfering in private matters.

Hans on March 12, 2008 at 10:11 pm

I would venture to guess that there have been studies of nature showing that closely-related mammals have a natural incest aversion when they are closely related.  The natural function to this built-in aversion would be to prevent in-breeding which gives rise to birth defects.

The function of any government is to promote the common defense and welfare.  Normally, marriage is something for religion, but government condones and regulates marriage because, first and foremost, the salutary effect of marriage between a man and a woman is that it ensures procreation and the continued existence of the country.

The second salutary effect of marriage is that citizens that are products of a family unit are more stable, wealthier, more likely to be productive and less likely to become social burdens in the form of demanding welfare payments and getting involved in criminality.

One of the side effects on experiment of the Great Society and War on Poverty, creating a social safety net, was to encourage illegitimacy, and it has been these single-parent families that disproportionately gave rise to multiple generations on welfare and criminality.

We have experimented with welfare and it has never lived up to the public socialist promises, but has given rise to a permanent underclass of voters who will always vote for those who will continue to push to take taxes from the working to give to the non-working.

I am certain those who are very familiar with the Bible can point to the chapter and verse which deem those too-closely related by blood from ‘knowing’ one another.

I would venture to guess that on a religious basis, incest is wrong.

Biologically, and therefore legally, it makes good sense for the State to not condone incestuous marriage.

Lastly, the laws in any given society should be a reflection of social morays.  If enough people deem a given practice to be wrong they elect lawmakers to outlaw or otherwise regulate that practice.

Thus, if enough people think ewwww!  yuck! about any given practice, it is their right to vote for representatives to outlaw that behavior. That is the function of lawmaking in a Constitutional Republic.

Then again, there’s something to be said for common sense—after all—who wants to be a mutherf*cker?


...for great justice

Move_Zig on March 12, 2008 at 11:23 pm
Avatar for todd

Quite frankly, to me that certainly provides strong evidence that procreation places their children at risk and poses an avoidable finacial burden on society.

Smoking poses an avoidable risk to society. Let’s ban that too. Long Live the Nanny State!
todd on March 13, 2008 at 03:48 pm
Avatar for personalopinion

I do not necessarily condone incest, but I think that what’s done with two consenting adults is their business and not the business of the government.

I don’t care if they’re brother and sister, or cousins… love is love… and I’m sorry, as much as you try, you can’t outlaw love.

If the two parties have openly, in sound mind, and of legal age, chosen to have sex or do whatever… who are we to tell them they are wrong? Bash me all you want.

People will love who they love, even if it is an immediate family member or someone of the same gender.

The government needs to step out of people’s personal lives and just let them live. If they’re not harming anyone I don’t care what they’re doing.

personalopinion on March 19, 2008 at 11:08 pm
Avatar for Andrew

If they’re not harming anyone I don’t care what they’re doing.

What if they have children? Wouldn’t causing their offspring serious deformities and defects constitute as harming someone?

Andrew on March 19, 2008 at 11:45 pm

Is Consensual Adult Incest Okay?

Only as long as no retarded kids are produced.

likwidshoe on March 20, 2008 at 01:11 am
Avatar for MammerJammer

you can’t outlaw love

Between little boys and fat, sweat, 54-year old men?

Between men and cows?

Between fathers and daughters?

Between ladies and mules or German Sherpards?

There’s good love and depravity.

Just because it works for you doesn’t make it right.

Sicko

MammerJammer on March 20, 2008 at 01:42 am
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