Say Anything Blog

How Much Worse Is Canadian Healthcare Than American Healthcare?

Well, let’s look at it this way.  When Canadians want immediate treatment for their ailments, where do they come?

America.

When the world’s rich, famous and powerful need serious medical attention where do they go?

America.

You can try and slice and dice this all you want, Mike, but the simple truth is that the Canadian
health care system causes service shortages and inadequate care.

This study is rather misleading.  I mean, yeah, Canadian doctors may be just as good or better at, say, knee surgeries when compared to American doctors.  But the key is...how long does it take a Canadian to get to their doctor as compared to an American?

When the people fear their government, there is tyranny; when the government fears the people, there is liberty.

-- Thomas Jefferson

Rob’s recently listened-to songs:

When Canadians want immediate treatment for their ailments, where do they come?

I’ve never been to America for medical treatment and I’m still alive. I don’t claim perfection for our healthcare system but it’s certainly better than you credit. I think that your problem is, philosophy aside of course, that you insist on extrapolating from the extreme examples and painting the entire system as dysfunctional. I’m sorry but it’s just not as bad as you claim.

"There are different kinds of truths for different kinds of people. There are truths appropriate for children; truths that are appropriate for students; truths that are appropriate for educated adults; and truths that are appropriate for highly educated adults, and the notion that there should be one set of truths available to everyone is a modern democratic fallacy. It doesn’t work.”

Irving Kristol

Mt grandma died in Canada after a week in intensive care up there - not related to the care… she was ready to go at that point. It cost $1k/day. That’s cheap. Canadian hospitals ain’t too bad. As far as specialists and shit goes… the US pretty much has a monopoly on that. Good ones from other countries move here.

I do hear a lot of lies and distortions from people like Rush on the quality of Canadian health care.

Yun Chu said, “You must strictly not express in words what is very significant. Both dragon and snake are killed in one blow.”

the world’s rich, famous and powerful need serious medical attention where do they go?

Readers of SA are none of the above.

They will not see those practitioners.

I’ve never been to America for medical treatment and I’m still alive.

I think that your problem is, philosophy aside of course, that you insist on extrapolating from the extreme examples and painting the entire system as dysfunctional.

MikeA:

The kind of lowest common denominator assessment in your first statement, however flippantly offered, seems to me to be the flip side of exactly the extrapolating you decry in the 2nd.

The problem is in trying to find a balance point between the caliber of health care we demand and price we are willing to pay for that health care.  Those insisting on some sort of nationalization of the health care system in this country are attempting to impose their own “lowest common denominator” balance point on the rest of us.  Those of us inclined toward traditional American self-reliance have good reason to be resentful of their efforts.

Considering the financial situation of both Social Security and Medi-Care, their approach doesn’t seem to have much of a record of success.

“Poverty of goods is easily cured; poverty of the mind is irreparable.”

My mother told me that Aunt Tee said; IF you don’t have someone with you in the hospital? They will kill you! ... It is always good to have an advocate in your corner.

Those of us inclined toward traditional American self-reliance have good reason to be resentful of their efforts.

I think that’s a perfectly reasonable position...it’s not one that I share of course but at least your preference for the American model is based on something defensible. As for the lowest common denominator, I’m nothing if not pragmatic when it comes to issues such as healthcare...if I or my family didn’t receive adequate care then I’d favour a system that delivers the goods. Fortunately the system has delivered the goods as it has for most Canadians which is the main reason why the majority supports medicare...it works. Sure aspects need fixing but what massive enterprise, whether private or public, can boast that it doesn’t need retooling in some area?

I can respect the ideological opposition to state run healthcare but I could match horror stories all day if I wanted to...it just seems silly to do so.

"There are different kinds of truths for different kinds of people. There are truths appropriate for children; truths that are appropriate for students; truths that are appropriate for educated adults; and truths that are appropriate for highly educated adults, and the notion that there should be one set of truths available to everyone is a modern democratic fallacy. It doesn’t work.”

Irving Kristol

I could match horror stories all day if I wanted to

I doubt it.

I’ll bet both America and Canada have their equal share of cruddy doctors.  The difference is that Americans don’t have waiting lines for health care.  Or not excessive ones, anyway.

And we don’t pay near as much in taxes.

When the people fear their government, there is tyranny; when the government fears the people, there is liberty.

-- Thomas Jefferson

Rob’s recently listened-to songs:

It is always good to have an advocate in your corner.

ZZ,

Its also a good idea for that “advocate” to have a signed Living Will or DNR in their pocket or briefcase… just to be sure.

“Poverty of goods is easily cured; poverty of the mind is irreparable.”

MikeA,

Since you are still inclined toward a pragmatic, if not altogether reasonable liberalism, and an honest discussion of issues, I recommend (again) Donny Baseball’s March 30th post entitled Have We Got A Deal for You!, found here.

There are some very practical reasons for opposing a mandated, nationalized health care system, including the exorbitant cost of limiting my choices.

“Poverty of goods is easily cured; poverty of the mind is irreparable.”

Bat One...sounds like NY has a bad program. The Canadian system is facing serious issues but I still prefer it because most people, including myself and my family, can get reasonable service at a reasonable price. Unlike most Canadians, I am open to the idea of allowing those who wish to pay for better or faster service to do so...what I advocate is a minimum standard of care available to everyone. I expect that’s the direction we will take eventually.

"There are different kinds of truths for different kinds of people. There are truths appropriate for children; truths that are appropriate for students; truths that are appropriate for educated adults; and truths that are appropriate for highly educated adults, and the notion that there should be one set of truths available to everyone is a modern democratic fallacy. It doesn’t work.”

Irving Kristol

Bat One...I used to believe that a Living Will was important until the Teri Schiavo fiasco.

ZZ,

You’re right.  There seems to be no end to the mischief and sorrow caused by the Schiavo case.

“Poverty of goods is easily cured; poverty of the mind is irreparable.”

Before the Teri Schiavo execution. I believed Judges were suppose to uphold the law and NOT Make laws…

ZZ,

And I thought executions were only to be carried out against those found guilty of heinous crimes.  Silly us!

“Poverty of goods is easily cured; poverty of the mind is irreparable.”

Silly! BUT that is what it was. No other definition for it.

It’s worth noting that this is a meta-analysis, not a study per se.  No new data were taken for it.  Hence, we instantly have a problem of double bias--that of the original researchers, and that of the meta-analyzers.

Another problem with this work is that there is a heavy bias towards big cities in the analysis--and it’s no secret that LBJ’s “War on the Poor” worsened outcomes through the American version of medical (and other) socialism.  Canada really doesn’t have enough minorities to have similar inner cities to those that LBJ decimated, so it’s a bit of a stretch to compare the two.  Put differently, exactly how does a comparison of Medicaid with another socialized medicine program prove anything about free markets?

Finally, this work does admit the big objection of those who oppose socialized healthcare; Canadians wait longer and have higher inpatient mortality for various serious procedures.