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Thursday, February 21, 2008

How Bad is The National Debt, Really?

by Charlie Martin


I’ve heard a lot of people quoting numbers like “the national debt is nearly $200,000 per person.” If you look on Google, for example, the first thing that comes up for ‘“national debt is” “per person”’ is this page, which gives a figure of $161,287. There are also comparisons of GDP against the deficit, GDP against the debt, and so on.

You know, I often find economics confusing and frustrating (why is it that Larry Kudlow and Paul Krugman can look at the same data and get nearly exactly contradictory interpretations?) but I can read a balance sheet and income statement, and this whole comparison struck me wrong. It would seem that national debt is a balance sheet figure while GDP is an income statement figure. I asked a well-known economist about this, and he agreed with me that national debt should be compared for this sort of purpose with national wealth, leading to a kind of national net worth. (He asked not to be quoted, no doubt because he was embarrassed for me at such a prominent economist being asked such simple question.) This gave me the right keyword, though, and a moment’s Googling led me to this chart…

[...]

… from Michael Mandel’s Economics Unbound blog. Suddenly things look a big different. Yes, we’ve got something like $162,000 in individual share of the national debt — but we’ve got something like $300,000 share of the national wealth. And it’s increasing; it was the highest in 2006 that it’s ever been. Notice some other things:

* this is in constant dollars; inflation isn’t an issue;

* this is total national wealth;€” it may be impacted to some extent by the housing decline, but (since housing is only a small part of the national wealth) not very much;

* this, from the discussions I’ve seen, probably doesn’t include asset values for things like un-recovered natural resources.

Now, this gets interesting. Put it into individual terms: for a family of four, this puts their share of the national wealth at around $1.2 million, and their share of the national debt at about $648 thousand; or, just to make the comparison more glaring, about $0.648 million.

Even potentially more interesting, look at where the inflection points happened: the national net worth started to decline as the recession start, in 2000, along with the .com bust. When does it start to go up again? At about the time the Bush tax cuts came into full effect (see here).

What else happened about that time? Why, the Iraq War, of course. So, somehow with all the expenses of the war and all, national net worth is increasing, and has been since the war started.

Remember this the next time someone tells you how the Iraq War is sapping our national wealth.


Nothing like the truth.

Comments

I feel my share of the debt, but where is my share of the wealth. 300,000 in the black...162,000 in the red? Why do we have any debt at all? Sounds like bullshit to me.


cool smile

Best Government $$$ Can Buy on February 21, 2008 at 06:59 pm

Why do we have any debt at all?

Take a basic econ class and a basic business class; then you’ll know that it takes money to make money, and our debt as a portion of our net worth is pretty good.

I feel my share of the debt…

How do you “feel” it?


"Give the lefties a pile of money, and they’ll spend it buying votes.” - Rush Limbaugh on the “bailout”.

robert108 on February 21, 2008 at 07:04 pm

Most people have almost no share of national wealth. the bottom 50% of the nation has very little wealth.
What they have is not liquid.

Interest on the National debt is constantly coming due.
$400 billion in interest payments this year.

WOOF on February 21, 2008 at 08:21 pm

Many people spend more than they earn regardless of income.  Many more manage to accumulate a respectable amount of wealth despite modest beginnings, education and incomes.


What’s going to happen to US industry when the global warming extremists like John McCain double the price of electricity?  I would think all these factories will close and set up in countries where they aren’t scared of technology.


The Whistler's signature
The Whistler on February 21, 2008 at 08:36 pm

Woof: You can’t have it both ways; the national debt is an aggregate, belonging to no individual, and so is the national wealth.  You lefties just don’t know economics.


"Give the lefties a pile of money, and they’ll spend it buying votes.” - Rush Limbaugh on the “bailout”.

robert108 on February 22, 2008 at 09:08 am

Debt is “owned” by all of us, so all of us pay.

Wealth is owned by few.

wealth is concentrated in the hands of a small number of families. The wealthiest 1 percent of families owns roughly 34.3% of the nation’s net worth, the top 10% of families owns over 71%, and the bottom 40% of the population owns way less than 1%.

WOOF on February 22, 2008 at 09:31 am

Woof: Again, you demonstrate your ignorance of economics.  Once again, the national debt is an aggregate figure, and the concept that we all “owe” the same amount is ridiculous; the way you “pay” it is in taxes, and those who make more pay more in taxes, so the debt is not equally distributed.  You’re also wrong on the wealth, but keep up that leftie jealousy of the achievers, it’s really helping you.  A large part of our national wealth is not personal wealth, but is in infrastructure that is “owned” by all of us.  Example: the streets and highways you use all the time to make money.  Get it?


"Give the lefties a pile of money, and they’ll spend it buying votes.” - Rush Limbaugh on the “bailout”.

robert108 on February 22, 2008 at 10:11 am

I’ll try to make it real simple for you: as a nation, our assets far outweigh our liabilities.


"Give the lefties a pile of money, and they’ll spend it buying votes.” - Rush Limbaugh on the “bailout”.

robert108 on February 22, 2008 at 10:12 am

Debt is “owned” by all of us, so all of us pay.

Most people have almost no share of national wealth.

Neither the nation’s debt, nor the nation’s wealth, are “owned” by us all.  If Exxon-Mobil went out of business tomorrow, the shareholders, the owners of the company, would not be directly liable for the company’s debt.  And when I die, Barack Obama and congressional Democrats not withstanding, the federal government is not going to demand payment from my estate on “my share” of the national debt.

The whole purpose of institutions, from the federal government right on down to a one-man “S” corporation, is to shield individuals from personal liability.

Similarly, “our nation’s wealth” isn’t owned by our nation, but by the individuals who’ve earned it.


“Poverty of goods is easily cured; poverty of the mind is irreparable.”

Bat One on February 22, 2008 at 10:13 am

The debt is backed by the gov’ts ability to tax, full faith and credit.

as a nation, our assets far outweigh our liabilities.

Shall we sell off Aspen ski homes the interstate highway system, airports, military equipment..
Wealth is not liquid. Infrastucture etc can help generate income but it does not pay down debt.
taxes do that.

WOOF on February 22, 2008 at 10:22 am

WOOF,

Poor Dear!  You seem to be having trouble distinguishing between a Balance Sheet and an Income Statement (P&L).  Need a refresher?


“Poverty of goods is easily cured; poverty of the mind is irreparable.”

Bat One on February 22, 2008 at 10:31 am

The debt is backed by the gov’ts ability to tax, full faith and credit.

Wrong.  The debt is what it costs to produce what we produce; it’s not static, despite what leftie propaganda tries to sell.  Our debt is very productive, because our economic system is very productive.  You just don’t get real economics.
Govt is a parasite on the productive sector.


"Give the lefties a pile of money, and they’ll spend it buying votes.” - Rush Limbaugh on the “bailout”.

robert108 on February 22, 2008 at 10:33 am

It is simple.
Debt is public, wealth is private .

You want to convert private wealth to the public, support the Estate tax.

Then we’ll be in the same ledger.

WOOF on February 22, 2008 at 10:35 am

Which of course limits the economy’s ability to actually pay off the debt.

Great idea there woof.


What’s going to happen to US industry when the global warming extremists like John McCain double the price of electricity?  I would think all these factories will close and set up in countries where they aren’t scared of technology.


The Whistler's signature
The Whistler on February 22, 2008 at 10:42 am

The debt is what it costs to produce what we produce

Produce what?

The debt is what we borrow.
Debt does not equal production.
It is a transfer of money.

WOOF on February 22, 2008 at 10:43 am

Produce what?

You’re kidding, right?  We are the most productive country in the world; we produce enough not only for our own use, but for a good part of the rest of the world.  Are you really that ignorant?


"Give the lefties a pile of money, and they’ll spend it buying votes.” - Rush Limbaugh on the “bailout”.

robert108 on February 22, 2008 at 10:52 am

Debt is public, wealth is private .

Wrong again, as has already been explained to you several times.  Now you’re just lying for propaganda purposes.  You don’t even know what the national debt is, do you?  Do you understand the concept of operating capital?


"Give the lefties a pile of money, and they’ll spend it buying votes.” - Rush Limbaugh on the “bailout”.

robert108 on February 22, 2008 at 10:55 am
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