Say Anything Blog

First thing to do is rid
baseball of switch hitters.

Have you researched your hate post? Turns out there have been some studies released in the past few years that imply you may be wrong. You also need to be prepared to explain why it is you feel that Socrates (who invented democracy), Plato, and Aristotle were all defects.

It may be argued—if first proven—that homosexuals are born that way, but it doesn’t follow that they therefore must act that way.

HG
You live in the US, where people can act however they want, to a degree. If I don’t like Rastafarians… its too damn bad. And my calls for them to ACT DIFFERENTLY would hopefully sound asinine, even to those who may share my opinions, because this is the US. Dreadlocks and homosexuality are green lighted.

Tolerating an unfortunate malady isn’t the same as “greenlighting” it.  Even though we don’t disapprove of many other such disabilities, we still strive to cure them or ameliorate them in some way.

Media uncovers more Palin stories in one weekend than Obama stories in two years. Still no bias detected

Obama: more experienced than Bristol Palin

This of course is the paradox of their propaganda:

On one hand they insist that homosexuality is determined in the womb, via genetic or hormonal factors.

On the other hand, there is not a single test that can determine whether an infant, toddler, teenager, or adult is biologically “gay”.

And of course they cannot allow such a test to ever be developed because accurate diagnosis is the first step to finding a cure!

So we all just get to take their word for it that sexual orientation is biologically determined and cannot change.  Proof—assuming they are even correct—simply will not be allowed.

[Feet make good soup!]

Marty: Here’s yet another paradox: After asserting that being gay is “mainstream”, they then assert that it isn’t any sort of choice; they are compelled by “nature” to be that way.  How can you be proud of something that is forced on you by nature, and isn’t even a positive choice?

Media uncovers more Palin stories in one weekend than Obama stories in two years. Still no bias detected

Obama: more experienced than Bristol Palin

Have you researched your hate post?

Sparkie,

You’ve taken my comments well beyond their intended context.  I’m simply pointing out the gaps in the arguments advanced for homosexuality and homosexual behavior.  You see Sparkie, it is said arguments that demand all homosexuals are born so, and that they must behave accordingly. Their is no “hate” tone present in my post whatsoever, nor do I suggest that people shouldn’t be free to act upon their legal homosexual preferences.

Why is it that (hetero/bi/A)sexuality should not be viewed as a birth defect?

If you are going to have sex, please have sex only with your own
shoes. 

In just 7 days I can make you a man

Hetero is the only sexuality which permits procreation.  That alone would make hetero no birth defect.

If homosexuality is determined to be a genetic predisposition, as liberals argue, can they then object when straight couples decide to arbitrarily abort fetuses that test positive, in favor of having babies who are straight?

After all, its only a fetus, right?

“Poverty of goods is easily cured; poverty of the mind is irreparable.”

Why is it that (hetero/bi/A)sexuality should not be viewed as a birth defect?

Not that I have anything against homosexuals, but given that the sexual process exists and is pleasurable for all parties involved is for the express purpose of procreation.

Now I’m not one who feels that sex should only be for procreation (my wife maybe feels differently), but it’s pretty clear that heterosexuality is pretty much the evolutionary intent of having sex organs in the first place.

When the people fear their government, there is tyranny; when the government fears the people, there is liberty.

-- Thomas Jefferson

Rob’s recently listened-to songs:

Homosexuality is a deviant behavior.  It is not genetic. Here are links to read about the few scientific research on the subject.  “Homosexuals” are merely a political group not much different than “feminists” and “african-americans.”

Communism is evil

a bill to prohibit abortions based on the sexual orientation of the unborn baby.

This bill would prevent abortions but would not prevent the parents from giving the baby up for adoption. Will this cause an over abundance of gay orphans?

Anna,

Did you intend to include a citation to that bill you mention?  I’m curious to see just whose bill this is, and who its co-sponsors might be.  I sense a huge attempt at ill-concealed hypocrisy here.

“Poverty of goods is easily cured; poverty of the mind is irreparable.”

Here is an interesting article about gay (or at least sexually ambiguous) animals.

Do not fear to be eccentric in opinion, for every opinion now accepted was once eccentric.

Chief,

From a strictly Christian perspective humanity suffers from deparvity and all are born sinners.  If it be concluded that individuals are born with certain sexual imperfections which lead to unnatural sexual tendencies, it could then be concluded they in some sense are born that way, but that doesn’t require they act upon it.  However, that said, the physical evidence is inconclusive. 

Consider this article from here:

Is Homosexuality Genetic? Ask the Ancient Greeks

by Dinesh D’Souza

A new poll shows that a majority of Americans believe that gays cannot change their sexual orientation. This can be read in more than one way. But perhaps the most obvious interpretation is that homosexuality is biological or innate, and therefore a certain percentage of people in every society are genetically programmed to be gay.

This view, I think, is simply wrong.

To figure this out we don’t have to dispute the controversial scientific studies, which are inconclusive. We simply have to look at a concrete historical example. Homosexuality was widespread in ancient Greece and Rome. The Greeks even had an educational philosophy based on pederasty. As K.J. Dover describes in his study of the subject, older men would take teenage boys as sex partners, and in return for sexual favors they would supposedly provide wisdom and knowledge. Interestingly one character in Plato’s Symposium protests this practice. He thinks it is unfavor to the older men!
If these practices are genetic, why aren’t homosexuality and pederasty prevalent in Greece and Rome today? Has the gene pool changed that much? These questions can be deepened by noting that for the ancients, there was no question of being either heterosexual or homosexual. The Greeks and Romans were both. In other words, Greek and Roman males typically were married and had families, yet these same married men also had sexual liaisons with younger boys.

I’m sure if someone in those days conducted a poll, the Greeks and Romans would confidently proclaim their sexual practices “natural.” If you told the ancient Athenians that other societies weren’t into pederasty like they were, chances are they would laugh and say that obviously pederasts in other cultures were concealing their true inclinations. With the same cultural myopia, we think that since there are homosexuals in our society, and since they clearly aren’t whimsically “choosing” to be homosexual, therefore homosexuality must be biological and innate. But this is a non-sequitur, and history suggests that it is not so.

Actually, Sparkie, Athenian democracy existed well before Socrates came on the scene, and one of its notable accomplishments was to kill Socrates.  Athenian democracy also (thus) served the Founding Fathers as an example of what NOT to do in founding a nation.  Hence, we are a republic, not a democracy.

Also, as Rob points out, the complete lack of desire to do that which leads to reproduction would be viewed, evolutionarily speaking, as a birth defect, and no amount of research can disprove that. 

Put differently, what we consider a birth defect depends not on what science learns, but rather what we value.  A society that values spending time on the beach is going to view being a blond as a birth defect.  A society that values its own perpetuation is going to view homosexuality as the same.

Sorry Bat, It was so long ago that I figured it was old news for most. I’ll go hunt it down.

Here is an interesting article about gay (or at least sexually ambiguous) animals.

MOFL,

Interesting if you ignore the intellectual and moral superiority which distinguishes humanity from the animals.  Using your logic, since animals don’t marry, neither should the homosexuals whose homosexuality is justified by the behavior of animals.

A Republican lawmaker in Maine has introduced a bill to prohibit abortions based on the sexual orientation of the unborn baby.

State Rep. Brian Duprey wants the Legislature to forbid a woman from ending a pregnancy because the fetus is homosexual.

He said the bill looks into the future in case scientists find what he described as a “homosexual gene.”
2/05

I mentioned it for debate purposes only and I am in no way trying to confirm the gene theory.

Anna,

Interesting.  I though abortion was the mother’s preference.  Wouldn’t this mean that to abort a child based on sexuality is discrimination?  How can one discriminate against a non-life? 

Personally, I would support this bill. Not on the basis of a “homosexual gene”, but because abortion is the taking of innocent life.

Man,

I wonder, do those “sexually ambiguous” animals make good house pets?  How about houseboys?

“Poverty of goods is easily cured; poverty of the mind is irreparable.”

HG: This does set up an interesting situation: 1. Abortion is a matter of choice for the woman and the woman only. 2. Homosexual babies cannot be aborted and thus abortion is no longer a choice for the woman, but for society. 3. If society can regulate abortions to prevent homosexuals from being aborted, doesn’t that establish abortion as being a matter of state regulation and doesn’t that completely destroy the choice argument? For instance, in Southern California blonde haired, bule eyed potential surfers could not be aborted, in Idaho no child can be aborted and etcetera.

If homosexuality is a matter of a genetic variation, how come in identical twins one can be heterosexual and the other homosexual?

Lastly, I completely agree with you on the Life issue!

No matter the age or state of health, for a military man it is always glorious to tilt at windmills, rescue a fair Dulcinea and be a gallant knight in armor in a glorious cause.

I will have to agree with you HG but at the same time it sure opens a flood gate of additional issues. Personally, If it were to be proven, I find it has limited usefulness for research and PREconception testing only.

Neiman,

Maybe the Republican who introduced the bill had other motives than to preserve homosexuality?

If homosexuality is a matter of a genetic variation, how come in identical twins one can be heterosexual and the other homosexual?

Because one chose to act on one’s genetically defective impulses while the other did not?

Persons are able to adapt their sexuality to circumstance.

Thomas A Edison said sex
is 99% Opportunity.
and 1% Inspiration

Holey Moley Bat One! 

How about houseboys?

Does this mean the end of Robin?

Thomas A Edison said sex is 99% Opportunity.
and 1% Inspiration

For any voter trying to choose between the two candidates for commander in chief, there is no better test than this: When American strategy in a critical theater was up for grabs, John McCain proposed a highly unpopular and risky path, which he accurately predicted could lead to success. Barack Obama proposed a popular and politically safe route that would have led to an unnecessary and debilitating American defeat at the hands of al Qaeda.

Frederick W. Kagan

Chief wins. Dumbest shit I’ve heard all year. Political group? What? I know many republican homosexuals and many democrat homosexuals. How do they fit into your simple little world, mr. educator? If you ever get near my kids, I’ll sick the ACLU on your ass so fast you won’t even know what hit you.

r108 comes in second

Tolerating an unfortunate malady isn’t the same as “greenlighting” it.  Even though we don’t disapprove of many other such disabilities, we still strive to cure them or ameliorate them in some way.

Homosexuality is only an ‘unfortunate malady’ to you and yours. Homosexuality IS greenlighted. Its legal. People are gay. Its OK. There’s nothing odd or wrong about it - its widespread and has been for milennia. It need not be cured any more than your lifestyle or opinions need to be cured. Thanks for the drivel, r108. Ain’t it time to get your emissions checked, again? I think California is having a negative impact on your ‘messing with other people’s lives’ stances. Furthermore, what makes you feel you are correct? What if you are wrong? Its bound to happen. Folk like you, r108, do not aid your party when you open your mouth.

Robert Perry

Actually, Sparkie, Athenian democracy existed well before Socrates came on the scene, and one of its notable accomplishments was to kill Socrates.  Athenian democracy also (thus) served the Founding Fathers as an example of what NOT to do in founding a nation.  Hence, we are a republic, not a democracy.

Well, where I’m from we have town meeting, direct/Athenian-style democracy. We still elect douche bags to parent us, ala r108, but we retain some control for ourselves. PS - republic my ass. we are a bit ‘top heavy’. your guy in the fancy house that is supposed to be fixing it ain’t.

So you hold that Socrates was worthless, apt to be killed? What? Shame on you Robert Perry. Those guys were so smart so early that it blows my mind. I like Zeno better. Historical philosophy is nowhere near as cool as the contemporary debates though, IMO. Modern metaphysics and epistemology are just plain bitchin’. That’s where all the people with the highest IQs hang out, anyway.

Homosexual men are usually unhappy depressed people. I don’t know if that is a “birth defect” one is born with, but it definitely isn’t an optimal situation. If it is inborn, it could easily be classified as a “birth defect”. Just check out the mental health statistics, the suicide statistics, and the crime rate. Gay men, despite their ‘gay’ moniker, by and large aren’t living happy lives.

Incidentally, I can’t say the same for gay women. Most of the gay women I have known are well adjusted and successful members of society.

Now granted, these are just my personal observations and they may or may not be correct.

Homosexual men are usually unhappy depressed people.

Its probably because of all the latent hate people like r108 and HG aren’t ashamed to air in public.

IMO, I would say the opposite of what Lik says. I know a lot more unhappy, messed up lesbians than I do homo males. Just what I’ve seen though. Some of my very very close friends are gay. I don’t feel there’s anything wrong with them. They feel a certain way and are lucky enough to live in a place where they can act according to their conscience. Go USA!

Its probably because of all the latent hate people like r108 and HG aren’t ashamed to air in public.

Doubt it. The gay men I know could care less what others say about them. Their demons come from the inside, rather than external forces.

IMO, I would say the opposite of what Lik says.

Hmmm...interesting.

Just so you know Sparkie Arbuckle, not that it is any of your business but I’ll tell you anyways so you can better understand my perspective - I used to live in a house full of gays. Back in 2000, there was a cheap room open for rent and my then girlfriend and I jumped on the opportunity of cheap rent while we looked for something more permanent. There was a depressed gay couple living downstairs, the good-hearted but ultimately depressed gay owner who lived upstairs (he used to run the ‘gay pride’ parades in Port Huron and Sarnia), along with a straight girl and a crazy-assed lesbian living on my floor. I would sometimes come home to a freaking gay party at the house. 30+ sweaty men drinking champaign out of crystal glasses. They would make the downstairs smell like some nasty locker room. It was definitely a colorful period of my life that I won’t ever forget. In addition to this, I had many close gay friends from the rave party scene. If I wasn’t with my girl or with one of my cousins, I was usually with one of my gay friends (this brought me the benefit of having all of the attractive girls at the clubs and parties swarming over to my gay friends; not my intention but I’ll take it). By and large, the gay friends I’ve had the pleasure of knowing are unhappy individuals who struggle with some very serious personal demons.

In the end and in my view, medical science would do well to find ways of ending the depression associated with so many homosexual people. If they could make the gays truly gay, then this humanitarian route is the one to take.

Its probably because of all the latent hate people like r108 and HG aren’t ashamed to air in public.

The homosexuals demand all society view thier behavior as genetic—without proof—and that homosexuality is normal—again, without proof.  And according to you those of us who refuse to accept these claims are haters?  It would seem to me that those who will not tolerate the majorities disagreement with their claims, and who claim that such dissent is hate, may be suffering additional genetic defects.

Funny you would rather drive the majority of people into the “closet” for our “shameful” public disagreement with the homosexual opinion.  I’d personally like to see homosexuals quit flaunting their homosexuality in our faces in an effort to force society to accept it.  I thought what goes on in the privacy of one’s bedroom is nobody’s business.  I sure wish the homosexual community would practice what it preaches.

HG and ChiefRZ: As a society we demand that people having sexual desires for children, even when they have these feeling when they are young, be restrained so that they will not harm children when they act out on these perverse sexual desires. Likewise, we demand that alcoholics and drug addicts get help for their own good and the benefit of those people whose lives they might impact.

The point is, civilized people recognizing that human beings are subject to perverse and dangerous desires either through laws or social condemnation, demand they resist those desires. Yet, it is strangely different when people want to engage in homosexual relations, conduct which at a minimum is a perversion of natural design and I believe a rejection of Divine Creation; and which presents serious health dangers for those directly involved and their heterosexual partners, then we want to call that behavior normative and despite no evidence in its support - a mere genetic aberration.

No matter how the homosexual lobby spins the truth, no rational person can deny that sodomy and the oral exchange of body fluids is a perversion of natural design. Nor can they honestly assert it is not a dangerous activity, presenting real health risks to our society and abnormal financial costs as well.

Why is this single perverse human behavior being accepted and promoted as normal? Out of compassion we don’t want to call these people perverted or make them feel unloved and not accepted. Okay, why don’t we feel the same way about child molestors, they have urges they say they cannot control, they have had these urges since they were quite young; and so why don’t we extend this same compassion and inclusion into society to them as we do homosexuals? What about those desiring mulitple marriages, how dare we pass laws saying polygamy is unlawful and perverse? Don’t they deserve compassion and be allowed to love others and have an alternative type of familiy just like homosexuals?

No matter the age or state of health, for a military man it is always glorious to tilt at windmills, rescue a fair Dulcinea and be a gallant knight in armor in a glorious cause.

lik
i have lived with lesbians - for about a year. it was… intolerable. not because they were gay, rather because they were the shittiest roomies ever. i have many homo male friends. that’s my angle.

The homosexuals demand all society view thier behavior as genetic—without proof—and that homosexuality is normal—again, without proof.

you speak in many tongues, i just didn’t know you spoke for the gays too. i.e. you are wrong.

knee-high-man

No matter how the homosexual lobby spins the truth, no rational person can deny that sodomy and the oral exchange of body fluids is a perversion of natural design.

did you say ‘natural design’?!? damn. what about intelligent design? you are anti-blowjob? does the bible speak out against that too? i don’t think its a perversion of natural design. so guys can’t do girls in the butt? no blowjobs? i am not a big fan of the former… but the latter...!?!

Why is this single perverse human behavior being accepted and promoted as normal?

The real question is why is believing in an invisible dude that made the whole universe considered normal? THat is some silly ass shit IMO. People who believe that are apt to believe ANYTHING.

It is outrageous to refer to sexual orientation as a defect, disability, or any other such term.

Sexual orientation is now widely accepted in the scientific community as being a physiological attribute.  It sits on a spectrum.  There are people who are profoundly heterosexual, profoundly homosexual, and everything in between.  There are also individuals who are asexual.

All of these are naturally occurring parts of the spectrum.  The term “normal” simply refers to the most average attribute within the spectrum.

No specific sexual orientation is a defect any more than having green eyes or being left-handed is.

So unless you are of medium height, medium build, with brown skin, brown eyes, dark hair, right-handed, with an IQ of precisely 100 ... you better watch who you call abnormal!

Sexual orientation is now widely accepted in the scientific community as being a physiological attribute.

Put that right up their with global warming.

Sparkie Arbuckle - i have lived with lesbians - for about a year. it was… intolerable. not because they were gay, rather because they were the shittiest roomies ever.

Sparkie, I respectfully submit that maybe the reason was because they were women. Women are catty.

Neiman - Yet, it is strangely different when people want to engage in homosexual relations, conduct which at a minimum is a perversion of natural design...

I would argue that it is in line with natural design. After all, we are base creatures a couple of steps away from monkeys. Monkeys, incidentally with a couple of species, that regularly sodomize each other in a show dominance. It might not be “natural design”, but it most definitely is natural. There are a lot of animals out there who release their sexual tension with members of the same sex. All arguments aside, this makes it natural!

Does it make it normal? Well, that’s another question with a different answer.

...and I believe a rejection of Divine Creation...

To a non-believer such as myself, this begs the question of why GOD made so many animals that are butt-taggingly gay.

What rejection? God loves gays!

THat is some silly ass shit IMO.

Hmm...your sarcasm uses these terms to mock natural theism, while at the same time defend those who prefer to sport themselves in the same.  Just an observation.

Spark Plug: Your atheism and hatred of all things Christian and/or religious has been duly noted on a zillion occasions, you don’t need to keep up your mindless attacks on people of faith, it is a waste of time.

xtempore: So, are sexual desires by adults for small, prepubescent children “naturally occurring parts of the [sexual] spectrum?” How about sexual desires for animals, are they just “naturally occurring parts of the [sexual] spectrum?” Or, how about polygamists, are the desires of these men to have sexual relations with many wives, some of them in their young teens years, “naturally occurring parts of the [sexual] spectrum?” How about women using artificial penises?

Is it or is it not a perversion of natural, anatomical design to stick a penis inside a rectum? Does or does not that regular sodomy stretch the anal orifice and is or is not this conduct the source of transmission of several unpleasant and even life threatening diseases? No matter how you spin it, such sexual conduct is a perversion of natural design and therefore it cannot be considered normal and it should not be approved by society.

You’ll notice I did not speak to the spiritual harm which is quite real, but only that when viewed from the stand point of natural anatomical design, sodomy is a perverse use of the penis and the rectum. Further, while heterosexuals love to receive a blow job, the exchange of semen into the oral cavity, the passage of bacteria into the oral and disgestive system was not the naturally designed use for either organ or fluid and thus is a perverse use thereof.

So, you may object to calling homosexual conduct abnormal, and you may think the earth is flat; but the evidence in both cases is overwhelmingly against you!

No matter the age or state of health, for a military man it is always glorious to tilt at windmills, rescue a fair Dulcinea and be a gallant knight in armor in a glorious cause.

After all, we are base creatures a couple of steps away from monkeys.

Lik, come on.  We are light years away from monkeys, intellectually, morally, socially, etc—without any transitional intelligent form, I might add.

The term “normal” simply refers to the most average attribute within the spectrum.

You could call approx. 90% of the population the “average”, but it is a gross understatement.  More accurately it would be the overwhelming majority.  Which lends all the more credibility of the arguments that homosexuality is a birth defect—if one is born with it.

I don’t like responding to likwidshoe, because he is incapable of civil debate with me, but I shall attempt for others posting here to respond:

It is an old, old, very tired trick to suggest that if God condemns certain behavior then He doesn’t love the person. God loves “whosoever” He created - that means every human being, but He does not love or accept those things He condemns and calls sin; and if any “whosovers” do not accept His Son as their Savior and Lord before they depart this physical life, by their own choice they have rejected His Lordship over their lives and they will suffer eternally by their own choosing, not His. A pardon is not a pardon unless it is accepted, and anyone rejecting God’s Divine Pardon will not benefit from any of the provisions thereof.

The genetic difference between monkeys and human beings is much, much greater that a couple of steps as you ignorantly suggest. “We also share about 50% of our DNA with bananas and that doesn’t make us half bananas, either from the waist up or the waist down.” “Now the genetic difference between a human and his nearest relative, the chimpanzee, is at least 1.6%. That doesn’t sound like much, but calculated out, that is a gap of at least 48,000,000 nucleotides, and a change of only 3 nucleotides is fatal to an animal; therefore there is no possibility of change. “just a few percentage points can translate into vast, unbridgeable gaps between species.”

Lik said: “To a non-believer such as myself, this begs the question of why GOD made so many animals that are butt-taggingly gay.” An animal behaving like an animal and forcefully raping another male is not a sign of homosexuality among animals, it is a sign of major difference between the lower order of animals and human beings, human beings reject forceful rape by sodomy, it is a crime and we punish those perverted rapists. Also, when Adam and Eve rejected God, the entire creation was polutted by perverse, sinful desires and when God creates a new heaven and a new earth, no such behavior even in the animal kingdom will be seen.

No matter the age or state of health, for a military man it is always glorious to tilt at windmills, rescue a fair Dulcinea and be a gallant knight in armor in a glorious cause.

Natural selection favors hetros since only they can procreate.  Anything else is an aberration aince it has no way of extending its life. i.e. if homosexuality waa genetically induced it would be a mule-like mutation that cannot recreate itself and would soon die out.  No, homosexuality is more likely just a form of a sexual perversion of which there are many others.

You don’t have to be a moron to be a liberal Democrat but it sure helps.

Yes, political group.  They demand “equal rights”.  What they mean is the type of affirmative action and “get out of jail free cards” that other “preferred minorities” have gained politically.  Do you not remember that the “(woman’s equal right’s” amendment was not passed in the USA even after it went into “overtime”?  Neiman.  Thanks for the comments.  For a few:  normal is defined as about 66 2/3%.  Homosexual behavior is maybe 3%.  That puts them at least three or four standard deviations from the norm.  In layman’s terms that would deviate from the mean.  Yes, we are all born sinners and need to repent and not sin again.  All this talk about “homophobia” is a straw man argument.  Just like the Duke Lacross players.  Brought out here on SA was the fact from the FBI statistics that 0.0% of black women are raped by white men.  Sparkie, do you have the FBI statistics on “homosexuals” being killed by “heterosexuals”?  Now, don’t leave out the number of “homo on homo” killings!  As for a teacher, I will leave my evaluation to those students I taught over 28 years.  I taught The Truth.  They knew it.  Some deviants rejected The Truth.  Many were drug users, wound up in jail and were as lik has stated, unhappy, depressed people.  They chose their lifestyle, they now live with the consequences of their sin/behavior(s), as we all do.

Communism is evil

They demand “equal rights”.

that’s a broad generalization. many gay people are happy to not marry as it is a christian-judeaic social institution. they just want the tax break and the end of life rights and all the other spousal type legal things. i don’t see that as a problem. what, black people are a political group too because they want equal rights? you are being an intentional simpleton and it ain’t advancing your contentions.

Chief: When people express their honest difference over the homosexual issue, it is an easy tactic to throw out terms like “homophobia” to shut down all criticism.

So, how about those attacking people having negative views of homosexuality from a biblical perspective, perhaps these terms will help: 1. Christophobic, an irrational fear of Christ and the Church. Or, 2. Aletheophobic: An irrational fear of Divine Truth. So when they accuse us of homophobia we can pull out psychiatric terms to describe their fears!

No matter the age or state of health, for a military man it is always glorious to tilt at windmills, rescue a fair Dulcinea and be a gallant knight in armor in a glorious cause.

Sparkie.  I did not say black people.  I said african-americans.  By that I refer to the “special preferred minority” who are elevated to jobs they are not qualified for.  Black, is way too generic term.  Negro is more specific to race as Caucasian is.  You are talking about changing the 1935 Social Security law that provides for “windows and orphans” to benefit from the death of a husband.  I am glad that you “cut to the chase.” This gay issue is about money.  This can be changed (or corrected is I guess your issue) by simply changing the federal laws on Social Security to make “households” any two (or three?) or more? people who live together for? pick a number of years and then collect money when one of them dies.  What tax break? Head of household?  A single person can claim that now if they are the parent of a child.  What end of life rights?  Stop being devious.  You missed the “equal rights” quotes.  That is a strawman argument.  What the feminists wanted was extra rights.  They now have the trump card.  Homosexuals simply want the same cards that african-americans now have.  Soon everyone will have “equal rights”, but some will be more equal than others!  Simpleton?  hardly, just cutting through the fog and stating The Truth.

Communism is evil

Fatty A: Every so-called racial group engages in political activism, not seeking equal rights, without exception they are demanding special rights.

Why should homosexuals, people who are not legally married be granted the same legal and financial rights of married people? If their sexual and by extension their living arrangements are abnormal, then they should not be granted either the right to marry or the financial an dlegal rights associated with marriage and which were designed to help keep the heterosexual family intact?

No matter the age or state of health, for a military man it is always glorious to tilt at windmills, rescue a fair Dulcinea and be a gallant knight in armor in a glorious cause.

HG - Lik, come on.  We are light years away from monkeys, intellectually, morally, socially, etc—without any transitional intelligent form, I might add.

We are still creatures that cater to our base needs. Or, in the sexual sense, our base wants.

Neiman - I don’t like responding to likwidshoe, because he is incapable of civil debate with me, but I shall attempt for others posting here to respond:

You are describing yourself. Witness the below incivilities.

It is an old, old, very tired trick to suggest that if God condemns certain behavior then He doesn’t love the person.

No one ever claimed that. You’re building a straw man. But I can see why you’re saying it. Maybe I should have said this instead:

GOD LOVES MAKING GAY ANIMALS

If I don’t say so myself, that’s a much better way of saying what I meant.

The genetic difference between monkeys and human beings is much, much greater that a couple of steps as you ignorantly suggest.

Who spoke of genetics? And how big are these couple of steps? This is another built straw man. It is ignorantly built because it is done with so much bluster. Amateur.

“We also share about 50% of our DNA with bananas and that doesn’t make us half bananas, either from the waist up or the waist down.”

More genetics. And new talk of being half of something.

Incidentally, if you were measuring a “step” as 25% of shared DNA, you could say that we are a couple of steps away from a banana. That would be a totally accurate statement. Just thinking out loud there and further destroying Neiman’s off-topic rant.

“Now the genetic difference between a human and his nearest relative, the chimpanzee, is at least 1.6%. That doesn’t sound like much, but calculated out, that is a gap of at least 48,000,000 nucleotides, and a change of only 3 nucleotides is fatal to an animal; therefore there is no possibility of change. “just a few percentage points can translate into vast, unbridgeable gaps between species.”

More off-topic genetic talk.

Incidentally, if we were measuring “steps” as the things we have in common in the same vein - mammals, walk upright, two arms, legs, hands & feet, ten fingers and ten toes, cries, laughs, likes to fuck, usually monogamous, raises kids, similar family structure - then we’re only a couple of steps away.

If you want to get into genetic talk, then it’s another story. If you want to compare the intellect, then it’s another story.

An animal behaving like an animal and forcefully raping another male is not a sign of homosexuality among animal...

A lot of those monkeys throw their asses into the air. That’s not rape. Furthermore, some species CUM and that puts it into the category of sexual. It’s not only about dominance when you throw that huge variable in.

Also, when Adam and Eve rejected God, the entire creation was polutted by perverse, sinful desires and when God creates a new heaven and a new earth, no such behavior even in the animal kingdom will be seen.

That’s hilarious. A heaven without gays.

Thanks for the laugh Neiman.

In response to Neiman...

Sexual Orientation - Nature and Nurture

I stand by what I said with regards to the spectrum of sexual orientation.  “Orientation” in this term means a preference towards, or an inclination to.  There is no doubt that environmental factors can play a part, thought these are the exceptions rather than the rule.  The same applies to any other physical attribute.  I am 6ft tall, but no doubt if my childhood diet had been deficient in protein, or I had been exposed to high levels of toxins I would be shorter.

Similarly a person’s sexual orientation can be affected one way or the other by what happens to them during their up-bringing. 

As sentient beings we also have a conscious mind that can make a choice about our actions, so that many naturally homosexual people who live in restrictive backwards societies chose to act against their natural inclinations.

Pedophilia etc - Violate rights

I have not seen any studies that indicate a genetic predisposition towards bestiality nor pedophilia, but I think it reasonable to assume that these are do indeed make up a small part of the spectrum.

The important difference is that these inclinations, for example pedophilia, if acted upon violate the rights of the child, and we apply this equally to homosexual or heterosexual cases.

Consenting homosexual relationships do not violate anyone’s rights, and as such it puzzles me greatly as to why we continue to see such hatred and discrimination against people.

Natural design

Is it natural to…
* eat ice-cream
* go on a roller coaster
* watch television
* drive a car

I’m assuming you do at least one of these?

As for anal sex, my understanding (though I can’t speak from experience) is that it is pleasurable and very natural to those who are so inclined.

Polygamy

Actually I think for a male to want to have sex with more than one female is very natural!  I find laws against polygamy to be rather laughable.  After all there is no law against having a mistress, and huge numbers of Americans do cheat on their husbands/wives.  For those that it suits, it seems that being open and honest in ones desire to have multiple partners seems healthier.

Personally it’s not for me.  I have enough trouble with one wife, and if I had more I fear they’d gang up on me!

You mentioned spirituality in passing. As there is a reasonable chance you have a Christian leaning, then I have some names for you… Abraham, Moses, Solomon.

Disease

Sexual activity, heterosexual or homosexual, can spread disease.  AIDS is rampant in Africa, and most of it’s victims are heterosexual.  Homosexuality does not cause disease.  Viruses, bacteria, amoebas, and fungus cause disease.

Flat earth?

I’m not sure what it was that I said that gave you the impression that I might think the earth was flat.

What is Normal?

Can you clarify what you mean by “abnormal”?

Most attributes fall onto something like a skewed bell curve.  In the homosexual-heterosexual spectrum, then the fat part of the curve is somewhere around “moderately heterosexual”.  Perhaps you fit inside that, and so you want to call anyone who doesn’t “abnormal”.  But the same can be applied to many attributes and I doubt you fit into the “norm” for all of them.

For example the male/female ratio for the world is 1.014:1 - That means being male is the norm.  I’m sure that most women would object to being called “abnormal”!

Of the worlds population, people of Asian descent make up the largest number.  Therefore if you are not Asian you are “abnormal”.

Obviously this list could go on, and on and on.  The conclusion would result in a person who is…
Asian, male, 162cm tall, weighs 70kg, is 27.4 years old, speaks Mandarin, is a Christian, is moderately heterosexual, has 3 children, has an IQ of 100, is right-handed, ...

I’m not sure how many people fit would fit all the criteria, but I guess the rest of us are “abnormal”.

Neiman.  Those are good ones.  Have you added them to the wikipedia “dictionary” like I did with heterophobia?  Yes, “they” want special rights.  It reminds me of the “special permission” some of my more devious students would try on me while I was teaching!  The lie is that they do not want equal rights (notice the absence of quotation marks) they want, no demand carte blanche “special permission” to do whatever they please, break any and all laws, rape, murder, rob, and abuse law abiding citizens.  They are a depraved sub-group and actually take down the whole group.  The good citizens are scared to confront them just like many in Iraq, but today we saw yet another example of common, ordinary citizens rise up against the depraved Al-Qaeda Muslems.

Communism is evil

xtempore.  You do not know that much about scientific statistical analysis.  There must be a statistical difference between the means.  Using the world’s population as the population, there would have to be a much larger difference than .014 to approach a difference.  There is no doubt that 3-5% is several deviations from the norm.  The 5% I used to cover your “moderate” generalized definition (construct).  Stop trying to overgeneralize.  We are talking about being or not being homosexual.  The alternate is heterosexual.  Is there a third possibility in your thoughts?  Yes.  Homosexuality is mostly a learned behavior, just like lying, telling the truth, stealing, working, loving others, developing phobias, and reading and writing English.

Communism is evil

Special rights

WOOF.  What are you doing?  Special Rights.  This picture may even be a group of criminals.  I could post numerous picture of millions of people enslaved by communists over the centuries, and some as recent as this year.  When was that picture taken?  My guess is over a hundred years ago.  Certain people continue to play the victim status card long after generations have passed.

Communism is evil

It makes sense that all should receive the tax benefits of married couples.. not just homosexuals.  The tax code is no way to promote lifestyle choices.  A flat tax would eliminate this whole ridiculous exercise in behavioral modification through tax incentives.  So yeah, give homosexuals the same tax benefits.  The current tax code does discriminate against some, but none more that the most successful among us.

HG.  How does the present tax code “discriminate” (illegally) against homosexual behavior.  Would you also give the same “breaks” to two people of the opposite sex “living in sin”?  The way I see it, they get a disproportionate amount of tax money to combat their AIDS/HIV/STDs.  Your proposal for the “flat/fair tax” would have nothing to do with Social Security benefits.  Yes, tax codes now do promote lifestyle changes.  They encourage homeownership, buying “electric” cars, paying state taxes, and numerous other pet projects.

Communism is evil

xtempore: You err greatly when you brought up polygamy and Christianity as if connected. With the New Covenant between God and man, marriage is to be between one man and one woman in holy wedlock. Not many women and one man, or two men or two women. Christianity is associated with the New Testament Church. Abraham, Moses and etcetera were part of the Old Covenant; and with Christ and the Gospel of Grace the Old Covenant was replaced with the new.

Regarding the spreading of disease, I didn’t ask about disease generally or what causes disease, nor did I mention sexually transmitted diseases in in other context than the simple question of whether or not sodomy is a source of sexually transmitted diseases. It cannot reasonably be denied that AIDs was first found among the homosexual community in this country, and despite the original source or what happens in other countries, homosexual conduct was the major source of original transmission among homosexuals and through them into the heterosexual community. But, you raised the AIDS question, I was talking about stirring ones penis in the poop shoot of another man and that being a source of harm to the anal orifice and a source of disease transmission. But, you want to obfuscate the issues I raised by bringing up other issues.

Your constant harangue about what is normal and what is abnormal is a silly distraction from the facts. Throughout all human history homosexual attraction and conduct has been among a tiny minority of any population, and it is a clear violation of natural design and thus by any reasonable definition it is abnormal behavior, and acting on those urges is a lifestyle choice, it can be resisted.

You said, “Consenting homosexual relationships do not violate anyone’s rights, and as such it puzzles me greatly as to why we continue to see such hatred and discrimination against people.” I want to educate you, there is a huge difference between objecting to homosexual conduct, whether from a natural or Christian point of view and hating homosexuals. Discrimination despite the liberal attempt to change the definition, only means to recognize differences in someone or some thing and is not by its nature either good or bad, just a fact of life. Christ and therefore Christians, hate the sin of homosexuality, among many others, viewing it as a rejection of God’s Lordship, it being a form of idolatry; but they genuinely love the homosexual more than those saying the support that lifestyle choice, we do so by offering them God’s unconditional love. If I tell you that you are dying of cancer, am I expressing hatred towards you or am I acting in true love to hopefully save your life? If I speak out against homosexuality, an act condemned by God, I am not expressing hate for any homosexual but rather in true Love, God’s Love, I am seeking to point out the spiritual, temporal and eternal risks of that lifestyle choice and by God’s Grace I hope to bring them to Christ and His Salvation, which is the ultimate expression of Love.

You said “I have not seen any studies that indicate a genetic predisposition towards bestiality nor pedophilia.” Neither is there any credible, objective scientific studies that prove homosexuality results from a genetic predisposition. Those few studies I have seen have been dishonest in that they do not differentiate between causation and effect; that is, were any spurious physiological changes noted a cause of homosexual desire or did homosexual desire and conduct cause those changes.

likwidshoe: Your constant attack mentality and ridicule of Christ and the Church speaks to something very unhealthy in your emotional makeup, it does not change the Truth nor does it diminish one iota the Love of God for you and every human being. Lastly, remember this truth: A Pardon is not a pardon unless it is accepted, Jesus paid the penalty for every sin of every human being ever born; but that pardon has no value or effect on your eternal fate if you reject it, it is a free, unconditional gift; but if you don’t acccept it, it is your loss and your choice.

It is late and my grandson wants my computer for a while, so I probably won’t respnd any further tonight!

No matter the age or state of health, for a military man it is always glorious to tilt at windmills, rescue a fair Dulcinea and be a gallant knight in armor in a glorious cause.

RZ: I didn’t know definitions could be added to Wikipedia!

I have enjoyed your several well thought out, reasonable and gentlemanly responses to this thread. Unfortunately, because I am more direct I get more attacks, but that is the price I pay for my personality!

No matter the age or state of health, for a military man it is always glorious to tilt at windmills, rescue a fair Dulcinea and be a gallant knight in armor in a glorious cause.

Everybody in the picture has special rights. Some special rights are more special. Bet on it.
Judging by the suit/hat 1930’s

CCI: The State Penitentiary in
South Carolina

1866 to 1994

Neiman, I too will say goodnight, but will check back to see if any have responded with facts.  Good summary to xtempore.

Communism is evil

Chief RZ

The Normal distribution is well defined, and your statement…
“There is no doubt that 3-5% is several deviations from the norm.”
... is fundamentally inaccurate.  The normal distribution is such that 68% of the population is within 1 standard deviation of the mean, 95% within 2 stddevs and 99.7% within 3.  So the percentage within “several deviations” is practically 0.

1.014:1 is a ratio.  It means that for every 1000 women there are 1014 men, or that 50.3% of the worlds population is male.  Therefore being male is the norm.  The alternative analysis is to not split the population in this way and take an average which would mean someone who is half male and half female - a biological impossibility.

The reality, which I was trying to demonstrate, is that there is really no such thing as a normal person when every possible attribute is considered.

Classifying people as being or not being homosexual is inaccurate.  It is a spectrum.  As I already said some people are profoundly heterosexual, some are moderately, some are only just, some are bisexual with a preference for the opposite gender, some are bisexual with no strong preference, some are bisexual with a preference for the same gender, some are slightly homosexual, moderately homosexual or profoundly homosexual. (There’s also asexual, but the strength of sexual drive is on a different axis).

I would rate myself towards the highly heterosexual end of the scale.  I have friends from across the spectrum. 

One of my best friends I would characterize as profoundly homosexual. To him the thought of sexual relations with a woman is extremely unappealing.  From his early teens he has been attracted to other men.  He has never felt the slightest attraction to women.

Another friend who was slightly homosexual actually met a woman who he was attracted to.  Their married now and have a child.

I have other friends who are bisexual. One male friend is attracted to both genders, but with a slight leaning towards women.  Similarly a female friend who is attracted to both genders, but overall prefers women.

The predominant theme I have noticed amongst those who post negative comments about homosexuality, is that they focus most strongly and almost exclusively on homosexual men.

One has to wonder why.

WOOF.  Alright, I guessed correctly.  Criminals.  All, even the policeman have special rights.  Everyone has God given rights to life liberty and persuit of happiness unless and until one tries to take them away from another, and lands themselves in jail.  Some special rights are more special sounds like the communits’ lie:  some are more equal than others!

Communism is evil

How does the present tax code “discriminate” (illegally) against homosexual behavior.  Would you also give the same “breaks” to two people of the opposite sex “living in sin”?

The current tax code or rates to be exact, confiscates a lower percentage of income from some than others.  A truly fair and equitable tax rate would be a flat rate payed by all regardless of income. 

Behavior modification via the tax code isn’t the responsibility of government.  Government serves one purpose very well… national security.  Social security is the responsiblity of individuals not society.