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Wednesday, October 18, 2006

Habeas Corpus Dies a Quick Death

Habeas Corpus (United States of America)—1789-2006

I was unable to comment yesterday about the death of Habeas Corpus for a couple of reasons… 1) I was trying to meet a deadline with the paper.  2) Tuesday’s are busy for me regardless.  3) It got late and I got tired.  4) I WAS MOURNING A DEATH.

Yesterday was truly a sad day.  I woke up full of piss and vinegar (as the old folks say) ready to take on my day’s busy schedule.  As I was getting dressed I turned on the television and saw that President Bush was preparing to sign the Military Commissions Act.  I understood what the signing of this law meant, hence the reason for such saddness—If you have been living under a rock or you are just one of the majority of apathetic Americans who are willing to let Congress (and especially the President) shred the Constitution, then you need to watch this.  With that signing, the United States no longer recognizes habeas corpus and we reserve the right to torture.

Article I.  Section 9.—U.S. Constitution
The privilege of the writ of habeas corpus shall not be suspended, unless when in cases of rebellion or invasion the public safety may require it.

It is Section 7 of the Military Commissions Act, titled appropriately—Habeas Corpus Matters, that explicitly counters the right of habeas corpus in the Constitution:

`(e)(1) No court, justice, or judge shall have jurisdiction to hear or consider an application for a writ of habeas corpus filed by or on behalf of an alien detained by the United States who has been determined by the United States to have been properly detained as an enemy combatant or is awaiting such determination.

Please note the item in bold… awaiting such dertermination—meaning, you can be held indefinately without just cause, simply because the King President says so.

Don’t be duped to think the Military Commissions Act is only a measure that will affect “terrorists”.  The bill clearly says that you or I could be detained and left to rot in prison without trial if we are determined to be an “enemy combatant”.  The new law defines an enemy combatant as such:

(1) UNLAWFUL ENEMY COMBATANT- (A) The term `unlawful enemy combatant’ means--

`(i) a person who has engaged in hostilities or who has purposefully and materially supported hostilities against the United States or its co-belligerents who is not a lawful enemy combatant (including a person who is part of the Taliban, al Qaeda, or associated forces); or

`(ii) a person who, before, on, or after the date of the enactment of the Military Commissions Act of 2006, has been determined to be an unlawful enemy combatant by a Combatant Status Review Tribunal or another competent tribunal established under the authority of the President or the Secretary of Defense.

Let me put the highlighted section into terms you can understand.  The Constitution says that you and I have the right to “petition the government for a redress of grievances”.  Meaning, if the government is not working within the boundries set forth in the Constitution, we as citizens have the power to cease continuation of that ”tryannical” government and may start over.  The founding fathers recognized that governments are instituted by man and therefore this new government was going to need safeguards against those men who chose to manipulate the powers granted them by the people and by the Constitution (read Madison Federalist No. 10)

Essentially what the President (and Congress) has done has put within the powers of the Executive Branch, the power to determine, by a small faction of men (Combatant Status Review Tribunal), who among ligitimate terrorists and American citizens alike may be deemed an “enemy combatant”.  An enemy combatant, under the Military Commissions Act, could be an American citizen who may be exercising his/her right to “petition the government for a redress of grievances” or more simply may disagree with the current administration. 

Where will the oversight come from?  Obviously not the Congress if they are so easily willing to usurp the authorties of the Constitution.

I am very disturbed by what I saw in Congress over the last few weeks concerning this matter.  There were a few—only a few—prominent Senators to speak out on the floor of the Senate against the Military Commissions Act and it’s usurpation of the Constitution in regards to habeas corpus.  Those Senators, all democrats, were John Kerry (MA), Patrick Leahy (VT), and Harry Reid (NV) and they all voted against the bill. 

There was a republican Senator, Arlen Specter (PA), who spoke out against the bill… BUT HE VOTED FOR PASSAGE OF THE BILL!!! 

How can he say the following and then vote for such horrible legislation, that, as he points out correctly, should not be legislation—but should be an amendment to the Constitution.

There are four fundamental, undeniable principles and facts involved in the issue we are debating today. The first undeniable principle is that a statute cannot overrule a Supreme Court decision on constitutional grounds, and a statute cannot contradict an explicit constitutional provision. That is point No. 1.

Point No. 2, the Constitution is explicit in the statement that habeas corpus may be suspended only with rebellion or invasion.

Fact No. 3, uncontested. We do not have a rebellion or an invasion.

Fact and principle No. 4, the Supreme Court says that aliens are covered by habeas corpus.

We have already had considerable exposition of the opinion by Justice O’Connor that the constitutional right of habeas corpus applies to individuals, which means citizens and aliens. The case of Rasul v. Bush, which explicitly involved an alien, says this in the opinion of Justice Stevens speaking for the Court:

Habeas corpus received explicit recognition in the Constitution, which forbids the suspension of--

Then Justice Stevens cites the constitutional provision.

The privilege of the writ of habeas corpus cannot be suspended unless in the cases of rebellion or invasion, and neither is present here. So you have the express holding of the Supreme Court in Rasul v. Bush that habeas corpus applies to aliens.

[...]

What this bill would do in striking habeas corpus would take our civilized society back some 900 years to King John at Runnymede which led to the adoption of the Magna Charta in 1215, which is the antecedent for habeas corpus and was the basis for including in the Constitution of the United States the principle that habeas corpus may not be suspended.

I believe it is unthinkable, out of the question, to enact Federal legislation today which denies the habeas corpus right which would take us back some 900 years and deny the fundamental principle of the Magna Charta imposed on King John at Runnymede.

[...]

The distinguished chairman of the Armed Services Committee has said that he does not want to have this matter come back to Congress. But surely as we are standing here, if this bill is passed and habeas corpus is stricken, we will be on this floor again rewriting the law.

That has to be one of the most brilliant arguments against passage of the Military Commissions Act, BUT HE WENT AHEAD AND VOTED FOR THE BILL ANYWAY; even after uttering that last line.  What a joke!  And he has 4 more years before Pennsylvania voters will have a chance to oust him from his seat, but do you think those voters will remember his words and his despicable vote in Sept/Oct of 2006?

[OLBERMANN ALERT—DAVE MILLER WILL NOW MENTION KEITH OLBERMANN AND HIS JOKE OF A SHOW SHOW ON MSNBC]

Last night on Countdown with Keith Olberman, he (of couse) discussed the signing of the Military Commissions Act by President Bush (SPECIAL COMMENT TONIGHT—8/7 CT).  One of his guests was Jonathan Turley, a constitutional law professor at The George Washington University Law School.  Turley’s words could easily be described as concerning.

People have no idea how significant this is. Really a time of shame this is for the American system.—The strange thing is that we have become sort of constitutional couch potatoes. The Congress just gave the President despotic powers and you could hear the yawn across the country as people turned to Dancing With the Stars. It’s otherworldly..People clearly don’t realize what a fundamental change it is about who we are as a country. What happened today changed us. And I’m not too sure we’re gonna change back anytime soon.

Almost every day I talk to students for the stories that I work on and when I’ve mentioned habeas corpus, they look at me and their eyes roll back into their head.  One freshman woman, and I use the term woman loosely, said to me, “Like, what is habus corps?” (yes, I spelled it like she said it). 

My response to this, seemingly nice but obviously brain dead freshman was, “Like, nevermind.  It’s a group of like, dead old men.” Where’s the AFLAC duck in the Yogi Berra commercial when you need him?

I am not naive, contrary to popular belief.  Students don’t give a damn about this issue, or many others for that matter.  Hell, most you reading this are only still reading to see what I might write next; will it be funny or just down right ridiculous (at the same time quite funny)?  I talk about the Constitution and I hold the document in very high regard.  Often times while doing so it becomes laughable to many.  I can’t tell you how many emails I receive from people who tell me that the Constitution is nothing more than an old piece of paper that merely set a framework for “how” to organize a government and therefore does not deserve to be praised as if sacred.  My only response to those people is that they obviously did not pay attention in their junior high civics class—we are talking about American Government 101.

What will it take for people to notice the blatant Congressional/Presidental shredding of the Constitution? 

It was only on September 6 of this year when President Bush stood before the press, and the American people, in the East Room of the White House and “uged”, almost demanded, that Congress pass his military tribunal—slash—torture allowing—slash—constitution shredding legislation.  In less than a month Congress passed the legislation (sound familiar—patriot act?) and only two weeks later did the President sign the bill. 

The death of habeas corpus was a quick one and nearly no one noticed.  So, watch what you say.  If you plan to protest, be carefull.  You could find yourself locked away and not knowing why.  Forget about due process.  Forget about the right to an attorney.  Forget about your “one phone call”.  You won’t be getting any of those things.  You won’t be told why you were arrested and you won’t be allowed to ask a judge to force your captors to disclose why they are holding you.  President Bush (and Congress) killed an explicit Constitutional right in just over a month… WOW!!!

Related Items:

House vote
Senate vote
Thorough coverage by Glenn Greenwald
United States Constitution
Federalist Papers
Military Commissions Act

Comments

Avatar for gregdn

Doc:
Doesn’t the Constitution specifically allow for the suspension of Habeas Corpus in times of “Insurrection or Invasion” ?

gregdn on October 18, 2006 at 12:44 pm
Rob
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What Dave is missing is that this part of the Military Commissions Act:

`(e)(1) No court, justice, or judge shall have jurisdiction to hear or consider an application for a writ of habeas corpus filed by or on behalf of an alien detained by the United States who has been determined by the United States to have been properly detained as an enemy combatant or is awaiting such determination.

Is explicitly constitutional as per Article III of the Constitution which clearly indicates that Congress has the power to determine which cases federal courts can and cannot hear, and even the time and place they can hear them.

There is nothing unconstitutional about Congress telling any federal court (up to and including military tribunals) what cases they can and cannot hear.

Further, let’s also remember that the law passed by Congress applies not to U.S. citizens but rather detainees in the war on terror.  Thus, not all constitutional protections apply.  There is no habeas corpus for prisoners of war, and these terror detainees wouldn’t even be considered prisoners of war had Hamdan vs. Rumsfeld not mandated that distinction.


When the people fear their government, there is tyranny; when the government fears the people, there is liberty.

-- Thomas Jefferson

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Rob on October 18, 2006 at 12:57 pm
Avatar for gregdn

Doc:
Actually I was referring to Lincoln.  Wouldn’t the Civil War be an ‘insurrection’?

gregdn on October 18, 2006 at 01:02 pm

Dave:  settle down and do your own thinking about this.

You’ve been watching too much MSNBC all conspiracies all of the time.

Removing Habeas Corpus from the enemy combatants is prudent and constitutional.  I for one don’t fret that our enemies don’t get all of our Constitutional protections.


What’s going to happen to US industry when the global warming extremists like John McCain double the price of electricity?  I would think all these factories will close and set up in countries where they aren’t scared of technology.


The Whistler's signature
The Whistler on October 18, 2006 at 01:08 pm

DaveW,

‘Es not quite dead yet.

What you fail to note is that the law specifically exempts “United States Persons” (a term from the FIS Act which means all Citizens of the United States and Permanent Resident Aliens ["green" card holders]) from the acts.  Thus Congress was limiting the right of Habeus Corpus to United States Citizens, while restricting such access for foreign nationals to the review chain established for the Status Determination Tribunals, all in accordance with the black letter of Geneva III.

Here endeth the lesson.

Out Here
Rodney Graves


Out Here
Rodney G. Graves

Ceterum censeo Parthia esse delendam
Latin: “Furthermore, Parthia (Persia aka modern day Iran) should be destoyed”

Rodney Graves on October 18, 2006 at 01:11 pm

...who among ligitimate terrorists…

What are you talking about?  Terrorists are not “legitimate”, by any meaning of the word “legitimate”.
Your thinking that terrorists are “legitimate” destroys your entire argument, because this bill is exactly about dealing with non-legitimate combatants, not normal American citizens.  Get over yourself.


If you don’t know by now, don’t mess with it.

robert108 on October 18, 2006 at 01:31 pm
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It’s worth noting that President Bush has not “suspended Habeas Corpus” here.  This wasn’t even technically an act of the President, though he certainly supported it.  This was an act of Congress which narrowly defined the jurisdiction of the courts in specific instances.  Which, as I’ve already pointed out, is something which is explicitly constitutional as per Article III of the constitution.


When the people fear their government, there is tyranny; when the government fears the people, there is liberty.

-- Thomas Jefferson

Rob’s recently listened-to songs:

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Rob on October 18, 2006 at 01:32 pm

Good catch Robert, I certainly didn’t read it that closely.


What’s going to happen to US industry when the global warming extremists like John McCain double the price of electricity?  I would think all these factories will close and set up in countries where they aren’t scared of technology.


The Whistler's signature
The Whistler on October 18, 2006 at 01:41 pm

Since none of these “brave warriors of allah” are US citizens the Constitution does not apply. The Geneva Conventions classify these as brigands/bandits, and the only right guarnteed them is a swift execution. Why are we still pissing away time on them?


Una Salus Victus Nullam Sperare Salutem

2Hotel9 on October 18, 2006 at 01:52 pm

Amen, Hotel.

These are not US citizens, nor are they lawful combatants. TRhe privelige and right of habeas corpus does not apply. I wish these people would get over it.


Election ‘08 - We Are So Screwed

Pilgrim on October 18, 2006 at 02:16 pm

(e)(1) No court, justice, or judge shall have jurisdiction to hear or consider an application for a writ of habeas corpus filed by or on behalf of an alien detained by the United States who has been determined by the United States to have been properly detained as an enemy combatant or is awaiting such determination.

US citizens are not aliens.  Am I right?


Fileitunder.com

Hoodlumman on October 18, 2006 at 02:22 pm
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You’re right.

Amazing how Dave and Keith Olbermann missed that.


When the people fear their government, there is tyranny; when the government fears the people, there is liberty.

-- Thomas Jefferson

Rob’s recently listened-to songs:

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Rob on October 18, 2006 at 02:27 pm

Has anyone ever seen Dave Miller and Kieth Olbermann together?  Say at a tin foil convention?


What’s going to happen to US industry when the global warming extremists like John McCain double the price of electricity?  I would think all these factories will close and set up in countries where they aren’t scared of technology.


The Whistler's signature
The Whistler on October 18, 2006 at 02:31 pm

Boy… there is so much to respond to.  I apologize for not being Johnny on the spot, but I was speaking with Constitutional Law professor about a previous article I wrote hear at USD. 

I will be speaking with this same professor in the very near future about the Military Commissions Act specifically and hope to get a deeper understanding of the language used in the bill.  I can paraphrase his characterization about this subject in just a few short words… the constitutional law community is incredibly concerned.  More concerned are the international lawyers and the criminal defense lawyers.  This professor said what I pointed out through Senator Specter’s floor comments above, that Congress, and the President, made a remarkable simple error including the suspension of habeas corpus (for anyone) in this bill.  Because the Constitution explicity grants habeas corpus rights, the more prudent path for Congress, and the President, would have been to propose and ratify an amendment.

With that said, there is concern about how this legislation could possibly be overturned?  Sure, there are a lot of politics involved, but the road to the Supreme Court would be even harder.  There is more to that but I would be through out more questions than answers.

To what has mentioned in the comments. 

1) This was not a rant.  If you want to see a rant on this subject give me a few minutes.  This was far from a rant.

2) I might be mistaken, but I read once that Lincoln struggled with suspending habeas corpus.  He suspended it knowing the Civil War was such an extraordinary event, one he though he could end sooner rather than later (sounds familiar), and those imprisoned would be able to be released after the war was complete with no ‘further’ penalties applied.  And many civil war prisoners were summarily released (on both sides) in such a way prior to the war’s end.

Plead ignorance on the Lincoln situation, I have not studied up on that.  I was arguing President Bush’s actions, not Lincoln’s anyway.

3. This IS Bush’s problem.

So putting all of this on Bush’s shoulders shows only your limited knowledge of history and your bias. Additionally, Bush does abide by the courts rulings so if as you assert that the Act is unconstitutional, the courts will set it right.  So your scare tactics are mostly a bunch of hot air.

First of all, President Bush does not abide by the courts rulings completely, example—signing statements.  Although there has not been a specific ruling directly outlawing signing statements, they are clearly actions taken by the Executive Branch that are not explicitly granted in the Constitution.

The Military Commissions Actis one bill he did not need a signing statement for.  Why?  The White House wrote the law, NOT CONGRESS.  Which Rob says:

It’s worth noting that President Bush has not “suspended Habeas Corpus” here.  This wasn’t even technically an act of the President, though he certainly supported it.  This was an act of Congress which narrowly defined the jurisdiction of the courts in specific instances.

As I stated above, the President on Sept. 6 announced that he was presenting Congress with this legislation (as all Presidents do) to “urgently” pass and put on his desk to sign.  Like good little puppets, Congress obliged.  All the while failing their duties by giving the President powers the Executive Branch has no authority under the Constitution to have.

4. Doesn’t the Constitution specifically allow for the suspension of Habeas Corpus in times of “Insurrection or Invasion”? —Again, Article I, Section 9 says:

The privilege of the writ of habeas corpus shall not be suspended, unless when in cases of rebellion or invasion the public safety may require it.

Are we under current invastion?  No.  Were we previously invaded?  No.  We were attacked, but not invaded in the military sense of the word.  Is there a rebellion?  Definately not.

5. United States citizens CAN be considered as “enemy combatants” as laid out in MCA.  Determining who is an enemy combatant is entirely up to the Combatant Status Review Tribunal (members “appointed” by the President).  For example, say you operate a blog and you link to or write about actions of Al-Qaeda, if you show any “material support for” (which is extremely vague… hence the vague example) this organization or many other “unnamed” organizations or groups, you could be considered an enemy combatant and you habeas corpus right is now gone.

Crap… unfortunately I have to go.  I want to address the other issues brought up, especially what I was refering to with the legitimate terrorist comment.  Talk amongst yourself.  I hope to be back to respond and re-enter the discussion around midnight.

Oh, one more thing… in terms of me showing my bias on this issue, I will say this once and I leave it up to you to take my word on this—If it were a Democratic President who forwarded this bill to Congress and signed this bill, I would be making the same case that the Constitution is being violated.  I am at the cusp of determining what area of law, government, politics and media that I want to focus on and the Constitution (especially the First Amendment) are high priorities.  I’m in this to learn.  If I make an incorrect statement, I hope it is pointed out and I will do further research and clarify in the future.  I’m not taking my talking points from MSNBC, although Keith Olbermann is hunting down the right path in my opinion.  It is important for me to make this comment, because there are no other members in the mainstream media that are paying any attention to this issue.  If the MSM is so liberally biased, why aren’t the newscasts flooded with “The Death of Habeas Corpus” headlines?  The media, more specifically JOURNALISTS, are not doing their jobs.  The MCA needs to be investigated by journalists and it needs to be discussed.  That is my goal, that is my attempt.  Call this a disclaimer, call it what you what, but from here on out I will dismiss all comments directed at me concerning some sort of bias as feable attempt to simply get a partisan jab in when you can.

I appreciate Rob asking me to contribute to Say Anything and I hope my contributions are substantive and fuel “civil” debate.

Dave W on October 18, 2006 at 02:37 pm

First of all, President Bush does not abide by the courts rulings completely, example—signing statements.

How is that unconstitutional.  At the least its his take on how the Administrative branch should enforce the law.  Bureaucrats do that all the time, why not their boss?  Dave?

When the courts interpret a law they are supposed to look at the debate of the law to see how the lawmakers wanted it enforced.  Since the President takes no minutes in his decision how else can he enter his thoughts for posterity?

Finally on this matter Dave, President Bush is far from the first chief executive to issue signing statements.  Sure he’s done it more but the precedent is already there.

Considering that, I find it startling that you think that the President must wait for the Supreme Court to approve signing statements before the President can issue them.  Where does that end Dave?  Does he have to go to the <s>King</s> I mean court everytime he does anything?

Anyway that’s what I picked out scanning your rant. Maybe I’ll go through it again or maybe I’ll watch Keith Olbermann and his tin foil hat show.


What’s going to happen to US industry when the global warming extremists like John McCain double the price of electricity?  I would think all these factories will close and set up in countries where they aren’t scared of technology.


The Whistler's signature
The Whistler on October 18, 2006 at 02:47 pm

He ignored his own statement about “legitimate terrorists”, and didn’t deal with my calling attention to it.  I say again, that destroys his whole argument if he considers there is any such thing as a “legitimate terrorist”; it just shows he doesn’t know what is going on in the world at this time.


If you don’t know by now, don’t mess with it.

robert108 on October 18, 2006 at 02:54 pm

DaveW,

In response to your:

United States citizens CAN be considered as “enemy combatants” as laid out in MCA.  Determining who is an enemy combatant is entirely up to the Combatant Status Review Tribunal (members “appointed” by the President).  For example, say you operate a blog and you link to or write about actions of Al-Qaeda, if you show any “material support for” (which is extremely vague… hence the vague example) this organization or many other “unnamed” organizations or groups, you could be considered an enemy combatant and you habeas corpus right is now gone.

Rubbish.  You have obviously not read the Acts in question.

Full response will follow as a posting on my user blog here.

Out Here
Rodney Graves


Out Here
Rodney G. Graves

Ceterum censeo Parthia esse delendam
Latin: “Furthermore, Parthia (Persia aka modern day Iran) should be destoyed”

Rodney Graves on October 18, 2006 at 03:13 pm

Either you read what I wrote above…

Crap… unfortunately I have to go.  I want to address the other issues brought up, especially what I was refering to with the legitimate terrorist comment.  Talk amongst yourself.  I hope to be back to respond and re-enter the discussion around midnight.

Or this WILL BE my only and last post at SAY ANYTHING.  Robert108, you’ve made a couple thousand comments on this site, is that because you don’t read any of the other comments?

AGAIN, I WILL ADDRESS THE OTHER COMMENTS WHEN I CAN, PROBABLY AROUND MIDNIGHT.  I have classwork to do and I hope you can appreciate that.

Dave W on October 18, 2006 at 03:15 pm

Robert108, you’ve made a couple thousand comments on this site, is that because you don’t read any of the other comments?

“You do it too!” That is definitely a lame excuse, but I’ll accept it, if accompanied by a note from your mother.


If you don’t know by now, don’t mess with it.

robert108 on October 18, 2006 at 03:20 pm

Dave, what about Adam Gadahn?

He wasn’t stripped of Habeas Corpus or labelled an enemy combatant.  He was indicted on treason charges.

What part of

(e)(1) No court, justice, or judge shall have jurisdiction to hear or consider an application for a writ of habeas corpus filed by or on behalf of an alien detained by the United States who has been determined by the United States to have been properly detained as an enemy combatant or is awaiting such determination.

isn’t sinking in?

What part of no court, justice, or judge don’t you understand.  US citizens ARE NOT ALIENS.  Ever. 

Ergo, [n]o court, justice, or judge shall have jurisdiction to hear or consider an application for a writ of habeas corpus filed by or on behalf of an alien detained by the United States who has been determined by the United States to have been properly detained as an enemy combatant or is awaiting such determination.

Still confused?


Fileitunder.com

Hoodlumman on October 18, 2006 at 05:46 pm

Or this WILL BE my only and last post at SAY ANYTHING.

Robert108,
Whatever you do, don’t read the part of his article he asked you to read.  I want to se if he’ll really go away.


"Although I can accept talking scarecrows, lions and great wizards in emerald cities, I find it hard to believe there is no paperwork involved when your house lands on a witch.”
- Dave James

Steve L. on October 19, 2006 at 06:07 am

Steve L.: I just asked what I thought was a good question, based on what he wrote.  I guess that made his head explode.  Oh, well.


If you don’t know by now, don’t mess with it.

robert108 on October 19, 2006 at 06:09 am

DaveW,

There are no legitimate terrorists.

None.

Terrorism is the act of deliberately making war on non-combatants.

Terrorism is thus a violation of the customary laws of warfare, and therefor all terrorists are war criminals.  In order to have legitimacy, they would have to coform to the customary laws of warfare, which by definition terrorists do not.

Terrorists are to civilization as wolves are: to be hunted down and exterminated when discovered.

Here endeth the lesson.

Out Here
Rodney Graves


Out Here
Rodney G. Graves

Ceterum censeo Parthia esse delendam
Latin: “Furthermore, Parthia (Persia aka modern day Iran) should be destoyed”

Rodney Graves on October 19, 2006 at 06:20 am

Rodney: I think you have just insulted the wolves.


If you don’t know by now, don’t mess with it.

robert108 on October 19, 2006 at 06:22 am

robert108,

You may be right.  Wolves, after all, are not splodedopes.  Nor even apologists for splodedopes.

Out Here
Rodney Graves


Out Here
Rodney G. Graves

Ceterum censeo Parthia esse delendam
Latin: “Furthermore, Parthia (Persia aka modern day Iran) should be destoyed”

Rodney Graves on October 19, 2006 at 06:26 am

An interesting piece in the [a href="http://www.opinionjournal.com/editorial/feature.html?id=110009113">Wall Street Journal[/a] on this:

Until the Supreme Court began trying to make war policy, the writ of habeas corpus had never been understood to benefit enemy prisoners in war. The U.S. held millions of POWs during World War II, with none permitted to use our civilian courts (except for a few cases of U.S. citizens captured fighting for the Axis). Even after hostilities ended, the justices turned away lawsuits by enemy prisoners seeking to challenge their detention. In Johnson v. Eisentrager, the court held that it would not hear habeas claims brought by alien enemy prisoners held outside the U.S., and refused to interpret the Geneva Conventions to give new rights in civilian court against the government. In the case of Gen. Tomoyuki Yamashita, the court refrained from reviewing the operations of military commissions.

Out Here
Rodney Graves


Out Here
Rodney G. Graves

Ceterum censeo Parthia esse delendam
Latin: “Furthermore, Parthia (Persia aka modern day Iran) should be destoyed”

Rodney Graves on October 19, 2006 at 06:58 am

Olbermaniacs didn’t care about anything Clinton did.

Not that that’s an excuse for Bush to do the same if it’s wrong.  However I don’t think he’s done that.


What’s going to happen to US industry when the global warming extremists like John McCain double the price of electricity?  I would think all these factories will close and set up in countries where they aren’t scared of technology.


The Whistler's signature
The Whistler on October 19, 2006 at 09:05 am

Rod, very good point! The SC, rightly, stood on the premise that non-US citizens were not accorded any rights by our Constitution. As for the Geneva Convention Accords, terrorists fall squarely under the designation Bandit/Brigand, and the only right afforded them is a swift execution, on the feild where they are taken. So, in ernest, we are in violation of the Geneva Conventions. And the remedy for that is immediate execution of all persons captured bearing arms while not in the uniform of a sovereign nation in a state of declared war against the United States at the time of their capture. It is the only legally proper course of action open to us.


Una Salus Victus Nullam Sperare Salutem

2Hotel9 on October 19, 2006 at 02:26 pm
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