Say Anything Blog

Mike, of course it’s possible to criticize the war without helping (intentionally or unintentionally) helping the terrorists, but who is doing that?

Not many.  Certainly not the Democrats, who are doing their level best to hand the terrorists a victory in Iraq.

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When the people fear their government, there is tyranny; when the government fears the people, there is liberty.

-- Thomas Jefferson

Rob’s recently listened-to songs:

Should we consider arming Saudi Arabia ‘helping the terrorists’ or what?

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Yun Chu said, “You must strictly not express in words what is very significant. Both dragon and snake are killed in one blow.”

Here’s some truth about the “threat” from Saudi Arabia:
(courtesy of Ace)

Saudis Capture 172 “Militants” Training To Use Airplanes To Attack Oilfields
—Ace

Oil fields? Maybe these guys will actually get punished. Old-school.

Police have arrested 172 militants who were plotting to attack Saudi Arabia’s oil fields, storm its prisons to free the inmates and use aircraft in their attacks, the Interior Ministry said in a statement Friday.

The militants planned to carry out suicide attacks against “public figures, oil facilities, refineries ... and military zones.” The statement said some of the military targets were outside the kingdom, but it did not elaborate.

Some of the militants were being trained to fly aircraft in their attacks, the statement added, raising the spectre of more attacks like Sept. 11, 2001 in which Al Qaeda terrorists hijacked passenger planes and flew them into buildings in New York and Washington.

These militants had been “sent to other countries to study flying in preparation for using them to carry out terrorist attacks inside the kingdom,” the statement said.

Apparently, the terrorists are trying to attack Saudi Arabia; what does that tell you?  BTW, I don’t expect an intelligent reply from you, Sparkie.

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Save America; boycott the MSM.

Dissatisfaction with the Iraqi War flows from the recognition that it was the wrong thing to do or from the recognition that it was the right thing to do but it was badly planned and/or executed.

Gotta disagree with you here, Mike.  The “dissatisfaction” with the Iraq War flows from the desire of the Dems to gain power in this country by constantly attacking the President.  They aren’t trying to aid in the fight against terrorism, they are just interested in short term political gain.
The so-called “debate” last night by the Dem Presidential candidates was really a circlejerk against the President(who isn’t running, btw).

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Save America; boycott the MSM.

r108
Expect another roundup sometime soon. Depends on how much Israel can make us balk in our relations with SA.  They are applying pressure and it just so happens to coincide with a roundup. How’s it feel to get played? Why not just sign on as a propagandist and get paid by the terrorists for your efforts?

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Yun Chu said, “You must strictly not express in words what is very significant. Both dragon and snake are killed in one blow.”

Sparkie: I didn’t expect an intelligent response from you, and you didn’t disappoint me.  Just more of your paranoid ramblings.  I notice you managed to work your antiIsrael hatred in there, too.  Typical.

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Save America; boycott the MSM.

I notice you managed to work your antiIsrael hatred in there, too.

Wrong. What did I say? Please, do explain.

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Yun Chu said, “You must strictly not express in words what is very significant. Both dragon and snake are killed in one blow.”

r108
make no mistake, by citing the roundup in that context you are playing right into the hands of fundamentalists. not very clever if you ask me.

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Yun Chu said, “You must strictly not express in words what is very significant. Both dragon and snake are killed in one blow.”

Just the facts, Sparkie.  You twist it any way you like; it’s what you do.

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Save America; boycott the MSM.

Don’t worry. You’re right. Saudi Arabia is on our side. They are totally against ‘deviant ideologies’. My ass they are.

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Yun Chu said, “You must strictly not express in words what is very significant. Both dragon and snake are killed in one blow.”

r108
Honestly, it says a lot to have you jocking anti-free trade, anti-human rights (of any sort), anti-Israel, pro-terrorism countries. Pitchfork?

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Yun Chu said, “You must strictly not express in words what is very significant. Both dragon and snake are killed in one blow.”

Sparkie: Only you could try to twist a news story into all manner of BS.  You are amazing in that respect.  “jocking”?  I cut and pasted a news story.  Get it?

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Save America; boycott the MSM.

r108
I stand by everything I said. You’ve been duped. The MSM probably only likes this story because it is pro-terrorism and anti-Israel.

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Yun Chu said, “You must strictly not express in words what is very significant. Both dragon and snake are killed in one blow.”

Could be a group of
democracy deviants.

Saudis Capture 172 “Militants”

Woof
Democracy is much more of a ‘deviant ideology’ in the eyes of the Saudis than al Qa’ida’s ideology which they teach and export as fast as they can at a great expense. People around here are only after the terrorists, defined as the people who commit the actual acts of terror. Who cares about the people who taught them that is the right thing to do, the people who create the minds that end up being suicide bombers - clearly the root of the problem… unless its someone other than Saudi Arabia (Lebanon, Palestine, et al)… despite the fact that Saudi Arabia is by far the most guilty in that niche. It strikes me that a ‘War on Terror’ would have some burden to counteract that type of ideology… instead of arming it. Rob can deride dems for being defeatists all he wants… it doesn’t disguise the fact that the current Republican admin is arming the terrorists, against the wishes of Israel. Don’t be confused. People who spread terrorist ideologies ARE TERRORISTS.

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Yun Chu said, “You must strictly not express in words what is very significant. Both dragon and snake are killed in one blow.”

Depends on how much Israel can make us balk in our relations with SA.  They are applying pressure and it just so happens to coincide with a roundup. How’s it feel to get played?

sparkie, do you read what you write?  If your above
quote is not an anti-Israel screed, what is it?

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You don’t have to be a moron to be a liberal Democrat but it sure helps.

r108...there is no shortage of Bush haters just as there is no shortage of Clinton haters or Reagan haters or Carter haters. I was really talking about honestly held opposition to the Iraqi war and not those who oppose anything that your President does. I’ll make that assumption clearer next time.

everyone...Al Qaeda wants to overthrow the Saudi regime as well as every other Arab regime that encourages or tolerates western ideals and influences. The Saudis have played slap and tickle with the terrorists in order to exempt their regime from Al Qaeda action but there’s no doubt about the contempt in which the House of Saud is held by the jihadists.

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"There are different kinds of truths for different kinds of people. There are truths appropriate for children; truths that are appropriate for students; truths that are appropriate for educated adults; and truths that are appropriate for highly educated adults, and the notion that there should be one set of truths available to everyone is a modern democratic fallacy. It doesn’t work.”

Irving Kristol

docdave
we are getting played by saudi arabia - this ‘roundup’ has very suspicious timing. how is that anti israel screed? saudi arabia feigns cooperation and says, ‘jihad’ and ‘kill jews’ out the other side of their mouth. that’s getting played. from their point of view, I think israel’s concerns are well founded. we have capitulated to them in the past. obviously they are going to speak to us about it. saudi arabia still hates us, to some extent, for giving israel arms in the israeli-egypt war when the saudis pressured us and we said we wouldn’t. saudi arabia, likewise, is probably concerned over the more recent israeli-lebanese war. they have lots of trigger/bomb happy scarey types camped out around the way. god knows what saudi nationals could do to israel or israel’s interests that would cause israel to strike back for real. they are clearly fed up.

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Yun Chu said, “You must strictly not express in words what is very significant. Both dragon and snake are killed in one blow.”

everyone...Al Qaeda wants to overthrow the Saudi regime as well as every other Arab regime that encourages or tolerates western ideals and influences. The Saudis have played slap and tickle with the terrorists in order to exempt their regime from Al Qaeda action but there’s no doubt about the contempt in which the House of Saud is held by the jihadists.

Pretty good analysis on this one, Mike.  Right after he invaded Kuwait, Saddam announced that he intended to go into Saudi next.  Fortunately, we stopped him, but his AQ buddies are obviously intent on finishing the job.
The fact that there are haters of all types is irrelevant to the present discussion.  It’s the Bush haters in the MSM and the Dem Party who are leading the present “discussion” about Iraq, and that is who I directed my comment to.

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Save America; boycott the MSM.

r108...the fact is relevant because the existence of Bush haters shouldn’t be viewed as extraordinary or particularly sinister, particularly when it comes to analysing why so many people oppose the war.

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"There are different kinds of truths for different kinds of people. There are truths appropriate for children; truths that are appropriate for students; truths that are appropriate for educated adults; and truths that are appropriate for highly educated adults, and the notion that there should be one set of truths available to everyone is a modern democratic fallacy. It doesn’t work.”

Irving Kristol

...the existence of Bush haters shouldn’t
be viewed as extraordinary or particularly sinister…

It is when they control the MSM and one of the major political parties in this country, and are engaged in a daily campaign of lies, half-truths and fabrications aimed at destroying both the President and this country.  Thought I made that clear.

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Save America; boycott the MSM.

I understand that it is clear in your mind. You know I’m not buying what you’re selling and I’m happy to move on.

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"There are different kinds of truths for different kinds of people. There are truths appropriate for children; truths that are appropriate for students; truths that are appropriate for educated adults; and truths that are appropriate for highly educated adults, and the notion that there should be one set of truths available to everyone is a modern democratic fallacy. It doesn’t work.”

Irving Kristol

R108 has a persecution complex.  When he was doing to Clinton it was a righteous cause when it is Bush, he is being persecuted.  We all get it now R108, the consummate Bush apologist.

Mike, thanks for posting the article.  It was very very interesting and the commentary from the higher ups will be most interesting.  It is good that this guy isn’t counting on any further promotions.

Princess P: It is very funny for a trade unionist to accuse anyone of having a “persecution complex”.  Very ironic, since trade unionism is based on a persecution complex.  The “poor workers” are being persecuted by the “evil capitalists”.  Pure Marxism.

Of course, I know your hatred caused you to miss it, but I favor the “go big” military approach.  You are pathetic.

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Save America; boycott the MSM.

BTW, I don’t think for a moment that you support “going big” in Iraq for a decisive victory, Mike.  The only reason you give this guy any credibility is that he is being critical of the administration.  I already know you want the “go home"(defeat) part of what he says.

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Save America; boycott the MSM.

r108

his AQ buddies

slip that in. the more the merrier. just keep saying it.

R108, the consummate Bush apologist.

exactly right. if bush pooed on his face, he would clear his mouth and begin bellowing excuses.

since trade unionism

...or maybe he would change the subject. r108 is an ethical black hole - a bigtime bush apologist. ‘increased spending isn’t bad - a dem didn’t do it’ or ‘saudi arabia are not fundamentalists’ or he just resorts to calling people antisemitic for no reason in an effort to deflect the argument. like Rob, docdave, and like fifteen others around here. it’s telling.

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Yun Chu said, “You must strictly not express in words what is very significant. Both dragon and snake are killed in one blow.”

Sparkie: Thanks for the concise summary of all your lies about me and others.  You simply argue for the sake of argument, and you don’t believe anything you write.  Need extra attention today?  Go look in a mirror, narcissist.

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Save America; boycott the MSM.

MikeA: Here’s my problem with you and the rest of the lefties when it comes to the problem of terrorism: you have no solutions, other than to ignore it or withdraw within our own borders and wait for them to come after us.  You are very free with your criticism of what the Bush administration has done in taking action against terrorism, but you suggest nothing to improve the situation.  You are eager to point out “mistakes"(as if any human endeavor is perfect), but you have no suggestions about how to do it better.
That is why I make what seems to be a broad generalization that lefties really just want to attack the President for political purposes; they have no strategy to fight terrorism, nor do they have any original, positive recommendations about how to make things better.  Instead, their message seems to be: “Give us total control, and everything will be just fine.” Forgive me if I don’t believe them.

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Save America; boycott the MSM.

kids are often purposefully antagonistic and seldom agree with what teachers tell them.

r108...while it’s true that I believed the Iraqi mission did little to confront the jihadist threat and thus opposed it, I also believe that if you’re going to take military action then you must bring as much to the table as you’re likely to need. I don’t have to support the mission to be able to say that the military force was inadequate for the task.

As for alternatives to invading Iraq, I’ve mentioned many but one that makes sense and seems to make many uncomfortable for some reason is to go after the sources of support for the terrorist organisations.

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"There are different kinds of truths for different kinds of people. There are truths appropriate for children; truths that are appropriate for students; truths that are appropriate for educated adults; and truths that are appropriate for highly educated adults, and the notion that there should be one set of truths available to everyone is a modern democratic fallacy. It doesn’t work.”

Irving Kristol

Or perhaps we could throw eggs at their Toyota trucks as they leave one of their safe houses.....

MikeAdamason: Your idea is no good, because it requires the cooperation of states that were doing big business with Iraq, even weapons business. The vast majority of the world had absolutely no financial interest in bringing down Saddam.

Next, no matter what we did other than invade, anything leaving Saddam and his insane sons in power would have been morally unacceptable. Saddam was a threat to the region and American interests, at least according to all the intelligence data, and when the decision was made to invade - nothing less than the deaths of Saddam and his sons would have been acceptable.

The problem is, this was the no win scenario for Bush and he could not escape it. I won’t bore you with the details, but no matter what Bush did or did not do, he would have been condemned and had a failed Presidency. Not that he has not managed the economy in a masterful way and done other good things, but Iran was a millstone about his neck and there was no possible scenario anyone could have created wherein Bush could have avoided what is happening now.

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No matter the age or state of health, for a military man it is always glorious to tilt at windmills, rescue a fair Dulcinea and be a gallant knight in armor in a glorious cause.

As for alternatives to invading Iraq, I’ve mentioned many but one that makes sense and seems to make many uncomfortable for some reason is to go
after the sources of support for the terrorist organisations.

I somewhat agree with you, Mike, except that going after their support is an adjunct to military action, not a substitute for it.  Actually, we were doing just that until the lefties at the NYT blew the whistle.

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Save America; boycott the MSM.