Say Anything Blog

This opinion article would have more merit if the NYT was truly impartial but they have been anti-war anti-Bush since the original invasion.  Now if the NYT would print the opposite view as some newspapers do, than one might be less concerned about the credibility of the authors assessment of the wars progress.

The Supreme Court is a bunch of black robed tyrants

So what are you saying?  That the article written by soldiers on the ground isn’t credible because the nytimes didn’t print the opposite point of view?  What about the merits of the opinion piece as it stands on its own merits from soldiers on the ground?Are you saying that unless you hear from soldiers on the other side that the article has no merit?  A very interesting take if that is your argument.

If you listen closely you can hear the argument for consistency and comittment to the Iraqi people.  You can hear the need for unrestricted access to the enemy wherever it hides.  You can hear the need for strong leadership to curb lawlessness.

The Iraqi government finds itself working at cross purposes with us on this issue because it is justifiably fearful that Sunni militias will turn on it should the Americans leave.

While we have the will and the resources to fight in this context, we are effectively hamstrung because realities on the ground require measures we will always refuse — namely, the widespread use of lethal and brutal force.

This should not be surprising, since a lasting political solution will not be possible while the military situation remains in constant flux.

Trying to please every party in the conflict — as we do now — will only ensure we are hated by all in the long run.

As an Iraqi man told us a few days ago with deep resignation, “We need security, not free food.”

The following clearly illustrates the reason the article and its logic is suspect and highly questionable:

In the end, we need to recognize that our presence may have released Iraqis from the grip of a tyrant, but that it has also robbed them of their self-respect.

Oh yeah, Iraqi’s had all kinds of self-respect when they were living under the tyrranical rule of Sadam watching their family members raped, torchered, gassed, and buried in mass graves.  That was much, much better than being concerned about the political will of Iraq’s liberator—namely the US, with special thanks to democrats—as bad as that may be.

What about the merits of the opinion piece as it stands on its own merits from soldiers on the ground?

How about its merits?  Am I to assume (as you apparently have) that the opinion of a few soldiers is representative of our entire military that numbers about 170,000 at this time?  Let’s see 6 divided by 170,000 equals a very small percentage.  As far as I’m concern this is only the opinion of a select few and means almost nothing in the total scope of the Iraqi operations.

The Supreme Court is a bunch of black robed tyrants

That the article written by soldiers on the ground isn’t credible because the nytimes didn’t print the opposite point of view?

The funny thing is that the only time the New York Times and people like Puzzle think the troops’ opinion is worth considering is when it lines up with their own.  You’re going to find diverse opinions in every large group of people.  I’ll bet there’s even a couple of Dennis Kucinich voters deployed to Iraq.

The Times article is interesting, but no more conclusive on Iraq than editorials that could be written by thousands of Iraq war vets who feel the mission needs to be completed.

But it’s a nice propaganda move by the Times.  Libs like Puzzled sure eat it up.

When the people fear their government, there is tyranny; when the government fears the people, there is liberty.

-- Thomas Jefferson

Rob’s recently listened-to songs:

The only time you think it is worthwhile to listen to the troops is when they are saying what you want to hear.  You have been a busy little beaver talking up the “success of the surge” every chance you get. 

I doubt that the Wall street Journal or the Washington Times would have published the op ed piece since it doesn’t fit with their frame of thinking.  It is interesting to note that you as well, Rob, eat up anything that comes from a soldier that supports your contention.

Pot meet kettle.

The only time you think it is worthwhile to listen to the troops is when they are saying what you want to hear.

Hey, I read the Times piece and I took note of the points they made.  I just don’t find them compelling, especially when most soldiers and military leaders tell a much different story.

But believe who you want, Puzzled.  Nobody has ever accused you of being intellectually honest.

When the people fear their government, there is tyranny; when the government fears the people, there is liberty.

-- Thomas Jefferson

Rob’s recently listened-to songs:

I’m not sure where you are getting the info from “most soldiers”. Care to share....

So, the gist of the piece is that the people of Iraq have to do the job, we can only do so much since we refuse to use overwhelming lethal force against all combatant groups. Yep. Have to agree with that.

Una Salus Victus Nullam Sperare Salutem

Rob Said: The funny thing is that the only time the New York Times and people like Puzzle think the troops’ opinion is worth considering is when it lines up with their own.  You’re going to find diverse opinions in every large group of people.  I’ll bet there’s even a couple of Dennis Kucinich voters deployed to Iraq.

I think that is a good point. It sounds like the article was written by a bunch of malcontents.

Check out:
Goon’s North Dakota Red Neck
Goon’s World

Of course Goon if a soldier happens to voice an opinion that is contrary to what you want then they are a bunch of malcontents.  Figures.

As Rob wrote there were some interesting points made in the article.  When is the Iraqi government going to stand up and do what needs to be done.  They must be liking their vacations while our soldiers get killed.  They have not settled one major piece of legislation that will make a difference in their citizens’ lives yet we are being asked to continually give our soldier’s lives.  Why doesn’t that require some response from you and the others on this blog. 

The constant droning of winning from you guys when winning requires that the Iraqi do some things for themselves.  When will that happen?  We are providing them with “breathing room” since you all believe the surge is working yet they are still on vacation with no action on their part.

The constant droning of winning from you guys when winning requires that the Iraqi do some things for themselves

I find your constant droning of losing a bit tiring and redundant.  To my knowledge you have never posted anything but negative comments about the war.  You may think you are only doing so because you want to present the other side but mostly you are just repetitively boring.

The Supreme Court is a bunch of black robed tyrants

Docdave, I seem to read that you talk incessantly about winning from our soldier’s side but are deafeningly silent when it comes to holding the Iraqi government accountable for what it is supposed to be doing.  Our soldiers are doing every thing they can but they simply cannot force the Iraqi government to do what it needs to do. 

The Iraqi government is on vacation while our soldiers are being killed and you conveniently ignore this while continuing with your incessant droning on and on about us winning when our winning is dependent on the Iraqi government getting off their dead asses and doing what needs to be done.  But why should they when they can keep playing games with each other knowing that we’re not going anywhere.  They will continue to jockey for positioning and are soldiers continue to get killed. Some plan you have there DD.

I’m not sure where you are getting the info from “most soldiers”. Care to share....

Mike McNamara, Grand Forks City Councilman, is one.  Brian Kalk, who may be running against Earl Pomeroy is another.

General Petraeus, the man appointed by the Democrat-led Congress, is another.  And then there’s the soldiers Michael Yon, Bill Roggio and Pat Dollard talk to on a regular basis.  Plus the myriads of soldiers who write op/ed pieces and write letters to the editor all over the country.

Iraq war vets who voice opinions about not finishing our mission in Iraq are the exception, not the rule. But you’re not honest enough to admit his.

When the people fear their government, there is tyranny; when the government fears the people, there is liberty.

-- Thomas Jefferson

Rob’s recently listened-to songs:

Rob, are we going to take a vote on this now?  You name some, I name some, who names the mosts wins.  You said ‘most soldiers’, I didn’t. And you’re not honest enough to admit it.

I notice you are all in a snit about the Iraqi Parliament not being in session, and yet not a woed about our Congress not being in session. Rather telling.

Una Salus Victus Nullam Sperare Salutem

Rob, are we going to take a vote on this now?  You name some, I name some, who names the mosts wins.  You said ‘most soldiers’, I didn’t. And you’re not honest enough to admit it.

Puzzled, just look at how excited you liberals get at one example of soldiers talking withdrawal.

One.

Soldiers supporting the war effort is an every day occurrence.  To any reasonable person it’s clear where most military types come down on this.  Just as it’s clear where most college professors and Hollywood actors come down on it.

Do we really need to go over this, or are you going to keep making yourself look silly?

When the people fear their government, there is tyranny; when the government fears the people, there is liberty.

-- Thomas Jefferson

Rob’s recently listened-to songs:

I’m more concerned that there are no Sunnis left in the government.

Guttermouth,our soldiers are not being killed because our congress is not in session. Big difference.  You seem to think it is OK that the Iraqis are on vacation.  Rather telling.

My goodness but it’s funny to see liberals moving the goal posts on Iraq.  As though any of them care about Iraq, or are capable of being honest about progress there.

When the people fear their government, there is tyranny; when the government fears the people, there is liberty.

-- Thomas Jefferson

Rob’s recently listened-to songs:

Rob, reducing your arguments to the “silly” response.  Very telling indeed.

Oh, puleese Rob,you are so desperate.  The issue is not that are soldiers aren’t doing all that they can.  You are willfully ignoring the other half of the equation here which is the Iraqi government.  They have not made one ounce of progress on major government issues,none zippo, nada.  Yet you continue to be under the illusion that our soldiers alone can have a “win”.  They have no control over what the Iraqi government does.

For the life of me I can’t figure out why you utterly are incapable of seeing that the Iraqi government has thus far refused to get their work done for their own citizens.  Yet we continue to be asked to give our soldier’s lives on a daily basis while the Iraqi government is on vacation.

My goodness but it’s funny to see liberals moving the goal posts on Iraq.  As though any of them care about Iraq, or are capable of being honest about progress there.

The stated goal of the surge was to provide security for a short period of time to allow political progress.  You argue that the security is being provided.  Where is the political progress?  It is clearly not the liberals moving the goal posts.

Progress is being made by the Iraqi government. And soldiers are dying because the Democrat controlled Congress is not getting anything done. Rather telling you do not hold your party, the Democrat Party, responsible for lying to you. They told you they would have our troops out as soon as they gained a majority. When is that happening?

Una Salus Victus Nullam Sperare Salutem

so the Oil agreement is done?  Or the dealing with deBaathification? Or getting essential services up and running?  Proof please guttermouth.

Nice try guttermouth.

Progress is being made by the Iraqi government

The Sunnis are boycotting the government.  What political progress is there?

I’m more concerned that there are no Sunnis left in the government.

Lestat: I doubt that you are really concerned, because it gives you yet another “Get the President” talking point, but if you are, why not invite them back?  They chose to leave, you know.  Are the Republicans responsible for their choice?  Huh?

"One must regard his leftist opponent as a parent regards his recalcitrant child. Don’t give an inch in a debate with a leftist, and you’ll soon frustrate him to the point that he falls back to his default position. He’ll gainsay your every point. He’ll even resort to calling you names and accusing you of having suspect parentage.”

I doubt that you are really concerned, because it gives you yet another “Get the President” talking point, but if you are, why not invite them back?

I only want to “Get the President” because of the incompetence of this administration.  Everything they do turns to shit.

Everything they do turns to shit.

That would be the agenda of the Dems/MSM; they want America to go down, so that they can grab power.  Sick.

"One must regard his leftist opponent as a parent regards his recalcitrant child. Don’t give an inch in a debate with a leftist, and you’ll soon frustrate him to the point that he falls back to his default position. He’ll gainsay your every point. He’ll even resort to calling you names and accusing you of having suspect parentage.”

Everything they do turns to shit.

So, I was right!  You are trying to twist the Sunnis’ choice of political action into a “Get the President” talking point.  Thanks for proving me right.

"One must regard his leftist opponent as a parent regards his recalcitrant child. Don’t give an inch in a debate with a leftist, and you’ll soon frustrate him to the point that he falls back to his default position. He’ll gainsay your every point. He’ll even resort to calling you names and accusing you of having suspect parentage.”

Progress

WASHINGTON, Aug 20 (Reuters) - More than half of top U.S. foreign policy experts oppose President George W. Bush’s troop increase as a strategy for stabilizing Baghdad, saying the plan has harmed U.S. national security, according to a new survey.

Ninety-one percent of those polled said the world has grown more dangerous for Americans and the United States, up 10 percent from February
From Reuters

“We have a dollar that’s adjusting and I am for a strong dollar.....
Our dollar doesn’t buy as many barrels of oil as it used to and so therefore it’s more expensive for the American people”..... Bush 3/12/08

So, I was right!  You are trying to twist the Sunnis’ choice of political action into a “Get the President” talking point.  Thanks for proving me right.

I don’t have to twist anything.  This administrations lack of understanding of the Iraqi political situation has caused them to make dumbass move after dumbass move.  Are we able to have short term military vicotories?  Sure, our military is more powerful.  Does this translate into long term diplomatic successes?  Only if we have competent political ledadership, which we have been lacking since the beginning of this war.

More than half of top U.S. foreign policy
experts…

Experts? By whose judgment?  How many of them are lefties?  Of course, if you have a consensus, it must be true, right?

"One must regard his leftist opponent as a parent regards his recalcitrant child. Don’t give an inch in a debate with a leftist, and you’ll soon frustrate him to the point that he falls back to his default position. He’ll gainsay your every point. He’ll even resort to calling you names and accusing you of having suspect parentage.”

Lestat: The Sunnis made a choice that surprises no one.  They are the minority in Iraq, and their area has almost no oil.  They should be getting a lot less than they are getting, because the President prevailed on the majority to give them some of the pie, when they deserved nothing after they lorded it over the majority during Saddam’s regime.  Your BDS has made you stupid.

"One must regard his leftist opponent as a parent regards his recalcitrant child. Don’t give an inch in a debate with a leftist, and you’ll soon frustrate him to the point that he falls back to his default position. He’ll gainsay your every point. He’ll even resort to calling you names and accusing you of having suspect parentage.”

Lestat, not everything turns to shit.

Northrop Grumman 15% growth compared to first quarter.
General Dynamics 19%
Lockheed Martin profits up 34%
Just a few that don’t mind his shit.

Congressional Budget Office found that the war in Iraq could cost US taxpayers over a trillion dollars when the long-term costs of caring for soldiers wounded in action, military and economic aid for the Iraqi government
Sure was worth it.

“We have a dollar that’s adjusting and I am for a strong dollar.....
Our dollar doesn’t buy as many barrels of oil as it used to and so therefore it’s more expensive for the American people”..... Bush 3/12/08

Lestat: You and the rest of the lefties have to blame anything and everything on the President, because you have nothing else.  I’m just waiting for RFK Jr or some other leftieloon to blame the President for Hurricane Dean.

"One must regard his leftist opponent as a parent regards his recalcitrant child. Don’t give an inch in a debate with a leftist, and you’ll soon frustrate him to the point that he falls back to his default position. He’ll gainsay your every point. He’ll even resort to calling you names and accusing you of having suspect parentage.”

MarkD: Those corporations(employers) made money by making useful stuff, and the union goons who infest the defense industry lined their pockets as well.  Why don’t you mention all the union bosses and workers who also benefited?  When you Marxist rail against big corps, I notice you never criticize he big abortion corporations, who make millions off of dead babies.  Nice!

"One must regard his leftist opponent as a parent regards his recalcitrant child. Don’t give an inch in a debate with a leftist, and you’ll soon frustrate him to the point that he falls back to his default position. He’ll gainsay your every point. He’ll even resort to calling you names and accusing you of having suspect parentage.”

r108,
How could anyone blame dubya for the mess in Iraq.
That’s crazy.

“We have a dollar that’s adjusting and I am for a strong dollar.....
Our dollar doesn’t buy as many barrels of oil as it used to and so therefore it’s more expensive for the American people”..... Bush 3/12/08

Everything they do turns to shit.

Yeah! like the economy… uh...oops, my mistake.  Like taking out the taliban… nope… ew, my bad.  Like, liberating Iraq from Saddam… well maybe if you think living with rape, gassings, torcher, mass graves, etc., etc. is better than living while Iraq is at the current political cross-roads. Okay, not everything, just everything the democrats can undermine and place blame for… and a few things the President is responsible for.

How could anyone blame dubya for the mess in Iraq.
That’s crazy.

Come on libs, take the challenge:

What have the dems done to make the US victorious in the war in Iraq?

What have the dems done to hasten US victory in Iraq?

What positive contribution have the dems made to US victory in Iraq?

HG, you silly goose
Smart people knew before we invaded that it would create a thousand bin ladens and true victory could never be had.

Removed the taliban?

“We have a dollar that’s adjusting and I am for a strong dollar.....
Our dollar doesn’t buy as many barrels of oil as it used to and so therefore it’s more expensive for the American people”..... Bush 3/12/08

HG, I missed the economy thing......lol.
Should ben lower interest rates to keep this economy built on credit from collapsing, or should dubya lower the tax rate?

“We have a dollar that’s adjusting and I am for a strong dollar.....
Our dollar doesn’t buy as many barrels of oil as it used to and so therefore it’s more expensive for the American people”..... Bush 3/12/08

Come on libs, take the challenge:
What have the dems done to make the US victorious in the war in Iraq?
What have the dems done to hasten US victory in Iraq?
What positive contribution have the dems made to US victory in Iraq?

The dems have suggested diplomacy with regional powers.  The dems have suggested partitioning the country.  The dems have suggested pulling back to and having an over the horizon force.  All of these are at least as good of options as what the current administration is doing.

Smart people knew before we invaded that it would create a thousand bin ladens and true victory could never be had.

Cowards… and liberals… often cry wolf.

A thousand bin ladens… jeesh.

The dems have suggested diplomacy with regional powers.

Only in the liberal mind does diplomacy, exclusive of force, equal victory in war time.

The dems have suggested partitioning the country.

The dems have suggested pulling back to and having an over the horizon force.

This is victory?  Pulling back is retreat.  It is to give up ground for which we fight or have already taken.

HG, I missed the economy thing......lol.

Not suprising, in fact most libs have—intentionally so.

This is victory?  Pulling back is retreat.  It is to give up ground for which we fight or have already taken.

Its clear you don’t understand insurgencies.  The people are the key, not the land.

Its clear you don’t understand insurgencies.  The people are the key, not the land.

I’m listening....

How could anyone blame dubya for the mess in Iraq.
That’s crazy.

That’s why they call it Bush Derangement Syndrome.

"One must regard his leftist opponent as a parent regards his recalcitrant child. Don’t give an inch in a debate with a leftist, and you’ll soon frustrate him to the point that he falls back to his default position. He’ll gainsay your every point. He’ll even resort to calling you names and accusing you of having suspect parentage.”

Yep, puzzledfuck, still not holding the Democrat Party responsible for their lies and duplicity. Very telling indeed.

Sunnis boycott the government, then they end their boycott, then they boycott, then they end their boycott, then they boycott, then they end their boycott,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,. Whose fault is it that Sunni leaders still expect to be the undisputed rulers of all the peons and serfs, taking all oil revenue for themselves, taking all electric production, all food, all medical supplies and services. Not going to happen. What is going to happen is the Sunnis being genocided and driven from Iraq. Why? Because they are too stupid to join in a democratically elected government. Oh fucking well, goodbye Sunnis. And good riddance.

And markie, spare us John Podesta’s bullshit. He sucked Willie Jeffs penis and now he is trying to suck Hillary’s penis. The Center for American Socialism is a pathetic collection of leftard morons. Ask yourself, why do none of those people have real jobs?

Una Salus Victus Nullam Sperare Salutem

HG, they have sent their sons and daughters and themselves to fight in Iraq, that’s a contribution.

Guttermouth, such high level discourse from you as usual.  Can’t argue without the language, wifey must be so proud.  Time to take up a collection for your new pig, I guess.

I am not arguing, stupid. I am heaping derision upon you.

Funny, you received the same talking points email as I did, and yet you are 3 days behind the curve in shitting on Gen Betrayus. Hope Hillary does not dock your pay.

Una Salus Victus Nullam Sperare Salutem

Docdave, I seem to read that you talk incessantly about winning from our soldier’s side but are deafeningly silent when it comes to holding the Iraqi government accountable for what it is supposed to be doing.

puzzlebrain, the above alleged qoute is an amazingly atupid attempt to create some kind of twisted negative equivalence i.e. you support the war effort so it’s okay for me to oppose it.  Additionally, I have no recollection of posting anything close to what you are saying I posted.  Unless you can provide a confirmation link, I will have to conclude that you are a liar that makes up things to support your demented views.

The Supreme Court is a bunch of black robed tyrants