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Thursday, August 07, 2008

FBI accused of hardball tactics in anthrax case

Here.

Former colleagues of Bruce Ivins, the man blamed for the 2001 anthrax attacks, accused federal agents Wednesday of hounding the government researcher and his family to the point where Ivins took his own life.

A source with knowledge of the case told CNN that federal agents searched Ivins’ home in Frederick, Maryland, and questioned his children. They offered Ivins’ 24-year-old son the $2.5 million reward for information about his father and showed his twin sister pictures of the anthrax victims, telling her, “Your father did this,” the source said.

Ivins’ former colleague, Jeffrey Adamovicz, said Ivins gave him a similar account of events.

“One of the statements that he relayed to me—that his children were, in fact, told by FBI agents that were doing the interview that their father was a murderer,” said Adamovicz. “And that I could tell greatly disturbed Bruce, as it would anybody.”

But federal agents, who presented evidence Wednesday they said implicates Ivins as the lone culprit, defended their tactics and denied harassing the family.

CNN’s source with knowledge of the investigation said Ivins was a recovering alcoholic whose concern over the investigation led him to resume drinking this year. And though FBI officials deny harassing Ivins or his family, another researcher who got caught up in the investigation—only to be exonerated—described having been subjected to similar tactics.

“My girlfriend’s home was also searched,” said Steven Hatfill in July 2002 after being declared a “person of interest” in the case.

“She was manhandled by the FBI upon their entry [and] not immediately shown the search warrant. Her apartment was wrecked while FBI agents screamed at her that I had killed five people and that her life would never be the same again. She was terrified by their conduct; put into isolation for interrogation for eight hours,” he said.

Federal officials did not respond to those claims, but they did settle with Hatfill two months ago for nearly $6 million.

In a written statement, Ivins’ attorneys dismissed Wednesday’s news conference in which a federal prosecutor declared Ivins the sole perpetrator.

“What the public demanded today was concrete evidence,” said lawyers Paul F. Kemp and Thomas M. DeGonia. “Instead, it was deluged with everything but ... The government’s press conference was an orchestrated dance of carefully worded statements, heaps of innuendo and a staggering lack of real evidence—all contorted to create the illusion of guilt by Dr. Ivins.”

They said hundreds of soldiers, scientists and family members showed up Wednesday to attend a memorial service for Ivins held at Fort Detrick.

“Dr. Ivins was characterized by his commanding officer for his ‘openness, sharing, humor and curiosity’ and was lauded for the central role he has played in the protection of the American soldier,” his lawyers said in their statement. “No one who attended that service could believe that Dr. Ivins committed any crime.”

Peter Hotez, chairman of microbiology at George Washington University, rejected the government’s contention that Ivins’ access to a sophisticated lab device called a lyophilizer—used to dry anthrax—was in any way damning.
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And Richard Spertzel, a former colleague of Ivins at Fort Detrick, said there was “no way” a lyophilizer could have created the fine anthrax spores used in the 2001 letters.

In addition, Spertzel said, no one working at a U.S. government lab could have produced such high quality anthrax in secret.

Comments

Pursuing a terrorist who murdered innocent people with anthrax, fucking right they should have used “hardball” tactics.


Una Salus Victus Nullam Sperare Salutem

2Hotel9 on August 7, 2008 at 07:12 am

2H9,

Amen!


“Poverty of goods is easily cured; poverty of the mind is irreparable.”

Bat One on August 7, 2008 at 07:14 am

When they used the same tactics on the wrong guy for a few years, for Ashcroft’s little witch hunt, it cost us all $6M. That’s how much the gov’t settled with him for. You paid for that, and me, and bat. What did they do? Repeat same tactics, different guy… even though they had just done it to the other guy and failed.

“What the public demanded today was concrete evidence,” said lawyers Paul F. Kemp and Thomas M. DeGonia. “Instead, it was deluged with everything but ... The government’s press conference was an orchestrated dance of carefully worded statements, heaps of innuendo and a staggering lack of real evidence—all contorted to create the illusion of guilt by Dr. Ivins.”

You guys are full of shit. You just take the sour milk the fed leaves out for you and run with it like trusting little socialist sheeples.

Is this some kind of side affect of ‘faith’?


Yun Chu said, “You must strictly not express in words what is very significant. Both dragon and snake are killed in one blow.”

Sparkie Arbuckle on August 7, 2008 at 08:17 am

Are you referring to the Seattle lawyer who is deeply involved with multiple terrorist finance operations?


Una Salus Victus Nullam Sperare Salutem

2Hotel9 on August 7, 2008 at 08:28 am

I refer to this:

another researcher who got caught up in the investigation—only to be exonerated—described having been subjected to similar tactics.

“My girlfriend’s home was also searched,” said Steven Hatfill in July 2002 after being declared a “person of interest” in the case.

“She was manhandled by the FBI upon their entry [and] not immediately shown the search warrant. Her apartment was wrecked while FBI agents screamed at her that I had killed five people and that her life would never be the same again. She was terrified by their conduct; put into isolation for interrogation for eight hours,” he said.

Federal officials did not respond to those claims, but they did settle with Hatfill two months ago for nearly $6 million.


Yun Chu said, “You must strictly not express in words what is very significant. Both dragon and snake are killed in one blow.”

Sparkie Arbuckle on August 7, 2008 at 08:39 am

Deduct it from the salaries of the officers involved. Lesson learned.


Una Salus Victus Nullam Sperare Salutem

2Hotel9 on August 7, 2008 at 08:43 am

fucking right they should have used “hardball” tactics

un huh. then you say.

Deduct it from the salaries of the officers involved. Lesson learned.

1600 rpms yet?

Yun Chu said, “You must strictly not express in words what is very significant. Both dragon and snake are killed in one blow.”

Sparkie Arbuckle on August 7, 2008 at 08:46 am

sparkless-arse-fuckin-buckle needs to come up for air…


Out Here
Rodney G. Graves

Ceterum censeo Parthia esse delendam
Latin: “Furthermore, Parthia (Persia aka modern day Iran) should be destroyed.”

Rodney Graves on August 7, 2008 at 08:55 am
Avatar for HG

Given the crime 6m is worth finding the actor.  I understand Sparkie’s point, but this was a sophisticated crime requiring sophisticated production with the potential to do a great amount of harm.  Given the circumstances, I say it was 6m well spent.  The tactics used may have been harsh, but they were not so horrible so as to be unwarranted in this case.

HG on August 7, 2008 at 09:03 am

6m is worth finding the actor

well, we didn’t yet. and the 6M was totally unrelated to finding the actor. it was related to assuming the first person that you have a hunch about is the culprit. bullshit. you know that and are obscuring reality.


Yun Chu said, “You must strictly not express in words what is very significant. Both dragon and snake are killed in one blow.”

Sparkie Arbuckle on August 7, 2008 at 10:00 am

HG
That’s tax money we are talking about.

You guys are nuts.


Yun Chu said, “You must strictly not express in words what is very significant. Both dragon and snake are killed in one blow.”

Sparkie Arbuckle on August 7, 2008 at 10:00 am

"accused”; I think that says it all about the substance of this post(or lack of same).


Save America; boycott the MSM.

robert108 on August 7, 2008 at 10:06 am
Avatar for HG

That’s tax money we are talking about.

Sparkie,

Flash!

Tax monies are intended first and foremost for national security.

HG on August 7, 2008 at 10:08 am
Avatar for HG

well, we didn’t yet.

How can you be so sure Sparkie?

HG on August 7, 2008 at 10:12 am
Avatar for HG

and the 6M was totally unrelated to finding the actor.

“Unrelated”?  Are you serious? Unless you are proposing that the feds weren’t investigating this anthrax case you are horribly mistaken.

HG on August 7, 2008 at 10:16 am
Avatar for HG

you know that and are obscuring reality

Sparkie,

You are loosing your fingerhold on reality my friend.

HG on August 7, 2008 at 10:19 am

HG
You are trying to tell me that we should spend 6M in tax money per person we rush to accuse for no apparent reason. It was a bullshit witch hunt and it cost 6M. You are fucking nuts. Investigating and harassing the wrong people impedes finding the right people. It is not for our security by any stretch of the imagination.

I will not engage that. Sorry. You are nuts.


Yun Chu said, “You must strictly not express in words what is very significant. Both dragon and snake are killed in one blow.”

Sparkie Arbuckle on August 7, 2008 at 10:28 am

You are trying to tell me that we should spend 6M in tax money per person we rush to accuse for no apparent reason.

Wrongful generalization.  It’s typical of Marxist thinking to demand perfection from others, though.


Save America; boycott the MSM.

robert108 on August 7, 2008 at 10:32 am
Avatar for HG

Sparkie,

It was one person in the course of an investigation of a sophisticated weapons-grade chemical agent that if in the wrong hands could have a tremendous and horrible consequence.  In light of the closely related dates of the WTC attack and this crime it is absolutely a national security issue.  That I have to explain this to you proves you’re the nutjob here.

HG on August 7, 2008 at 10:37 am

r108
when feds act improperly and it costs us 6M, it pisses me off.

you are fine with it. just like the good, big government fascist that you are.


Yun Chu said, “You must strictly not express in words what is very significant. Both dragon and snake are killed in one blow.”

Sparkie Arbuckle on August 7, 2008 at 10:37 am

HG
the harassment of that fellow carried on for years. urgency is bullshit apologetics. now we have one corpse and you’re happy?

go pay your taxes. hope they dont increase… cough cough.


Yun Chu said, “You must strictly not express in words what is very significant. Both dragon and snake are killed in one blow.”

Sparkie Arbuckle on August 7, 2008 at 10:40 am
Avatar for HG

now we have one corpse and you’re happy?

Happy that a guy committed suicide?  No.  Happy that the feds were pursuing the perp? Yes.  Convinced beyond all doubt we got the right guy? No.  Convinced beyond all doubt Ivan is innocent? No. 

Sparkie, should Ivan’s guilt become obvious to all, you will have to imagine a conspiracy to save face.  Rushing to judgment like you have in this case is just nuts.

HG on August 7, 2008 at 10:46 am

r108
when feds act improperly and it costs us 6M, it pisses me off. Your Marxist perfectionism is noted.  Since you are ignorant on this subject, I can tell you that high-level prosecutions are fraught with error, mostly due to both political correctness and political favoritism.  We got the right guy, which is what it’s all about.

you are fine with it. just like the good, big government fascist that you are. Another lie from you.

You claim to be so concerned with govt spending when it comes to catching criminals, but seem to care nothing for the massive spending on social entitlements, like the so-called “War on Poverty”.
You are a typical leftie hypocrite.
BTW, it’s “limited govt”, Sparkie; not “small” govt.  The govt needs to be large enough to serve the population, but it’s areas of influence are to be limited.  Get the difference?
Glad I could school you, once again.


Save America; boycott the MSM.

robert108 on August 7, 2008 at 10:46 am

You claim to be so concerned with govt spending when it comes to catching criminals, but seem to care nothing for the massive spending on social entitlements, like the so-called “War on Poverty”.

what? where did you pull that from?

Your Marxist perfectionism is noted.

That’s right! You’re a McCarthy fan. No wonder you dont have problems with wasting loads of money on PR related witchhunts.


Yun Chu said, “You must strictly not express in words what is very significant. Both dragon and snake are killed in one blow.”

Sparkie Arbuckle on August 7, 2008 at 11:07 am

"It was a bullshit witch hunt”

Are you actually trying to tell us that no one died from anthrax which was traced to Ivins’ workstation? Really?


Una Salus Victus Nullam Sperare Salutem

2Hotel9 on August 7, 2008 at 11:08 am

And, by the by, once the finger was placed on these two the anthrax laced letters stopped going out. 6 years without another one arriving in the hands of a completely innocent victim. Rationalize that away, please.


Una Salus Victus Nullam Sperare Salutem

2Hotel9 on August 7, 2008 at 11:10 am

Nice strawman hotel.

I am referring to the continued harassment of the wrong guy so that Ashcroft could look tough and so that the Patriot Act could look useful. It drags on for years, substantiated by nothing, and it cost us 6M.


Yun Chu said, “You must strictly not express in words what is very significant. Both dragon and snake are killed in one blow.”

Sparkie Arbuckle on August 7, 2008 at 11:11 am

You are trying to tell me that we should spend 6M in tax money per person we rush to accuse for no apparent reason. It was a bullshit witch hunt and it cost 6M. You are fucking nuts.

Sparkie,

The selectivity with which you conjure your self-righteous indignation is astonishing.

But that said, I wonder what it is in your insular background that qualifies you to judge the previous investigation as a “bullshit witch hunt” with “no apparent reason.” Are you privy to the notes and conclusions of the investigators, or the evidence that was collected?

If you know something significant, besides the fact that John Ashcroft is a devout Christian, why not share it with the rest of us instead of merely huffing and puffing with indignation?


“Poverty of goods is easily cured; poverty of the mind is irreparable.”

Bat One on August 7, 2008 at 11:12 am

Hotel.

once the finger was placed on these two the anthrax laced letters stopped going out

I don’t bother with innuendo. Ivins may have done it. Supposedly he voted straight democrat tickets. Now all these super right wing motives are being ascribed to him. I wonder who really did it.


Yun Chu said, “You must strictly not express in words what is very significant. Both dragon and snake are killed in one blow.”

Sparkie Arbuckle on August 7, 2008 at 11:13 am

The selectivity with which you conjure your self-righteous indignation is astonishing.

Same for you. Don’t act like your shit doesn’t stink Mr. Prettyboy.


Yun Chu said, “You must strictly not express in words what is very significant. Both dragon and snake are killed in one blow.”

Sparkie Arbuckle on August 7, 2008 at 11:15 am

Ivins may have done it. Supposedly he voted straight democrat tickets. Now all these super right wing motives are being ascribed to him. I wonder who really did it.

Must have been the Israelis, huh?


“Poverty of goods is easily cured; poverty of the mind is irreparable.”

Bat One on August 7, 2008 at 11:20 am
Avatar for HG

well, we didn’t [find the actor] yet.

Ivins may have done it.

Progress.
Sparkie, there may be hope for you yet.

Rest assured gentlemen, our efforts were not in vain.

HG on August 7, 2008 at 11:29 am

spark, fact. Anthrax stopped arriving in the mail when the finger was placed upon these two. Fact, the anthrax in these attacks came from Ivins’ workstation.

Please to point out the “innuendo”.


Una Salus Victus Nullam Sperare Salutem

2Hotel9 on August 7, 2008 at 11:35 am

McCarthy was right, moron; there were commies in the State Dept.  Duh.


Save America; boycott the MSM.

robert108 on August 7, 2008 at 11:37 am

McCarthy was right, moron; there were commies in the State Dept.  Duh.

Absolutely true, still are!


No matter the age or state of health, for a military man it is always glorious to tilt at windmills, rescue a fair Dulcinea and be a gallant knight in armor in a glorious cause.

Neiman on August 7, 2008 at 11:43 am

2H9,

It’s looking as if Ivins tried to implicate Hatfield.  He’s also suspected of being the source for several news stories early in the investigation.

The FBI and DoJ settled with Hatfield largely to clear the way for prosecution of another suspect (Ivins, it seems), as failing to do so would have been handing the defense reasonable doubt on a platter.


Out Here
Rodney G. Graves

Ceterum censeo Parthia esse delendam
Latin: “Furthermore, Parthia (Persia aka modern day Iran) should be destroyed.”

Rodney Graves on August 7, 2008 at 01:44 pm

Well put, giving a lawyer anything is like inviting a vampire into your house.


Una Salus Victus Nullam Sperare Salutem

2Hotel9 on August 7, 2008 at 06:58 pm
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