Say Anything Blog

Do they want to take over the world and force it to worship in their way?  Does their scripture urge them to “kill all the infidels”?  Do they strap bombs onto children and send them out to kill people?  Do they shoot women in the head in a soccer stadium? If the answer to any of those questions is no, then your attempt at equivalence has failed.

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Do they shoot women in the head in a soccer stadium?

If the ultra-orthodox of ANY religion ran their own country, they’d be liable to do something like that. Except the buddhists. They’d hit her with a board.

This article must be an error, nalhamid. R108, Hotel, Docdave, and the lot all assert that Islam is the only religion that makes people stupid and leads them to do stupid things. I maintain that all religions have that capacity inherent in them because of their general stupid-making-ness. Your religion not exempted, no matter who you are or where you’re from. They all urge stupidity. All can be employed to good and bad ends.

If you refrain from blowing someone up or blow someone up because of some guy in the clouds, that’s stupid. Morality is grounded in one’s interaction with other human beings, not some dictures from the clouds handed down in some faiery tale. The fact that this society is full of people who behave because they are afraid of God scares the shit out of me. Anything is liable to happen when you look into the clouds, to a world of abstraction and otherness, for your meaning or for your morality. Get it here.

I maintain that all religions have that capacity inherent in them because of their general stupid-making-ness.

Would that include the religion of humanism in your opinion? 

So rather than derive morals for society from natural law (which has given us Americans the greatest nation and personal freedom the world has ever known), we should look to ourselves and derive morality from our experiences?  And, when not all agree on the relative morality of the elite or powerful then we will force it upon them?

The fact that this society is full of
people who behave because they are afraid of God scares the shit out of me.

Rather than refute all of your ignorant statements in this screed, I’ll just correct you on this one: Contrary to your belief, Christians don’t follow God’s teachings out of fear; they do it out of love and respect.  I know you fear-based lefties are incapable of understanding that, but there it is.

The fact is that only the Islamic extremists are doing the violent things just doesn’t seem to penetrate your wall of hateful ignorance about religion.  Facts are facts, no matter what you may speculate.  The fact is that Western society was, at one time, under the control of religion, and we have evolved away from that.  We use real morality(the kind that comes from God’s Teachings) as the basis for what we aspire to.  Unlike situational morality and ethics, God’s Teachings don’t change.
If you want to know about “secular morality” check out the article about the school that tried to get young kids to do cross-dressing. It’s in the Reader Blogs. The parents used the unchanging real morality of God’s Teachings to stop the school from doing that.  For some odd reason, the school administrators, founded in their secular “morality” didn’t think there was anything wrong with making little kids dress up as the opposite sex.  Weird.

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Would that include the religion of humanism in your opinion?

I don’t know, what the eff is the religion of humanism. c.f. Francis Bacon’s ‘Idols’ and their corrupting influence. Something like that is what I had in mind.

r108

The fact is that only the Islamic extremists are doing the violent things just doesn’t seem to penetrate your wall of hateful ignorance about religion.

Did you not read the article? I think the trouble is being had trying to penetrate your head jackass.

Sparkie: I was referring to the list of atrocities the Islamic extremists have committed, and are committing right now, which I previously gave.  Try to keep up.  A foul mouth isn’t the way to win an argument; you have to have facts/logic on your side, something you conspicuously lack in almost every case.

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Sparkie

Humanism - the broad category of ethical disciplines that affirm the worth of all people. based n the ability to determine right and wrong by appeal to universal human qualities - particularly rationality.

Since as we see in this world there are few universal human qualities that leaves rationality.  If you leave your determination of right and wrong to rationality then it is an easy step to anything you can rationalize goes.  Hitle, Stalin, Moa all had a rational for their actions.  the three of them are the biggest murders in the history of the human race.

And it that had happened in an islamic country likely no one at the NYT or any other publication would know of it.  So NO it would not be “hidden” in the back pages.  It would go completely unremarked upon.

We get some guy on TV in an islamic country talking about how to beat your wife properly, and that barely got a mention.

Humanism - the broad category of ethical disciplines that affirm the worth of all people.

i asked what the “religion of humanism” is. where are the churches? it seems if they affirm the worth of all people, it ain’t far from Christianity or Islam (not as practiced by idiots), save all the unbelievable bullshit.

Hitle, Stalin, Moa all had a rational for their actions.

you are equivocating. rationality and “having a rationale” are distinct. assume a three fingered man comes to me and explains that if I believe that George Washington was a three fingered alien, then he will give me all the secrets of physics (including the answers to the quantum issues). while I may have a “rationale” for believing George Washington was an alien, it clearly is not a rational thing to believe. picking up on the nuance that is leading to your equivocation yet? sensing a hint of pascal’s wager in my example. yea, i prefer the aliens because they drive home just how fucking stupid pascal’s wager really is.

some guy on TV in an islamic country talking about how to beat your wife properly

stateside they don’t put it on TV, but i bet if you look into the rate of spousal abuse among members of the armed forces, it is either on par with the worst islamic country you can find… or it outstrips it. one of my friends formerly worked for BUDS (navy seals training) out in San Diego. He reported that, in the building he lived in, if their was a male and a female cohabitating, the rate of abuse was in the order of 80% of those cases. What can we glean from this? THe military hates fags and beats girls. Sounds like al Qaeda to me. Insecure, douchebags who assert themselves over weaker beings for fear that their insecurity may become apparent.
Explain why its ok for our armed forces to abuse their wives at absurd rates while its bad for Islamic people to do so. Can’t be done. We are wrong too, we just don’t put it in the news. We pretend like we are better than that.

Sparkie: Two things you got wrong.  One, spousal abuse isn’t all about beatings in this country; the angry feminists have succeeded in getting almost anything classified as abuse, including raising your voice and so-called “emotional abuse"(where he refuses to talk to her about her day, for instance).  Two, in Islamic countries, real spousal abuse(the physical stuff) is codified in the religion, which is not the case with Christianity.  Of course you humanists can always justify anything, based on your shifting ethics, so who knows about you?

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r108
so let me get this striaght. if spousal abuse is codified by a religion, its occurance is worse than spousal abuse not codified by a religion? that is the dumbest thing I have ever heard. spousal abuse is horrible, no matter what. furthermore, the figure I gave you is not some published figure based on ‘verbal’ abuse (which you seem to think is fine)… it is a first person account from someone who lived in an apt building full of GIs beating their wives. he heard the altercations and the sounds of physical abuse and saw the black eyes. in the hallways, in the elevator, and from the lips of his fellow GIs. in his apt, the people above, below, and on both sides of him ALL BEAT THEIR WIVES/GIRLFRIENDS without exception. of course, this is fine since there is no religion telling them its ok. /sarcasm

Your shit-full-ed-ness amazes me daily. you have laid bare your misogyny here for us. go beat your own wife without instruction from a religion, but don’t expect others to pick up on its redeeming qualities. you out yourself better than I ever could in a thread.

so let me get this striaght. if spousal abuse is codified by a religion, its occurance is worse than spousal abuse not codified by a religion?

Of course, I said nothing of the kind.  To repeat for you, there is no parallel, despite your anecdotal information from one source, between the two religions.  Every time you try to make that equivalence, you get refuted, but you keep trying to do it anyway.  You are just another America-hating ignorant fool.
I wish you had the ability to think logically; it might be fun to engage you in that case, but I see I spend most of my time correcting your faulty assumptions.  Boring.

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