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Thursday, May 24, 2007

Exploding The Ethanol Myths - John Stossel

I think that almost everyone is familar with the honest reporting of John Stossel.  In The Many Myths of Ethanol, Stossel weighs in on the ethanol debate.  Most of this is old news for many but deserves repeating as Stossel lumps the entire ethanol points in a single document.  John writes;

No doubt about it, if there were a Miss Energy Pageant, Miss Ethanol would win hands down. Everyone loves ethanol.

When everyone in politics jumps on a bandwagon like ethanol, I start to wonder if there’s something wrong with it. And there is. Except for that fact that ethanol comes from corn, nothing you’re told about it is true. As the Cato Institute’s energy expert Jerry Taylor said on a recent “Myths” edition of “20/20,” the case for ethanol is based on a baker’s dozen myths.

Stossel’s summary of the myths follows:

A simple question first. If ethanol’s so good, why does it need government subsidies? Shouldn’t producers be eager to make it, knowing that thrilled consumers will reward them with profits?

But consumers won’t reward them, because without subsidies, ethanol would cost much more than gasoline.

The claim that using ethanol will save energy is another myth. Studies show that the amount of energy ethanol produces and the amount needed to make it are roughly the same. “It takes a lot of fossil fuels to make the fertilizer, to run the tractor, to build the silo, to get that corn to a processing plant, to run the processing plant,” Taylor says.

And because ethanol degrades, it can’t be moved in pipelines the way that gasoline is. So many more big, polluting trucks will be needed to haul it.

More bad news: The increased push for ethanol has already led to a sharp increase in corn growing—which means much more land must be plowed. That means much more fertilizer, more water used on farms and more pesticides.

This makes ethanol the “solution”?

But won’t it at least get us unhooked from Middle East oil? Wouldn’t that be worth the other costs? Another myth. A University of Minnesota study shows that even turning all of America’s corn into ethanol would meet only 12 percent of our gasoline demand. As Taylor told an energy conference last March, “For corn ethanol to completely displace gasoline consumption in this country, we would need to appropriate all cropland in the United States, turn it completely over to corn-ethanol production, and then find 20 percent more land on top of that for cultivation.”

OK, but it will cut down on air pollution, right? Wrong again. Studies indicate that the standard mixture of 90 percent ethanol and 10 percent gasoline pollutes worse than gasoline.

Well, then, the ethanol champs must be right when they say it will reduce greenhouse gases and reverse global warming.

Nope. “Virtually all studies show that the greenhouse gases associated with ethanol are about the same as those associated with conventional gasoline once we examine the entire life cycle of the two fuels,” Taylor says.

With all these negatives, is ethanol good for something?  Yes, Stossle writes:

Surely, ethanol must be good for something. And here we finally have a fact. It is good for corn farmers and processors of ethanol, such as Archer Daniels Midland, the big food processor known for its savvy at getting subsidies out of the taxpayers.

And it’s good for vote-hungry presidential hopefuls. Iowa is a key state in the presidential-nomination sweepstakes, and we all know what they grow in Iowa. Sen. Clinton voted against ethanol 17 times until she started running for president. Coincidence?

“It’s no mystery that people who want to be president support the corn ethanol program,” Taylor says. “If you’re not willing to sacrifice children to the corn god, you will not get out of the Iowa primary with more than one percent of the vote, Right now the closest thing we have to a state religion in the United States isn’t Christianity. It’s corn.”

Comments

another myth. Studies show that the amount of energy ethanol produces and the amount needed to make it are roughly the same. “It takes a lot of fossil fuels to make the fertilizer, to run the tractor, to build the silo, to get that corn to a processing plant, to run the processing plant,” Taylor says.

This has been debunked numerous times.

The net energy gain for corn-based ethanol is about 30%

The CO2 argument is a strawman argument by the way.  Ethanol fuels on average reduce CO, hydrocarbons and particulates, but are about the same with respect to CO2.  That point has never been disputed.

Carrick on May 24, 2007 at 04:13 pm

The CO2 argument is a strawman argument by the way.

It’s not a “strawman” for the global warming crowd; they insist that human produced CO2 is the “Great Satan”.  So, the fact that ethanol doesn’t reduce CO2 is an important part of the debunking of the ethanol hustle that is draining our tax dollars.


Save America; boycott the MSM.

robert108 on May 24, 2007 at 08:59 pm

What kind of argument is this?  While it’s important to note that ethanol doesn’t reduce CO2 levels, that claim isn’t generally one made by the pro-ethanol crowd. 

That makes it a strawman that it is an “ethanol myth”, since it never was generally accepted as true…

Why is it OK to lie, as long as you are opposing ethanol as a fuel alternative?  Inquiring minds want to know.

Carrick on May 25, 2007 at 04:55 am

That makes it a strawman that it is an “ethanol myth”, since it never was generally accepted as true…

Cutting down on “greenhouse emissions” is one of the elements of the pro-ethanol propaganda, in my experience.  It’s being sold to us as a cureall, and it isn’t.  I don’t think Stossel is lying at all, nor are the others who seek to counter the propaganda assault on the behalf of the ethanol lobby.  I have personal experience that ethanol is an inferior motor fuel, and so am not convinced that it is beneficial in any way to the American public, especially since we are being forced to financially support it.  If it’s so great, why isn’t it competing on a level playing field?


Save America; boycott the MSM.

robert108 on May 25, 2007 at 07:07 am

Carrick, so y9u don’t agree that the energy loss ia roughly equivalent to the ethanol energy gain.  Please provide a link(s) to your rebuttal.  How about Stossels other points which you didn’t comment on?  Agree or disagree?


You don’t have to be a moron to be a liberal Democrat but it sure helps.

docdave on May 25, 2007 at 12:50 pm

Robert108:

If it’s so great, why isn’t it competing on a level playing field?

Because corn-based ethanol makes no sense economically.

Carrick on May 25, 2007 at 06:16 pm

Because corn-based ethanol makes no sense
economically.

Essentially what I’ve been saying all along.  It may look great in the lab, but in the real world, the cost/benefit doesn’t work out at all.


Save America; boycott the MSM.

robert108 on May 25, 2007 at 06:21 pm

DocDave, here’s a link. He doesn’t provide links to most of his claims so it’s hard to respond.

I’m pretty skeptical about corn-based ethanol as a long-term alternative, but much less so for ethanol itself.  It would require a technology breakthrough for the US to be able to produce its own, but I think sugar-based ethanol is probably more practicable.

Truthfully guys, I am a big critic of farm subsidies in general.  They basically make it economical for big industry-run farms to operate producing just one crop, and makes sustainable agriculture economically nonviable.

What a completely retarded idea.  Must of been one of Jimmy Carter’s initiatives.

Carrick on May 25, 2007 at 06:27 pm

Well, to be accurate Robert108, it will require higher gas prices than we currently have or will have in the near future, for corn-based ethanol to be competitive.  Even then, it won’t be able to meet our needs, and almost certainly will drive the price of beef through the roof.

Carrick on May 25, 2007 at 06:33 pm

almost certainly will drive the price of beef through the roof

What do you mean “almost”? I’ve already cut back on buying beef. Mostly because it costs way too much money.

Samantha on May 25, 2007 at 07:32 pm

Beef is plenty high.  I can’t say I know how much ethanol from corn is affecting it though…

Carrick on May 25, 2007 at 07:45 pm

What’s needed is a level-headed discussion of the real problems that corn-based ethanol poses, without diverting into gotcha-styled arguments. 

What we can say clearly is that corn-kernel-based ethanol is a doomed experiment.  And we can say this to be true regardless of whether at $6/gallon (as an example) corn-based ethanol becomes economically completive with gasoline. Same goes with whether it could ever get the same mpg.  Or whether it even returns more energy than is spent making it.

The fatal flaw is that you simply can’t make enough ethanol from corn kernels to meet our transportation energy needs.  Period.  End of story.

That’s the point that needs to get drilled into people’s heads.  The rest is just fluff.

That doesn’t mean that ethanol from sugar (grown in tropical regions) wouldn’t be viable.  I would suspect it would, as an import crop.  And as Rob and I have both pointed out, it would be one hell of a better way to spend our $20 billion or so in foreign development dollars than just flushing them down the toilet like we are right now.

And in the future, it may turn out that ethanol from corn stover could be a viable technology.  That’d be great if so, because it would be an indefinite source of energy, not one that is getting depleted and harder to refine every year.

Carrick on May 25, 2007 at 08:00 pm

Rob and I have both pointed out, it would be one hell of a better way to spend our $20 billion or so in foreign development dollars than just flushing them down the toilet like we are right now.

Of course, I question the spending of any “foreign development dollars” at all.  I think we should buy things from foreign countries that we need.  Since the death of the Soviet Union, it’s time to scrap the idea(which was never good in the first place, IMO) of “buying” allies with foreign aid.


Save America; boycott the MSM.

robert108 on May 25, 2007 at 08:14 pm
Rob
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I’m with you there, Robert.

If we could just get these politicians foreign and domestic to quit with the protectionism and just let the market work it’d do a lot more good for the “third world” than any of our foreign aid does.


When the people fear their government, there is tyranny; when the government fears the people, there is liberty.

-- Thomas Jefferson

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Rob on May 25, 2007 at 09:09 pm
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