Say Anything Blog

I read about this earlier.  I was a bit taken aback by the fact that Hillary Clinton, Ted Kennedy, etc. were in it praising Goldwater.  As though they wouldn’t be bashing him as a poor-people-hating conservative today.

As for abortion, Goldwater was pretty mixed.  Early in his life he was strongly pro-life.  Later, he was strongly pro-abortion.  His wife was a big-wig in Planned Parenthood in AZ, so that was undoubtedly an influence.  Regardless, nobody is perfect.  Goldwater is still a great man, stance on abortion aside.

He was downright prescient about the religious right, though.  If there is any demographic within the GOP that has pushed it away from conservatism is is the religious right with their incessant demand for legislation against drinking, gambling, etc.

When the people fear their government, there is tyranny; when the government fears the people, there is liberty.

-- Thomas Jefferson

Rob’s recently listened-to songs:

Ted Kennedy didn’t so much praise him.  Hillary Clinton is another story altogether.  Hillary Clinton campaigned for Barry Goldwater.  She was even a “Goldwater Girl”.  She was a cheerleader of sorts in a cowgirl/cheerleader outfit.

"All the perplexities, confusion and distress in America arise not from defects in their Constitution or Confederation, nor from want of honor or virtue, so much as downright ignorance of the nature of coin, credit and circulation.”
- John Adams

ugh…

When the people fear their government, there is tyranny; when the government fears the people, there is liberty.

-- Thomas Jefferson

Rob’s recently listened-to songs:

Yep, got to break out the brain Comet after that discription of Billary. Ugh! Indeed!

Una Salus Victus Nullam Sperare Salutem

As for Goldwater, he did have a mixed record on several issues, especially towards the end of his career. He was vastly unpopular among social leftists and nannystaters.

Una Salus Victus Nullam Sperare Salutem

He was downright prescient about the religious right, though.  If there is any demographic within the GOP that has pushed it away from conservatism is is the religious right with their incessant demand for legislation against drinking, gambling, etc.

some of his sort-of prophecies and pronostications in this regard that seem to be coming into fruition, ..

Goldwater:

.Mark my word, if and when these preachers get control of the [Republican] party, and they’re sure trying to do so, it’s going to be a terrible damn problem. Frankly, these people frighten me. Politics and governing demand compromise. But these Christians believe they are acting in the name of God, so they can’t and won’t compromise. I know, I’ve tried to deal with them.

.Those who seek absolute power, even though they seek it to do what they regard as good, are simply demanding the right to enforce their own version of heaven on earth. And let me remind you, they are the very ones who always create the most hellish tyrannies. Absolute power does corrupt, and those who seek it must be suspect and must be opposed. Their mistaken course stems from false notions of equality, ladies and gentlemen. Equality, rightly understood, as our founding fathers understood it, leads to liberty and to the emancipation of creative differences. Wrongly understood, as it has been so tragically in our time, it leads first to conformity and then to despotism.

.However, on religious issues there can be little or no compromise. There is no position on which people are so immovable as their religious beliefs. There is no more powerful ally one can claim in a debate than Jesus Christ, or God, or Allah, or whatever one calls this supreme being. But like any powerful weapon, the use of God’s name on one’s behalf should be used sparingly. The religious factions that are growing throughout our land are not using their religious clout with wisdom. They are trying to force government leaders into following their position 100 percent. If you disagree with these religious groups on a particular moral issue, they complain, they threaten you with a loss of money or votes or both. I’m frankly sick and tired of the political preachers across this country telling me as a citizen that if I want to be a moral person, I must believe in ‘A,’ ‘B,’ ‘C,’ and ‘D.’ Just who do they think they are? And from where do they presume to claim the right to dictate their moral beliefs to me? And I am even more angry as a legislator who must endure the threats of every religious group who thinks it has some God-granted right to control my vote on every roll call in the Senate. I am warning them today: I will fight them every step of the way if they try to dictate their moral convictions to all Americans in the name of ‘conservatism.’

He also recommended:

I think every good Christian ought to kick Falwell’s ass.

When you say “radical right” today, I think of these moneymaking ventures by fellows like Pat Robertson and others who are trying to take the Republican Party away from the Republican Party, and make a religious organization out of it. If that ever happens, kiss politics goodbye.

..we must never allow that to happen.

here’s a very witty one..:

A liberal is a man too broadminded to take his own side in a quarrel.

..which reminds me this Karl Rove classic the Washington Post printed recently:

“You need to have the ability to try these people without worrying about the ACLU showing up saying, ‘Wait a minute, did you Mirandize them when you found them on the battlefield,’ “

I voted for Goldwater in 1964.  He was a real Conservative then, but obviously suffered from mental breakdown in his later life.  How sad.  Everyone makes mistakes, if they live long enough, I guess.

John McCain is bad for America.

Robert:
The man changed his mind on some issues.  Saying he had a mental breakdown because you don’t agree with the positions he took does a disservice to him.

gregdn: That’s my evaluation; sorry you didn’t like it.  He didn’t agree with the positions he took later in life.  I don’t know whether he “changed his mind” or his mind changed, and strongly suspect the latter.  It is never a disservice to tell the truth, merely unpleasant to those who can’t accept it.

John McCain is bad for America.

He didn’t agree with the positions he took later in life.

I think one would need access to Goldwater’s mind to say that. I think is just not true which is why this:

It is never a disservice to tell the truth, merely unpleasant to those who can’t accept it.

Is self-aggrandizing bullshit.

Just because Goldwater got smart and realized that moral parenting laws are inherently anti-conservative doesn’t mean he lost his mind.
A true conservative is out to put the citizen’s control over his own life and laws within his grasp in a real, localized manner. The idea of a powerful federal gov’t spewing out religiously motovated nit-picking laws is inherently NOT CONSERVATIVE. No question. More and more conservatives have lost their mind it seems.
Also - I don’t think Goldwater was fervently pro-abortion in a ‘let’s go out and eat our young’ manner, I think he probably realized that on a state level some people were pro-choice. If the laws are occuring on a level where Goldwater sees them as just and appropriately applied (i.e. not being shoved down people’s throats on a federal level) then I think he is more sympathetic to respecting the people within said states’ democratic wishes than he is sympathetic to anti-abortion fed laws.

When I want to know what a “true conservative” should believe, I won’t ask the likes of you.
IMO, Goldwater got senile.  He was treated unfairly and unjustly by the media in his Presidential campaign, as was proved by the fact that his opponent, who ran as the “Peace Candidate”, immediately escalated the Vietnam War upon taking office.  That would drive anyone crazy.

John McCain is bad for America.

I don’t think Goldwater is the only one that got senile.

You speak only for yourself.

John McCain is bad for America.

I do speak for myself - about you. Its not my fault you have mistaken a social and slightly economical version of conservativism for real political conservatism…
And you think you are a remote psychologist for politicians of yesteryear… and you think whatever you say is the truth.
God doesn’t like that amount of chauvinistic judgment. Leave all judgements unto him right robert108?

You think you are a “remote psychologist” for me.  You have no credibility to speak for anyone’s mental state but your own, and I take you at your word.
You claim to speak for God? That is a definite sign of senility.  Good luck.

John McCain is bad for America.