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Wednesday, May 23, 2007

“BORN IN THE…USA!!!”

If you’re about the same age as I am, give or take a decade, then you remember Bruce Springfield strutting around the stage, wearing a flagged bandana on his sweating curls, leading the audience in the chorus with his raspy, synergistic wailing: “Born in the…USA...Born in the…USA!!!”

I confess to not remembering the rest of the song, or why it was so popular.  I could tell you all about Bob Dylan’s lyrics, and his era of singer songwriters, but it seems that The Boss was actually at one time proud to be “born in the…USA.”

I wonder how many of us take this privilege of our natural citizenship for granted, and how many of us are really examining our roots of our grandparents and other ancestors who came here legally when the system of immigration actually worked for this country, and worked well, because it testified to the entire world that the United States of America really was the Land of the Free. 

We heard from our ancestors about the feeling in their hearts when they saw the Statue of Liberty, the feeling of incredible accomplishment and pride when they were sworn in as a United States Citizen after studying about our country’s history and government, and we listened to their stories of how hard they labored, day and night, in addition to learning the language of this country. 

My mother’s parents came separately to this country from Italy while they were teenagers.  All immigrants during that time were detained in New York for many weeks while their backgrounds were being checked by our government.  They had to have sponsors, a relative or friend in this country already established in America.  Once they were cleared, they were free to live and work, while studying to become a citizen. 

My grandmother was very young, and taught herself to read and write English.  She was a very intelligent woman in the “old country”, an intellectual, a person who valued the arts, culture, and the opera.  She loved politics and history.  I thought she was stupid, because she could not speak English.  To me, she was just “an immigrant”.  I wasn’t close to her at all until after she died, when my mother told me about her, and I realized how intelligent my grandmother really was. 

I never met my grandfather because he died before I was born.  He did not learn the language.  He felt it wasn’t necessary because he was a laborer and worked with his Italian friends indoors at the leather tannery, and outside on the farms.  He did not complain.  He was grateful that he had even a job to take care of his family.  He loved America.  One of his pleasures was listening to the fights on the radio.  My mother would sit with him and translate all the action from English to Italian. 

My father’s parents came to America from Canada.  They spoke Canadian French, and broken English.  They established themselves in America, became citizens, and owned a farm and a boarding house.  They died before I was born, but my father was very proud of both of them, because they worked very hard on American soil, and provided jobs to other immigrants on their farm, as well as a place to live. 

A dear friend of mine came to this country in the late 60s because of oppression in his own country.  He came here legally, through sponsorship, and was detained for a few weeks while our government checked his background.  When he was free to leave, he began his journey to becoming a United States Citizen.  He learned our language, went to work, studied here, and has had a very successful life.  He is the smartest man I know, a cultured gentleman, and a most fascinating person. 

These are examples of the immigration process when it worked.  That was then.  This is now.  Why has it evolved into this quagmire of political division, something that necessitates 392 pages of rhetoric to appease Democrats, Republicans, and all those who fall in between?

If you examine the immigration bill being pushed in our faces, you will realize it is only a palliative course and not a curative one.  Woven through it are some very complex and mean-spirited restrictions for a population of immigrants who have been here for decades, and have been working for our country, not collecting from the government, but actually working on farms, in restaurants, in nursing homes, in construction; but slipped through the process 20 or 30 years ago.  They brought their families, their sons and daughters have gone to school here.  That means their families are Americanized, not necessarily citizens.  Can you imagine what hell this bill is going to cause for them? 

I admit something has to be done for “illegals”, and the “illegal criminal immigrants”, but what about the people who came to this country, but could not for some reason, adapt, learn, and become a citizen because it was just too hard for them, maybe because they were working day and night and just didn’t have the time or didn’t truly understand the consequences.  They were blending in too fast, got lost in the shuffle like so many other millions.  Or they were simply not smart enough to pass the exam and they knew it.  Why bother.

What does this immigration bill stand for? Who does it appease?  What makes it right?  What makes it wrong?  Will it rip apart families who are partly Americanized?  Will it create economic vacuums in some job markets?  These are questions we need to ask ourselves, our Senators and Representatives, and our President. 

Just one more question.  What were the rest of those lyrics “Born in the…USA?”

Comments

but slipped through the process 20 or 30 years ago.

Not really true is it.  Back in 1986 we had another amnesty that took care of the 3 million illegals that were here at that time. 

So the illegals that are here have been here at most for 20 years, but on average that would maybe be 10 years.  I’m thinking though that the great majority here have been here under ten years.

They brought their families, their sons and daughters have gone to school here.

So they stole our education?


What’s going to happen to US industry when the global warming extremists like John McCain double the price of electricity?  I would think all these factories will close and set up in countries where they aren’t scared of technology.


The Whistler's signature
The Whistler on May 23, 2007 at 07:48 am

Here are the lyrics to Born in the USA.


What’s going to happen to US industry when the global warming extremists like John McCain double the price of electricity?  I would think all these factories will close and set up in countries where they aren’t scared of technology.


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The Whistler on May 23, 2007 at 07:49 am
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and all this time I thought it was Björn in the USA! Can’t we get a decent song about a tennis player all to ourselves?



For any voter trying to choose between the two candidates for commander in chief, there is no better test than this: When American strategy in a critical theater was up for grabs, John McCain proposed a highly unpopular and risky path, which he accurately predicted could lead to success. Barack Obama proposed a popular and politically safe route that would have led to an unnecessary and debilitating American defeat at the hands of al Qaeda.

Frederick W. Kagan

Proof on May 23, 2007 at 08:16 am
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Born in the USA is not a proud to be an american song.  It is a song about the working man and being sent to Vietnam.  Bruce Springsteen was very upset when his song was co-opted to be a feel good song for political campaigns.

Hawk on May 23, 2007 at 08:18 am

Born in the USA is not a proud to be an american (sic) song.

Pride aside, even a cognitively and grammatically dysfunctional leftist should know that the noun “American” begins with a capital “A.”


“Poverty of goods is easily cured; poverty of the mind is irreparable.”

Bat One on May 23, 2007 at 08:31 am

well, that just goes to show you what i was and where i was back in that era.  i was the only conservative among all of my m.it. and harvard friends, some of them being actual SDS members (shivers).  at least we laugh about it now. 

back in 1986, who knew that it would exponentially rack up to the insidious millions, and keep climbing each and every day? as i stated in one of my other blogs, Tighten UP, the problem is not just with the immigration bills ad nauseum, it’s with the failure over the past decades to follow through, i.e., keep the promise made in the bill of 1986, to control the borders, keeping the numbers down.  i read a brilliant op-ed piece from Charles Krauthammer a year ago, i think May 14th, Washington Post; where he really criticizes the administration for slacking off about the idea of building a wall along the border. he goes into a little detail about it, and to me it made sense when i read it at the time, so i dug it up last night, and it makes even more sense in retrospect.  of course, we all remember pat buchanan’s philosophy which was deemed to be SO OUTRAGEOUS because it smacked of ISOLATIONISM, whenever he spoke about SEALING OFF THE BORDERS, and when was this??? 10, 12, 14 years ago?  i had a brief interview with him just before the New Hampshire primaries, and he was considered really a right wing lunatic.  the radio station i was working for never aired the interview because that’s exactly what he sounded like.  well, look where America is today… buchanan was a great guy, kind of a prophetic politician, or a man with a vision for our country.  we should have paid attention.

thanks for the feedback. i appreciate all of your comments.  and thanks, whistler, and proof, for enlightening me about The Boss’ song.

angelina on May 23, 2007 at 08:48 am

Yes, Hawk and I bet he refused all royalties as his protest against people using his song to express pride in being born in America.


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Anna on May 23, 2007 at 08:53 am

Well I was somewhat against the Amnesty bill in 1986 because it just didn’t feel right, but Ronald Reagan said it was ok so I didn’t worry a lot about it.

But we were promised enforcement of the border.  Maybe some of that should have been set at that time, but Bush 1, Clinton and Bush 2 have all miserably failed to do their duty.  (Plus the Congresses at the time.)

All we got was a worthless chore for employers to do (I-9’s) that illegals can easily get around.

I really believe that Washington doesn’t have any more intention of doing the right thing with this amnesty bill as they did with the last one.


What’s going to happen to US industry when the global warming extremists like John McCain double the price of electricity?  I would think all these factories will close and set up in countries where they aren’t scared of technology.


The Whistler's signature
The Whistler on May 23, 2007 at 08:56 am

i really think, given Reagan’s authentic reality-based, no-nonsense, Matt-Dillon-Get out of Dodge kind of masculine demeanor, coupled with his incredible passion and genuine righteousness toward humanity (i mean, just look at his accomplishments), he really meant for that 86 amnesty bill to be successful and for it to be a solution for unforseeable problems in the future.  i can’t fault Reagan for not being able to realize what would happen 25 years down the road. it was, however, the responsibility of the subsequent administrations to make sure that those provisions of that bill were enforced, and damn it all to hell if they weren’t. so here we are. and where do we go from here.  we the people. unalienable rights. etcetera.

angelina on May 23, 2007 at 09:10 am

I certainly agree with you about Reagan.  On the other hand the bill that he signed didn’t work out.

Your question of “who knew” I seem to recall a lot of people thinking that this wouldn’t work.  But that was a long time ago.


What’s going to happen to US industry when the global warming extremists like John McCain double the price of electricity?  I would think all these factories will close and set up in countries where they aren’t scared of technology.


The Whistler's signature
The Whistler on May 23, 2007 at 09:37 am

If you’re about the same age as I am, give or take a decade, then you remember Bruce Springfield strutting around the stage, wearing a flagged bandana on his sweating curls, leading the audience in the chorus with his raspy, synergistic wailing: “Born in the…USA...Born in the…USA!!!”

Bruce Springsteen.

Come on man.  That is just sad.

And Springsteen spent 2004 flying around the country to campaign with John Kerry and I believe that his senior Senator from MA wrote the Amnesty Bill.

Justin B. on May 23, 2007 at 09:51 am

hey jason, c’mon yourself, man. (i’m a woman. and probably old enough to be your mom. so cut me some slack.) you obviously knew who i meant. right? and is it springsteen or springstein? who’s on first, anyway?

kennedy spearheaded the group for this “amnesty” bill, but i do not believe he was the sole author. he couldn’t have stayed sober long enough to put two pages together.

angelina on May 23, 2007 at 12:54 pm

I guess the Demoncrats had a whole host of special interests helping craft this abomination. 

Rush said that La Raza had veto power over the legislation. La Raza supposedly wants to take back the Southwest.


What’s going to happen to US industry when the global warming extremists like John McCain double the price of electricity?  I would think all these factories will close and set up in countries where they aren’t scared of technology.


The Whistler's signature
The Whistler on May 23, 2007 at 12:57 pm

"Born in the U.S.A.” huh?

This song really makes me sick to my stomach.

People think this song is about being patriotic.  To me, it symbolizes 400 years of oppression towards the Native Americans.

Our land was stolen, our people murdered, forced genocide toward tens of millions of Native Americans.  There wouldn’t be any such thing as the “U.S.A.” if the European Immigrants would have left my culture alone.

The only culture who are truly “Americans” are the Native people.  People will say I was born here, my parents were born here...so what?  Can you draw your cultural heritage to this land?

Bruce Springsteen makes me sick and this song makes me think of nothing but pain and horror suffered by Native Americans over 400 years.

If you disagree with my comments, then you must be a racist bigot of the highest degree.

Creasy on May 23, 2007 at 03:06 pm

Funny I thought the human race developed in the same area (probably Africa) and people moved around from there.


What’s going to happen to US industry when the global warming extremists like John McCain double the price of electricity?  I would think all these factories will close and set up in countries where they aren’t scared of technology.


The Whistler's signature
The Whistler on May 23, 2007 at 03:09 pm
WOOF on May 23, 2007 at 03:22 pm
Avatar for Hawk

Bruce Springsteen makes me sick and this song makes me think of nothing but pain and horror suffered by Native Americans over 400 years.

Creasy,

Read the lyrics.  This is not a patriotic song.  It is a song about being screwed by the government and the system.  It is not a song saying how great the USA is.

Hawk on May 23, 2007 at 03:34 pm

Creasy:

If you disagree with my comments, then you must be a racist bigot of the highest degree.

And if you disagree with me, you are the wh*re son of a dung beetle.

Classy way to frame an argument....

Carrick on May 23, 2007 at 03:39 pm

Creasy, If you were maybe Vietnamese or even a nam vet then I could, (not pleased but..)understand your dislike towards this song but it see no connection at all to the Indians


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Anna on May 23, 2007 at 03:46 pm

Classy way to frame an argument....

Right, come up with a silly racist position and then claim that anyone who disagrees is the real racist.

When disagreeing would entail all races being equal.

Silliest point ever.

By the way, how about us that have a little indian blood?


What’s going to happen to US industry when the global warming extremists like John McCain double the price of electricity?  I would think all these factories will close and set up in countries where they aren’t scared of technology.


The Whistler's signature
The Whistler on May 23, 2007 at 04:00 pm

Creas, tens of millions? Want to back that up with some evidence? From all numbers I have seen there was possibly ten million people living on the continents of the western hemisphere at the time Europeans started to arrive.

As for the boss, what a piece of shit. I never especially liked any of his music. 1st album is the only truly original work he has done. The rest was simply narsisitic crap.


Una Salus Victus Nullam Sperare Salutem

2Hotel9 on May 24, 2007 at 04:50 am

I’d best be more careful when assigning a title to my posts because it’s painfully evident that there are some who pay attention only to the title and don’t read the content of the post. That’s what’s sad. It’s like judging a book by its cover. Why not read the post before jumping on the implication of the title? By the way, I incorrectly referred to The Boss as Bruce Springfield.  Silly old me, emphasis on old.  You all knew to whom I was referring.  Thank you for not mentioning it and saving it for the one who was anxious to embarrass me. 

And as for the one who has cornered the heritage on America, and calls those who don’t agree with his/her point of view a bigot and/or racist, my response will probably stir up even more controversy than what’s intended. 

When someone grabs at the slightest opportunity to voice in anger and hatred his own bigotry, then who can argue?  I can only say that I am not the one who murdered, slaughtered, and raped his people and took his land. Neither did my grandparents who were from Italy and Canada, and if this person took the time to read the post, he would know what my heritage is. My grandparents both settled in the State of New Hampshire long after the Revolutionary War, and decades after the Civil War. 

I do not understand why there exists such anger and hatred toward others who have nothing to do with atrosities committed against groups of people/ races/ societies/ cultures. I, myself as a woman, have many reasons to be angry at a particular races and gender because of horrific traumatic assaults on me physically and emotionally, but I have gotten over myself.  It is not about me, me, me.  I do not hate. I am not angry. The Lord has allowed me to forgive the people who hurt me, and not to hate.

I get very frustrated and angry at times with the mindset of groups of people who twist the truth and misrepresent others for their self-serving purposes.

I am not a racist nor am I a bigot.  I will not lie to you by saying that “some of my best friends are....” because this is not true.  I do not know any Native American Indians.  I cannot apologize to you for something I or my grandparents did not do to your people.  I can, however, feel sorry for what happened to your people, as I feel sorry for what happened to African people when they came to this country and were sold into slavery, beaten and raped, and killed, as I feel sorry for Jewish people who were slaughtered, as I feel sorry for any group of people who have been hurt in any way.

angelina on May 24, 2007 at 05:02 am
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The only culture who are truly “Americans” are the Native people.  People will say I was born here, my parents were born here...so what?  Can you draw your cultural heritage to this land?

Yes! It is the only land that I or my children have known! It is a different culture than that of the native people, but my children’s culture is different from that of mine! Better? Maybe, maybe not, but to deny that it is a culture, or that it is not an American culture, one drawn from the land of their birth is to indulge in a fantasy world.
American culture? Named after Amerigo Vespucci, an Italian mapmaker. Maybe only Italian-Americans can claim to be “truly ‘Americans’”!
Celebrate your culture! But to say that our uniquely American culture isn’t American because we are not the descendants of indigenous peoples doesn’t hold water.


For any voter trying to choose between the two candidates for commander in chief, there is no better test than this: When American strategy in a critical theater was up for grabs, John McCain proposed a highly unpopular and risky path, which he accurately predicted could lead to success. Barack Obama proposed a popular and politically safe route that would have led to an unnecessary and debilitating American defeat at the hands of al Qaeda.

Frederick W. Kagan

Proof on May 24, 2007 at 05:06 am

Nice comments Angelina.  One thing that that the “victims” need to realize is that all people were downtrodden at some point.  If we went back far enough who can’t invent a grudge against someone for something.

Who cares, those people are all dead.

It also brings to mind that the Indians were fighting among themselves for territory.  I’m told that around 1700 the Mandan were where I live.  The Sioux came along and kicked them off this ground.  But that was only because the Sioux were forced out of Northern Minnesota.


What’s going to happen to US industry when the global warming extremists like John McCain double the price of electricity?  I would think all these factories will close and set up in countries where they aren’t scared of technology.


The Whistler's signature
The Whistler on May 24, 2007 at 05:10 am

Creasy - The only culture who are truly “Americans” are the Native people.  People will say I was born here, my parents were born here...so what?  Can you draw your cultural heritage to this land?

Yes I can. The only “cultural heritage” I personally know of is that my grandparents immigrated to this great country and fought in WW2. After that, we were all Americans with American customs and mores.

If you disagree with my comments, then you must be a racist bigot of the highest degree.

I see that you’re falling back onto this crap. That’s too bad. To me, the song symbolizes the ugly 1980’s excess of pop culture. I guess thinking that makes me a “racist bigot of the highest degree”. What a joke.

likwidshoe on May 24, 2007 at 05:25 am
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If you disagree with my comments, then you must be a racist bigot of the highest degree.

lik: I’m pretty sure that was ‘tongue in cheek’! No one could be that obtuse!



For any voter trying to choose between the two candidates for commander in chief, there is no better test than this: When American strategy in a critical theater was up for grabs, John McCain proposed a highly unpopular and risky path, which he accurately predicted could lead to success. Barack Obama proposed a popular and politically safe route that would have led to an unnecessary and debilitating American defeat at the hands of al Qaeda.

Frederick W. Kagan

Proof on May 24, 2007 at 05:29 am

Proof, I read it as serious just because the rest of the post was so serious.


What’s going to happen to US industry when the global warming extremists like John McCain double the price of electricity?  I would think all these factories will close and set up in countries where they aren’t scared of technology.


The Whistler's signature
The Whistler on May 24, 2007 at 05:31 am

The only “cultural heritage” I personally know of is that my grandparents immigrated to this great country and fought in WW2. After that, we were all Americans with American customs and mores.

Yup, I’m a genuine ‘American’ too. My mom’s dad’s dad’s dad was born up in the middle of Maine in 1854. He was a log runner on the Kennebec as was his son. They both died young from running logs in cold water and loosing circulation and developing absesi and whatnot in their legs. My grandpa was a blacksmith. A real one. Once that became old fashioned, he built dams and did forestry work. Both my mom’s side grandparents fought in the European theatre during WWII. He was infantry and she drove ambulances. They met stateside after the scrapping was over. Now, how am I not a ‘true American’. What about the land bridge Creasy? And the older sites in South America. Clearly y’all are related to the Asian mongloids. Your ‘authenticity claim’ is just as crappy as ours, neither of which are crappy. Even my fiance’s family came over in ‘62 from Cuba. Her grandpa flew planes in the Congo for Castro and, when he really started to realize what was going on, defected here and flew planes for us in the Bay of Pigs. Her mom was born in Havana, but rest assured she’s just as American as any of us. I don’t feel there are varying degrees that are worth examining unless you just hopped out of a cargo box in Miami or off a dingy onto the beach. Even the ’Marielitos‘ from the 80s are ‘Americans’ at this point.


rasberry

Sparkie Arbuckle on May 24, 2007 at 05:40 am
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makes me think of nothing but pain and horror suffered by Native Americans over 400 years.

Excuse me, but is the pain and suffering of the last, say, 50 years as bad as the suffering of the first 350? Or is it a homogenized, one-size-fits-all kind of suffering?
Has anything at all improved over the last 400 years? Or is your pain the same as your great-great grandfather?



For any voter trying to choose between the two candidates for commander in chief, there is no better test than this: When American strategy in a critical theater was up for grabs, John McCain proposed a highly unpopular and risky path, which he accurately predicted could lead to success. Barack Obama proposed a popular and politically safe route that would have led to an unnecessary and debilitating American defeat at the hands of al Qaeda.

Frederick W. Kagan

Proof on May 24, 2007 at 05:44 am

Angie, I got the thrust of your article. I do fully appreciate having been born in the USofA. And I can trace 3 lines of my family in America back to the early 1700s. One of whom married a Choctaw woman. Over the years I have encountered many people who have immigrated(legally&illegally). The vast majority of them were damned glad to be in America. I have traveled to several countries where poverty and repression are the norm, and when I hear leftards screeching about how bad life is in America, and how bad America and Americans are I laugh my ass off. They obviously have not a clue.


Una Salus Victus Nullam Sperare Salutem

2Hotel9 on May 24, 2007 at 06:18 am

The only culture who are truly “Americans” are the Native people.  People will say I was born here, my parents were born here...so what?  Can you draw your cultural heritage to this land?

I’ve never understood people using the works of their ancestors as props for their own lives. 

My ancestors traveled to this land on one of the first ships to land here.  They made friends with the lose bands of nomads that lived in the area now known as New England.  What does that mean for me?  I get no special dispensation from anyone because of the fact that my ancestors were here longer than most of the rest of the immigrants. 

Be your own man!  Don’t rely on the works of your ancestors to define your life.

Don’t belittle others for acts of their ancestors, either.  I have never had any control over the actions of my parents, grand-parents, great-grand-parents, etc.  John Alden never did anything specific for me, nor I for him. 

Heritage is just another way for people to feel good about themselves.

Seth Yantiss on May 24, 2007 at 06:38 am
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John Alden never did anything specific for me, nor I for him.

Are you related to Alden? Creepy, my family traced their origins to him.

Andrew on May 24, 2007 at 06:44 am
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Yes, Hawk and I bet he refused all royalties as his protest against people using his song to express pride in being born in America.

“Born in the USA” was not a patriotic song. Hawk is right, it was an anti-Vietnam song (more than decade after the fact). Anyone that knows anything about music knows this. When Republicans tried to use this song in their campaings, the Boss threatened lawsuits because the song was not meant to be patriotic.

Andrew on May 24, 2007 at 06:51 am

Are you related to Alden? Creepy, my family traced their origins to him.

Yup.  I always thought you were a good guy, Andrew… now I know why… wink

My parents did a genealogy study prior to my birth.  My middle name is Alden, after John. 

I NEVER use my middle name.  Not for any particular reason… I just don’t see a need. 

If you go back far enough, we’re all related.

Seth Yantiss on May 24, 2007 at 07:04 am

Hey we’re all cousins.  I once figured out that the number of decendents of John and Priscilla could number in the thousands.

According to Wiki a number of our other relatives are:

Henry Wadsworth Longfellow was a descendant of John Alden, as were John Adams, John Quincy Adams, Orson Welles, Dan Quayle, Ernest Hemingway, Frank Nelson Doubleday, Roger Nash Baldwin, Samuel Eliot Morison, Gamaliel Bradford, Dick Van Dyke, Raquel Welch, Julia Child, James Whistler, Ned Lamont, and (presumably) Marilyn Monroe.

I find it it somewhat Ironic that it turns out that I am related to James Whistler.  smile


What’s going to happen to US industry when the global warming extremists like John McCain double the price of electricity?  I would think all these factories will close and set up in countries where they aren’t scared of technology.


The Whistler's signature
The Whistler on May 24, 2007 at 07:16 am

Marilyn Monroe.

Oh man… Now I’m creeped out… I’ve been oogling over a relative for all these years?  ICK!

Seth Yantiss on May 24, 2007 at 07:24 am

I’ve been oogling over a relative for all these years?

Notice as soon as you find a new relatic it turns out they are a perv.


What’s going to happen to US industry when the global warming extremists like John McCain double the price of electricity?  I would think all these factories will close and set up in countries where they aren’t scared of technology.


The Whistler's signature
The Whistler on May 24, 2007 at 07:32 am

Notice as soon as you find a new relatic it turns out they are a perv.

Yeah and none of mine can spell either… wink

Seth Yantiss on May 24, 2007 at 07:53 am

I’m more troubled that you go to family reunions to pick up girls.


What’s going to happen to US industry when the global warming extremists like John McCain double the price of electricity?  I would think all these factories will close and set up in countries where they aren’t scared of technology.


The Whistler's signature
The Whistler on May 24, 2007 at 07:57 am
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Just when I thought my family couldn’t get any stranger…

Neither of you better go all ‘creepy uncle’ on me.

Andrew on May 24, 2007 at 08:08 am

Family reunion pickups have to much potential baggage, weddings are the hot ticket.


Una Salus Victus Nullam Sperare Salutem

2Hotel9 on May 24, 2007 at 08:11 am
Avatar for Andrew

Personally I prefer funerals.

Andrew on May 24, 2007 at 08:17 am

Andrew, I’m very well aware of the politics behind “Born in the USA” and I never insinuated anything differently. Why you quoted my post is my question.
As for the following comment you made:

Anyone that knows anything about music knows this.

Since that comment has no correlation to what I said I will presume that wasn’t for me.


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Anna on May 24, 2007 at 08:28 am
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Sorry, I just made a mistake is all. I actually meant to quote someone else. Hope you can forgive me smile

Andrew on May 24, 2007 at 08:46 am

Andrew, do you like Gladiator movies?

Seth Yantiss on May 24, 2007 at 08:55 am

ROTFLMAO!


What’s going to happen to US industry when the global warming extremists like John McCain double the price of electricity?  I would think all these factories will close and set up in countries where they aren’t scared of technology.


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The Whistler on May 24, 2007 at 08:57 am

Andrew, Absolutely! That’s why I asked for the clarification. As for making mistakes.. We’re all fairly competent in that area at one time or another :D


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Anna on May 24, 2007 at 08:59 am
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Seth Yantiss, ladies and gentleman, throwing down the obscure movie references.

He’ll be here all day.


When the people fear their government, there is tyranny; when the government fears the people, there is liberty.

-- Thomas Jefferson

Rob’s recently listened-to songs:

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Rob on May 24, 2007 at 09:02 am

Airplane Obscure?

I may have to ban you.


What’s going to happen to US industry when the global warming extremists like John McCain double the price of electricity?  I would think all these factories will close and set up in countries where they aren’t scared of technology.


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The Whistler on May 24, 2007 at 09:08 am

Obscure??  I second what TW said… We’re related after all, so I have to support him.

He’ll be here all day.

Sad, isn’t it wink

Seth Yantiss on May 24, 2007 at 09:16 am

Was that Airplane 1 or 2?

Seth Yantiss on May 24, 2007 at 09:17 am
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Ok then, maybe it isn’t obscure...to old fuddy duddies.


When the people fear their government, there is tyranny; when the government fears the people, there is liberty.

-- Thomas Jefferson

Rob’s recently listened-to songs:

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Rob on May 24, 2007 at 09:30 am

Whoa… you really did think it obscure? 

I guess I’m older than I thought… ICK!

Seth Yantiss on May 24, 2007 at 09:43 am

Creasy said:

“Born in the U.S.A.” huh?

This song really makes me sick to my stomach.

People think this song is about being patriotic.  To me, it symbolizes 400 years of oppression towards the Native Americans.

Our land was stolen, our people murdered, forced genocide toward tens of millions of Native Americans.  There wouldn’t be any such thing as the “U.S.A.” if the European Immigrants would have left my culture alone.

The only culture who are truly “Americans” are the Native people.  People will say I was born here, my parents were born here...so what?  Can you draw your cultural heritage to this land?

Bruce Springsteen makes me sick and this song makes me think of nothing but pain and horror suffered by Native Americans over 400 years.

If you disagree with my comments, then you must be a racist bigot of the highest degree.

Creasy on May 23, 2007 at 05:06 pm

Come on guys, likwidshoe, Whistler, Carrick, Sparkie!
I thought you guys knew me better than that!

The posting I quoted above was a joke.  I just put it up there to see what types of responses I would get.

I sincerely apologize if anyone was offended or thought I was crazy.

If you have read my postings in the past, I have never said anything remotely similar to the posting above.

I was just trying to have a little fun and see if I could pull one over on you guys.

I like Bruce Springsteen and “Born in the U.S.A.” I love this country and I am proud to be an American.

Creasy on May 24, 2007 at 09:48 am

Well whatever Creasy.

Personally, I’ve always found the song to be dorky. I was a young kid in the mid 80’s when it was popular. I didn’t like it then. I don’t like it now.

likwidshoe on May 24, 2007 at 09:52 am
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The posting I quoted above was a joke.

TW: Toldja so!



For any voter trying to choose between the two candidates for commander in chief, there is no better test than this: When American strategy in a critical theater was up for grabs, John McCain proposed a highly unpopular and risky path, which he accurately predicted could lead to success. Barack Obama proposed a popular and politically safe route that would have led to an unnecessary and debilitating American defeat at the hands of al Qaeda.

Frederick W. Kagan

Proof on May 24, 2007 at 09:54 am

I guess I couldn’t fool Proof.

Creasy on May 24, 2007 at 09:57 am
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I guess I couldn’t fool Proof.

Sorry! From your earlier postings you seemed like a rational human being. I just didn’t think your trolley would slip that far in just a few days!



For any voter trying to choose between the two candidates for commander in chief, there is no better test than this: When American strategy in a critical theater was up for grabs, John McCain proposed a highly unpopular and risky path, which he accurately predicted could lead to success. Barack Obama proposed a popular and politically safe route that would have led to an unnecessary and debilitating American defeat at the hands of al Qaeda.

Frederick W. Kagan

Proof on May 24, 2007 at 10:01 am

A real practical joker, you are. What kind of person does this? When you saw how serious it was going down, why didn’t you intervene and admit that you were “just joking” instead of allowing it to continue?

What you did was dishonest, and really disrespectful of everyone--not just me.  We put our feelings out there and made ourselves vulnerable while you just sat back and read our comments, playing “gotcha”.  Well, not only is that behavior immature, but it’s unkind and mean-spirited.

Who can trust what you write? Who can believe what you write is really what you feel or if you are just “joking around” to get a “response”.

You could use a course in ethics in journalism, and the good old-fashioned Golden Rule.

Put that in your peace pipe and smoke it.

angelina on May 24, 2007 at 10:50 am

Creasy you got me, maybe I’m too defensive with everything.

Seth, it was Airplane 1.  Airplane II is notable for “Scraps is a boy dog.”


What’s going to happen to US industry when the global warming extremists like John McCain double the price of electricity?  I would think all these factories will close and set up in countries where they aren’t scared of technology.


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The Whistler on May 24, 2007 at 11:21 am
Avatar for Andrew

Andrew, do you like Gladiator movies?

Oh boy. Looks like I picked the wrong week to give up sniffing glue.

Seth, how do you like your coffee?

Andrew on May 24, 2007 at 11:37 am

Black, like his men


What’s going to happen to US industry when the global warming extremists like John McCain double the price of electricity?  I would think all these factories will close and set up in countries where they aren’t scared of technology.


The Whistler's signature
The Whistler on May 24, 2007 at 11:38 am

Andrew, how about some coffee?


What’s going to happen to US industry when the global warming extremists like John McCain double the price of electricity?  I would think all these factories will close and set up in countries where they aren’t scared of technology.


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The Whistler on May 24, 2007 at 11:41 am
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Gladiator

Is that the movie about the cannibal who ate his mother-in-law?


For any voter trying to choose between the two candidates for commander in chief, there is no better test than this: When American strategy in a critical theater was up for grabs, John McCain proposed a highly unpopular and risky path, which he accurately predicted could lead to success. Barack Obama proposed a popular and politically safe route that would have led to an unnecessary and debilitating American defeat at the hands of al Qaeda.

Frederick W. Kagan

Proof on May 24, 2007 at 11:45 am

Again, like I said:

I sincerely apologize if anyone was offended or thought I was crazy.

I just thought that those who have read my postings and previous comments, it was so out of character to say the things I said above.

I saw a few of the comments, and I didn’t check it again until nearly lunch time.  I didn’t expect 25+ postings from the time I last checked.  People choose to post, I don’t make them. 

By the way, I will take your peace pipe comment as a joke.

Creasy on May 24, 2007 at 03:59 pm

OK, Creasy… you got me on that one.  Your mother is a hampster and your cat smells of elderberry.  tongue wink

Carrick on May 24, 2007 at 04:23 pm

Shame on you Creasy! You almost became an accessory to murder when Andrew mistakenly accused me of something he didn’t like in my response to your “joke”.
I could have easily murdered him if I wasn’t the even tempered, level headed, forgiving, gentle, kind, nice, commendable, tranquil, just ducky person that I am.
Ok ok.. so I’m probably not many of those.. but shame on you anyway Creasy rasberry


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Anna on May 24, 2007 at 04:50 pm

Okay, Creasy. No problem. Handshake, pat on the back, tip of the hat, clink of the glass, drag on the pipe. Everything’s cool. Just one more thing, and then I have to leave.

A thread like this seems more like a chat room and that’s not why I write here, and certainly not why I comment on others’ posts.

If you haven’t already noticed, I take my writing seriously, and when I read someone’s post, I may not agree with what they’ve written but I respect them because I understand how much of themselves they put into their writing, and the risks they take by expressing themselves openly to a critical and wide-based audience of readers.

I also learn from people; for example, Rob, whose articles are well researched and professionally written. He is an excellent commentator; he is or should be doing this for a living.

When I write, I don’t expect to get caught up in a discussion of pettiness, or defending something I’m wrongly accused of in a public forum. If you had issues with something that offended you personally, a better way would have been to e-mail me intead of pulling everyone into the ring.

Oh, silly me, there I go again, taking this matter seriously.  I forgot for a moment that this was only a joke.

Cheers. Have a good day.

angelina on May 25, 2007 at 01:26 am
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