Say Anything Blog

There are all sorts of different flavors of conservative, Mike.  Buckley is a member of the old guard, and is often overly pessimistic in his assessments. 

I love and respect Mr. Buckley.  He is one who led me to my conservatism, at least on fiscal/domestic policy matters.  But I don’t always agree with him, and Iraq is one of those areas.

Buckley seems to think that we can retreat from wars like Iraq back into “fortress America” and be just fine, but that time has passed.  We aren’t insulated from the threat of Islamic fascism like we have been from threats in the past.  We have to face this, and Iraq is the place where we’re facing it.

If we retreat from Iraq it will be another victory for the Islamists as Somalia was.  You know, the conflict we retreated from that caused Osama bin Laden to call our country a “paper tiger.”

Buckley is wrong on this, and his status as one of the “patron saints” of the conservative movement doesn’t change that.

When the people fear their government, there is tyranny; when the government fears the people, there is liberty.

-- Thomas Jefferson

Rob’s recently listened-to songs:

I always love it when a leftie quotes a conservative to give leftie views some credibility.  Usually it’s a cherry-pick, but not in this case.  The real difference between lefties and conservatives is revealed by this tactic, however.  With conservatives, it’s the principle that matters, so if Bill Buckley is obviously wrong, like he is here, the conservatives aren’t going to go along with him.  Lefties, on the other hand, are all about partisanship, so when they can find a conservative that disagrees with a Presidential policy, even if he’s wrong, they jump right on it, thus abandoning their “principles” to resist anything said by conservatives.  It’s situational ethics.

Save America; boycott the MSM.

Rob...I agree with you that conservatives can disagree with conservatives just as liberals can disagree with liberals. I also think that conservative views on any issue can evolve over time just as liberal views can. It actually makes sense that conservatives would become less isolationist over time since the world is much smaller today through technological and economic developments...way over on the other side of the world is much closer than it used to be. Thanks for your viewpoint.

"There are different kinds of truths for different kinds of people. There are truths appropriate for children; truths that are appropriate for students; truths that are appropriate for educated adults; and truths that are appropriate for highly educated adults, and the notion that there should be one set of truths available to everyone is a modern democratic fallacy. It doesn’t work.”

Irving Kristol

You’re welcome, Mike.

When the people fear their government, there is tyranny; when the government fears the people, there is liberty.

-- Thomas Jefferson

Rob’s recently listened-to songs:

r108

With conservatives, it’s the principle that matters, so if Bill Buckley is obviously wrong, like he is here, the conservatives aren’t going to go along with him.  Lefties, on the other hand, are all about partisanship, so when they can find a conservative that disagrees with a Presidential policy, even if he’s wrong, they jump right on it, thus abandoning their “principles” to resist anything said by conservatives.

Interesting perspective as always robert. It doesn’t make much sense to me but I know you’re not alone in thinking that true. There’s nothing inherently “conservative” in the Iraq war policy and I think that is largely Buckley’s issue with it...perhaps this is another sign that the old labels are losing their usefulness.

"There are different kinds of truths for different kinds of people. There are truths appropriate for children; truths that are appropriate for students; truths that are appropriate for educated adults; and truths that are appropriate for highly educated adults, and the notion that there should be one set of truths available to everyone is a modern democratic fallacy. It doesn’t work.”

Irving Kristol

MikeA:

There’s nothing inherently “conservative” in the Iraq war policy…

Interesting concept.  I don’t think in political labels, so haven’t any thoughts on that.  To me, dealing with Islamic terrorism with military force is at least thirty years overdue, and that is my essential position. Better late than never, IMO.
I do have an opinion piece on Buckley’s article and the greater issue of the relationship between Iraq and the war on terrorism on the Reader Blogs.  Would like to hear your opinion on it.

Save America; boycott the MSM.

MikeA: In case I wasn’t clear; fighting terrorism is the right thing to do, that is the principle to which I was referring.  I realize some people who regard themselves as conservative(Pat Buchanan) are of the mindset that we should never go beyond our borders, even to do business, but I see nothing in our Founding Principles that mandates that, and it is unrealistic in our world of today, as you have already pointed out.

Save America; boycott the MSM.

MikeA
I guess the Republicans I hang around with are ‘old guard’ as Rob says, or ‘real Republicans’ as I would say. There’s no excuse that can construe Republicans as being ‘big government’ - they are not. Furthermore, this ‘moral’ tinge the current admin has tried to color all their actions with is silly. I know more than a few Republicans with some serious clout in the NE and very few of them have positive things to say about how the Iraq war has been managed or how it was started. They generally agree with the aims of the war, just question the ‘path’ that the Bush admin has chosen to get up the hill. Bush Jr. seems to not be from the same party that his daddy and Reagan were from, but somehow he is. Is the GOP going to have an identity crisis in the next five years if they don’t reconnoiter? I think so. Is the Dem party currently having a serious identity crisis? Yes. They only exist in conflict - Like a girl no one with brains dates for more than a month. We see that a bit from the GOP, but its not their end-all-be-all - yet. The thing that sucks is that both parties are slipping towards ‘populism’. That’s just bad in my opinion.

Yun Chu said, “You must strictly not express in words what is very significant. Both dragon and snake are killed in one blow.”

Robert Novak writes

I know, I know, R108 and others will howl and type frantically that Hagel is a RINO but he speaks what other Republicans are speaking behind closed doors.  You can shoot the messengers with Buckley and Tenet and Hagel and others but the sound they are making is deafening except to those who are tone deaf.

the sound they are making is deafening except to those who are tone deaf

So, when conservatives agree with each other, they are “marching in lock step”. but when they disagree (demonstrating, BTW, that conservative hardly ever march in lock step!)half of them (the half that disagrees with the liberals) is deaf!

Barack Obama: All hat and no cattle since 1997!

P: There you go again, making things up.  I said very plainly that I support military action against terrorism and our effort in Iraq on principle, and that anyone who doesn’t agree isn’t on my “approved” list, regardless of political affiliation.  Your fantasies aside, if we don’t defeat them over there, we will have to fight them over here, and the death toll will be many times that of 9/11.

Save America; boycott the MSM.