Home Mobile Authors Say Anything Register Login

Friday, May 09, 2008

Argumentation 101 - Reductio ad absurdum

In symbols:

To disprove p: one uses the tautology (p → (R ∧ ¬R)) → ¬p, where R is any proposition and the ∧ symbol is taken to mean “and”. Assuming p, one proves R and ¬R, and concludes from this that p → (R ∧ ¬R). This and the tautology together imply ¬p.
See here for background on the following substitutions:

1) Let ‘p’ equal ‘Pilgrim is correct’.

2) Let ‘R’ equal ‘its good when UW students suppress free speech’.

To disprove p or ‘Pil is correct’: one uses the tautology (p → (R ∧ ¬R)) → ¬p, where R is ‘its good when UW students suppress free speech’ and the ∧ symbol is taken to mean “and”.

Assuming p, one proves R and ¬R, and concludes from this that p → (R ∧ ¬R).

If Pil is correct then its good when UW students suppress free speech and its not good when UW students suppress free speech.

This and the tautology together imply ¬p.

If the assumption that Pil is correct leads to a contradiction, then Pil is not correct.

Pil is not correct.

Comments

Holy smokes!

Boy, Sparkie, you sure went the long way around the barn to tell me I’m full of crap.

It would have been better if you’d ahve just came out and said it, because I don’t think anyone understood a thing you just wrote.


Election ‘08 - We Are So Screwed

Pilgrim on May 9, 2008 at 11:55 am

Pilgrim: You’ve just been spanked by the Master of Reductio ad absurdum!



Those who think the party or the country, will be “taught a lesson” by handing the levers of power over to the liberals will learn a lesson, but it will be at the expense of our country and her liberties. And there are no guarantees that the party or the country will come out stronger, more conservative or better positioned to win elections against the incumbent liberals.

Proof on May 9, 2008 at 12:04 pm

pil
i forgot to point out that the arrow signifies an ‘if...then...’ conditional. does that help?

i’m just trying to keep you consistent for fear that your ‘rational’ conservative comerades will come down on you for being an emotional, flip flopping fawning flakey (and so on.)…

Sparkie Arbuckle on May 9, 2008 at 12:09 pm

comerades

Hmmm! Looks vaguely like English!
Pilgrim: I just wanted to add that you’d been spanked by the Master of

bullshit hypocricy (sic) on sayanything

as well!



Those who think the party or the country, will be “taught a lesson” by handing the levers of power over to the liberals will learn a lesson, but it will be at the expense of our country and her liberties. And there are no guarantees that the party or the country will come out stronger, more conservative or better positioned to win elections against the incumbent liberals.

Proof on May 9, 2008 at 12:16 pm

Reductio ad absurdum!

That would describe most of what you post.


Being liberal is never having to admit you’re wrong

docdave on May 9, 2008 at 12:25 pm

Basic error in categories on Sparkie’s part.  Or are we going to say that placing crosses to represent those killed by abortion is as obnoxious as screaming “God hates fags”?

Now that would be reduction ad absurdum, administered by the very person claiming it.

Bike Bubba on May 9, 2008 at 12:27 pm

bike bubba
the second post was mounted in the name of free speech, putatively. the first in the name of ‘political correctness’, or so all you emotional Liberals are leading me to believe, now that the pressure is on.

Sparkie Arbuckle on May 9, 2008 at 12:34 pm

bike bubba.
i didn’t know you were so PC!

Sparkie Arbuckle on May 9, 2008 at 12:37 pm

Yes, Sparkie, there’s no difference whatsoever between crosses on the lawn and screaming obscenities at people, and I’m PC to claim that.

Tell ya what.  Why don’t you go outside a biker bar tonight and yell some obscenities at them, trying to have it be “free speech.” I’m sure the police and the courts will find no other issues out there.

Bike Bubba on May 9, 2008 at 12:57 pm

Reductio ad Absurdum: See also avatar_81.gif


Out Here
Rodney G. Graves

Persia delenda est.
Latin: “Persia (modern day Iran) should be destoyed”

Rodney Graves on May 9, 2008 at 02:26 pm

I’m truly humbled that you would waste so much of your negative energy just trying to prove me wrong, Spark.....

....but I still don’t understand a damn thing you said.

I guess I just don’t speak moron.


Election ‘08 - We Are So Screwed

Pilgrim on May 9, 2008 at 03:03 pm

pilgrim

its logic.

Sparkie Arbuckle on May 9, 2008 at 05:17 pm

pilgrim

its (sic) logic.

Maybe it’s your accent? We can tell it’s not your native language!


Those who think the party or the country, will be “taught a lesson” by handing the levers of power over to the liberals will learn a lesson, but it will be at the expense of our country and her liberties. And there are no guarantees that the party or the country will come out stronger, more conservative or better positioned to win elections against the incumbent liberals.

Proof on May 9, 2008 at 05:29 pm

If Pil is correct then its good when UW students suppress free speech and its not good when UW students suppress free speech.

It is not free speech to vandalize someone else’s property. I am no more free to come and spray “You suck moron”, on your house than they are to destroy the other people’s crosses.

Nor do your free speech rights extend to being able to spread your views without being shouted down. No violence was committed, no laws broken. WBC just encountered people with a different opinion and ran away.

Reducto ad absurdum: Claiming that two completely different things are exactly the same to try a brand someone a hypocrite.

Kenny on May 9, 2008 at 06:26 pm

Bike Bubba

Tell ya what.  Why don’t you go outside a biker bar tonight and yell some obscenities at them, trying to have it be “free speech.” I’m sure the police and the courts will find no other issues out there.

Tell ya what.  Why don’t you go outside a Wisconsin state college tonight and put up a bunch of crosses… and start ranting about Jesus like all the other mental midgets with no argument!
asshole.
If bikers beat me up for nonviolent protest… first I would shoot them in the face once they did not back down. I think that would hurt ‘em! My colt 1908 don’t just bruise. Second, if they did lay a hand on me, YOU BET YOUR ASS THEY WOULD GO TO JAIL. This argument is about the constitution and protected rights and Pilgrim’s emotional democrat equivocations.
You get argumentatively spanked and come out with threats? Pussy. Make with an argument or shut the fuck up.

Look how much of an ass proof makes of himself. He’s like that skinny kid hiding behind his friends who have a shred of brains/muscle and yelling ‘poopy head’.

Bike bubba’s
manner of resolving this is by threatening that his people would beat me up. Nice argument. GOP douches who are wrong, who won’t admit it, who will just threaten to beat you up. Classic. And YOU GUYS bitch about Clinton politics. KISS MY ASS, BB! You are getting fuckin destroyed out here bro. Maybe you and Pil should see the drill seargent for some education so that you can actually fend for yourselves. This little tag team garbage only works if you can actually jump in and defend Pil. Right now I am just smashing folding chairs on both your heads, so-to-speak.

Kenny
Nice save! Ha! You’re like r108 (acumen-wise), just not as big a jerk (which isn’t hard).

Sparkie Arbuckle on May 10, 2008 at 07:12 am

Look how much of an ass proof makes of himself.

Yeah! But, I’m such a piker compared to you! Nobody does it better. Heh.



Those who think the party or the country, will be “taught a lesson” by handing the levers of power over to the liberals will learn a lesson, but it will be at the expense of our country and her liberties. And there are no guarantees that the party or the country will come out stronger, more conservative or better positioned to win elections against the incumbent liberals.

Proof on May 10, 2008 at 07:29 am

If bikers beat me up for nonviolent protest… first I would shoot them in the face

Whoa, tiger! Two words: de caf! Heh.



Those who think the party or the country, will be “taught a lesson” by handing the levers of power over to the liberals will learn a lesson, but it will be at the expense of our country and her liberties. And there are no guarantees that the party or the country will come out stronger, more conservative or better positioned to win elections against the incumbent liberals.

Proof on May 10, 2008 at 07:43 am

Actually, Sparkie, your best defense would be to scream like a little girl and pretend to faint and hope they just sniffed you like a bear and walked away.


Election ‘08 - We Are So Screwed

Pilgrim on May 10, 2008 at 08:02 am

Pilgrim
THat’s all you can hope for people to do with your posts too… obviously.

Sparkie Arbuckle on May 10, 2008 at 08:08 am

Kenny
Nice save! Ha! You’re like r108 (acumen-wise), just not as big a jerk (which isn’t hard).

Again, one involves vandalism. Vandalism =/= free speech. In the same way that you can’t go around destroying signs, placards or anything else on campus, you can’t destroy someone else’s crosses. The WBC counter protest was completely lawful. The students had just as much right to shout “You suck. Go home. Etc” as the WBC douchebags had to scream “God hates fags.” As always, when confronted by non friendly faces, WBC retreated.

So, your reducto ad absurdum (arguing from the absurd, or reducing to the absurd):

Pilgrim is FOR freedom of speech of Wisconsin students to lawfully shout down jackasses (who are free to continue to protest, despite being shouted down). Pilgrim is against illegal vandalism (people in similar cases have been prosecuted before), which is not free speech, and does violate the other person’s free speech rights. By your account, this makes Pilgrim inconsistant.

So to believe your sccount, illegal vandalism is just as legitimate as legal shouting on either a legal, moral, or Constitutional level. Since it’s not, your argument is foolish and is the very thing you accused Pilgrim of: reducing to the absurd.

And when confronted with why you’re wrong, you more or less chuckled and called me stupid. Which is cool, I’m used to you doing that when I disprove your nonsense.

Kenny on May 10, 2008 at 12:22 pm

Technically, the gibberish Sparkie (well named “tanked thinker") lead with is not logic itself, but rather shorthand that anyone who has actually absorbed the lessons of logic would know would be lost on the general public.

In other words, the originator of this thread, in making his claim to know the proper use of words (that’s what “logos” refers to after all in Greek), leads with an exercise that he knows will not be understood--in other words, a miscarriage of logic.

The irony is delicious.

And Sparkie, keep your drinkin’ up, as it’s obviously doing you a lot of good to see no difference in categories between your two examples, and is especially valuable to you in that it’s given you the idea that nobody at a biker bar is armed.

Or, put differently, if this is now you think, you’ll do well to keep it to the internet, as real life will be far more punishing.

Bike Bubba on May 12, 2008 at 07:41 am

Bike Bubba: Think of it this way:
Sparkie argues with the point of a thread, can’t convince anyone of his “superior logic” = schoolyard dustup.
Sparkie starts this thread = “Oh, yeah? That’s what I should have said!”
Sparkie starts yet another thread = childish name calling.

His next recourse will be an appeal to authority:
“Mommy! They’re being mean to me!”



Those who think the party or the country, will be “taught a lesson” by handing the levers of power over to the liberals will learn a lesson, but it will be at the expense of our country and her liberties. And there are no guarantees that the party or the country will come out stronger, more conservative or better positioned to win elections against the incumbent liberals.

Proof on May 12, 2008 at 08:18 am
Page 1 of 1        

Post a Comment


Before commenting, please recite:

Grant me the serenity to ignore the trolls,
the courage to debate with honest opponents,
and the wisdom to know the difference.

Name   
Email   
URL   
Human?
  
 

Upload Image    

Remember my personal information

Notify me of follow-up comments?

Note: Notifications will only be sent to confirmed email addresses. Confirm your email address here.