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Monday, August 04, 2008

9/11: Sovereign States Involved, You’ll Know Who in 20-30 Years, Maybe

Care of PBS.

GWEN IFILL: Senator Graham, are there elements in this report, which are classified that Americans should know about but can’t?

SEN. BOB GRAHAM: Yes, going back to your question about what was the greatest surprise. I agree with what Senator Shelby said the degree to which agencies were not communicating was certainly a surprise but also I was surprised at the evidence that there were foreign governments involved in facilitating the activities of at least some of the terrorists in the United States.

I am stunned that we have not done a better job of pursuing that to determine if other terrorists received similar support and, even more important, if the infrastructure of a foreign government assisting terrorists still exists for the current generation of terrorists who are here planning the next plots.

To me that is an extremely significant issue and most of that information is classified, I think overly-classified. I believe the American people should know the extent of the challenge that we face in terms of foreign government involvement. That would motivate the government to take action.

GWEN IFILL: Are you suggesting that you are convinced that there was a state sponsor behind 9/11?

SEN. BOB GRAHAM: I think there is very compelling evidence that at least some of the terrorists were assisted not just in financing—although that was part of it—by a sovereign foreign government and that we have been derelict in our duty to track that down, make the further case, or find the evidence that would indicate that that is not true and we can look for other reasons why the terrorists were able to function so effectively in the United States.

GWEN IFILL: Do you think that will ever become public, which countries you’re talking about?

SEN. BOB GRAHAM: It will become public at some point when it’s turned over to the archives, but that’s 20 or 30 years from now. And, we need to have this information now because it’s relevant to the threat that the people of the United States are facing today.

A little lacuna I thought I’d throw out there. Would you like to know what sovereign state he refers to? I would.

Comments

Rob,
YOu have ‘move on’ ‘obama’ ads on this site? wha?


Yun Chu said, “You must strictly not express in words what is very significant. Both dragon and snake are killed in one blow.”

Sparkie Arbuckle on August 4, 2008 at 09:46 pm

Oh boy; another 9/11 truther nut job.


Check out:
Goon’s North Dakota Red Neck
Goon’s World

goon on August 5, 2008 at 01:37 am

spark, it is called free speech, and Rob does not quash it as the Dems and other socialists do.

Goon, he is correct. We have only smashed 2 of the governmental sponsors of terrorism. Although Afghanistan under the Taliwackers was hardly a government, they were a major facilitator of terrorist cells operating in Africa, Europe and America, not to mention Indonesia, Thailand and the Philippines.

Of those remaining, not all are in the Middle East.


Una Salus Victus Nullam Sperare Salutem

2Hotel9 on August 5, 2008 at 04:24 am

So is one of them Saudi Arabia?


Check out:
Goon’s North Dakota Red Neck
Goon’s World

goon on August 5, 2008 at 05:28 am

Ding, ding, ding.

With the fall of the House of Saud there will be a blood bath of biblical proportions.


Una Salus Victus Nullam Sperare Salutem

2Hotel9 on August 5, 2008 at 05:48 am

With the fall of the House of Saud there will be a blood bath of biblical proportions.

I wonder who’s side Georgie-Peorgie-Puddin’-n-Pie will be fighting on?
bush_kiss.jpg


Yun Chu said, “You must strictly not express in words what is very significant. Both dragon and snake are killed in one blow.”

Sparkie Arbuckle on August 5, 2008 at 06:27 am

Or it’ll turn out to be Israel and we’ll all look like asses.

Remember the USS Liberty!


Yun Chu said, “You must strictly not express in words what is very significant. Both dragon and snake are killed in one blow.”

Sparkie Arbuckle on August 5, 2008 at 06:28 am

...we need to have this information now because it’s relevant to the threat that the people of the United States are facing today.

At least we have it on the record that a senior Democrat acknowledges that the US still faces the threat of another terrorist attack.


“Poverty of goods is easily cured; poverty of the mind is irreparable.”

Bat One on August 5, 2008 at 06:44 am

Bat One
Too bad our government won’t tell us what country this is.


Yun Chu said, “You must strictly not express in words what is very significant. Both dragon and snake are killed in one blow.”

Sparkie Arbuckle on August 5, 2008 at 06:58 am

terrorist cells operating in Africa, Europe and America, not to mention Indonesia, Thailand and the Philippines

Thailand doesn’t get much press, but I understand they have some significant Islamic extremist presence in the rural areas. I hope we can address it without another ’Phoenix Program‘. Once that sort of shit begins again, we’ve lost.


Yun Chu said, “You must strictly not express in words what is very significant. Both dragon and snake are killed in one blow.”

Sparkie Arbuckle on August 5, 2008 at 07:40 am

Sparkie,

I assume that your implied accusation of Israeli complicity in the 9-11 terrorist attacks is backed by something more substantial than your good looks and boyish charm.

As for the USS Liberty, even if you had access to the NSA tapes and transcripts of that incident, your current reference is totally irrelevant in any case.


“Poverty of goods is easily cured; poverty of the mind is irreparable.”

Bat One on August 5, 2008 at 07:47 am

Sparkie,

The Wikipedia entry for the Phoenix Program to which you refer above is nowhere near as fact-based as you appear to believe.

That aside, I wonder what exactly was the point of your comment, or this post, in the first place?  Disparaging what is or has been done has its place, to be sure, but doing so on a regular basis without offering any sort of viable alternative course of action usually devolves into a predictably childish pissing contest and damn little else.  Someone with your intellectual capability ought to be able to come up with something more substantive than a steady diet of snark.


“Poverty of goods is easily cured; poverty of the mind is irreparable.”

Bat One on August 5, 2008 at 08:19 am

what exactly was the point of your comment, or this post, in the first place?

That the parties responsible for 9/11 have not been revealed to the American public sufficiently yet. That’s the point.

Also, in regard to the Phoenix Program… I have heard a talk by a former member of the CIA who worked on that ‘project’ and in Thailand just before that ‘project’. I have no delusions about what went on.


Yun Chu said, “You must strictly not express in words what is very significant. Both dragon and snake are killed in one blow.”

Sparkie Arbuckle on August 5, 2008 at 09:33 am

Sparkie,

Your comments do nothing so much as illustrate the sheer stupidity of those on the Left toward the question of Islamist terrorism.  Instead of focusing on hunting down and eliminating that “current generation of terrorists” Graham publicly acknowledges, you focus on decrying just such a program from 40 years ago, and the fact that the American public has purportedly not yet been appraised of those countries who aided or facilitated the 9-11 attacks, while intimating, stupidly, that the Israelis were somehow involved.

In case it has escaped your attention, treating terrorism as a law enforcement problem was tried by the Clinton administration.  The results could be most charitably described as lackluster.

Negotiation or “constructive engagement” with an individual who views his own death in instigating the deaths of others as glorious is nowhere near as effective as putting a bullet in his fu**ing head… before he kills someone else on his way to martyrdom.


“Poverty of goods is easily cured; poverty of the mind is irreparable.”

Bat One on August 5, 2008 at 10:26 am

Bat one
You offer nothing but innuendo. I do not know what countries Graham is referring to. That is the entire point of this post. If I had to rank suspects, I would put Saudi Arabia and Israel high on the list. They both have motives, as far as I am concerned.
My mention of ‘Project Phoenix’ is not errant, as you accuse. We were in Vietnam and Thailand in the 50s, doing surveys and gaging the commie presence there. What we found was that among the poor, rural populations communism had the support of somewhere between 70 and 80 percent. This information was suppressed. With it, we never would have engaged in such a long, expensive, and foolish war. ‘Project Phoenix’ was an early effort to identify and eradicate communists in the rural areas of Vietnam. It was part of the beginning of a misguided war that the US engaged in on a lack of proper information which the government knew and was intentionally suppressed.
In the context of not being told who the state actors involved in 9/11 are, it is perfectly relevant. Who knows what they don’t know? No one.


Yun Chu said, “You must strictly not express in words what is very significant. Both dragon and snake are killed in one blow.”

Sparkie Arbuckle on August 5, 2008 at 10:37 am

You offer nothing but innuendo.

Sparkie,

Coming from you, that’s funny!

As for the Phoenix Project, neither the history lesson nor your miscast description of the motivation behind the project are necessary.  I had some experience with it back in the late 1960s and see no reason to second guess those activities.


“Poverty of goods is easily cured; poverty of the mind is irreparable.”

Bat One on August 5, 2008 at 10:49 am
Avatar for HG

Sparkie,

What good would it do to reveal other government[s] sponsoring terrorists, specifically those involved in 9/11?  The left would do little to nothing about it except maybe find some way to link it to a tax hike.  The funny thing is that Bush listed the axis of evil and liberals had a fit.  Now you demand to know who these rouge states are?  You people couldn’t be more easily confused.

HG on August 5, 2008 at 10:53 am

You people couldn’t be more easily confused.

HG,

Don’t bet on that!  Just try economic policy and taxes if you want to see real, weapons grade confusion.


“Poverty of goods is easily cured; poverty of the mind is irreparable.”

Bat One on August 5, 2008 at 10:56 am

I laid out my motivations here.


Yun Chu said, “You must strictly not express in words what is very significant. Both dragon and snake are killed in one blow.”

Sparkie Arbuckle on August 5, 2008 at 11:04 am

Well, we know some of them:

Iran, Iraq, Syria, Russia, China.


For the first time in my adult life, I am ashamed of my country.

Kenny on August 5, 2008 at 12:55 pm
Avatar for Ken

Good post, Sparkie.

What good would it do to reveal other government[s] sponsoring terrorists, specifically those involved in 9/11?

So you don’t want to know all the parties involved in 9/11? If Americans don’t have the facts, how can they determine a foreign policy to support?

The left would do little to nothing about it except maybe find some way to link it to a tax hike.  The funny thing is that Bush listed the axis of evil and liberals had a fit.  Now you demand to know who these rouge states are?  You people couldn’t be more easily confused.

I’m not a leftie and I would like to know the truth. You mistakingly assume that it is only those on the left that demand greater clarity. Plus, it’s unfair to lump Sparkie in with “you people” as I can’t recall him ever advocating for tax hikes or throwing a fit about the “axis of evil” classification.

In case it has escaped your attention, treating terrorism as a law enforcement problem was tried by the Clinton administration.  The results could be most charitably described as lackluster.

Negotiation or “constructive engagement” with an individual who views his own death in instigating the deaths of others as glorious is nowhere near as effective as putting a bullet in his fu**ing head… before he kills someone else on his way to martyrdom.

When did Sparkie say anything about treating terrorism as a law enforcement problem? Nice strawman.

Ken on August 5, 2008 at 01:13 pm

We know for a fact that Iran’s government is a major player in international terrorism, and the political left in America and Europe is fighting tooth&nail to stop ANY action to end that.

As for your knowledge of Phoenix, or anything else involving the US military, spare us your sad sack crap. You KNOW nothing, and all you reference is Oliver Stone/Michael Moore horseshit. 

“I do not know what countries Graham is
referring to. That is the entire point of this post.” If this is true you need to simply sit down and shut up. You are not intellectually competent to involve yourself in any discussion of Islamic terrorism. Or any other subject of National Security, period.


Una Salus Victus Nullam Sperare Salutem

2Hotel9 on August 5, 2008 at 02:04 pm
Avatar for HG

Ken,

Thanks for demonstrating my point.

HG on August 6, 2008 at 10:12 am
Avatar for chris

go to youtube.com/gaftromm2

chris on September 11, 2008 at 10:03 am

So, whats your point, teenybopper?


Una Salus Victus Nullam Sperare Salutem

2Hotel9 on September 11, 2008 at 01:30 pm
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