Say Anything Blog

This is part of the reason I don’t care a bit when union jobs leave Democrat states such as Ohio and more to free states or to other countries.

In my view they have sealed their own doom.  Unions are ATROCIOUS.

Here in Indiana, we appreciate all the new businesses coming here that are being driven away from other union-above-all-else states. Thanks.

""That’s the problem with you lefties, you’re not willing to get your hands dirty. I’d suggest you roll up your sleeves.”

-Jack Bauer

Just another fine example of “government for the government by government”.  Cities are supposed to use taxpayer resources in a manner most efficient for the taxpayer.  The reality is that taxpayer resources are used for the maximum benefit of the government employees.

It’s obvious the author and everyone commenting haven’t worked for an abusive non-union employer.  One that asks you to work beyond the scope of your job without further compensation.  A boss that wastes your time and energy because you are a low wage earner that doesn’t cost him much. An employer that doesn’t hesitate to ask you to do something hazardous without providing safety equipment, but when you mention your concern dangles your job over your head, “If you don’t want to do it, I can get someone else to do your job”. So, you do it anyway, because you need the work and don’t have any prospect of other work. I have worked for employers like that. I have felt desperate for the work … too desparate to walk away.  That was before I joined a union.

I’m in three performance unions and after I joined the first one, I was shocked by the respect, care and concern I was give for the skills I contributed to a money-making business. It’s obvious you have all lead a safe and sheltered life … most likely provided by the unions in your industry creating a status quo your employers have to live up to. Consider yourselves luck for not having experienced the type of work and type of employers that the unions keep in check.

David Boylan.  People have the free choice to leave an abusive non-union employer.  This is still a free country.  There are plenty of abusive union employers too.  A person is free to choose.  Personally, I refuse to become involved with unions--too much connections with mafia and corruptions as well as killings like the UMW did.  Anti=democratic.

Communism is evil

David,

Well bless your little heart.  You joined a union so you could do the minimum amount necessary for the maximum pay while being told your “contribution” to the company is more important than the owners.  Well guess what, little fragile flower.... if you need to be unionized it’s because your skills are so common, a new arrival from Sri Lanka could do your job in half the time it takes you and with better results.  Unions are nothing more than legalized extortion and I would close the doors of my business putting my well paid employees (paid higher than industry standard) on the street before I would allow my business to be unionized.

Dave-
Unions have become bloated parasites on the back of American economy. There was a time for unions and they did some good, but that time has passed. Why should a person get paid $28 an hour to do a job that a trained monkey could do? It dosn’t make economic sense. Look at what has happend to the auto industry, airllines, government education, etc....
China and India are going to leave us in their dust and you stand there thumping your chest demanding to be paid much more than your true worth. Think for a moment of the legacy you are leaving your descendents. Today’s unions exist for their own agrandizment.

David, I feel for you.  I once had a job that treated me exactly as you’re describing.  It was miserable.  I, too, considered a different job where I could be in a union.

But when I really considered it, I took a different path.  Instead of hiding behind the union apron, I decided to improve myself.  I studied—not at school, couldn’t afford that—independently.  For years.  Within five years of making that decision, I was working a better job, that paid over six times what I was making at the first one.  It was a long climb, and there were a couple of jobs between, but I applied myself & improved my skills whenever I could.

I have to admit that even now, from time to time, my employer asks me to do something that is outside of my job description.  I don’t always like this, but you know what I do?  I do the task he asks me, I don’t snivel or whine the way you did.  I’m not so full of myself that I think I’m above these tasks, and unless they are truly aggregious, neither are you.

You’ll get a lot farther (and be a lot happier) if you stop looking to other people to solve your self-inflicted problems.

Dave,

The problem with your statement is the assertion that your employer asked you to do work beyond the scope of “your” job.  Did it ever occur to you that the job in question was not “your” job to begin with?  The job belongs to your employer, who reserves the right to change the job requirements and, if necessary, find new a new employee due to your lack of willingness to do the job provided to you. 

If you have concerns about job requirements or responsibilities, how about working those things out in your employment contract before you accept the job?  Unions are for people that lack the intelligence or work ethic to stand on their on skills and negotiate a job to their own advantage. That’s just the truth, though, you don’t have to face it if you don’t want to.

David,

It’s a shame you seek the perceived protection of a union.  A union does not protect you from anything you don’t already have the power or authority to demonstrate.  (1) You have the power of choice...not to work. This is a powerful force because if more and more people choose not to perform the job, the employer has no choice but to raise the wage or eliminate the job. But you mentioned you need the job but were concerned with safety.  (2) Thats where OSHA steps in requiring each employer “to provide a place of employment that is free from recognized hazards that are causing or likely to cause physical harm”.  But you probably knew that but maybe you were scared to contact them.  You might lose your job.  (3) Where that is where the Department of Labor steps in and provides laws for “Whistleblowers”.  The Dept. of Labor entitles an employee be made whole is they have been dishcharged, demoted, harassed, or discrimated against by an employer for excercising your rights. But I am sure you knew this too. I could go on and on about the protections afforded employees by federal and state governements.

So… Please tell me what benefit does the UNION provide you that you don’t already possess yourself?  I guarantee the union will not tell you about these powers you posess because there would be no reason to have a union.

David-

As a nation, the U.S. has been at less than 5.5% unemployment, which is generally refered to by economists as “full employment”, for as long as can remember (at least for the last 15 years).  Anyone who wants a job can get one.

So you’re not being honest when you say that you had to do something at work because you couldn’t find another job.

Are there any links to stories confirming the union’s objection to these machines?

How pathetic some of you are. 

The knee jerk reaction to dismiss and belittle someone with a different opinion or experience than yours shows how full of crap you are. I appreciate those that attempted to explain their beliefs and passions and, surprisingly, I agree with many of you. There are limits to the usefulness of unions in America. I, too, can see, in many industries, they have out lived their primary purpose and need to reinvent themselves with new purposes to stay relevant to our changing economy.

Yes, in America we do have the right not to work for an abusive employer, to quit if we want to. But, when you are just starting out like I was, when you have a family and you’ll do whatever it takes to pay the bills, your choice to quit becomes self-indulgent and creates worse problems for the people you love. You don’t feel you really have much of a choice. You stick it out doing hazardous degrading work because the only other choice is to be hungry, poor and more of a burden on society.  That’s not a choice. That’s a mandate to keep doing the work you are doing and look for better work when you can. I found better work in the form of a union job that allowed me to do the same work in safe conditions.

The world is not “I’m right and you’re wrong”. Life is not black & white .  It’s a series of grays where people have different experiences and lives. How small you become when you belittle a person’s differing life experience. Like several other writers in this blog. I have developed and gown past my need or use of unions. I’m a small business owner with me as the only employee. But, if my company got big enough to unionize, I would gladly become a signatory.

I’m done with this.  You can rant and rave as much as you want. I’d like to thank [NOT] my brother-in-law for sending me this link.

Thank God we live in America where we can all voice our differing opinions.

Both sides are partially right here. I work non-union right now; great job, great pay, great bosses, and I have no problems. I like the fact that I am treated as an asset, not a liability, because there is no threat of the union doing this or that if the management makes a mistake. However, that doesn’t mean unions are bad. They are not, by definition, bad. AMFA, if anyone has heard of it, is a great union that takes as little money as possible to perform as much work as possible, specifically against companies that, as of late, have been terribly corrupt, to the point of buying off people in the Department of Labor.

Personally, I feel that the problem is not unions, it’s union laws. For example, unions are mandated to try and protect every member from every single charge by management; that’s crap. You come to work drunk, you should be fired, not protected by the union. Even worse are government unions, where it’s tax money being used coming and going.

So don’t act like this is a black-or-white issue; the idea of unions, that a body of workers can elect someone to represent them, as a group, in negotiations, or the right to terminate their employment en masse with the caveat that none of them will return to work without the rest of the members, is neither unethical, illegal, or bad. It’s a great idea. Political pandering, by both business and unions, have created a mess of laws that destroy business and ingenuity, much the same way that taxes are necessary, but out current tax structure is punishing.

BMW.  I like your statement:  “right to terminate their employment...”
There is and should be that right to work without paying unwanted dues to an unwanted and in many cases proved corrupt and illegal union activities.

Communism is evil

David Boylen - It’s obvious the author and everyone commenting haven’t worked for an abusive non-union employer.

Assumption.

It’s obvious you have all lead a safe and sheltered life

Yet another assumption.

Can you give a supporting argument in favor of unions that doesn’t include assumptions about those who argue against?

The knee jerk reaction to dismiss and belittle someone with a different opinion or experience than yours shows how full of crap you are.

Given your numerous assumptions, it looks like you’re talking about yourself here. You are full of crap by your own words.

The world is not “I’m right and you’re wrong”. Life is not black & white .  It’s a series of grays where people have different experiences and lives. How small you become when you belittle a person’s differing life experience.

Are you reading this David?

Thank God we live in America where we can all voice our differing opinions.

Where did that come from?

You’re just ranting and raving, David.

...But, when you are just starting out like I was, when you have a family and you’ll do whatever it takes to pay the bills, your choice to quit becomes self-indulgent and creates worse problems for the people you love.

So, then, my question is this:
You were:
A) “just starting out” and
B) supporting a family…

...why?

Seriously--why did you start a family before you were established and able to properly support them?  Pregnancy is no longer a mystery--we now know what causes it, and how to prevent it (and there are lots of different ways, with varying effectiveness).  Millions upon millions of people manage to not start families until they decide they’re sufficiently stable and established.

That being the case, what makes you special?  Why do you feel entitled to more pay, better stability, or what-have-you, just because you have a family?  Why do you feel that you deserve special treatment, better than somebody else would get?  As an outside observer, I’d be inclined to give the benefit to the person who didn’t start a family until he was more secure, just because he’d shown a greater sense of responsibility.  I’d be far more inclined to trust that person with more authority and responsibility in my company because he’s demonstrated the greater ability to take a long-term view of things and make good decisions.

So, seriously, what makes you think the rest of the world should bail you out of your bad decisions?

This Davis idiot thinks he’s entitled to force companies to pay his way and make his life great because he made the CHOICE to start a young family when CLEARLY he didn’t have the skill set (or brains) to successfully do so. I didn’t even get MARRIED until I was over 30 due to gaining job experience and hence, increased pay to where I could afford a wife as well as children living in a comfortable lifestyle. Anything less than that, or anyone forcing a company to take care of THEM is selfish to the core. There is no RIGHT to a livable wage in this nation any more than companies are started for the SOLE purpose of putting a paycheck in the bank of an employee. God help this nation of pansy@sses like David who most likely vote for Democrats.

Well I am a very proud union laborer and I can say I work hard for my money! Just like anyone else on here. The part about protecting everyone,if you get caught with drugs in your system you will be let go and the union can’t do anything about it.We are RANDOM drug tested just like everyone else! Most of you that down the unions it is because you dont know jack about them you just think you do! Lets see someone come off the street and wire up a energy station anyone can do it right? alot of the work union people do is work that the rest of you wouldn’t or couldn’t do because you don’t have the SKILLS! YES WE ARE TRAINED IN OUR LINE OF WORK!

UNION LABORER -

Oh.  Well then I guess doctors, programmers, chemical engineers and scientists must all be in a union too, right?  They have skills, right?

Wait—do you mean it’s actually possible to have skills, and NOT be in a union???

Dumbass.

just like anything else, unions can go too far and take things to the extreme. this does not mean all unions are bad. for the most part, that era of union extravagance has been over for some time now. i work for i.u.e.c. i am an elevator mechanic and attended school for 4 years and passed a 5 hour certification exam to be licensed. my work is quite technical at times and we work hard. i earn a good wage and deserve every penny. over the last 20 years, the tides have shifted and the companies are slowly taking back all that was fought for in the past. companies pressure us to work unsafely and think nothing of cutting corners to save money putting the workers and even the riding public in jeopardy. OSHA notifies us before they come giving companies time to ACT as if things are done properly. good paying jobs are fast evaporating. lets not look to corporations as the all benevolent entities they may portray themselves as. the bottom line is ALL that matters to them. $28 in a city like chicago is not a outrageous wage. government wastes and steals vast amounts of money every year so why the outrage when it comes to workers salaries?  how about some outrage about corporate welfare instead. the little guy has been beaten and abused during these 20 yrs under republican rule while companies and the wealthy have thrived like never before. yet salaries remain stagnant while inflation soars. a doorman earning $25 an hour is definitely too much and i see your point as such. however, do not paint all unions with the same brush. look at the recent writers strike. they fought for and won syndication rights that were rightfully theirs. you would not expect those studios and tv stations to have voluntarily given that up though, it had to be fought for. im sure you can relate to that situation. maybe you have more respect for the writers than for the construction crew though.

I have been working for a long time. My first job after leaving home was with a security company on a strike contract in Durham, NC. Labor and management were shooting each other, yes, shooting at each other over a dispute on 25 cents per hour wage change for new hires.

Years later, delivering pizza to non-union employees of a company that was being picketted by striking UNION employees, my car got shot up and I had my tires slashed.  And some of you think that unions are good for this country????

I’ve seen union employees poke along, leaning on their brooms, or lolly-gagging around while the non-union workers bust a hump trying to keep productivity up while the slackers (union workers) shrug and say “who cares.”

Let us remember the mechanics that struck against Eastern Airlines with the express intent of killing the business. They did just that. Let us also not forget PATCO, the air traffic controller’s union that had a “NO-STRIKE” clause in their contracts. They did just that and my hat is off to (then)-President Regan (may he rest in peace) for telling them they had 48 hours to get back to work or face termination. Those that didn’t go back to work, got fired, and a lot of military reserveists got a lot of drill pay.

ehutch - $28 in a city like chicago is not a outrageous wage.

To fill a pothole it is. The wage could easily be halved.

government wastes and steals vast amounts of money every year so why the outrage when it comes to workers salaries?

It is outrageous anytime people think that they are entitled to a wasteful government job.

how about some outrage about corporate welfare instead.

Why are you changing the subject?

the little guy has been beaten and abused during these 20 yrs under republican rule

Exactly how has the “little guy” been “beaten and abused”?

while companies and the wealthy have thrived like never before.

Is this wealth a bad thing? I thought that wealth was a good thing. What are you trying to say here?

Having lived in a city that doesn’t let Unions make all the rules and one that does, I have to say that the non-union cities are better to live in on almost all counts.  When I lived in San Antonio, I was so impressed to see road work being done really early in the morning so they didn’t mess with traffic.  Things moved much more smoothly there.  In Philadelphia, a huge union city(not to mention corrupt and crime ridden), the streets department would have street cleaners out screwing up traffic in the middle of rush hour traffic.  Not that it’s just the city, PennDOT (PA Dept. of Transportation) would have “Roving PennDOT” crews cleaning I-95 and slowing traffic to a crawl at all hours of the day.  Why?  Because in order to do it at night, union wages would bankrupt the city (and take away $$ which could be used to bribe other politicians).  Union Labor = Screw the average person, get me my $$$.

I think the biggest problem with you people that don’t like the unions is you think min wage is good! you are all full of it! Min wage should have went up with everything else along time ago! Car,house,food you name it has went up more then triple but has the wages? No one should have to work 40 hours a wk and not have a dime to thier name except to pay bills! All non union wages should be higher! What about all the congress it is ok we pay them outrages,plus thier med,but older people cant get the med they need because they cant afford it!

No one should have to work 40 hours a wk and not have a dime to thier name except to pay bills! All non union wages should be higher!

Of course!  Why didn’t I think of that?  We can make everybody wealthy simply by passing a law!

How about we make the minimum wage, say, $30/hr?  That way everybody makes at least $60k/year.  Presto, change-o, everybody’s money woes are solved!

Minimum wage is for high school students working their first jobs, not the “family of four” that everybody talks about.  Less than 2% of employees in this country--about 1%, if we limit it to full-time employees, which we should--make minimum wage, and the majority of them get raises before the end of their first year.

If you’re making minimum wage later in life, it’s because you’ve made some serious mistakes.  Go get yourself some marketable skills and provide something of value, and you’ll be paid like you’re valuable.  Don’t come whining to those of us who are valuable, productive members of society and expect us to pay you more than you’re worth just because you’re too lazy to compete.