Will said, ...we’re not getting it with the Republicans controlling all branches of government.
All three? I know that the Republicans control the executive and legislature, but they don’t control the judiciary. Not even by a long shot.
And besides, we really have four branches of government. You forgot the entitlement/administrative branch that the Dems have set up.
Oh yes. “Mission accomplished”. Heck of a job, Bushie!
That mission was accomplished Willie!
You seem to be glossing over the fact that the botched occupation is what allowed the insurgency to flourish.
Yeah...I pine for the days when wars were run perfectly. Remember those days? Me neither.
likwidshoe - 07:10am on 10/31/2006
Yes, ahead of schedule. Yes, a new record. Those familiar with the history of insurgency and counter insurgency ... blah blah blah
By what measures are we “ahead” is your insurgency schedule? And really, who cares about “records”? This isn’t a high school track meet. What matters is whether we’ve advanced the interests of the US, or the Iraqis or the world, in proportion to the blood we’ve spilled and the hundreds of billions of dollars we’ve spent in Iraq.
Look at Bush’s results: Iraq is spiraling toward civil war, with secular violence, ethnic cleansing of neighborhoods, and the bodies of Iraqis who have been tortured and murdered routinely being dumped in the streets of Baghdad. On a typical day in Iraq, there’s plenty of news like this:
BAGHDAD - A car bomb ripped through a wedding procession in the northeastern district of Ur in Baghdad, killing 15 people, including four children, Interior Ministry and police said.
TARMIYA - More than 40 people were missing after gunmen ambushed minibuses travelling to Baghdad near Tarmiya, 30 km (20 miles), north of the capital, a spokesman for the Joint Coordination Center for Iraqi and U.S. forces in the northern city of Tikrit said.
NEAR SUWAYRA - The bodies of five gunmen were found in an orchard which was the scene of clashes between gunmen and the police several days ago near the town of Suwayra, 40 km (25 miles) south of Baghdad, police said.
SUWAYRA - The bodies of three people were recovered from the Tigris river in Suwayra, police said.
BAQUBA - The bodies of eight people were found, bound and gagged, in Baquba, police said. All the victims were shot in the head.
All this to topple Saddam, a petty tyrant with no WMDs and no collaborative relationship with al Qaeda. The UN Weapons Inspectors were busy verifying that Saddam had no WMDs but Bush kicked them out of Iraq so he could start his war.
Meanwhile, Iran has become dramatically more powerful in the region, having gained tremendous influence in Iraq thanks to Bush’s war. Also, Iran has brazenly moved forward with its nuclear program; it just installed equipment to allow it to double its uranium enrichment output.
And let’s not forget the NIE, which indicated that the Iraq war has been a major factor in increasing the spread of jihadism:
The Iraq conflict has become the ‘cause celebre’ for jihadists, breeding a deep
resentment of US involvement in the Muslim world and cultivating supporters for
the global jihadist movement.
We assess that the underlying factors fueling the spread of the movement outweigh its
vulnerabilities and are likely to do so for the duration of the timeframe of this Estimate.
So please stop crowing about Bush setting records and accomplishing missions. His war in Iraq has made the world a more dangerous place. Likwidshoe is correct to observe that wars don’t “run perfectly”. Wars create bloodshed, suffering, and all sorts of unintended consequences. That’s why we should try harder to avoid them. The people who attacked us on 9/11 were Saudis, not Iraqis.
Will - 05:11am on 11/02/2006
willy opines:
Rod Graves Originally replied:
Yes, ahead of schedule. Yes, a new record. Those familiar with the history of insurgency and counter insurgency ... [blah blah blah]
By what measures are we “ahead” is your insurgency schedule? And really, who cares about “records”? This isn’t a high school track meet. What matters is whether we’ve advanced the interests of the US, or the Iraqis or the world, in proportion to the blood we’ve spilled and the hundreds of billions of dollars we’ve spent in Iraq.
Looks like I shall have to begin with some remedial education.
1. Ahead of schedule in that the overall trend of successfully insurgent operations (against both coalition and Iraqi forces) is on the decline. Ahead of schedule in that al Qaeda reports that their effectiveness and influence are on the wane.
2. Records. The “record” is less important than the historical context, which you both lack and handwave at. Anyone who would expect an insurgency to be defeated in less than 5, given that the “record” on the short end is seven years, years is a fool, an ignoramus, or both. Which best fits willies postings here is left as an exercise for the reader.
3. Goals. Given that there have been no further successful attacks by al Qaeda and affiliated groups within the United States, that constitutes either a phenomenally low probability coincidence, or demonstrates the effectiveness of the Bush Doctrine.
4. Costs. I’d far rather piss away treasure than blood, and when blood must be shed, I’d prefer that price to be paid by the professionals who have volunteered to take that risk and when necessary, pay that price. Your obvious preference to collect that blood price from innocent civilians does not reflect well on you.
As regards the rest of your post, I reward it’s demonstrated ignorance by ignoring it.
Will said, ...we’re not getting it with the Republicans controlling all branches of government.
All three? I know that the Republicans control the executive and legislature, but they don’t control the judiciary. Not even by a long shot.
And besides, we really have four branches of government. You forgot the entitlement/administrative branch that the Dems have set up.
Oh yes. “Mission accomplished”. Heck of a job, Bushie!
That mission was accomplished Willie!
You seem to be glossing over the fact that the botched occupation is what allowed the insurgency to flourish.
Yeah...I pine for the days when wars were run perfectly. Remember those days? Me neither.
By what measures are we “ahead” is your insurgency schedule? And really, who cares about “records”? This isn’t a high school track meet. What matters is whether we’ve advanced the interests of the US, or the Iraqis or the world, in proportion to the blood we’ve spilled and the hundreds of billions of dollars we’ve spent in Iraq.
Look at Bush’s results: Iraq is spiraling toward civil war, with secular violence, ethnic cleansing of neighborhoods, and the bodies of Iraqis who have been tortured and murdered routinely being dumped in the streets of Baghdad. On a typical day in Iraq, there’s plenty of news like this:
All this to topple Saddam, a petty tyrant with no WMDs and no collaborative relationship with al Qaeda. The UN Weapons Inspectors were busy verifying that Saddam had no WMDs but Bush kicked them out of Iraq so he could start his war.
Meanwhile, Iran has become dramatically more powerful in the region, having gained tremendous influence in Iraq thanks to Bush’s war. Also, Iran has brazenly moved forward with its nuclear program; it just installed equipment to allow it to double its uranium enrichment output.
And let’s not forget the NIE, which indicated that the Iraq war has been a major factor in increasing the spread of jihadism:
So please stop crowing about Bush setting records and accomplishing missions. His war in Iraq has made the world a more dangerous place. Likwidshoe is correct to observe that wars don’t “run perfectly”. Wars create bloodshed, suffering, and all sorts of unintended consequences. That’s why we should try harder to avoid them. The people who attacked us on 9/11 were Saudis, not Iraqis.
willy opines:
Looks like I shall have to begin with some remedial education.
1. Ahead of schedule in that the overall trend of successfully insurgent operations (against both coalition and Iraqi forces) is on the decline. Ahead of schedule in that al Qaeda reports that their effectiveness and influence are on the wane.
2. Records. The “record” is less important than the historical context, which you both lack and handwave at. Anyone who would expect an insurgency to be defeated in less than 5, given that the “record” on the short end is seven years, years is a fool, an ignoramus, or both. Which best fits willies postings here is left as an exercise for the reader.
3. Goals. Given that there have been no further successful attacks by al Qaeda and affiliated groups within the United States, that constitutes either a phenomenally low probability coincidence, or demonstrates the effectiveness of the Bush Doctrine.
4. Costs. I’d far rather piss away treasure than blood, and when blood must be shed, I’d prefer that price to be paid by the professionals who have volunteered to take that risk and when necessary, pay that price. Your obvious preference to collect that blood price from innocent civilians does not reflect well on you.
As regards the rest of your post, I reward it’s demonstrated ignorance by ignoring it.
Disputant, educate thyself.
Out Here
Rodney Graves