If citizens are to be denied the right to protect themselves in a given area, such as a college campus, should not those doing the denying then be responsible for the repercussions?
That’s a decent argument to make if school security fails to adequately protect you and you wanted to get some cash out of the school. Perhaps people will make that argument and the money squeeze will cause schools to rethink their policies.
Hairy Polemic - 09:04am on 04/24/2008
When I found out that off-duty cops were carrying their guns to class in bookbags, etc., in violation of school policy, I joined in. Carried it for two years in grad school, and nobody ever knew other than those few cops I told.
Hoss - 10:04am on 04/24/2008
Actually all persons, citizens, residents, visitors,
are guaranteed a right to life in the 5th amendment to the Constitution
WOOF - 11:04am on 04/24/2008
When Americans, across the board, come to a consensus that bullying, and ridiculing those who are different, is wrong, the shootings will end.
watashiwa - 07:04pm on 04/25/2008
When Americans, across the board, come to a consensus that bullying, and ridiculing those who are different, is wrong, the shootings will end.
This is an excuse.
I would expect to hear this exact excuse out of the mouth of a shooter.
Bullying and ridicule does not excuse murder.
likwidshoe - 07:04pm on 04/25/2008
When Americans, across the board, come to a consensus that bullying, and ridiculing those who are different, is wrong, the shootings will end.
That’s b.s. I was bullied and ridiculed as were others during my primary school days and none of us ever thought to shoot someone (and yes, guns were readily available as they were with most families in my youthful years).
docdave - 07:04pm on 04/25/2008
Likwidshoe & docdave: Of course it is an excuse! Not everyone is alike, or don’t you know that. Some people can handle it, some can’t. When you get someone to the point where he is afraid to go to school because he is certain to be locked in his locker by some loudmouth showoff, that is terrorizing. And I believe that bullies get what they deserve. Do you really think that it is right for some jerk to get his rocks off by making your day miserable? Do I think that all those innocent people who died should been killed? Of course not. But a familiar theme that seems to resonate through the majority of these incidents is bullying or ridicule by classmates.
And those of you who say bullying is a part of growing up give credence to these actions. And as long as this attitude prevales, the bullying will continue. In many cases that may be just enough to push the victim over the edge and get rid of those terrorizing him the only way he knows: by murdering them. Like they say in Texas: “Some folks just need killing.”
watashiwa - 08:04pm on 04/25/2008
Do you really think that it is right for some jerk to get his rocks off by making your day miserable?
No, and nobody here has made any remark to the contrary.
We take issue with your opinion that wanton murder is an expected reaction to bullying.
And those of you who say bullying is a part of growing up give credence to these actions. And as long as this attitude prevales, the bullying will continue.
And those of you who say that murder is an expected response to bullying give credence to that excuse. As long as that excuse prevails, the murder will continue.
likwidshoe - 08:04pm on 04/25/2008
Likwidshoe: I stand by my remarks. You can of them what you will. All I am saying is that you can never tell how a person will react to a given situation. Therefore, why not eradicate the action before it reaches heights where a person would feel he has no other choice. Teach your children that bullying is wrong. Is that too much to ask in a civilized society?
Several years ago a Hmong refugee was resettled in Minnesota. He followed the American dream and became a prosperous business. But people were always calling him a chink, a gook, a slope. He endured this until one evening while on a hunting trip in Wisconsin, five adult white males decided to show their contempt for him by calling him racial slurs. The man, as were the hunters, was armed. I’m not really sure what happened next. But when the smoke cleared the white men lay dead. I can only assume that these men had such contempt for the hunter that they actually felt secure enough to mock a man with a loaded gun and get away with it. Bad idea. Now there are five families who have lost a loved one. The Hmong is now serving a life sentence in prison with no chance of parole. I think they should have given him a medal. The one thing that bullies have in common. They are incredibly stupid.
watashiwa - 09:04pm on 04/25/2008
Oh please.
You provide the grabbing-at-straws argument defense attorneys use when the facts are so against their client. But the facts were far more egregious:
The killer you speak of is Wisconsin’s version of VT’s Cho, Chai Soua Vang.
The shootings arose from a dispute over a hunting platform in a tree, Meier said.
Vang, who had a hunting license but not for Wisconsin, had wandered onto 400 acres of hunting grounds owned by Robert Crotteau after becoming lost. He eventually came upon an empty deer stand, which are used by hunters to better spot deer without being seen, and climbed into it, not knowing he was on private property, Meier said.
At around noon, one of the members of the group of 14 or 15 on the annual opening-weekend trip to Crotteau’s property approached him and asked him to leave. Crotteau and the others in the cabin were notified of the situation and hopped on their all-terrain vehicles and headed to the scene.
Vang crawled down from the tree stand and began to walk away. He then turned around and began firing his SKS 7.62 mm semiautomatic rifle (search) at the group, shooting at the victims multiple times.
“The suspect got down from the deer stand, walked 40 yards, fiddled with his rifle. He took the scope off his rifle, he turned and he opened fire on the group,” Meier said.
A shooting victim radioed others in the party in a nearby cabin for help. Those people raced to the scene in ATVs, but they were shot at by Vang while attempting to rescue their friends and family.
The suspect was ”chasing after them and killing them,” Sawyer County Chief Deputy Tim Zeigle said. “He hunted them down is what he did.”
Oh that poor, poor immigrant’s feelings. Surely what he did was justified by his hurt feelings.
That’s a decent argument to make if school security fails to adequately protect you and you wanted to get some cash out of the school. Perhaps people will make that argument and the money squeeze will cause schools to rethink their policies.
When I found out that off-duty cops were carrying their guns to class in bookbags, etc., in violation of school policy, I joined in. Carried it for two years in grad school, and nobody ever knew other than those few cops I told.
Actually all persons, citizens, residents, visitors,
When Americans, across the board, come to a consensus that bullying, and ridiculing those who are different, is wrong, the shootings will end.
When Americans, across the board, come to a consensus that bullying, and ridiculing those who are different, is wrong, the shootings will end.
This is an excuse.
I would expect to hear this exact excuse out of the mouth of a shooter.
Bullying and ridicule does not excuse murder.
That’s b.s. I was bullied and ridiculed as were others during my primary school days and none of us ever thought to shoot someone (and yes, guns were readily available as they were with most families in my youthful years).
Likwidshoe & docdave: Of course it is an excuse! Not everyone is alike, or don’t you know that. Some people can handle it, some can’t. When you get someone to the point where he is afraid to go to school because he is certain to be locked in his locker by some loudmouth showoff, that is terrorizing. And I believe that bullies get what they deserve. Do you really think that it is right for some jerk to get his rocks off by making your day miserable? Do I think that all those innocent people who died should been killed? Of course not. But a familiar theme that seems to resonate through the majority of these incidents is bullying or ridicule by classmates.
And those of you who say bullying is a part of growing up give credence to these actions. And as long as this attitude prevales, the bullying will continue. In many cases that may be just enough to push the victim over the edge and get rid of those terrorizing him the only way he knows: by murdering them. Like they say in Texas: “Some folks just need killing.”
Do you really think that it is right for some jerk to get his rocks off by making your day miserable?
No, and nobody here has made any remark to the contrary.
We take issue with your opinion that wanton murder is an expected reaction to bullying.
And those of you who say bullying is a part of growing up give credence to these actions. And as long as this attitude prevales, the bullying will continue.
And those of you who say that murder is an expected response to bullying give credence to that excuse. As long as that excuse prevails, the murder will continue.
Likwidshoe: I stand by my remarks. You can of them what you will. All I am saying is that you can never tell how a person will react to a given situation. Therefore, why not eradicate the action before it reaches heights where a person would feel he has no other choice. Teach your children that bullying is wrong. Is that too much to ask in a civilized society?
Several years ago a Hmong refugee was resettled in Minnesota. He followed the American dream and became a prosperous business. But people were always calling him a chink, a gook, a slope. He endured this until one evening while on a hunting trip in Wisconsin, five adult white males decided to show their contempt for him by calling him racial slurs. The man, as were the hunters, was armed. I’m not really sure what happened next. But when the smoke cleared the white men lay dead. I can only assume that these men had such contempt for the hunter that they actually felt secure enough to mock a man with a loaded gun and get away with it. Bad idea. Now there are five families who have lost a loved one. The Hmong is now serving a life sentence in prison with no chance of parole. I think they should have given him a medal. The one thing that bullies have in common. They are incredibly stupid.
Oh please.
You provide the grabbing-at-straws argument defense attorneys use when the facts are so against their client. But the facts were far more egregious:
The killer you speak of is Wisconsin’s version of VT’s Cho, Chai Soua Vang.
Oh that poor, poor immigrant’s feelings. Surely what he did was justified by his hurt feelings.