Didn’t Gray Davis nearly bring California, ostensibly the most prosperous state in the union, to its knees by installing price-controls on the energy industry?
The liberals just never learn. I notice none of the reaident liberals here have picked up on this yet. I assume they’re all pretending like big-governemt control of private enterprise doesn’t really result in this sort of thing.
Rob - 05:02pm on 02/20/2006
Rob: with "Kenny-Boy" Lay gojng to trail, surely you can remember "Death Star"? Let me remind you (and this article is somewhat critical of Davis, lest you be inclined to write it off as "liberal media"
Rob on February 20, 2006 at 8:21 PM :Didn’t Gray Davis nearly bring California, ostensibly the most prosperous state in the union, to its knees by installing price-controls on the energy industry?No. The energy price deregulation signed by governor Pete Wilson did all that.
ellinas - 07:02pm on 02/20/2006
I don’t think you know what you’re talking about, Ellinas.
Rob - 08:02pm on 02/20/2006
ellinas said, The energy price deregulation signed by governor Pete Wilson did all that.
Question: What does "deregulation" mean in California?
Answer: It means more regulations.
likwidshoe - 08:02pm on 02/20/2006
The real problem is that public utils are not part of our demand economy. Because of govt control of every aspect of pub utils, they are really a command economy, and respond differently to market forces than if they were part of a demand system. The cause and effect relationship between supply and demand in the pub util market becomes clear when you realize the diference. The usual market forces we take for granted do not work in the pub util market. We do not know the real price of energy, because it has never been subjected to the free market. The entire structure of the energy "industry" would be different if it had been under free market forces. Not as centralized, different supply setup, different pricing mechanism. Under the command system, customers are actually penalized for conservation, so don’t expect any under the present command structure.
robert108 - 08:02pm on 02/20/2006
I think that Rob and Likwidshoe are full of shit on this one. Republican governor Pete Wilson signed the energy deregulation act in the liberal state of California. All price controlls were droped in favor of competition amongst the energy providers. And yes the asswipes did compete. The competition though was as to how best screw the customer.
ellinas - 08:02pm on 02/20/2006
ellinas: Pete Wilson was a disaster, agreed, but what you believe is wrong. You can’t deregulate just part of the market, you need to free the whole thing. Your populist stuff is just wrong. Sorry you are such a victimology hound. CA was not always a liberal state, just recently. We built our prosperity by being conservative. Since the liberals took over, our prosperity has slipped, which is, of course, completely predictable.
robert108 - 08:02pm on 02/20/2006
I believe that if you look carefully, you’ll see that only the retail half of the equation was deregulated, as has been done with similarly miserable results elsewhere. With one half deregulated, and the other still under price controls, its no wonder there are shortages, price gouging, and alternatively, times of enormous profits as well.
Few things are as desperately needed in this country as a nationwide mandatory copurse in Econ 201 and 202.
Bat One - 09:02pm on 02/20/2006
Bat One: It’s also true that the govt sets the profit margin for the utils, so that conservation actually creates a smaller profit, so the util must raise its rates to make up the shortfall. I live in a community that enjoyed just that by conserving its water usage. Our bills went up. So much for govt regulation.
Didn’t Gray Davis nearly bring California, ostensibly the most prosperous state in the union, to its knees by installing price-controls on the energy industry?
The liberals just never learn. I notice none of the reaident liberals here have picked up on this yet. I assume they’re all pretending like big-governemt control of private enterprise doesn’t really result in this sort of thing.
Rob: with "Kenny-Boy" Lay gojng to trail, surely you can remember "Death Star"? Let me remind you (and this article is somewhat critical of Davis, lest you be inclined to write it off as "liberal media"
http://foi.missouri.edu/usenergypolicies/enronvcalif.html
Rob on February 20, 2006 at 8:21 PM :Didn’t Gray Davis nearly bring California, ostensibly the most prosperous state in the union, to its knees by installing price-controls on the energy industry?No. The energy price deregulation signed by governor Pete Wilson did all that.
I don’t think you know what you’re talking about, Ellinas.
ellinas said, The energy price deregulation signed by governor Pete Wilson did all that.
Question: What does "deregulation" mean in California?
Answer: It means more regulations.
The real problem is that public utils are not part of our demand economy. Because of govt control of every aspect of pub utils, they are really a command economy, and respond differently to market forces than if they were part of a demand system. The cause and effect relationship between supply and demand in the pub util market becomes clear when you realize the diference. The usual market forces we take for granted do not work in the pub util market. We do not know the real price of energy, because it has never been subjected to the free market. The entire structure of the energy "industry" would be different if it had been under free market forces. Not as centralized, different supply setup, different pricing mechanism. Under the command system, customers are actually penalized for conservation, so don’t expect any under the present command structure.
I think that Rob and Likwidshoe are full of shit on this one. Republican governor Pete Wilson signed the energy deregulation act in the liberal state of California. All price controlls were droped in favor of competition amongst the energy providers. And yes the asswipes did compete. The competition though was as to how best screw the customer.
ellinas: Pete Wilson was a disaster, agreed, but what you believe is wrong. You can’t deregulate just part of the market, you need to free the whole thing. Your populist stuff is just wrong. Sorry you are such a victimology hound. CA was not always a liberal state, just recently. We built our prosperity by being conservative. Since the liberals took over, our prosperity has slipped, which is, of course, completely predictable.
I believe that if you look carefully, you’ll see that only the retail half of the equation was deregulated, as has been done with similarly miserable results elsewhere. With one half deregulated, and the other still under price controls, its no wonder there are shortages, price gouging, and alternatively, times of enormous profits as well.
Few things are as desperately needed in this country as a nationwide mandatory copurse in Econ 201 and 202.
Bat One: It’s also true that the govt sets the profit margin for the utils, so that conservation actually creates a smaller profit, so the util must raise its rates to make up the shortfall. I live in a community that enjoyed just that by conserving its water usage. Our bills went up. So much for govt regulation.