You keep referring to Obamas’ former pastor as if it meant something.
You really should keep your posts focused on what Obama thinks and not about what other people say, because it doesn’t speak to anything about Obama.
Hannitized - 09:03am on 03/13/2008
It’s his church, and Obama’s attendance of it is a tacit endorsement of Wright’s message of hatred and racial division.
The only thing I considered when I chose how to worship God is what my church’s pastor thought about American foreign policy. It makes sense to assume that Obama is the same way, right?
Oh wait, that’s fucking retarded. Par for the course, Rob!
todd - 09:03am on 03/13/2008
Um, Hannitized, he’s the “former” pastor because the pastor retired, not because Obama is rejecting his theology. Sorry, misleading rhetoric, 15 yards from the line of scrimmage.
And yes, Todd, I will judge a political candidate based on the political views expressed and supported by his church, especially if those views reveal a view of the world completely at variance with reality, as Obama’s pastor’s are. At a certain point, political views are every bit as much a truth claim as any theological precept, and hence someone who fails to challenge these views--either by standing up or by leaving--more or less accepts them to a degree.
That’s not acceptable.
Bike Bubba - 10:03am on 03/13/2008
Did you hear the news? John McCain’s gardener is a socialist!
This isn’t good for McCain.
todd - 10:03am on 03/13/2008
At a certain point, political views are every bit as much a truth claim as any theological precept, and hence someone who fails to challenge these views--either by standing up or by leaving--more or less accepts them to a degree.
What are your pastor’s views on campaign-finance reform? You’d better find out soon--they are your views too, unless you quit!
todd - 10:03am on 03/13/2008
Did you hear the news? John McCain’s gardener is a socialist!
Does it matter what the beliefs of the gardener are?
Now ask the question:
Does it matter what the beliefs of the pastor are?
Therein lies the difference.
You might think that it is “fucking retarded”, but people pick their church based upon the beliefs of that church. Far from “fucking retarded”, it is a very pertinent point.
likwidshoe - 10:03am on 03/13/2008
Todd, there are some issues that one can “agree to disagree” about, and some that are not amenable to this approach. I could “agree to disagree” about campaign finance reform, but not about a pastor who pronounced a curse on his own country from the pulpit.
Got it? There are central issues, and there are peripheral issues. There are public issues, and there are private issues.
And for the record, I know my pastors quite well, and am very confident that we’re in almost complete agreement on virtually every issue.
Bike Bubba - 10:03am on 03/13/2008
Rob,
Get over it! Please! For your own sanity.
ollie-B - 10:03am on 03/13/2008
We are all judged, as we should be, to a great extent, by our long term, intimate associations. Since Whistler is a Christian, let us assume his church teaches white supremacy and the enslavement of all non-whites; but Whistler assures Rob he does not share those views, should Rob judge what kind of associate on his blog Whistler would make based on his promises or his more important, longer standing religious views?
When an association spans two decades, the candidate refers to his pastor as his mentor and that mentor/pastor is an anti-American racist of the worst kind, we must ask why Obama would continue that association unless he to some degree shared that pastor’s values. As to judging Obama on his public statements and policies as a candidate, are we to believe the two positions are divorced from one another, or should we suspect that he is saying one thing to get elected while believing another completely opposite thing? (I know that never happens, right?)
It is okay if Obama left such a Church and still remained personal friends, with this oddball ‘uncle’ figure, then we would know by his actions he divorced himself from what the pastor taught. But, to remain under that pastor’s teaching and not, at that time, divorce himself from the church’s teachings must cause us to believe he shares those views today.
Neiman - 10:03am on 03/13/2008
If John McCain went to a church where the Reverend was a Klan leader I think Todd and Hannitized would care.
And they should care, if that were true.
One way of judging a person’s character and personality is to look at who they choose to associate themselves with. If you belong to a some radical group (and I think this church, which Obama still attends) qualifies as such, then you’re going to be judged by that association.
That may be inconvenient for Obama’s liberal supporters, but it’s true none-the-less.
You keep referring to Obamas’ former pastor as if it meant something.
You really should keep your posts focused on what Obama thinks and not about what other people say, because it doesn’t speak to anything about Obama.
Oh wait, that’s fucking retarded. Par for the course, Rob!
Um, Hannitized, he’s the “former” pastor because the pastor retired, not because Obama is rejecting his theology. Sorry, misleading rhetoric, 15 yards from the line of scrimmage.
And yes, Todd, I will judge a political candidate based on the political views expressed and supported by his church, especially if those views reveal a view of the world completely at variance with reality, as Obama’s pastor’s are. At a certain point, political views are every bit as much a truth claim as any theological precept, and hence someone who fails to challenge these views--either by standing up or by leaving--more or less accepts them to a degree.
That’s not acceptable.
Did you hear the news? John McCain’s gardener is a socialist!
This isn’t good for McCain.
Did you hear the news? John McCain’s gardener is a socialist!
Does it matter what the beliefs of the gardener are?
Now ask the question:
Does it matter what the beliefs of the pastor are?
Therein lies the difference.
You might think that it is “fucking retarded”, but people pick their church based upon the beliefs of that church. Far from “fucking retarded”, it is a very pertinent point.
Todd, there are some issues that one can “agree to disagree” about, and some that are not amenable to this approach. I could “agree to disagree” about campaign finance reform, but not about a pastor who pronounced a curse on his own country from the pulpit.
Got it? There are central issues, and there are peripheral issues. There are public issues, and there are private issues.
And for the record, I know my pastors quite well, and am very confident that we’re in almost complete agreement on virtually every issue.
Rob,
Get over it! Please! For your own sanity.
We are all judged, as we should be, to a great extent, by our long term, intimate associations. Since Whistler is a Christian, let us assume his church teaches white supremacy and the enslavement of all non-whites; but Whistler assures Rob he does not share those views, should Rob judge what kind of associate on his blog Whistler would make based on his promises or his more important, longer standing religious views?
When an association spans two decades, the candidate refers to his pastor as his mentor and that mentor/pastor is an anti-American racist of the worst kind, we must ask why Obama would continue that association unless he to some degree shared that pastor’s values. As to judging Obama on his public statements and policies as a candidate, are we to believe the two positions are divorced from one another, or should we suspect that he is saying one thing to get elected while believing another completely opposite thing? (I know that never happens, right?)
It is okay if Obama left such a Church and still remained personal friends, with this oddball ‘uncle’ figure, then we would know by his actions he divorced himself from what the pastor taught. But, to remain under that pastor’s teaching and not, at that time, divorce himself from the church’s teachings must cause us to believe he shares those views today.
If John McCain went to a church where the Reverend was a Klan leader I think Todd and Hannitized would care.
And they should care, if that were true.
One way of judging a person’s character and personality is to look at who they choose to associate themselves with. If you belong to a some radical group (and I think this church, which Obama still attends) qualifies as such, then you’re going to be judged by that association.
That may be inconvenient for Obama’s liberal supporters, but it’s true none-the-less.