So what Obama is telling us now is that he’s already made up his mind on his Iraq policy…
That’s right...he wants to end the war. The hint I got was his comment “I am absolutely committed to ending the war.”
And that his previous comments about “refining” his stance after a visit to the country weren’t really meant to imply any refinement at all?
I’d include timing and speed of withdrawal, redeployment plans, leaving observers/trainers/whatever in place or not, etc. as details subject to refinement.
I recognise that spinning is part of the electoral game and that all parties spend way too much time doing it but if this identification of alleged “flip flopping” on Obama’s part is representative of the current Republican efforts then the GOP must really feel up against it. I also think that those who genuinely and honestly believe that a flip flop has occurred are the same people who believe that Obama’s position has been a precipitous and immediate withdrawal from Iraq with no regard to the conditions and to the safety of the American troops.
In short...it’s a pretty lame claim IMO and it doesn’t credit the public with much intelligence.
MikeAdamson - 01:07pm on 07/05/2008
right on, Mike, right on!
Puzzlefeet - 02:07pm on 07/05/2008
Let’s see here. Obama has no pertinent experience, no record of accomplishment, no noteworthy achievements to point to, has essentially done nothing, nor has he ever run any sort of an organization for any period of time with any meaningful success. The list of his mentors and closest personal advisors starts with Jeremiah “God Damn America” Wright.
And now we are informed that what he says is not to be taken seriously. That his word is to be counted as worthless. His policy positions on virtually every major issue raised thus far in the campaign have been altered or subject to revision, depending, presumably on who his audience happens to be at the time. And this is a young man who thinks he’s prepared to be president of the United States?
What this tells me is that Obama really doesn’t have a clue what he thinks or what he believes. And just like every other hack politician from what is arguably the most corrupt city in the country, young Mr. Obama is not accustomed to having people actually examine what he says and hold him to account for it. Instead, he is so used to doing what his masters in City Hall and Springfield tell him to do, he simply doesn’t know how to respond to voters who aren’t already bought and paid for.
Bat One - 03:07pm on 07/05/2008
It’s nice to see the public becoming so mistrustful. Refine does not mean a stance change. He has always planned to leave up to 100,000 troupes in Iraq for “advisory and protection purposes”.
There are a large number of people giving him heck about his FISA support in his blog at barackobama.com
Since he and Hillary have been spending some quality time, look for a number of his positions to soften. McCain with a different name.
ews48 - 03:07pm on 07/05/2008
ews48,
The picture you paint isn’t of a man of character and principle, as Obama and several others have variously described him, but a man of expediency and dishonest opportunism.
Either the man is essentially devoid of character and principles, or his latest moves toward the center are little more than a callous, cynical attempt to obfuscate his true leftwing beliefs from the general election voters in an effort not to scare away those moderate and uncommitted voters who will be needed to win in November. Question is, who exactly is the real Barack Obama?
Bat One - 04:07pm on 07/05/2008
Question is, who exactly is the real Barack Obama?
Bat One on July 5, 2008 at 04:02 pm
Answer is, if you don’t know by now you will never know. You will be stuck in neverland and wonder what the hell happened.
Look B1 examine him all you want. It matters not because you and your likewise thinking conservatives were/are never going to vote for as you say “young Mr. Obama.”
ellinas - 04:07pm on 07/05/2008
Hey, Ellinas, you forgot to add that Obama is a Muslim in disguise, who wants us to lose in Iraq; wants all the women in the US to wear Burkas; is an enemy of the United States; supports terrorism in the US, is a flipflopper, who also hates our troops; is a racist, marxist, lightworker, who really isn’t a citizen of the US; is the messiah for the left who was taught in a Madrassa in Indonesia.
Wow, sorry about the runon sentence.
Puzzlefeet - 07:07pm on 07/05/2008
B1
Obama has no pertinent experience, no record of accomplishment, no noteworthy achievements to point to, has essentially done nothing, nor has he ever run any sort of an organization for any period of time with any meaningful success.
Just to show that I’m not a total hack, I think Bat’s summary as quoted is quite fair. The fact that McCain hasn’t accomplished much politically may render the point moot however. Obama is fortunate to be running at this time in history...the Republican tide is at the lowest of ebbs and the electorate seems to want a sweeping change. Obama may turn out to be a revelation or he may turn out to be a politician who talks a good enough game to capitalise on the desire for change and ends up doing zip as President.
I doubt that anyone really knows which way that will go.
MikeAdamson - 07:07pm on 07/05/2008
Wow, sorry about the runon sentence.
Puzzle,
You should instead apologize for a truly pitiful attempt at sarcasm. Whatever your life’s true calling might be… clearly this ain’t it.
Perhaps if you stopped kidding yourself that you’re still an adolescent, and instead started acting the part of a grown-up? Your floundering attempt at sharp repartee does nothing but prove my point that there is virtually nothing defensible about the Obama candidacy.
Bat One - 07:07pm on 07/05/2008
Mike,
What a pity that your intellectual integrity is so precious among those on the Left.
That’s right...he wants to end the war. The hint I got was his comment “I am absolutely committed to ending the war.”
I’d include timing and speed of withdrawal, redeployment plans, leaving observers/trainers/whatever in place or not, etc. as details subject to refinement.
I recognise that spinning is part of the electoral game and that all parties spend way too much time doing it but if this identification of alleged “flip flopping” on Obama’s part is representative of the current Republican efforts then the GOP must really feel up against it. I also think that those who genuinely and honestly believe that a flip flop has occurred are the same people who believe that Obama’s position has been a precipitous and immediate withdrawal from Iraq with no regard to the conditions and to the safety of the American troops.
In short...it’s a pretty lame claim IMO and it doesn’t credit the public with much intelligence.
right on, Mike, right on!
Let’s see here. Obama has no pertinent experience, no record of accomplishment, no noteworthy achievements to point to, has essentially done nothing, nor has he ever run any sort of an organization for any period of time with any meaningful success. The list of his mentors and closest personal advisors starts with Jeremiah “God Damn America” Wright.
And now we are informed that what he says is not to be taken seriously. That his word is to be counted as worthless. His policy positions on virtually every major issue raised thus far in the campaign have been altered or subject to revision, depending, presumably on who his audience happens to be at the time. And this is a young man who thinks he’s prepared to be president of the United States?
What this tells me is that Obama really doesn’t have a clue what he thinks or what he believes. And just like every other hack politician from what is arguably the most corrupt city in the country, young Mr. Obama is not accustomed to having people actually examine what he says and hold him to account for it. Instead, he is so used to doing what his masters in City Hall and Springfield tell him to do, he simply doesn’t know how to respond to voters who aren’t already bought and paid for.
It’s nice to see the public becoming so mistrustful. Refine does not mean a stance change. He has always planned to leave up to 100,000 troupes in Iraq for “advisory and protection purposes”.
There are a large number of people giving him heck about his FISA support in his blog at barackobama.com
Since he and Hillary have been spending some quality time, look for a number of his positions to soften. McCain with a different name.
ews48,
The picture you paint isn’t of a man of character and principle, as Obama and several others have variously described him, but a man of expediency and dishonest opportunism.
Either the man is essentially devoid of character and principles, or his latest moves toward the center are little more than a callous, cynical attempt to obfuscate his true leftwing beliefs from the general election voters in an effort not to scare away those moderate and uncommitted voters who will be needed to win in November. Question is, who exactly is the real Barack Obama?
Question is, who exactly is the real Barack Obama?
Bat One on July 5, 2008 at 04:02 pm
Answer is, if you don’t know by now you will never know. You will be stuck in neverland and wonder what the hell happened.
Look B1 examine him all you want. It matters not because you and your likewise thinking conservatives were/are never going to vote for as you say “young Mr. Obama.”
Hey, Ellinas, you forgot to add that Obama is a Muslim in disguise, who wants us to lose in Iraq; wants all the women in the US to wear Burkas; is an enemy of the United States; supports terrorism in the US, is a flipflopper, who also hates our troops; is a racist, marxist, lightworker, who really isn’t a citizen of the US; is the messiah for the left who was taught in a Madrassa in Indonesia.
Wow, sorry about the runon sentence.
B1
Just to show that I’m not a total hack, I think Bat’s summary as quoted is quite fair. The fact that McCain hasn’t accomplished much politically may render the point moot however. Obama is fortunate to be running at this time in history...the Republican tide is at the lowest of ebbs and the electorate seems to want a sweeping change. Obama may turn out to be a revelation or he may turn out to be a politician who talks a good enough game to capitalise on the desire for change and ends up doing zip as President.
I doubt that anyone really knows which way that will go.
Puzzle,
You should instead apologize for a truly pitiful attempt at sarcasm. Whatever your life’s true calling might be… clearly this ain’t it.
Perhaps if you stopped kidding yourself that you’re still an adolescent, and instead started acting the part of a grown-up? Your floundering attempt at sharp repartee does nothing but prove my point that there is virtually nothing defensible about the Obama candidacy.
Mike,
What a pity that your intellectual integrity is so precious among those on the Left.