While I can understand why some might think a trip to a Caribbean island would be a “vacation”, I give you my word that we spent our time listening, learning and building a freindship with a newly elected government (including a meeting with the country’s prime minister.)
Hopefully this visit will be the beginning of valuable partnerships with this nation. As I stated in the Forum story, North Dakota has made a strong effort to build alliances in nations such as Cuba and China. While I believe we should look to all markets for our products, I also strongly believe that trading with democratically elected nations should remain a priority for us. In Antigua, we have a new democracy that is looking to aggressively raise the standard of living for its citizens.
Although small in population, Antigua imports a half a billion dollars in ag products each year. Along with their own citizens, they also have many tourists annually who must be fed. It be in our best interests, I believe, to see if we can build trading relationships with them. North Dakota has much to offer agriculturally, and as legislators we have a responsibility to learn where our state can grow its markets. This is one such instance.
If we do not establish a trade relationship here, all we as legislators are out is several days away from our jobs and our families. What we are not out is a single dollar of taxpayer’s money. By making these initial contacts, it’s my hope that many other North Dakotans (both Republicans and Democrats) can benefit well into the future from this new friendship.
Rep. Blair Thoreson
R-Fargo
Blair Thoreson - 01:10pm on 10/24/2005
[...] Trackback URL for this entry:http://haloscan.com/tb/rgion/113011813414271713ND Legislators Make Perfectly Legal Trip To AntiguaExcerpt: Janell Cole writing in the Fargo Forum: BISMARCK – Five North Dakota legislators – including four from Fargo – took a four-day, all-expenses paid trip to Antigua earlier this month on an unofficial trade mission paid for by the tiny Caribbean i...Weblog: Say AnythingTracked: 10.24.05 - 1:03 pm [...]
Trackback - Powered by HaloScan.com - 01:10pm on 10/24/2005
That’s right, Ryan. Its not the legality that matters, but the seirousness of the charge.
Give me a break. This is a bunch of ginned-up outrage and you know it. It wasn’t like this was a secret trip. There were press releases and everything. These legislators traveled to Antigua, discussed ways that country and ND could benefit one another, and came back. Did some of the legislators enjoy the sunshine and atmosphere while down there? Probably. Should we prosecute them for it?
If state Dems wanted to make a similar trip I’d have no problems with it. In fact, I’d encourage it. Its a good way bring new business and money into our state.
But if you think trips like these are so wrong, feel free to advocate for legislation barring them.
Rob - 02:10pm on 10/24/2005
Rob,
It’s good to know that you support foreign governments when they attempt to lobby our legislators. Antiguans know whats best for North Dakotans - we can’t be trusted to our own devices, don’cha know.
I fully support foreign governments donating, befriending, and spending lavish amounts of money on our legislators. Because if it’s legal, it’s obviously not wrong.
Ryan G - 02:10pm on 10/24/2005
Rob,
There were no press releases from the ND representatives. Kasper denied the trip before he acknowledged it.
Forum:
Kasper and Grande said the lawmakers haven’t discussed the trip in public because, at this early stage, they don’t want to create expectations that something is going to immediately happen.
You’d think five North Dakotan legislators taking a trip to meet the heads of state of a foreign government would be news. Apparently not.
It’s fishy. And if Joel Heitkamp did what Kasper did, I’d be just as suspicious - don’t try pulling the “your team would do it too” act on me.
I want to know what kind of influence the country of Antigua has on up to seven of our state representatives. Kasper didn’t want to go public with the trip? Why? If he came out and said, “Hey, I’m going to Antigua. We’re gonna talk about stuff. See you in a week!” I’d be a lot less suspicious. But instead, it looks like he’s trying to hide something.
Ryan G - 09:10pm on 10/24/2005
Kasper denied the trip before he acknowledged it.
When did this happen? It’s the first I’ve heard of it.
You’d think five North Dakotan legislators taking a trip to meet the heads of state of a foreign government would be news. Apparently not.
It’s fishy. And if Joel Heitkamp did what Kasper did, I’d be just as suspicious - don’t try pulling the “your team would do it too” act on me.
It is news. It has now been reported in the state’s largest newspaper. All that’s left is some ginned-up outrage from partisan sources trying to make some political hay.
I want to know what kind of influence the country of Antigua has on up to seven of our state representatives.
You know about this trip, now watch how they vote. What more do you need to know? This is pretty straight-forward stuff.
Kasper didn’t want to go public with the trip?
Kasper, I’m assuming, was waiting to release information about the trip in due course. As far as I know he’s never denied making the trip, nor have any of the people who went. Yet you continue to pretend like he denied making it.
That’s pretty close to libel, pal.
This is all a bunch of hooey. Legislators have made trips like this in the past. The fact that they went to a tropical location is irrelevant. Sure its easy to cast aspersions about politicians getting a free trip to somewhere nice, but would you be as upset if they got a free strip to Siberia?
Put your faux-outrage away. Or at least save it for a “controversy” that’s a little more interesting.
Rob - 09:10am on 10/25/2005
Yet you continue to pretend like he denied making it.
That’s pretty close to libel, pal.
Libel, Rob? C’mon, you can do better than that if you want to throw around McCarthyisms. Criticizing government officials is nowhere near libelous.
Besides, it’s true. From the same article you linked to:
FORUM: “There are 500 reasons where I see potential for North Dakota to work with Antigua,” said Kasper, who when first contacted had no comment about the trip and wouldn’t acknowledge it happened.
This is all a bunch of hooey. Legislators have made trips like this in the past.
Can you provide some articles about these trips? I’d feel very uncomfortable if this sort of thing is happening all the time. There’s a reason federal officials can’t take money/gifts from just anyone, and that reason can easily be applied to state officials. I’m very much in the “stop corruption before it starts” vein of thought.
It is news. It has now been reported in the state’s largest newspaper. All that’s left is some ginned-up outrage from partisan sources trying to make some political hay.
There was no word that ND legislators were going to meet the prime minister of a foreign country beforehand - only several weeks AFTER they got back. Meeting a prime minister, engaging in trade talks? Pretty sweet, if you ask me, and something that we should know about, since they’re doing it on our behalf (even unoficially).
If Senator Dorgan secretly went off for a week to meet a few prime ministers, then came back and almost refused to acknowledge he’d gone on an unofficial trade mission on behalf of our state, I’d raise my eyebrows at that, too - especially if it was an all-expenses-paid trip like the one Kasper & co. received.
Then there’s the two other trips Kasper took on behalf of North Dakota, both paid for by sources outside of ND. I’m glad taxpayers aren’t footing the bill, but we deserve to know who’s throwing free trips at our legislators. Kasper won’t tell who paid for one of his trips, saying it was “confidential.”
If you want to continue deriding people who have a beef with politicians who accept free gifts from lobbyists, fine. I believe politicians should not be influenced by anyone but their constituents. You may be comfortable with non-North Dakotan businesses and even governments paying for free trips to tropical islands for state legislators, but it just makes me wonder where their loyalties lie.
Ryan G - 10:10am on 10/25/2005
Yet you continue to pretend like he denied making it.
That’s pretty close to libel, pal.
Libel, Rob? C’mon, you can do better than that if you want to throw around McCarthyisms. Criticizing government officials is nowhere near libelous.
Besides, it’s true. From the same article you linked to:
FORUM: “There are 500 reasons where I see potential for North Dakota to work with Antigua,” said Kasper, who when first contacted had no comment about the trip and wouldn’t acknowledge it happened.
This is all a bunch of hooey. Legislators have made trips like this in the past.
Can you provide some articles about these trips? I’d feel very uncomfortable if this sort of thing is happening all the time. There’s a reason federal officials can’t take money/gifts from just anyone, and that reason can easily be applied to state officials. I’m very much in the “stop corruption before it starts” vein of thought.
It is news. It has now been reported in the state’s largest newspaper. All that’s left is some ginned-up outrage from partisan sources trying to make some political hay.
There was no word that ND legislators were going to meet the prime minister of a foreign country beforehand - only several weeks AFTER they got back. Meeting a prime minister, engaging in trade talks? Pretty sweet, if you ask me, and something that we should know about, since they’re doing it on our behalf (even unoficially).
If Senator Dorgan secretly went off for a week to meet a few prime ministers, then came back and almost refused to acknowledge he’d gone on an unofficial trade mission on behalf of our state, I’d raise my eyebrows at that, too - especially if it was an all-expenses-paid trip like the one Kasper & co. received.
Then there’s the two other trips Kasper took on behalf of North Dakota, both paid for by sources outside of ND. I’m glad taxpayers aren’t footing the bill, but we deserve to know who’s throwing free trips at our legislators. Kasper won’t tell who paid for one of his trips, saying it was “confidential.”
If you want to continue deriding people who have a beef with politicians who accept free gifts from lobbyists, fine. I believe politicians should not be influenced by anyone but their constituents. You may be comfortable with non-North Dakotan businesses and even foreign governments paying for free trips to tropical islands for state legislators, but it just makes me wonder where their loyalties lie. It’s a very interesting controversy.
(Weren’t you up in arms about Freeh’s second-hand accounts of Clinton supposedly asking for a donation from a foreign government official? This is pretty much the same thing.)
Ryan G - 10:10am on 10/25/2005
Weren’t you up in arms about Freeh’s second-hand accounts of Clinton supposedly asking for a donation from a foreign government official? This is pretty much the same thing.
Yeah...the same thing...except that Clinton was allegedly asking for money for direct government action. And what he allegedly did was illegal.
Neither of those things are true for the Kasper situation.
Bottom line, Ryan: The Republicans did nothing wrong. And if these were Democrats, you wouldn’t be saying a thing. And neither would the Fargo Forum, I suspect.
If you want to pass a law requiring that these trips go on the books, I’ll support that, but lets not get carried away criticizing these perfectly legal actions.
Rob - 10:10am on 10/25/2005
[...] The Fargo Forum has an opinion piece up today about the Antigua trip I posted about yesterday: When North Dakota legislators take an all expenses-paid trip from special interests that might have business before the Legislature, North Dakotans should know about it. When lawmakers characterize themselves as some sort of unofficial trade team on a visit to a foreign nation, North Dakotans should know about it. [...]
Say Anything - North Dakota’s Most Popular P - 10:10am on 10/25/2005
While I can understand why some might think a trip to a Caribbean island would be a “vacation”, I give you my word that we spent our time listening, learning and building a freindship with a newly elected government (including a meeting with the country’s prime minister.)
Hopefully this visit will be the beginning of valuable partnerships with this nation. As I stated in the Forum story, North Dakota has made a strong effort to build alliances in nations such as Cuba and China. While I believe we should look to all markets for our products, I also strongly believe that trading with democratically elected nations should remain a priority for us. In Antigua, we have a new democracy that is looking to aggressively raise the standard of living for its citizens.
Although small in population, Antigua imports a half a billion dollars in ag products each year. Along with their own citizens, they also have many tourists annually who must be fed. It be in our best interests, I believe, to see if we can build trading relationships with them. North Dakota has much to offer agriculturally, and as legislators we have a responsibility to learn where our state can grow its markets. This is one such instance.
If we do not establish a trade relationship here, all we as legislators are out is several days away from our jobs and our families. What we are not out is a single dollar of taxpayer’s money. By making these initial contacts, it’s my hope that many other North Dakotans (both Republicans and Democrats) can benefit well into the future from this new friendship.
Rep. Blair Thoreson
R-Fargo
[...] Trackback URL for this entry:http://haloscan.com/tb/rgion/113011813414271713ND Legislators Make Perfectly Legal Trip To AntiguaExcerpt: Janell Cole writing in the Fargo Forum: BISMARCK – Five North Dakota legislators – including four from Fargo – took a four-day, all-expenses paid trip to Antigua earlier this month on an unofficial trade mission paid for by the tiny Caribbean i...Weblog: Say AnythingTracked: 10.24.05 - 1:03 pm [...]
That’s right, Ryan. Its not the legality that matters, but the seirousness of the charge.
Give me a break. This is a bunch of ginned-up outrage and you know it. It wasn’t like this was a secret trip. There were press releases and everything. These legislators traveled to Antigua, discussed ways that country and ND could benefit one another, and came back. Did some of the legislators enjoy the sunshine and atmosphere while down there? Probably. Should we prosecute them for it?
If state Dems wanted to make a similar trip I’d have no problems with it. In fact, I’d encourage it. Its a good way bring new business and money into our state.
But if you think trips like these are so wrong, feel free to advocate for legislation barring them.
Rob,
It’s good to know that you support foreign governments when they attempt to lobby our legislators. Antiguans know whats best for North Dakotans - we can’t be trusted to our own devices, don’cha know.
I fully support foreign governments donating, befriending, and spending lavish amounts of money on our legislators. Because if it’s legal, it’s obviously not wrong.
Rob,
There were no press releases from the ND representatives. Kasper denied the trip before he acknowledged it.
Forum:
You’d think five North Dakotan legislators taking a trip to meet the heads of state of a foreign government would be news. Apparently not.
It’s fishy. And if Joel Heitkamp did what Kasper did, I’d be just as suspicious - don’t try pulling the “your team would do it too” act on me.
I want to know what kind of influence the country of Antigua has on up to seven of our state representatives. Kasper didn’t want to go public with the trip? Why? If he came out and said, “Hey, I’m going to Antigua. We’re gonna talk about stuff. See you in a week!” I’d be a lot less suspicious. But instead, it looks like he’s trying to hide something.
When did this happen? It’s the first I’ve heard of it.
It is news. It has now been reported in the state’s largest newspaper. All that’s left is some ginned-up outrage from partisan sources trying to make some political hay.
You know about this trip, now watch how they vote. What more do you need to know? This is pretty straight-forward stuff.
Kasper, I’m assuming, was waiting to release information about the trip in due course. As far as I know he’s never denied making the trip, nor have any of the people who went. Yet you continue to pretend like he denied making it.
That’s pretty close to libel, pal.
This is all a bunch of hooey. Legislators have made trips like this in the past. The fact that they went to a tropical location is irrelevant. Sure its easy to cast aspersions about politicians getting a free trip to somewhere nice, but would you be as upset if they got a free strip to Siberia?
Put your faux-outrage away. Or at least save it for a “controversy” that’s a little more interesting.
Libel, Rob? C’mon, you can do better than that if you want to throw around McCarthyisms. Criticizing government officials is nowhere near libelous.
Besides, it’s true. From the same article you linked to:
Can you provide some articles about these trips? I’d feel very uncomfortable if this sort of thing is happening all the time. There’s a reason federal officials can’t take money/gifts from just anyone, and that reason can easily be applied to state officials. I’m very much in the “stop corruption before it starts” vein of thought.
There was no word that ND legislators were going to meet the prime minister of a foreign country beforehand - only several weeks AFTER they got back. Meeting a prime minister, engaging in trade talks? Pretty sweet, if you ask me, and something that we should know about, since they’re doing it on our behalf (even unoficially).
If Senator Dorgan secretly went off for a week to meet a few prime ministers, then came back and almost refused to acknowledge he’d gone on an unofficial trade mission on behalf of our state, I’d raise my eyebrows at that, too - especially if it was an all-expenses-paid trip like the one Kasper & co. received.
Then there’s the two other trips Kasper took on behalf of North Dakota, both paid for by sources outside of ND. I’m glad taxpayers aren’t footing the bill, but we deserve to know who’s throwing free trips at our legislators. Kasper won’t tell who paid for one of his trips, saying it was “confidential.”
If you want to continue deriding people who have a beef with politicians who accept free gifts from lobbyists, fine. I believe politicians should not be influenced by anyone but their constituents. You may be comfortable with non-North Dakotan businesses and even governments paying for free trips to tropical islands for state legislators, but it just makes me wonder where their loyalties lie.
Libel, Rob? C’mon, you can do better than that if you want to throw around McCarthyisms. Criticizing government officials is nowhere near libelous.
Besides, it’s true. From the same article you linked to:
Can you provide some articles about these trips? I’d feel very uncomfortable if this sort of thing is happening all the time. There’s a reason federal officials can’t take money/gifts from just anyone, and that reason can easily be applied to state officials. I’m very much in the “stop corruption before it starts” vein of thought.
There was no word that ND legislators were going to meet the prime minister of a foreign country beforehand - only several weeks AFTER they got back. Meeting a prime minister, engaging in trade talks? Pretty sweet, if you ask me, and something that we should know about, since they’re doing it on our behalf (even unoficially).
If Senator Dorgan secretly went off for a week to meet a few prime ministers, then came back and almost refused to acknowledge he’d gone on an unofficial trade mission on behalf of our state, I’d raise my eyebrows at that, too - especially if it was an all-expenses-paid trip like the one Kasper & co. received.
Then there’s the two other trips Kasper took on behalf of North Dakota, both paid for by sources outside of ND. I’m glad taxpayers aren’t footing the bill, but we deserve to know who’s throwing free trips at our legislators. Kasper won’t tell who paid for one of his trips, saying it was “confidential.”
If you want to continue deriding people who have a beef with politicians who accept free gifts from lobbyists, fine. I believe politicians should not be influenced by anyone but their constituents. You may be comfortable with non-North Dakotan businesses and even foreign governments paying for free trips to tropical islands for state legislators, but it just makes me wonder where their loyalties lie. It’s a very interesting controversy.
(Weren’t you up in arms about Freeh’s second-hand accounts of Clinton supposedly asking for a donation from a foreign government official? This is pretty much the same thing.)
Yeah...the same thing...except that Clinton was allegedly asking for money for direct government action. And what he allegedly did was illegal.
Neither of those things are true for the Kasper situation.
Bottom line, Ryan: The Republicans did nothing wrong. And if these were Democrats, you wouldn’t be saying a thing. And neither would the Fargo Forum, I suspect.
If you want to pass a law requiring that these trips go on the books, I’ll support that, but lets not get carried away criticizing these perfectly legal actions.
[...] The Fargo Forum has an opinion piece up today about the Antigua trip I posted about yesterday: When North Dakota legislators take an all expenses-paid trip from special interests that might have business before the Legislature, North Dakotans should know about it. When lawmakers characterize themselves as some sort of unofficial trade team on a visit to a foreign nation, North Dakotans should know about it. [...]