There is no doubt that for some people the emotional scars of war can twist their personalities, some even becoming terribly violent. It is an unfortunate aftermath of war for a few!
So, let us assume this mother is right, her son is no longer the sweet boy she raised and sent off to war. We should have sincere, heartfelt compassion on the mother, the son and most of all for the young girl and her family. I know that Medal of Honor winner Ira Hayes came back a drunk and his drinking ruined his life, all because his best friend was killed. War does change some people!
Now that my sincere compassion for everyone involved is made clear, the young man, no matter the inner demons he had to fight, has to take responsibility for his actions. The full weight of the law must cause him to suffer the just penalty for his deeds. We can consider the emotional condition of the young man, but before the law he must face responsibility for what he’s done.
This scenario is not new, we have faced it in every war, some men are of such fragile natures that when faced with the ugliness of war they become changed. It was not the war, it is not because of his military service, it is because of a flaw in his character and choices he made. Compassion? Yes! Understanding? Yes? Excuses? No!
Neiman - 11:03am on 03/09/2008
mom,
Williams told the television station that her son hasn’t been the same after serving 16 months in Iraq. She says her son had been living with her in Smiths Station, Ala., since returning from the war.
Let me tell you something.
Your wayward, piece-of-shit-scum-son was far more influenced your influence than he was by the US Army.
Stop blaming other people and organizations for your failings in life.
Eneils Bailey - 11:03am on 03/09/2008
Neiman: Sorry, friend. But I don’t recall waves of murderers, rapists and thieves returning from WWII or from Korea and blaming their service experience. Do you?
Frankly, we have become a society where something else, anything else, is always the excuse for wrong-doing.
pparets - 11:03am on 03/09/2008
Pparets: (a) I don’t recall talking about waves of anything. (b) I used the word ‘few,’ and it is undeniable that a few from every war have come home to commit acts of violence which thaey hadn’t committed before or other illegal acts like the ones you mentioned.
After Vietnam by highly decorated Marine Corps brother came back physically injured and emotionally changed, even beat his wife a round a bit for a few years. He got help and has lived a very decent life since, but it is ignorant not to understand these things happen after every war. As I said, these people had fragile emotional natures before they went, so in one way we can say the war brought out these violent tendencies and in another way, it was their weak character.
Your wayward, piece-of-shit-scum-son was far more influenced your influence than he was by the US Army.
That comment is what I wished we could avoid.
Neiman - 11:03am on 03/09/2008
Pparets: I ask you to remember that I believe we are all sinners, and looking at any man, I must in sincere thanksgiving say, ‘there but for the grace of God go I.” I believe in redemption, in forgiveness, while expecting each man to take full reponsibility for thier actions in life.
I am not willing to easily throw any one onto the ash heap, as I want to treat them as I would hoped to be treated in similar circumstances, with justice tempered by some small degree of charity.
Neiman - 11:03am on 03/09/2008
Neiman: As a Christian, I have no argument with that.
pparets - 11:03am on 03/09/2008
The sad truth for this mother is that her son is a murderer, but not because he’s a veteran.
That’s a pretty bold statement. War does indeed change people. Vietnam produced a lot of broken people. Killing is bad enough, but watching women and children get blown up in a suicide bombing. Picking up body pieces of infants in supermarkets is a life changing experience. Iraq may very well have produced a monster in this case.
Your wayward, piece-of-shit-scum-son was far more influenced your influence than he was by the US Army.
Stop blaming other people and organizations for your failings in life.
Besides being a very awful thing to say, it flies in the face of what we know. We know of no past crimes he committed before serving, and now after serving, he kills someone.
It’s almost never fair to blame the parents for a child’s decisions later in life. It would be unfair to point to the South Side Rapist’s mom and say “you did this”, but even more so this woman.
Kenny - 01:03pm on 03/09/2008
At first blush, the mothers’ complaint is a cop out and a case of misplaced blame. That being said, the experience of war can and does affect those who have gone through it—some more than others—since the mental fortitude of each of us is different going into battle, some more and some less steeled for the experience.
I would imagine in this day and age of re-directed blame and victimhood, our young soldiers are not as conditioned prior to as would the youngsters of yesteryear, where the upbringing reflected laconic stocism and moral grit.
There are a few references in book and film that describe, accurately at least for some, the mindset of the freshly-returned combat vet:
1) In the book by James Webb, Fields of Fire, Webb describes the sense of frustration and exasperation that one vet feels after being stopped for a minor infraction upon returning to the World (as the US was called by Vietnam-era troops).
What chicken-shit bullcrap—being stopped for speeding—after having spent the last year avoiding a moment-by-moment dance with death that a combat infantry tour in Vietnam entailed.
2) Chris Walkens’ similar reaction to the seemingly-inane questions by a medical orderly in Deer Hunter.
3) Guy Sajer’s self-description of his soldier-persona as a Monster of Indifference as he recounts the psychological aftermath of a young Alsatian who has been fighting on the Russian Front in his book, The Forgotten Soldier.
4) Ernest Hemingway’s depiction in ”Soldier’s Home” of one young man’s inability to adjust to coming home after undergoing the meatgrinder that was WWI trench warfare.
Also more tellingly, and I am afraid I do not have the link to this, was a study that compared the combat experience of the WWII vet versus that of the Vietnam vet.
There was a vast disparity in their combat experiences: WWII vets normally would have something on the order of 59 days of uninterrupted combat. Mind you, this was generally with a ‘front’ that could be delineated on a map with US and Brit flags on one side and Nazi flags on the other.
Vietnam, in contrast, had no real front, since the Viet Cong were disguised as villagers and merchants during the day and black-pajamaed, SKS / AK and B-40 toting Victor Charlies at night. Patrolling was a moment-by-moment waiting for a sniper or mine attack, a punji-pit lined with shit-covered stakes, a Malaysian gate that might swing out and impale you in the chest, against an elusive enemy that nickle and dime’ed your platoon and avoided a stand-up fight unless they had overwhelming local superiority.
More to the point, the average Viet vet was younger in average age (19 versus WWII’s 25) and underwent something like 320 days of uninterrupted combat at a stretch. Othertimes, troops would have their uniforms and boots rot off their bodies under the unremitting Vietnam heat and humidity.
Now, how the combat conditions stack up in Afghanistan and Iraq to Vietnam, I suppose, will require yet another detailed study by subject matter experts, but I can imagine how combat can really put the zap on your brain.
This is not to say that everyone will come back a slavering killer, but many combat veterans come back from their experience indelibly marked by it.
The concept of life will never be the same, even the sight of raw hamburger, the sound of tractor engines and treads, even car backfires bring experiences to the fore.
I do think that there has got to be a study of the psychology of combat and a way of re-acclimatizing troops coming back from a combat area—perhaps to include perhaps a 15-to-30 day mini-tour to unwind in Diego Garcia or some such relaxing, yet relatively isolated spot.
Move_Zig - 02:03pm on 03/09/2008
If my parents had named me Courtney, I would probably be a little bit crazy too. It’s a perfectly fine name for a girl, but not so much for a guy.
Daniel - 02:03pm on 03/09/2008
It sounds to me that a major part of this killers
problem is his mother. She’s probably covered his
rear his entire life and here she is again. No one made him commit this crime...not the war, his friends, his mother or anyone else. He made a viable decision to pull the trigger...no one else.
Every man in my family is a combat veteran and theres not a cold blooded killer in the group..
and my mother certainly wouldn’t have covered for them if they had become one. I wouldnt cover for my 2 sons..they need to take responsibility for their own actions.
Besides, what kind of mother names a boy Courtney?
good grief...that in itself says a lot about her.
There is no doubt that for some people the emotional scars of war can twist their personalities, some even becoming terribly violent. It is an unfortunate aftermath of war for a few!
So, let us assume this mother is right, her son is no longer the sweet boy she raised and sent off to war. We should have sincere, heartfelt compassion on the mother, the son and most of all for the young girl and her family. I know that Medal of Honor winner Ira Hayes came back a drunk and his drinking ruined his life, all because his best friend was killed. War does change some people!
Now that my sincere compassion for everyone involved is made clear, the young man, no matter the inner demons he had to fight, has to take responsibility for his actions. The full weight of the law must cause him to suffer the just penalty for his deeds. We can consider the emotional condition of the young man, but before the law he must face responsibility for what he’s done.
This scenario is not new, we have faced it in every war, some men are of such fragile natures that when faced with the ugliness of war they become changed. It was not the war, it is not because of his military service, it is because of a flaw in his character and choices he made. Compassion? Yes! Understanding? Yes? Excuses? No!
mom,
Williams told the television station that her son hasn’t been the same after serving 16 months in Iraq. She says her son had been living with her in Smiths Station, Ala., since returning from the war.
Let me tell you something.
Your wayward, piece-of-shit-scum-son was far more influenced your influence than he was by the US Army.
Stop blaming other people and organizations for your failings in life.
Neiman: Sorry, friend. But I don’t recall waves of murderers, rapists and thieves returning from WWII or from Korea and blaming their service experience. Do you?
Frankly, we have become a society where something else, anything else, is always the excuse for wrong-doing.
Pparets: (a) I don’t recall talking about waves of anything. (b) I used the word ‘few,’ and it is undeniable that a few from every war have come home to commit acts of violence which thaey hadn’t committed before or other illegal acts like the ones you mentioned.
After Vietnam by highly decorated Marine Corps brother came back physically injured and emotionally changed, even beat his wife a round a bit for a few years. He got help and has lived a very decent life since, but it is ignorant not to understand these things happen after every war. As I said, these people had fragile emotional natures before they went, so in one way we can say the war brought out these violent tendencies and in another way, it was their weak character.
That comment is what I wished we could avoid.
Pparets: I ask you to remember that I believe we are all sinners, and looking at any man, I must in sincere thanksgiving say, ‘there but for the grace of God go I.” I believe in redemption, in forgiveness, while expecting each man to take full reponsibility for thier actions in life.
I am not willing to easily throw any one onto the ash heap, as I want to treat them as I would hoped to be treated in similar circumstances, with justice tempered by some small degree of charity.
Neiman: As a Christian, I have no argument with that.
That’s a pretty bold statement. War does indeed change people. Vietnam produced a lot of broken people. Killing is bad enough, but watching women and children get blown up in a suicide bombing. Picking up body pieces of infants in supermarkets is a life changing experience. Iraq may very well have produced a monster in this case.
Besides being a very awful thing to say, it flies in the face of what we know. We know of no past crimes he committed before serving, and now after serving, he kills someone.
It’s almost never fair to blame the parents for a child’s decisions later in life. It would be unfair to point to the South Side Rapist’s mom and say “you did this”, but even more so this woman.
At first blush, the mothers’ complaint is a cop out and a case of misplaced blame. That being said, the experience of war can and does affect those who have gone through it—some more than others—since the mental fortitude of each of us is different going into battle, some more and some less steeled for the experience.
I would imagine in this day and age of re-directed blame and victimhood, our young soldiers are not as conditioned prior to as would the youngsters of yesteryear, where the upbringing reflected laconic stocism and moral grit.
There are a few references in book and film that describe, accurately at least for some, the mindset of the freshly-returned combat vet:
1) In the book by James Webb, Fields of Fire, Webb describes the sense of frustration and exasperation that one vet feels after being stopped for a minor infraction upon returning to the World (as the US was called by Vietnam-era troops).
What chicken-shit bullcrap—being stopped for speeding—after having spent the last year avoiding a moment-by-moment dance with death that a combat infantry tour in Vietnam entailed.
2) Chris Walkens’ similar reaction to the seemingly-inane questions by a medical orderly in Deer Hunter.
3) Guy Sajer’s self-description of his soldier-persona as a Monster of Indifference as he recounts the psychological aftermath of a young Alsatian who has been fighting on the Russian Front in his book, The Forgotten Soldier.
4) Ernest Hemingway’s depiction in ”Soldier’s Home” of one young man’s inability to adjust to coming home after undergoing the meatgrinder that was WWI trench warfare.
Also more tellingly, and I am afraid I do not have the link to this, was a study that compared the combat experience of the WWII vet versus that of the Vietnam vet.
There was a vast disparity in their combat experiences: WWII vets normally would have something on the order of 59 days of uninterrupted combat. Mind you, this was generally with a ‘front’ that could be delineated on a map with US and Brit flags on one side and Nazi flags on the other.
Vietnam, in contrast, had no real front, since the Viet Cong were disguised as villagers and merchants during the day and black-pajamaed, SKS / AK and B-40 toting Victor Charlies at night. Patrolling was a moment-by-moment waiting for a sniper or mine attack, a punji-pit lined with shit-covered stakes, a Malaysian gate that might swing out and impale you in the chest, against an elusive enemy that nickle and dime’ed your platoon and avoided a stand-up fight unless they had overwhelming local superiority.
More to the point, the average Viet vet was younger in average age (19 versus WWII’s 25) and underwent something like 320 days of uninterrupted combat at a stretch. Othertimes, troops would have their uniforms and boots rot off their bodies under the unremitting Vietnam heat and humidity.
Now, how the combat conditions stack up in Afghanistan and Iraq to Vietnam, I suppose, will require yet another detailed study by subject matter experts, but I can imagine how combat can really put the zap on your brain.
This is not to say that everyone will come back a slavering killer, but many combat veterans come back from their experience indelibly marked by it.
The concept of life will never be the same, even the sight of raw hamburger, the sound of tractor engines and treads, even car backfires bring experiences to the fore.
I do think that there has got to be a study of the psychology of combat and a way of re-acclimatizing troops coming back from a combat area—perhaps to include perhaps a 15-to-30 day mini-tour to unwind in Diego Garcia or some such relaxing, yet relatively isolated spot.
If my parents had named me Courtney, I would probably be a little bit crazy too. It’s a perfectly fine name for a girl, but not so much for a guy.
It sounds to me that a major part of this killers
problem is his mother. She’s probably covered his
rear his entire life and here she is again. No one made him commit this crime...not the war, his friends, his mother or anyone else. He made a viable decision to pull the trigger...no one else.
Every man in my family is a combat veteran and theres not a cold blooded killer in the group..
and my mother certainly wouldn’t have covered for them if they had become one. I wouldnt cover for my 2 sons..they need to take responsibility for their own actions.
Besides, what kind of mother names a boy Courtney?
good grief...that in itself says a lot about her.