I’m tempted to agree, but then I remember why the press has so much power to influence people. It doesn’t generate its power unilaterally, it gets its power from credulous anti-intellectuals (on the left AND on the right) who will believe anything that they read.
The press gets its power to influence because our society is composed of people like self-avowed liberals who would starve the poor people they claim to love by supporting farm subsidies, as well as self-avowed conservatives (like certain people on this board) who don’t even know what the Federalist Papers are.
In other words, quit bitching about the media and look to yourselves.
Hairy Polemic - 09:05am on 05/16/2008
In other words, quit bitching about the media and look to yourselves.
While partial true, that’s not the whole story. The real wrong of the media is the deceitful way they present themselves. i.e. If they are going to be shills for Obama, they should identify themselves as political foils instead of pretending that they are impartial journalists.
docdave - 09:05am on 05/16/2008
The real wrong of the media is the deceitful way they present themselves…
So we are operating under the assumption that the majority of Americans are too stupid to see past the deciet? Very well, I agree with you wholeheartedly.
Hairy Polemic - 09:05am on 05/16/2008
Good for John McCain.
goon - 09:05am on 05/16/2008
I’m tempted to agree, but then I remember why the press has so much power to influence people. It doesn’t generate its power unilaterally, it gets its power from credulous anti-intellectuals (on the left AND on the right) who will believe anything that they read.
True, but I think even that goes back to the media to some extent. Think of what our media became throughout the last century. Walter Cronkite telling us “that’s the way it was.”
Most Americans got their news from only a couple of sources - newspaper and then maybe radio or television - and so what those sources said was the truth. Your average Joe Sixpack (except for those of us who do it as a hobby) doesn’t have time to comb through proposed legislation or check voting records, so they trust what they’re told by sources they trust.
And this country is just coming out of an error where they trusted the media.
Thankfully, while things aren’t good yet, I think things are getting better. I was on a new media panel at a Republican meet-up here in North Dakota and one of the questions asked of me by someone who was interested in blogs was “How do you know which blogs have good information and which don’t.” I told the guy that there was no way to tell and that he’d have to trust his own judgment.
I actually think that’s a good thing. Make people work for their information. Make them think critically about what they’re being told and decide for themselves what’s true and what isn’t.
We’ll never all agree, of course, but if we’re all thinking it’ll at least be an improvement.
Rob - 09:05am on 05/16/2008
Make people work for their information. Make them think critically about what they’re being told and decide for themselves what’s true and what isn’t.
I agree with that completely. But you know, there is a good argument that blogs are contributing to the lack of critical thinking as well. Reporting news in little blurbs makes it even easier for lazy people to just accept what they read and go back to doing whatever it is that stupid, lazy people do. (Of course blogs redeem themselves by providing us a counterspin to the MSM-spun news). But the people who only read blogs while refusing to pick up the NYT, are just as bad as people who only read the NYT and refuse to look at any other sources—it makes them equally credulous.
When I say lazy, I don’t mean it in the “they don’t want to work” sense. There are plenty of hard working Americans who are too intellectually lazy to think for themselves (the majority actually). For example…
Your average Joe Sixpack (except for those of us who do it as a hobby) doesn’t have time to comb through proposed legislation or check voting records
No he doesn’t. But I guarantee you that he has time to pick up a few different sources of news and compare and contrast. Especially now that the internet makes it so easy to access info.
Hairy Polemic - 10:05am on 05/16/2008
We’ll never all agree, of course, but if we’re all thinking it’ll at least be an improvement.
You couldn’t be more right, Rob. I went to the constitutional symposium put on by SBAND last year and it featured a debate between Jefferson and Justice Marshall regarding separation of powers etc. In it, Jenkinson (Jefferson) hounded on his core principles for his view of the republic...an aggregrian society, rurality and an enlightened voting mass. Without a knowledgable base, the system sort of fails.
It is rather ironic that your clip is from Fox though, I have to admit.
Jay - 10:05am on 05/16/2008
So we are operating under the assumption that the majority of Americans are too stupid to see past the deciet?
That is certainly part of it but the press is still guilty of a deliberate attempt to influence its listeners and readers by presenting only one side of the questions. Really it would be more honest if the news would be presented as ‘paid political announcements’.
docdave - 10:05am on 05/16/2008
It is rather ironic that your clip is from Fox though, I have to admit.
It’s actually even more ironic that you’d complain about an ill-informed public and then get in a dig at the only cable news network providing any ideological diversity in the media at all.
I know it’s fashionable to hate Fox because they’re to the right of CNN and the rest that are out in left field, but what’s so bad about more perspective?
The overall media is better with Fox than without it.
Rob - 10:05am on 05/16/2008
The overall media is better with Fox than without it.
Is there any serious argument that CNN, MSNBC, or the “old” broadcast networks are more fair or more balanced in their reporting and their analysis than Fox?
My experience is that those who disparage Fox News don’t have a clue what they’re talking about because they don’t actually watch Fox News.
I’m tempted to agree, but then I remember why the press has so much power to influence people. It doesn’t generate its power unilaterally, it gets its power from credulous anti-intellectuals (on the left AND on the right) who will believe anything that they read.
The press gets its power to influence because our society is composed of people like self-avowed liberals who would starve the poor people they claim to love by supporting farm subsidies, as well as self-avowed conservatives (like certain people on this board) who don’t even know what the Federalist Papers are.
In other words, quit bitching about the media and look to yourselves.
While partial true, that’s not the whole story. The real wrong of the media is the deceitful way they present themselves. i.e. If they are going to be shills for Obama, they should identify themselves as political foils instead of pretending that they are impartial journalists.
So we are operating under the assumption that the majority of Americans are too stupid to see past the deciet? Very well, I agree with you wholeheartedly.
Good for John McCain.
True, but I think even that goes back to the media to some extent. Think of what our media became throughout the last century. Walter Cronkite telling us “that’s the way it was.”
Most Americans got their news from only a couple of sources - newspaper and then maybe radio or television - and so what those sources said was the truth. Your average Joe Sixpack (except for those of us who do it as a hobby) doesn’t have time to comb through proposed legislation or check voting records, so they trust what they’re told by sources they trust.
And this country is just coming out of an error where they trusted the media.
Thankfully, while things aren’t good yet, I think things are getting better. I was on a new media panel at a Republican meet-up here in North Dakota and one of the questions asked of me by someone who was interested in blogs was “How do you know which blogs have good information and which don’t.” I told the guy that there was no way to tell and that he’d have to trust his own judgment.
I actually think that’s a good thing. Make people work for their information. Make them think critically about what they’re being told and decide for themselves what’s true and what isn’t.
We’ll never all agree, of course, but if we’re all thinking it’ll at least be an improvement.
I agree with that completely. But you know, there is a good argument that blogs are contributing to the lack of critical thinking as well. Reporting news in little blurbs makes it even easier for lazy people to just accept what they read and go back to doing whatever it is that stupid, lazy people do. (Of course blogs redeem themselves by providing us a counterspin to the MSM-spun news). But the people who only read blogs while refusing to pick up the NYT, are just as bad as people who only read the NYT and refuse to look at any other sources—it makes them equally credulous.
When I say lazy, I don’t mean it in the “they don’t want to work” sense. There are plenty of hard working Americans who are too intellectually lazy to think for themselves (the majority actually). For example…
No he doesn’t. But I guarantee you that he has time to pick up a few different sources of news and compare and contrast. Especially now that the internet makes it so easy to access info.
You couldn’t be more right, Rob. I went to the constitutional symposium put on by SBAND last year and it featured a debate between Jefferson and Justice Marshall regarding separation of powers etc. In it, Jenkinson (Jefferson) hounded on his core principles for his view of the republic...an aggregrian society, rurality and an enlightened voting mass. Without a knowledgable base, the system sort of fails.
It is rather ironic that your clip is from Fox though, I have to admit.
That is certainly part of it but the press is still guilty of a deliberate attempt to influence its listeners and readers by presenting only one side of the questions. Really it would be more honest if the news would be presented as ‘paid political announcements’.
It’s actually even more ironic that you’d complain about an ill-informed public and then get in a dig at the only cable news network providing any ideological diversity in the media at all.
I know it’s fashionable to hate Fox because they’re to the right of CNN and the rest that are out in left field, but what’s so bad about more perspective?
The overall media is better with Fox than without it.
Is there any serious argument that CNN, MSNBC, or the “old” broadcast networks are more fair or more balanced in their reporting and their analysis than Fox?
My experience is that those who disparage Fox News don’t have a clue what they’re talking about because they don’t actually watch Fox News.