The Navy gave a General Discharge to a Navy Chaplain for invoking Jesus name in a public event, because he wore his uniform to that event. Had he been in civilian clothes he would have been left alone. I disagree that the Chaplain should ever be prevented in uniform from invoking Jesus Name if he is a Christian Chaplain; but if it is fair to punish him, then it must be fair to punish this EX-Marine shithead! Most Marines are either serving or formerly serving, as usually there is no such thing as an ex-Marine, this guy is an Ex-Marine.
Neiman - 12:06pm on 06/01/2007
The left doesn’t care if he broke policy or not. They don’t live by policy. They just want to stir an emotional riot. It’s similar to all the intelligent folks crying out the Michael Jackson wasn’t innocent...because...they liked....him. Good reason.
Jeremy - 01:06pm on 06/01/2007
For those who followed and supported the activities of the Swift Boat Vets during the last presidential campaign, this incident has an eerily familiar ring to it.
Although he has tried mightily to suppress any evidence of what actually happened, there are quite a few of us who believe that this is exactly what happened to John Kerry regarding his first, and most likely General or Bad Conduct, discharge from the Navy.
Like Kokesh, Kerry had been discharged from active duty, but still had a Reserve commitment to fulfill. And it was during this time that his very public, anti-war activities, in uniform, his Paris conversations with representatives of the communist North Vietnamese government and Viet Cong, and the Kansas City winter meetings of the VVAW at which domestic political assassinations were discussed, all took place in clear violation of military regulations.
Although I am sure that Kerry would love to further ingratiate himself with the far Left, his full Navy records will never be completely made public. Nonetheless, the Kokesh case is still an ironic echo of the Vietnam era and the earlier mis-steps of another anti-war veteran.
Bat One - 01:06pm on 06/01/2007
Jeremy. Exactly. The left: social-democrats/progressives/communists DO NOT follow rules. They take to the streets, kill innocent people, target children and numerous other behaviors documented in several books written recently.
I have some more news to a few recently discharged veterans: If you violate certain federal laws, your pension could be in question.
Chief RZ - 01:06pm on 06/01/2007
Come on now. Every enlistment is for 8 years, with only a portion of it being active (at least it was when I was in it). For all practical purposes IRR is out of the military. I signed up in 1991 for six years active and 2 years IRR. From 1991 until 1997 I had to keep my hair short, could not grow a beard or have earrings, stay in shape etc… but from 1997 until 1999 anything went. After I was done in 1997 I never really heard from the military. IRR is not the reserves or guard or anything like that. There are no drills to attend you just go on with life. IRR means you may, if times are necessary…be reactivated (most likely if you have a special skill). I have never seen that done, and I have don’t believe it has been done in this war to any extent. The back door draft refers to extending people’s active commitments longer that they signed up for, not plucking people out of the IRR
This guy Kokesh should be free to speak his mind… for or against the war. As for his wearing the uniform, if you read the article he wore fatigues with the military insignias removed. What is the difference between him wearing those fatigues or ones he bought from and Army/Navy store? I’ve worn mine to a Halloween party, is the Army going to change my Honorable discharge to an “other than Honorable” (I don’t think they are trying to get him a dishonorable discharge) one? --- I think not. Besides, he was speaking out against the war, not the Marines. As for him cussing out an officer, who hasn’t wanted to tell someone in management where to go at some point? I personally would never do that, but if I left my company and told management where to go, they still have no right to take away my 401K.
Just because, the Marine brass doesn’t like what he is saying, they want to change his discharge status. If he was truly still a soldier, why was he given and Honorable Discharge? I don’t think this is right. He just spoke his mind and wore fatigues with the military insignias REMOVED. You may not like what he has to say, but you will have to live with it. You will have to live with what I have to say, and I will have to live with what you have to say. That is what makes America GREAT.
Dallas - 02:06pm on 06/01/2007
if you read the article he wore fatigues with the military insignias removed
And that’s still a violation according to uniform regulations.
Nobody is saying he can’t speak his mind. They’re just saying that he can’t use his government-issued uniform as a prop for it. Nor can he cuss out his superior officers while he’s still got a commitment to the Corps.
Whether you like it or not, this is what he signed up for. The rules are the rules.
Besides, the left would be going nuts if they found some right-wing Marine at a pro-war rally in full uniform speaking his mind.
Rob - 02:06pm on 06/01/2007
The Navy gave a General Discharge to a Navy Chaplain for invoking Jesus name in a public event, because he wore his uniform to that event.
Neiman: Do you have any specifics on this? Not that I don’t belive you, but I would like to find out more about this.
The Chaplain’s case is different from Kokesh, because I am assuming that the Chaplain was still on active duty.
Although, I do have to agree with you that punishing a Chaplain for invoking Jesus’s name is not right - that is his job. Maybe he did something else?
Dallas - 02:06pm on 06/01/2007
Besides, the left would be going nuts if they found some right-wing Marine at a pro-war rally in full uniform speaking his mind.
Rob: Since when is free-speach a right or left issue?
Dallas - 02:06pm on 06/01/2007
Rob: The right goes crazy when Rosie talks, left goes crazy when Rush talks. Going crazy is one thing, but actually silencing someone through punishment is over the line.
What is the difference between him wearing those fatigues or ones he bought from and Army/Navy store?
You never answered this question… the fatigues at the surplus stores were government issued. Would it be a big deal then?
Just for arguement sake, or we will go round and round on this uniform thing all day, do you think that he should lose his benifits because he violated a uniform regulation (a stretch at that)? Those discharges are usually reserved for major infractions like drugs, AWOL etc… not a uniform violation. Why not just Article 15 (or whatever is the Marine equivilant) him?
Even if it was a violation, you can tell the Marines what to silence him for his views, because the punishment does not fit the crime. Apparantly he was an Honorable soldier to receive an Honorable discharge.
Dallas - 02:06pm on 06/01/2007
but actually silencing someone through punishment is over the line.
Is he being silenced? I thought he was just being punished for violating the rules of commitment to the Marine Corps.
The Navy gave a General Discharge to a Navy Chaplain for invoking Jesus name in a public event, because he wore his uniform to that event. Had he been in civilian clothes he would have been left alone. I disagree that the Chaplain should ever be prevented in uniform from invoking Jesus Name if he is a Christian Chaplain; but if it is fair to punish him, then it must be fair to punish this EX-Marine shithead! Most Marines are either serving or formerly serving, as usually there is no such thing as an ex-Marine, this guy is an Ex-Marine.
The left doesn’t care if he broke policy or not. They don’t live by policy. They just want to stir an emotional riot. It’s similar to all the intelligent folks crying out the Michael Jackson wasn’t innocent...because...they liked....him. Good reason.
For those who followed and supported the activities of the Swift Boat Vets during the last presidential campaign, this incident has an eerily familiar ring to it.
Although he has tried mightily to suppress any evidence of what actually happened, there are quite a few of us who believe that this is exactly what happened to John Kerry regarding his first, and most likely General or Bad Conduct, discharge from the Navy.
Like Kokesh, Kerry had been discharged from active duty, but still had a Reserve commitment to fulfill. And it was during this time that his very public, anti-war activities, in uniform, his Paris conversations with representatives of the communist North Vietnamese government and Viet Cong, and the Kansas City winter meetings of the VVAW at which domestic political assassinations were discussed, all took place in clear violation of military regulations.
Although I am sure that Kerry would love to further ingratiate himself with the far Left, his full Navy records will never be completely made public. Nonetheless, the Kokesh case is still an ironic echo of the Vietnam era and the earlier mis-steps of another anti-war veteran.
Jeremy. Exactly. The left: social-democrats/progressives/communists DO NOT follow rules. They take to the streets, kill innocent people, target children and numerous other behaviors documented in several books written recently.
I have some more news to a few recently discharged veterans: If you violate certain federal laws, your pension could be in question.
Come on now. Every enlistment is for 8 years, with only a portion of it being active (at least it was when I was in it). For all practical purposes IRR is out of the military. I signed up in 1991 for six years active and 2 years IRR. From 1991 until 1997 I had to keep my hair short, could not grow a beard or have earrings, stay in shape etc… but from 1997 until 1999 anything went. After I was done in 1997 I never really heard from the military. IRR is not the reserves or guard or anything like that. There are no drills to attend you just go on with life. IRR means you may, if times are necessary…be reactivated (most likely if you have a special skill). I have never seen that done, and I have don’t believe it has been done in this war to any extent. The back door draft refers to extending people’s active commitments longer that they signed up for, not plucking people out of the IRR
This guy Kokesh should be free to speak his mind… for or against the war. As for his wearing the uniform, if you read the article he wore fatigues with the military insignias removed. What is the difference between him wearing those fatigues or ones he bought from and Army/Navy store? I’ve worn mine to a Halloween party, is the Army going to change my Honorable discharge to an “other than Honorable” (I don’t think they are trying to get him a dishonorable discharge) one? --- I think not. Besides, he was speaking out against the war, not the Marines. As for him cussing out an officer, who hasn’t wanted to tell someone in management where to go at some point? I personally would never do that, but if I left my company and told management where to go, they still have no right to take away my 401K.
Just because, the Marine brass doesn’t like what he is saying, they want to change his discharge status. If he was truly still a soldier, why was he given and Honorable Discharge? I don’t think this is right. He just spoke his mind and wore fatigues with the military insignias REMOVED. You may not like what he has to say, but you will have to live with it. You will have to live with what I have to say, and I will have to live with what you have to say. That is what makes America GREAT.
And that’s still a violation according to uniform regulations.
Nobody is saying he can’t speak his mind. They’re just saying that he can’t use his government-issued uniform as a prop for it. Nor can he cuss out his superior officers while he’s still got a commitment to the Corps.
Whether you like it or not, this is what he signed up for. The rules are the rules.
Besides, the left would be going nuts if they found some right-wing Marine at a pro-war rally in full uniform speaking his mind.
Neiman: Do you have any specifics on this? Not that I don’t belive you, but I would like to find out more about this.
The Chaplain’s case is different from Kokesh, because I am assuming that the Chaplain was still on active duty.
Although, I do have to agree with you that punishing a Chaplain for invoking Jesus’s name is not right - that is his job. Maybe he did something else?
Rob: Since when is free-speach a right or left issue?
Rob: The right goes crazy when Rosie talks, left goes crazy when Rush talks. Going crazy is one thing, but actually silencing someone through punishment is over the line.
You never answered this question… the fatigues at the surplus stores were government issued. Would it be a big deal then?
Just for arguement sake, or we will go round and round on this uniform thing all day, do you think that he should lose his benifits because he violated a uniform regulation (a stretch at that)? Those discharges are usually reserved for major infractions like drugs, AWOL etc… not a uniform violation. Why not just Article 15 (or whatever is the Marine equivilant) him?
Even if it was a violation, you can tell the Marines what to silence him for his views, because the punishment does not fit the crime. Apparantly he was an Honorable soldier to receive an Honorable discharge.
Is he being silenced? I thought he was just being punished for violating the rules of commitment to the Marine Corps.
He can still say what he wants.