The one thing that could be done to improve public schools is to remove the kids that aren’t there to learn.
And do what with them? That’s not a rhetorical question. If you suggest removing those who “aren’t there to learn” you’ve got to do something with so what would you suggest?
Don’t even get me started on ‘special needs’ students! They are coddled at every level, sheltered from virtually every classroom requirement and insulated from discipline… and no one knows it better than them. “You can’t do nuthin’, I’m special ed...!”
Interesting. Is it your contention that schools would get better if the special needs students were removed or is your statement meant to be an indictment of the inadequate methods of teaching that don’t actually teach special needs students (or any other students) anything?
Samantha - 08:04pm on 04/04/2008
The one thing that could be done to improve public schools is to remove the kids that aren’t there to learn.
Even in that situation I think school choice addresses the matter. Given parents choice, and let the parents figure out what to do with the kids.
Rob - 08:04pm on 04/04/2008
And do what with them? That’s not a rhetorical question. If you suggest removing those who “aren’t there to learn” you’ve got to do something with so what would you suggest?
By the very nature of your question you’re assuming that their rights to disrupt are more important than the people that are there to to learn. I really find that shocking.
Better to educate some rather than fail everyone.
So what to do with them? I’d say have some alternative schools so if they choose to turn themselves around they have a chance to do so.
The Whistler - 06:04am on 04/05/2008
By the very nature of your question you’re assuming that their rights to disrupt are more important than the people that are there to to learn.
No that’s your assumption. I assume no “rights to disrupt.” I assume a responsibility to educate. I assume that the government having taken upon itself the responsibility of educating the population should do so. I also assume that we the people have a responsibility to make sure that the government fulfills its responsibilities (government by, for, and of the people and all). I also assume that we should make an effort to prepare every student to take part in American society.
I would argue that we already have a de facto segregation of students and we aren’t doing any better at educating them.
Samantha - 08:04am on 04/05/2008
If a person does not want to learn you can’t make them.
But who cares, thousands of other kids that would learn are not because we pretend that we can change human nature.
The Whistler - 09:04am on 04/06/2008
Whistler. I agree completely and have seen such. Samantha. Hello. Your background with schools?
I assume that the government having taken upon itself the responsibility of educating the population should do so. I also assume that we the people have a responsibility to make sure that the government fulfills its responsibilities (government by, for, and of the people and all). I also assume that we should make an effort to prepare every student to take part in American society.
Schools are funded for the most part with local taxes. The people give to the schools their money and support. There are alternatives: homeschooling (unless you live in California), independent schools, private, church and/or charter schools.
The federal government has, by its own labeling (505 being a good starting point for example) students as “handicapped” or “disabled” and have bestowed upon them extra-protections from school discipline rules. If this is the case, then the federal government should establish and fund federal schools to house and educate these federally recognized students.
Where or where do the disruptive students go: when the leave school, at night, on weekends and over the summers? Now that that is out of the way, lets address the very few who are trying to get an education. First, the above suggestion is not a good one. Our state had alternative as well as night schools. This would also take care of that “what do they do at night” problem.
Defacto segregation? Not that again. We had real integration in my town of Norwalk, Connecticut around 1961-1963 before the race hustlers got a hold of the local schools and wrecked a brand new 7 million dollar High School.
I will be glad to engage in conversations with you about teachers unions and education. May I suggest you take a look at my profile found on the link with my name first. I looked, but did not see a profile on your blog.
Chief RZ - 10:04am on 04/06/2008
How familiar are you with IDEA?
Samantha - 04:04pm on 04/06/2008
I think we’re on two different conversations here as far as I’m concerned.
I was talking mainly talking about kids that are disruptive not because of an disability. You know discipline cases.
Now there are probably a few kids with disability that are hurting the classroom. In many other cases with the extra help they get in the classroom they very well may improve it.
No one size fits all law is going to work, but by and large I’m in favor of the mainstreaming of kids with problems into the regular classroom.
The Whistler - 04:04pm on 04/06/2008
Whistler: Disruptive kids now qualify as disabled, thanks to - believe it or not - Oppositional Defiance Disorder !! I kid you not!
Kids classified as ODD [how appropriate] now disrupt, bully, threaten, curse, antagonize and assault at will, because they cannot be expelled. They are disabled!!
pparets - 04:04pm on 04/06/2008
pparets,
Interesting… sadly! A little more such “scientific” psycho-babble and every child molester, sexual predator, and psychopathic serial killer will have a ready-made defense of his actions… a liberal-sponsored, “no-consequences, “Get Out of Jail Free” pass for all future horrors perpetrated on the rest of us.
Meanwhile, the mere image of a gun on a T-shirt is enough to get a kid kicked out of school under a policy of “Zero Tolerance”.
And do what with them? That’s not a rhetorical question. If you suggest removing those who “aren’t there to learn” you’ve got to do something with so what would you suggest?
Interesting. Is it your contention that schools would get better if the special needs students were removed or is your statement meant to be an indictment of the inadequate methods of teaching that don’t actually teach special needs students (or any other students) anything?
Even in that situation I think school choice addresses the matter. Given parents choice, and let the parents figure out what to do with the kids.
By the very nature of your question you’re assuming that their rights to disrupt are more important than the people that are there to to learn. I really find that shocking.
Better to educate some rather than fail everyone.
So what to do with them? I’d say have some alternative schools so if they choose to turn themselves around they have a chance to do so.
No that’s your assumption. I assume no “rights to disrupt.” I assume a responsibility to educate. I assume that the government having taken upon itself the responsibility of educating the population should do so. I also assume that we the people have a responsibility to make sure that the government fulfills its responsibilities (government by, for, and of the people and all). I also assume that we should make an effort to prepare every student to take part in American society.
I would argue that we already have a de facto segregation of students and we aren’t doing any better at educating them.
If a person does not want to learn you can’t make them.
But who cares, thousands of other kids that would learn are not because we pretend that we can change human nature.
Whistler. I agree completely and have seen such. Samantha. Hello. Your background with schools?
Schools are funded for the most part with local taxes. The people give to the schools their money and support. There are alternatives: homeschooling (unless you live in California), independent schools, private, church and/or charter schools.
The federal government has, by its own labeling (505 being a good starting point for example) students as “handicapped” or “disabled” and have bestowed upon them extra-protections from school discipline rules. If this is the case, then the federal government should establish and fund federal schools to house and educate these federally recognized students.
Where or where do the disruptive students go: when the leave school, at night, on weekends and over the summers? Now that that is out of the way, lets address the very few who are trying to get an education. First, the above suggestion is not a good one. Our state had alternative as well as night schools. This would also take care of that “what do they do at night” problem.
Defacto segregation? Not that again. We had real integration in my town of Norwalk, Connecticut around 1961-1963 before the race hustlers got a hold of the local schools and wrecked a brand new 7 million dollar High School.
I will be glad to engage in conversations with you about teachers unions and education. May I suggest you take a look at my profile found on the link with my name first. I looked, but did not see a profile on your blog.
How familiar are you with IDEA?
I think we’re on two different conversations here as far as I’m concerned.
I was talking mainly talking about kids that are disruptive not because of an disability. You know discipline cases.
Now there are probably a few kids with disability that are hurting the classroom. In many other cases with the extra help they get in the classroom they very well may improve it.
No one size fits all law is going to work, but by and large I’m in favor of the mainstreaming of kids with problems into the regular classroom.
Whistler: Disruptive kids now qualify as disabled, thanks to - believe it or not - Oppositional Defiance Disorder !! I kid you not!
Kids classified as ODD [how appropriate] now disrupt, bully, threaten, curse, antagonize and assault at will, because they cannot be expelled. They are disabled!!
pparets,
Interesting… sadly! A little more such “scientific” psycho-babble and every child molester, sexual predator, and psychopathic serial killer will have a ready-made defense of his actions… a liberal-sponsored, “no-consequences, “Get Out of Jail Free” pass for all future horrors perpetrated on the rest of us.
Meanwhile, the mere image of a gun on a T-shirt is enough to get a kid kicked out of school under a policy of “Zero Tolerance”.