As much as I despise the NEA and the “factory school” model rightly decried by John Taylor Gatto, I cannot saddle them with all of the blame here for a very simple reason; there are an awful lot of asian kids coming out of those inner city schools with their diplomas. Somehow they negotiate the gauntlet.
I would suggest that the reason some survive, and others don’t--and a big portion of the difference between suburban and urban school districts--lies in the fact that suburban children--and those of asian parents--are more likely to come from intact homes where work and achievement are valued.
This probably dwarfs the negative contribution of the NEA and even the DoEd--and of course, that’s not exactly an argument for the big budget increases desired by the teachers’ unions, either.
Bike Bubba - 10:04am on 04/04/2008
I see your point, Bubba, but think you give it entirely too much credit.
Instances where school choice has been implemented (see: the choice program instituted in Florida under Jeb Bush) saw incredible gains in test scores among all demographics for children who qualified for the program.
Now, the increase in scores was different among the various demographics (blacks and hispanics saw the most growth, whites and Asians saw the least) so that’s probably where parenting plays a role.
I would say that parenting vs. schooling are about of even importance. But there’s only one of those two things we can fix directly with public policy.
Rob - 11:04am on 04/04/2008
Could it be that many poor inner city neighborhoods are factories for a culture of ignorance, family degradation and dysfunction from children to the elected school board officials?
M. York - 04:04pm on 04/04/2008
Inner-city public school educators deal with chronic truancy, disinterested, even hostile parents, bloated district bureaucracies, lethargic, uninterested students, aging buildings, chronic shortages of supplies and equipment, drugs, guns, violence and massive public disinterest. They see their union - often the AFT, not the NEA - as the only sympathetic force in their classroom, and usually it is!
Inner-city private and parochial teachers are blessed with that most important resource, interested, supportive parents. BTW, in most cities, faculties at these schools are also unionized.
pparets - 04:04pm on 04/04/2008
What you say is true PP, but then I hear the same stuff about our local and fairly high achieving school. In a lot of cases it’s a cop out by the school systems to explain their failures.
The one thing that could be done to improve public schools is to remove the kids that aren’t there to learn. That’s harsh, but then why should kids that want to learn be denied that right to cater to kids that just want to disrupt things?
The Whistler - 06:04pm on 04/04/2008
Whistler: Public schools used to routinely expel disruptive students; that is, until the NAACP, ACLU and other advocacy groups began filing suits on behalf of ‘at-risk’ kids and getting them put back, along with court orders banning such ‘abusive’ practices by school districts.
pparets - 06:04pm on 04/04/2008
And who has it hurt the most PP, who has it hurt the most?
The Whistler - 07:04pm on 04/04/2008
Bike. Well put:
more likely to come from intact homes where work and achievement are valued.
pparets, yes and the federal government’s labeling 505 as handicapped just because they do not follow rules. It took years to expel students at our school.
Chief RZ - 07:04pm on 04/04/2008
Chief RZ: Don’t even get me started on ‘special needs’ students! They are coddled at every level, sheltered from virtually every classroom requirement and insulated from discipline… and no one knows it better than them. “You can’t do nuthin’, I’m special ed...!”
pparets - 07:04pm on 04/04/2008
pparets. Thanks for your reinforcement of a little known issue that has wrecked our schools. Someone brought this up to Maxine Waters (D-Calif) her reply was,
“that doesn’t count”. The question is about how the federal government is interfering our public schools. Off for the night.
As much as I despise the NEA and the “factory school” model rightly decried by John Taylor Gatto, I cannot saddle them with all of the blame here for a very simple reason; there are an awful lot of asian kids coming out of those inner city schools with their diplomas. Somehow they negotiate the gauntlet.
I would suggest that the reason some survive, and others don’t--and a big portion of the difference between suburban and urban school districts--lies in the fact that suburban children--and those of asian parents--are more likely to come from intact homes where work and achievement are valued.
This probably dwarfs the negative contribution of the NEA and even the DoEd--and of course, that’s not exactly an argument for the big budget increases desired by the teachers’ unions, either.
I see your point, Bubba, but think you give it entirely too much credit.
Instances where school choice has been implemented (see: the choice program instituted in Florida under Jeb Bush) saw incredible gains in test scores among all demographics for children who qualified for the program.
Now, the increase in scores was different among the various demographics (blacks and hispanics saw the most growth, whites and Asians saw the least) so that’s probably where parenting plays a role.
I would say that parenting vs. schooling are about of even importance. But there’s only one of those two things we can fix directly with public policy.
Could it be that many poor inner city neighborhoods are factories for a culture of ignorance, family degradation and dysfunction from children to the elected school board officials?
Inner-city public school educators deal with chronic truancy, disinterested, even hostile parents, bloated district bureaucracies, lethargic, uninterested students, aging buildings, chronic shortages of supplies and equipment, drugs, guns, violence and massive public disinterest. They see their union - often the AFT, not the NEA - as the only sympathetic force in their classroom, and usually it is!
Inner-city private and parochial teachers are blessed with that most important resource, interested, supportive parents. BTW, in most cities, faculties at these schools are also unionized.
What you say is true PP, but then I hear the same stuff about our local and fairly high achieving school. In a lot of cases it’s a cop out by the school systems to explain their failures.
The one thing that could be done to improve public schools is to remove the kids that aren’t there to learn. That’s harsh, but then why should kids that want to learn be denied that right to cater to kids that just want to disrupt things?
Whistler: Public schools used to routinely expel disruptive students; that is, until the NAACP, ACLU and other advocacy groups began filing suits on behalf of ‘at-risk’ kids and getting them put back, along with court orders banning such ‘abusive’ practices by school districts.
And who has it hurt the most PP, who has it hurt the most?
Bike. Well put:
pparets, yes and the federal government’s labeling 505 as handicapped just because they do not follow rules. It took years to expel students at our school.Chief RZ: Don’t even get me started on ‘special needs’ students! They are coddled at every level, sheltered from virtually every classroom requirement and insulated from discipline… and no one knows it better than them. “You can’t do nuthin’, I’m special ed...!”
pparets. Thanks for your reinforcement of a little known issue that has wrecked our schools. Someone brought this up to Maxine Waters (D-Calif) her reply was,
“that doesn’t count”. The question is about how the federal government is interfering our public schools. Off for the night.