Gene had mentioned this earlier on his site and had linked to this article.
With 20% wind power as the endgame, I would wager a guess that many more fossil fuel burning peaking stations will have to be built to cover for the wind energy. Sounds expensive.
Politically Incorrect - 09:05pm on 05/12/2008
They left out that fact that there probably wouldn’t be one single wind mill in the country if they weren’t HEAVILY subsidized by the federal government.
brenarlo - 09:05pm on 05/12/2008
I’ve heard it said and I heartily agree that the environmental movement in this country should be at least the second biggest concern for Americans. A case could be made that it should occupy the number one spot.
Wind energy, if backed up with storage capability is fine (but expensive) for rural individuals, but for communities and business it is unrealistic and foolhardy.
laydownSally - 09:05pm on 05/12/2008
PGandE is committed to getting 20% of its power from renewable sources by 2010. It has a bank of windmills already in place in Altamont Pass just east of Livermore serving both rural and metropolitan areas. One of these windmills will power 500 homes. California generates about 11% of the world’s wind energy at this point.
From this list you can find just about any size wind power system that you need whether it’s to power your home or city. You could get a small one to power your lights in your cabin, barn or chicken coup.
A friend in Oklahoma converted an old stone barn into a home. There were no power lines running to it so he put up a windmill and has a battery pack about the size of a washer for when the wind doesn’t blow. He has lived there for 3 years and has not been without power. If he has to, he waits for a day to do his washing, drying, and vacuuming. Otherwise, he watches TV, leaves the lights on, and plays on his computer all he wants. His son also uses an XBox. He does have a butane powered generator as a backup but hasn’t had to sue it yet. It cost just under $9,000 for the entire system. His pool is solar heated. He uses another windmill to pump water from his well into a holding tank. He was averaging $215 per month for heating and power in Tulsa.
The government has allowed tax breaks for PG&E but they have not subsidized the installation of the windmill sites they have in three locations. Most of the problems still existing are technical issues which could be solved with an influx of investment. This is always the case with technology.
If Kansas would put the money for the coal powered plants that were just vetoed by the governor into wind, Kansas could have a cleaner state plus more jobs. If the government would simply put $20 billion into the RUS for distribution to wind power implementations, this would get done a lot sooner and do a lot more for the economy than the $140 billion worth of tax rebates. There are only about 120,000 jobs in wind energy right now but this could easily turn into 500,000 in a year.
ews48 - 11:05pm on 05/12/2008
Unless there is a massive technological break through in wing turbine design/efficiency this is all pie in the sky. As for Kansas committing themselves to wind power, that would be insane at the current technological level. No Wind turbine designed or proposed can survive tornado force winds, much less the tower that it is placed on.
The coal plants proposed for western Kansas are high efficiency with the latest emission trapping/convert systems. The question that needs asked is, why are environazis blocking the very technologies that they screech endlessly for?
2Hotel9 - 02:05am on 05/13/2008
The government has allowed tax breaks for PG&E but they have not subsidized the installation of the windmill sites they have in three locations
Both California and the Feds had massive tax breaks for wind power in the ‘80s. Wind farms became virtual tax shelters.
I’d venture that most of the windmills in the Altamont were built in the eighties.
Proof - 04:05am on 05/13/2008
Most of the problems still existing are technical issues which could be solved with an influx of investment.
Having driven past those windmills many times and watched many (not all) of them sitting motionless: How is an influx of investment going to generate the wind to turn the windmills?
(Maybe if you threw the money at the windmill, the breeze it caused in passing would make the blades spin?)
Global warming might help the wind farms! As the Central Valley heats up, it draws cooler air through the Altamont Pass. More SUVs and hot tubs for PG&E execs! Heh.
Proof - 04:05am on 05/13/2008
The US Department of Energy has spent time and effort on “chasing the wind.” As a result, they have mapped each state for wind density and the favorability fo wind farm placement. It sound like it’s something that would be hard, but it’s not. Most of the wind caused by convection cooling adjacent to the mountainous areas and large bodies of water is fairly consistent.
Another thing to consider is that T Boone Pickens is currently planning the largest wind farm in the world in Texas. Considering that he knows energy and he knows how to make money, I’d consider it less of a pipe dream.
Rob B. - 06:05am on 05/13/2008
OK. So we can just stop using petroleum right now then.
2Hotel9 - 08:05am on 05/13/2008
Pickens also makes massive amounts of money through tax write offs. Which route ya think this will follow?
Gene had mentioned this earlier on his site and had linked to this article.
With 20% wind power as the endgame, I would wager a guess that many more fossil fuel burning peaking stations will have to be built to cover for the wind energy. Sounds expensive.
They left out that fact that there probably wouldn’t be one single wind mill in the country if they weren’t HEAVILY subsidized by the federal government.
I’ve heard it said and I heartily agree that the environmental movement in this country should be at least the second biggest concern for Americans. A case could be made that it should occupy the number one spot.
Wind energy, if backed up with storage capability is fine (but expensive) for rural individuals, but for communities and business it is unrealistic and foolhardy.
PGandE is committed to getting 20% of its power from renewable sources by 2010. It has a bank of windmills already in place in Altamont Pass just east of Livermore serving both rural and metropolitan areas. One of these windmills will power 500 homes. California generates about 11% of the world’s wind energy at this point.
The American Wind Energy Assoc. has a very informative website with links to other sites.
From this list you can find just about any size wind power system that you need whether it’s to power your home or city. You could get a small one to power your lights in your cabin, barn or chicken coup.
A friend in Oklahoma converted an old stone barn into a home. There were no power lines running to it so he put up a windmill and has a battery pack about the size of a washer for when the wind doesn’t blow. He has lived there for 3 years and has not been without power. If he has to, he waits for a day to do his washing, drying, and vacuuming. Otherwise, he watches TV, leaves the lights on, and plays on his computer all he wants. His son also uses an XBox. He does have a butane powered generator as a backup but hasn’t had to sue it yet. It cost just under $9,000 for the entire system. His pool is solar heated. He uses another windmill to pump water from his well into a holding tank. He was averaging $215 per month for heating and power in Tulsa.
The government has allowed tax breaks for PG&E but they have not subsidized the installation of the windmill sites they have in three locations. Most of the problems still existing are technical issues which could be solved with an influx of investment. This is always the case with technology.
If Kansas would put the money for the coal powered plants that were just vetoed by the governor into wind, Kansas could have a cleaner state plus more jobs. If the government would simply put $20 billion into the RUS for distribution to wind power implementations, this would get done a lot sooner and do a lot more for the economy than the $140 billion worth of tax rebates. There are only about 120,000 jobs in wind energy right now but this could easily turn into 500,000 in a year.
Unless there is a massive technological break through in wing turbine design/efficiency this is all pie in the sky. As for Kansas committing themselves to wind power, that would be insane at the current technological level. No Wind turbine designed or proposed can survive tornado force winds, much less the tower that it is placed on.
The coal plants proposed for western Kansas are high efficiency with the latest emission trapping/convert systems. The question that needs asked is, why are environazis blocking the very technologies that they screech endlessly for?
Both California and the Feds had massive tax breaks for wind power in the ‘80s. Wind farms became virtual tax shelters.
I’d venture that most of the windmills in the Altamont were built in the eighties.
Having driven past those windmills many times and watched many (not all) of them sitting motionless: How is an influx of investment going to generate the wind to turn the windmills?
(Maybe if you threw the money at the windmill, the breeze it caused in passing would make the blades spin?)
Global warming might help the wind farms! As the Central Valley heats up, it draws cooler air through the Altamont Pass. More SUVs and hot tubs for PG&E execs! Heh.
The US Department of Energy has spent time and effort on “chasing the wind.” As a result, they have mapped each state for wind density and the favorability fo wind farm placement. It sound like it’s something that would be hard, but it’s not. Most of the wind caused by convection cooling adjacent to the mountainous areas and large bodies of water is fairly consistent.
http://survivaldealer.com/survival-downloads/wind-maps.html
Another thing to consider is that T Boone Pickens is currently planning the largest wind farm in the world in Texas. Considering that he knows energy and he knows how to make money, I’d consider it less of a pipe dream.
OK. So we can just stop using petroleum right now then.
Pickens also makes massive amounts of money through tax write offs. Which route ya think this will follow?