In November, he was sent home early from Iraq because of threats from fellow soldiers.
Maybe that’s the real story here; he wanted to go home.
robert108 - 12:04pm on 04/26/2008
When Specialist Jeremy Hall held a meeting last July for atheists and freethinkers
I love it when atheists pretend that only they are ‘free thinkers’. A bit arrogant? Anyway just what kind of meeting was it, and was it held at the exclusion of non-atheists and other non-free thinkers. As far as questions about the military’s religion guidelines , when did atheism become a religion with guiding principles [as the definition of religion implies]? Just asking…
docdave - 02:04pm on 04/26/2008
Well, this is not the first bit of news about this issue of freedom of conscience in the military. There was widespread religious harassment at the Air Force Academy. And, as my grammy used to say, when you see a mouse, you can count there being a dozen more you’ll never see. 50 reports means between 500 to 5000 cases. Given 1.36 million service members, we can figure that about 25,000 (about 2% or so) are atheists. So maybe about 2% to 20% or so of them are subject to harassment for their beliefs on the nature of the universe and the origins of humankind. That is pretty pathetic, if not Armageddon. But we don’t have a draft any more, so the military is no longer the place where a Brooklyn Jew and a Kansas Christian can meet for the first time and learn that the former doesn’t have horns, and the latter isn’t a holy roller, but a fairly reasonable guy. Yet another reason for the draft (yes, now that I’m way too old for it).
Peter - 07:04pm on 04/26/2008
Any Soldier who harrasses another for being atheist deserves to have his head blown off in battle and for the head sent to his family.
Christianity the Scummy Pseudo Science - 11:04pm on 04/27/2008
The Marine Corps has been forcing recruits to attend religious services during Basic Training at Parris Island and San Diego for over 50 years. When I went through basic training at Parris Island I was told that I had a choice of three services--Catholic, Protestant, or Jewish. Because I had been raised as an Episcopalian, I “chose” to attend the Protestant service. The chaplain turned out to be a Southern Baptist which, for an Episcopalian, resulted in severe culture shock. When, after two unbearable Sundays, I requested to be exempted, the Senior Drill Instructor informed me that I then had two choices, Catholic or Jewish. I chose the Jewish service and was happy that I did because the rabbi smuggled things we were strictly forbidden to have during basic training--cakes and cookies which the Jewish mothers of Beaufort, S.C. had lovingly baked, and Coca-Cola But it wasn’t only boot camp. Religion was forced upon us for the entire length of our enlistment and I understand that that continues to be the case. The protestant chaplains were singularly ignorant, bigoted men. Because I had attended Jewish “services” my dog-tags said that I was Jewish and that proved to have some wonderful but unintended consequences: I was able to use my dog-tags to get out of Friday night barracks cleanups and inspections because I had to go to temple! When I was at NAS Jacksonville (Florida) one of the other men asked me how I had managed to escape the cleanup. When I showed him my dog taqs he saw the light and had his changed that very week. The next Friday night came and I had someone to go drinking with me. His last name was Fuentes. My final conclusion? I wish that the military would stop forcing people to attend religious services but, until then, think about how to make it work for you!
Fred Glynn - 03:08pm on 08/04/2008
The Marine Corps has been forcing recruits to attend religious services during Basic Training at Parris Island and San Diego for over 50 years. When I went through basic training at Parris Island I was told that I had a choice of three services--Catholic, Protestant, or Jewish. Because I had been raised as an Episcopalian, I “chose” to attend the Protestant service. The chaplain turned out to be a Southern Baptist which, for an Episcopalian, resulted in severe culture shock. When, after two unbearable Sundays, I requested to be exempted, the Senior Drill Instructor informed me that I then had two choices, Catholic or Jewish. I chose the Jewish service and was happy that I did because the rabbi smuggled things we were strictly forbidden to have during basic training--cakes and cookies which the Jewish mothers of Beaufort, S.C. had lovingly baked, and Coca-Cola But it wasn’t only boot camp. Religion was forced upon us for the entire length of our enlistment and I understand that that continues to be the case. The protestant chaplains were singularly ignorant, bigoted men. Because I had attended Jewish “services” my dog-tags said that I was Jewish and that proved to have some wonderful but unintended consequences: I was able to use my dog-tags to get out of Friday night barracks cleanups and inspections because I had to go to temple! When I was at NAS Jacksonville (Florida) one of the other men asked me how I had managed to escape the cleanup. When I showed him my dog taqs he saw the light and had his changed that very week. The next Friday night came and I had someone to go drinking with me. His last name was Fuentes. My final conclusion? I wish that the military would stop forcing people to attend religious services but, until then, think about how to make it work for you!
Fred Glynn - 03:08pm on 08/04/2008
Forced religion?
I find that bizarre.
Even in PI, at least when I went through Paradise Island, it was optional. I never went. Of the non-attendees, pretty much the most of us, we sat on our ass in the middle of the squad bay, cleaned weapons, polished boots and wrote letters home to Suzy Rottencrotch.
And then once out in the Fleet, whether deployed, at MCB, in Battalion or FSSG, I never heard of forced religion.
Where and when did you serve?
What outfits?
Move_Zig - 03:08pm on 08/04/2008
Forced religion?
I find that bizarre.
Even in PI, at least when I went through Paradise Island, it was optional. I never went. Of the non-attendees, pretty much the most of us, we sat on our ass in the middle of the squad bay, cleaned weapons, polished boots and wrote letters home to Suzy Rottencrotch.
And then once out in the Fleet, whether deployed, at MCB, in Battalion or FSSG, I never heard of forced religion.
Where and when did you serve?
What outfits?
Move_Zig - 03:08pm on 08/04/2008
[Geez - the new SAB still has a glitch to be worked out]
Actually, there have been quite a few articles about how the higher-ups are trying to suppress religion in the military, including severe punishment threatened for referring to non-generic religious figures.
Seventy-three members of Congress have joined the request, saying in an Oct. 25 letter to the president, “In all branches of the military, it is becoming increasingly difficult for Christian chaplains to use the name of Jesus when praying.”
About 80 percent of U.S. troops are Christian, the legislators wrote, adding that military “censorship” of chaplains’ prayers disenfranchises “hundreds of thousands of Christian soldiers in the military who look to their chaplains for comfort, inspiration and support.”
Official military policy allows any sort of prayer, but Lt. Klingenschmitt says that in reality, evangelical Protestant prayers are censored. He cites his training at the Navy Chaplains School in Newport, R.I., where “they have clipboards and evaluators who evaluate your prayers, and they praise you if you pray just to God,” he said. “But if you pray in Jesus’ name, they counsel you."…
The Navy allows chaplains to pray in the name of Jesus Christ, Allah or any other deity during chapel services, spokeswoman Lt. Erin Bailey said.
At other public events, “Navy chaplains are encouraged to be sensitive to the needs of all those present,” she said, “and may decline an invitation to pray if not able to do so for conscience reasons.”
I know that if I’ve been on the wrong end of a firefight, I’m holding my guts in with half of a mess kit and the chaplain comes around, I want the real deal, not some non-denominational, generic, government-approved, PC Deity.
Maybe that’s the real story here; he wanted to go home.
I love it when atheists pretend that only they are ‘free thinkers’. A bit arrogant? Anyway just what kind of meeting was it, and was it held at the exclusion of non-atheists and other non-free thinkers. As far as questions about the military’s religion guidelines , when did atheism become a religion with guiding principles [as the definition of religion implies]? Just asking…
Well, this is not the first bit of news about this issue of freedom of conscience in the military. There was widespread religious harassment at the Air Force Academy. And, as my grammy used to say, when you see a mouse, you can count there being a dozen more you’ll never see. 50 reports means between 500 to 5000 cases. Given 1.36 million service members, we can figure that about 25,000 (about 2% or so) are atheists. So maybe about 2% to 20% or so of them are subject to harassment for their beliefs on the nature of the universe and the origins of humankind. That is pretty pathetic, if not Armageddon. But we don’t have a draft any more, so the military is no longer the place where a Brooklyn Jew and a Kansas Christian can meet for the first time and learn that the former doesn’t have horns, and the latter isn’t a holy roller, but a fairly reasonable guy. Yet another reason for the draft (yes, now that I’m way too old for it).
Any Soldier who harrasses another for being atheist deserves to have his head blown off in battle and for the head sent to his family.
The Marine Corps has been forcing recruits to attend religious services during Basic Training at Parris Island and San Diego for over 50 years. When I went through basic training at Parris Island I was told that I had a choice of three services--Catholic, Protestant, or Jewish. Because I had been raised as an Episcopalian, I “chose” to attend the Protestant service. The chaplain turned out to be a Southern Baptist which, for an Episcopalian, resulted in severe culture shock. When, after two unbearable Sundays, I requested to be exempted, the Senior Drill Instructor informed me that I then had two choices, Catholic or Jewish. I chose the Jewish service and was happy that I did because the rabbi smuggled things we were strictly forbidden to have during basic training--cakes and cookies which the Jewish mothers of Beaufort, S.C. had lovingly baked, and Coca-Cola But it wasn’t only boot camp. Religion was forced upon us for the entire length of our enlistment and I understand that that continues to be the case. The protestant chaplains were singularly ignorant, bigoted men. Because I had attended Jewish “services” my dog-tags said that I was Jewish and that proved to have some wonderful but unintended consequences: I was able to use my dog-tags to get out of Friday night barracks cleanups and inspections because I had to go to temple! When I was at NAS Jacksonville (Florida) one of the other men asked me how I had managed to escape the cleanup. When I showed him my dog taqs he saw the light and had his changed that very week. The next Friday night came and I had someone to go drinking with me. His last name was Fuentes. My final conclusion? I wish that the military would stop forcing people to attend religious services but, until then, think about how to make it work for you!
The Marine Corps has been forcing recruits to attend religious services during Basic Training at Parris Island and San Diego for over 50 years. When I went through basic training at Parris Island I was told that I had a choice of three services--Catholic, Protestant, or Jewish. Because I had been raised as an Episcopalian, I “chose” to attend the Protestant service. The chaplain turned out to be a Southern Baptist which, for an Episcopalian, resulted in severe culture shock. When, after two unbearable Sundays, I requested to be exempted, the Senior Drill Instructor informed me that I then had two choices, Catholic or Jewish. I chose the Jewish service and was happy that I did because the rabbi smuggled things we were strictly forbidden to have during basic training--cakes and cookies which the Jewish mothers of Beaufort, S.C. had lovingly baked, and Coca-Cola But it wasn’t only boot camp. Religion was forced upon us for the entire length of our enlistment and I understand that that continues to be the case. The protestant chaplains were singularly ignorant, bigoted men. Because I had attended Jewish “services” my dog-tags said that I was Jewish and that proved to have some wonderful but unintended consequences: I was able to use my dog-tags to get out of Friday night barracks cleanups and inspections because I had to go to temple! When I was at NAS Jacksonville (Florida) one of the other men asked me how I had managed to escape the cleanup. When I showed him my dog taqs he saw the light and had his changed that very week. The next Friday night came and I had someone to go drinking with me. His last name was Fuentes. My final conclusion? I wish that the military would stop forcing people to attend religious services but, until then, think about how to make it work for you!
Forced religion?
I find that bizarre.
Even in PI, at least when I went through Paradise Island, it was optional. I never went. Of the non-attendees, pretty much the most of us, we sat on our ass in the middle of the squad bay, cleaned weapons, polished boots and wrote letters home to Suzy Rottencrotch.
And then once out in the Fleet, whether deployed, at MCB, in Battalion or FSSG, I never heard of forced religion.
Where and when did you serve?
What outfits?
Forced religion?
I find that bizarre.
Even in PI, at least when I went through Paradise Island, it was optional. I never went. Of the non-attendees, pretty much the most of us, we sat on our ass in the middle of the squad bay, cleaned weapons, polished boots and wrote letters home to Suzy Rottencrotch.
And then once out in the Fleet, whether deployed, at MCB, in Battalion or FSSG, I never heard of forced religion.
Where and when did you serve?
What outfits?
[Geez - the new SAB still has a glitch to be worked out]
Actually, there have been quite a few articles about how the higher-ups are trying to suppress religion in the military, including severe punishment threatened for referring to non-generic religious figures.
Padres have been threatened for using such phrases as ’we pray, in Jesus’ name, Amen‘ and similar:
I know that if I’ve been on the wrong end of a firefight, I’m holding my guts in with half of a mess kit and the chaplain comes around, I want the real deal, not some non-denominational, generic, government-approved, PC Deity.
"In foxholes, there are no athiests.”