Say Anything Blog

What a joke. Those who buy into “free health care” are fools. Truth is, you pay for it and still might not get it.

Don’t get me wrong here, I am totally against socialized medicine.  I just think your argument against Britain is kind of funny.

What’s more, the tool they’re using to determine who is and is not fat is an archaic measure that is hardly accurate.  Under body mass index measurements, people like professional football player Emmit Smith are “fat.” Along with people like Dwayne Johnson (a/k/a “The Rock), George W. Bush and Tom Cruise

Yeah, but I guarantee you Tom Cruise and George W. Bush aren’t registering a 35.  The Rock might, but I also guarantee you this lady isn’t all muscle.  A BMI of 35 is HUGE!  I’m at 18.5 now and I’m told I’m underweight.  I definitely don’t look anorexic.  Yes the scale is inaccurate, but 35 is massive and you have to admit it.  30 is where you become “obese” and 5 points represents a lot of weight.

Isn’t our health care already subsidized? (just not by the government) Insurance companies rarely work directly with consumers, they work with employers, and most employers in this state are stuck with blue cross blue shield…

Something also smells funny when:

1.  Consumer is charged $100 for health care.
2.  Insurance might pickup $15 of the $100
3.  The insurance company has negotiated a rate with the health care provider (doctor) to pay him only $50 because he accepts insurance.
4.  Doctors feel they must accept insurance or very few consumers will come to them.

The insurance companies in the US would be held more accountable if they had to deal with all of the consumers directly. (ie, no corporate offered health insurance plans of 1 size fits all)

That is only one example. I have heard other stories of people with cancer who could not get clearance for medication… Socialism is not the answer for any part of a freedom loving country. Let alone socialized medicine. ANYTIME the Government starts providing for its people , those people can look forward to programs such as Soc. Sec. that are bankrupt and do NOT provide enough for the people who have been paying into it and relying on it for their golden years…

What would Michael Moore’s BMI be?

What would Michael Moore’s BMI be?

He claims that his weight is 300 pounds and his height is 6’2”. That gives him a BMI of 38.5.

Sorry, but your argument is completely wrong that this was to ‘ration’ a health system and by a beauracrat. Yet another loose argument by those trying to fight socialized medicine.

(Which is really no different than our own, only instead of dealing with insurance companies you deal with the Government. Same deal, different middle man, only the Government isn’t required to turn a profit off you in the middle.)

Although BMI is not the most accurate tool to gauge obesity, it is still a generally accepted one that is usually somewhat close to correct. A person with a BMI of 35 is OBESE.

Their weight is now a health issue, and as a result poses to be a liability to the health care system. Not only do more resources like anasthetics have to be used to take care of the person, but would not excessive weight also cause more stress on an artificial hip to be put in, thus possibly necessitating another surgery in the near future to replace the one she just got.

Quite simply, if we take your qoute:

“The PCT had refused her treatment because of its policy of not providing surgery to most people with a body mass index of more than 35 unless they go through a weight-loss plan.”

All she had to do was go through a weight-loss plan, which would not only improve her health, further gauranteeing a successful operation, but also would lower her impact on the medical system as a whole.

She chose not to take the required course, so she didn’t get the surgery.

Can’t have your cake and eat it too, as they say.

It’s not like she was denied because the doctors she chose for the surgery weren’t in her preferred network…

What would Michael Moore’s BMI be?
He claims that his weight is 300 pounds and his height is 6’2”. That gives him a BMI of 38.5.

I’d say he’s fluffing his numbers.  I know people who are 6’2” and 300 pounds and they don’t look nearly as morbid.  I’d estimate his BMI to be at least a sloppy 40.

SilverSurfer - Their weight is now a health issue, and as a result poses to be a liability to the health care system.

So why is she paying for it? And can she stop?

This is where your argument fails.

She chose not to take the required course, so she didn’t get the surgery.

Can’t have your cake and eat it too, as they say.

What are you talking about? Why can’t the woman just have the cake she paid for? You don’t understand that expression.

It’s not like she was denied because the doctors she chose for the surgery weren’t in her preferred network…

Is that supposed to be a worse situation than the one she is in now? What was your point of saying that?

I really don’t see anything wrong with that.  The NHS gave her a choice; lose weight and we’ll pay for the surgery or don’t and pay for it yourself.  She made a choice not to go on a diet.  I don’t think they put a gun to her head and I doubt she’s a body builder like The Rock or anything along those lines.  Yeah she has the right to sue, but I don’t know if I’d grant a full judgement if I had anything to do with the case.

Sorry SilverSurfer, but it’s not always that easy.  I’ve had a bad hip since 1980 because of an auto accident.  My weight has gone up, way, way too much since then and I am very obese.  But I got my hip replaced last April.  Things have worked so much better since then.  Before that, almost any useful exercise could leave me in pain.  It didn’t start out that way, but I knew I was going to need my hip replaced so I really started working on exercising.  But it just made things worse.  It got so that the pain was bad enough that a trip to the grocery store would practically have me crawling on the ground once I got back to my apartment.

Eating less didn’t work.  I managed to cut my food consumption to the point that my regular doctor was happy with it, but it just wasn’t enough.  Now that I’ve had my hip replaced, exercise has become so much easier and I am dropping pounds.  Mostly through walking.  I walk to local stores sometimes.  I park at the far end of the parking lot instead of in a handicap spot.  I go walking with friends in places I wouldn’t have dared with my bad hip.  My hip was what was holding me back.

And I could just imagine the possible pain that lady might have been going through.  It’s something a bureaucrat pushing bureaucrap wouldn’t understand.

Now, I am on Social Security Disability and Medicare.  They didn’t really seem to have a say in my surgery.  I just went to the hip specialist, scheduled my surgery (two months, but he’s a busy surgeon and my surgery only ended up being a week later than I wanted it to be.  I was a difficult surgery because of my size, but being that I had a surgeon who was able to run his practice the way he wants to and does 300-350 hip/knee replacement a year, he had the knowledge and expertise to do it well.

And it’s turned out really well.  It was a very life-changing event.  My body took to the new hip like a fish takes to water and I was healed up and things knitted together so well at the six month point that my surgeon said I was healed up better than most people at the one year mark.  So I got to start skipping check-ups.  (Saves you people money.  And I thank all of you for providing me the opportunity.)

Don’t just other people surgical needs until you’ve walked a mile in their shoes.  If you could make it that far because of the pain…

Renee - I really don’t see anything wrong with that.  The NHS gave her a choice; lose weight and we’ll pay for the surgery or don’t and pay for it yourself.

But she’s already paying for it!

She made a choice not to go on a diet.

She had no choice with the taxes she was required to pay.

I don’t think they put a gun to her head and I doubt she’s a body builder like The Rock or anything along those lines.

No, but they did make her pay taxes for the service that she is denied. They did that under the threat of the gun. You don’t pay taxes and the government will send well-armed men to get you. If you don’t go with those men, they will shoot you.

Your choice and “gun to her head” analogies were better suited to my argument.

Why would anyone think that a Socialist government would be better? Take a good gander at how all the Socialized programs have ended up so far. I heard someone say the other day that their grandmother recieved TWO Soc. Sec. checks. AND that it was a mistake. BUT they were not going to complain about it. So ripping off the american tax payers and hard working people is OK? Welfare is another rip off.  We need the Government to stay the heck out of our personal lives…

The insurance companies in the US would be held more accountable if they had to deal with all of the consumers directly. (ie, no corporate offered health insurance plans of 1 size fits all)

The problem there is one of risk management.  In corporate policies the risk pool are the employees of that worker.  I don’t know exactly what risk pool you’d be in if you went it alone.

I suppose the insurance companies could “risk” people according to sex, marriage status, age, general health habits.

Even with those risk factors I doubt that people would be happy.  If you charge people according to their known health history things would get really overheated.

If you look at a 25 year old male who’s buying insurance should he have to pay the same as a 60 year old?  I don’t think so but that’s what their doing in a corporate plan.  Should that male have to buy insurance to cover in case he gets pregnant?  Same thing.

The Debate is over!  Global Whining has been confirmed.

No insurer in the US would write a policy for a person with a BMI of 35.

I don’t totally disagree with you but, as a commenter pointed out earlier, this woman certainly isn’t a body builder.  She most certainly IS obese and obesity can cause MANY complications in surgery that many doctor’s advise that surgery can be more dangerous than living with the debilitation.  I’m in the medical field here in the US and I see people every day (with insurance) who are denied surgery until they lose 30-40 pounds, and then they would still be heavy, just not morbidly obese.  So this situation cannot be assessed by those of us who are not familiar with this woman’s medical history.  Of course, a doctor would take into account a body builder’s muscle mass in relation to his height and weight.  So as “archaic” as you say BMI is, it certainly isn’t the only factor here.  Just keep that in mind when addressing this issue.

I guess universal health care is really code for health care for the healthy!  Who knew!  If you are young, in shape and need no health care you are good to go.  If you are fat then you are a bad risk and no care for you.  Some of you people are disgusting.  This woman is in pain but because she is fat, screw you fatty!

Right she should get a stairmaster and take it off.

It’s not that they took her money when she was healthy.

It’s amazing if your HMO did this there would be a huge lawsuit.

But when liberals propose programs like this it’s ok because they mean well.

The Debate is over!  Global Whining has been confirmed.

The Body Mass Index pisses me off. According to it, I am morbidly obese. I am 5’9” and I weigh 220 pounds. I can run a mile in 7 minutes, bench press 385 pounds, do 40 hand stand push-ups in a row, and have 9 percent body fat. And the nurse who checked me out for my life insurance policy lied about my weight!! When she asked my weight, I said, “I weigh 220.” She said, “There is no way you weigh that much… Let’s just say you weigh 180.” The BMI is so outdated it is sick. With improved nutrition and exercise, many of us do not conform to that silly chart. I seriously want it changed so I don’t have another nurse telling me I need to lie about my weight.

Thank god I’m not in America. How many people have no or limited access to health care? At least in the U.K everyone has access to basic health care. I’m not saying that the woman concerned is right in her complaint, but at least she had a choice. She could have had treatment on the NHS to lose weight, did she take it? no she’s yet another whinger trying to make money from her inability to control her eating habits. How dare an American bad-mouth a system that America couldn’t even dream of. Money, that’s all that matters in the good old U.S of A.

Thank god I’m not in America. How many people have no or limited access to health care?

The answer is zero Gordon.

I agree - thank God you’re not in America. We already have enough people who buy the big government propaganda. No need for one more.

At least in the U.K everyone has access to basic health care.

UNLESS YOU ARE FAT.

I’m not saying that the woman concerned is right in her complaint, but at least she had a choice.

She could stop paying for the health care she can’t receive?

No, that’s not it. The woman has no choice. Why are you lying to us Gordon?

no she’s yet another whinger trying to make money from her inability to control her eating habits.

How is she trying to make money? She’s just trying to get back what she has already paid. Pay attention Gordon. You’re telling us a story and it doesn’t jive with reality.

How dare an American bad-mouth a system that America couldn’t even dream of. Money, that’s all that matters in the good old U.S of A.

That was kind of stupid for you to say, especially considering how many things you were wrong about in your short comment.

I agree with your first sentence though. Thank God you’re not in America. You’re an idiot. We already have enough of those.

How many of these horror stories do we have to see before proponents of Government run hcare wake up?

We need solutions but Government socialized medicien is not the answer