With The Nation $12 Trillion In Debt, Senator Conrad Backs Stimulus Handouts For Business Start-Ups

I’ve written before about the differences between corporatism and capitalism. Capitalism, or “free markets,” consist of private entrepreneurs competing against one another for profit. Corporatism, or “crony capitalism,” is rent-seekers seeking to base their enterprises on government assistance either in direct subsidy or in unfair regulatory, legal or tax practices that reward what they’re doing while hurting their competitors.
So when I see an article like this I know this isn’t capitalism. This isn’t the sort of thing that made America great. This is corporate rent-seeking at the expense of the taxpayers at a time when they can hardly afford it.

Flow Mobile is a small company with a bold plan to bring the next wave of mobile wireless communications to a large swath of rural America.
The Bismarck-based firm claims to have “game-changing” technology that makes it economically feasible to cover sparsely populated areas of 12 states in the Midwest and West.
The launching pad for Flow Mobile’s proposed wireless network is North Dakota, with a pilot project expected to start soon in Cass County to demonstrate its technology, which has drawn skepticism.
To help build its wireless empire, Flow Mobile has applied for $52 million in federal stimulus grants, including $29.1 million for projects in North Dakota. …
Gov. John Hoeven wrote a warm letter of support earlier this year offering to have several state public safety agencies use Flow Mobile’s demonstration network – and possibly use state-owned towers and poles for base stations.
Sen. Kent Conrad, D-N.D., wrote two federal agency heads to support Flow Mobile’s request for stimulus grants, which are still pending.

It’s a lengthy article, and the whole thing is worth a read.
Who knew the “stimulus” spending bill was going to amount to little more than a slush fund for the political big wigs?
And there’s a problem here, too. Flow Mobile is setting up to compete with existing telco’s in North Dakota in developing a wireless broadband emergency communications system for the state. Meaning, essentially, that our federal tax dollars could be used to subsidize into existence a company that would compete with already existing companies to bid on a state contract for an emergency communications system that would also be funded by our state tax dollars.
Anyone else seeing a problem here?
Throw into the mix Alien Technology, a failed Fargo-based company that was going to “revolutionize” the world with RFID tags. That business finally closed its doors earlier this year taking with it nearly $8 million in “invested” economic development funds.
Clearly, our government has a pretty poor track record when it comes to picking and choosing winners and losers in the market. And I think it’s probably because the winners and losers are based not on considerations such as business models and marketability (things private investors would consider) but rather which companies have the best political connections.
Which is the problem with corporatism in the first place, be it government “investing” economic development money or giving out grants of “stimulus” money. The government is inefficient, sometimes corrupt and prone to value political connections over viable business models.
Our government – state or federal – has no business giving away money to private businesses. If a business can’t survive without government aid then clearly that business is either poorly managed or offering goods/services the public doesn’t really want. If a start-up business can’t get private capital to launch, then perhaps it has no business launching in the first place.
That is how free markets work.

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  • http://Array sayanything-9974

    A Tax and Spend Liberal telling us about economics is like the mafia lecturing on law enforcement. The perspective is not based in any sort of fact or historical perspective. Fannie and Freddie problems start back in the Carter era witht he Community re-investment act, and got worse every time liberal do-gooders changed regulations and bullyed banks into risky loans with threats of racist accusations. Now we find that millions of ILLEGAL ALIENS bought homes and welfare and unemployment were listed as income for others.
    The American dream is alive but you need to earn it, not have the government force someone else to provide it to you. One only need look at some of the groups brought to prominenece with the Democraps to see why our country is in trouble. The big money backers want compensation for getting the affirmative action puppet elected.
    Barack is up on the porch and working for SEIU, George Soros, EcoFrauds, ACORN, pro-Abortion and the race baiters. They want thier bailout now. That is the real reason why the slush funds (Porkulus) were established. The money sure hasn’t done anything for any one else. Where are the jobs? – Where is the money?

    While Barack repays the people that elected him, the country continues to wither and suffer. There is no plan for success only the plan to take more money and tell us they know what is best.

    They don’t need to tell me how my money would be best spent. They have not been right about anything economically since JFK cut taxes. That is quite a dry spell they have going. History does tell us what to expect from Socialist/Communist failures. The Carter Misery index is back with a new leader. That hope and change ain’t working so well.

    We need to avoud the genocides, starvations and standing in lines for TP and Bread and go right to the Fall of the Democrap curtain.

  • sayanything-203

    Fannie & Freddie did not purchase the loans that caused the problems.

    Really!!?? Then how is it that Fannie and Freddie were the first to fail and totally taken over by the government? How did all that “toxic” paper get into the GSEs’ portfolios causing their demise?

    Hmmm!?

  • sayanything-203

    Dino,

    I doubt that even former Federal Reserve Governor Randall S. Kroszner, whose writing you have mistakenly cited, could differentiate between which sub-prime mortgage loans “brought down the economy” as you wrongly described it, and which ones did not. And if a professional economist with his C.V., who specializes in financial regulatory systems cannot, there’s not a chance in hell that you could make the distinction either. After all, ALL those sub-prime mortgage loans were bundled, securitized, and ultimately sold.

    That said, it occurs to me that in your zeal to blame Wall Street, free market capitalism, and anything or anyone else not controlled by federal bureaucrats, you haven’t even begun to explain what actually went wrong. Why did the default rate suddenly increase? Why did people with Adjustable Rate Mortgage loans all of a sudden stop making their monthly payments in such record numbers? ARMs, after all, have been around for decades and they have been a standard option from Fannie, Freddie, and FHA portfolios. Used properly, ARMs can be a very cost-effective way to buy real estate. What was different this time… and why?

    My point is that you are, predictably, blaming a capitalist, free market system which you obviously don’t comprehend and admittedly despise, but you have yet to address the real cause of the “crisis”, the housing bubble burst.

    Not knowing any better, you’ve been blaming the packaging company for the tainted peanut butter inside the jar.

    Incidentally, that “bringing down the economy” is more than a little hyperbolic. And disingenuous. After all, you were one of the ones screaming loudest that NBER stated that the recession started in Q4 2007. Well before the so-called “mortgage crisis” was on the public radar screen. You are clearly the victim of your own hyperbole and though its amusing to watch, it does nothing to enhance your tattered credibility.

  • lock’em’up

    Isn’t unemployment over 10% now? Don’t you think the Republicans should do something about the minimum wage if democrats won’t?

    I was for a higher minimum wage, now I’d like it lowered just a bit.

  • lock’em’up

    Rob. Good call.

    We need to work on the foundation of our economy so that “If a start-up business can’t get private capital to launch, then perhaps it has no business launching in the first place.” would be 100% true. We need to slow imports, bring jobs home, increase exports, buy American, and buy local. Then, investment money will be available to those who deserve it.

  • sayanything-203

    Only the willfully ignorant are unaware of the role played by liberal Democrats in the mortgage crisis.

    GSE presence in the subprime market could be of significant benefit to lower-income families, minorities, and families living in underserved areas.

    -Clinton HUD Secretary AndrewCuomo

    We have not been a major presence in the subprime market,” he said, “but you can bet that under these goals, we will be.

    -Former Clinton Budget Chief and Fannie Mae CEO Franklin Raines.

    In moving, even tentatively, into this new area of lending, Fannie Mae is taking on significantly more risk, which may not pose any difficulties during flush economic times. But the government-subsidized corporation may run into trouble in an economic downturn, prompting a government rescue similar to that of the savings and loan industry in the 1980’s.

    -NYT 9-30-99. The entire story can be found here(http://www.nytimes.com/1999/09/30/business/fannie-mae-eases-credit-to-aid-mortgage-lending.html)

    Finally a story from that bastion of rightwing conservative orthodoxy, The Village Voice, titled, “Andrew Cuomo and Fannie and Freddie: How the youngest Housing and Urban Development secretary in history gave birth to the mortgage crisis
    (http://www.villagevoice.com/content/printVersion/541234?ref=patrick.net)

  • jdkchem

    You’re the last person commenting on anyone’s education. The stimulus did nothing only a crack smoking ignorant jackass would believe otherwise. Did the stimulus stop unemployment from topping 8%? No it did not so you can stop lying and you can put down the crack pipe. Maybe when you sober up Festus will put you back in your stall.

  • jdkchem

    And you’re still lying to cover for inept policies promoted by libturd morons. Your denial is nothing more than a cowardly and feeble attempt to avoid responsibility for your inept decision making. Every time some ignorant libturd policy fails. Twats like you crawl from under every rock pointing the finger at everyone else for your failures. If you think for one femto-second I’m going to pay the price for your ignorance and stupidity you’re a crack smoking jack-ass.

  • jdkchem

    And you’ll never escape that you’re a lying libturd pedophile. In 7 years thanks to your precedent the debt will be 71% of GDP. Your precedent quadrupled the deficit. Suck on that scumbag.

  • jdkchem

    “The watershed moment was the 1992 Federal Housing Enterprises Financial Safety and Soundness Act, also known as the GSE Act. To comply with that law’s “affordable housing” requirements, Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac would acquire more than $6 trillion of single-family loans over the next 16 years.

    Congress’s goal was to force these two government-sponsored enterprises (GSEs) to purchase loans that had been originated by banks—loans that were made under the pressure of another federal law, the 1977 Community Reinvestment Act (CRA), to increase lending in low- and moderate-income communities. ”

    http://online.wsj.com/article/SB20001424052748703298004574459763052141456.html

    You’re lying again. You can go back to your day job collecting donkey semen.

  • sayanything-12

    BatOne: Only the willfully ignorant are unaware of the role played by liberal Democrats in the mortgage crisis.
    Or truly dumb people like Dino. Broomsticks are brighter than him.

    I love how he misread the NY Times article… didn’t bother commenting because you can’t fix stupid.

  • sayanything-203

    Lending standards were reduced as a direct result of nuisance law suits made possible by the CRA.

    Partly true. It is also true that successive Democrat HUD secretaries, Cisneros and then Cuomo ordered that Fannie and Freddie expand their “low income” and “minority” lending, largely in an effort to buy votes for the Democrats. As a result, both GSEs added additional lower credit tier programs under their respective “conventional” banners. Lower credit mortgage loans were approved under much looser underwriting standards, the most well known of which were called “Alt-A.” Loans that once could only have been funded via non-conforming, sub-prime channels were now being purchased and funded by the GSEs.

    In addition, both Fannie and Freddie started buying non-GSE sub-prime securities on the secondary market, artificially boosting profits and the fraudulent bonuses of Johnson, Raines, Gorelick and others.

  • jdkchem

    Yes they did. Stop lying.

  • jdkchem

    You’re lying again. Reagan worked with a democrat congress. GHW Bush worked with a democrat congress. The first 2 Clinton years were a democrat congress. The last 2 GW Bush years were a democrat congress. The last time you libturd idiots ruled was Jimmah Carter. Are you calling that a success? That was the birth of the CRA which inspite of your ignorant denial laid the groundwork for the housing crisis. Clinton did the rest.
    Please continue demonstrating that you’re a lying ignorant jack-ass.

  • jdkchem

    And the deficit quadrupled when your precedent forced the stimulus without reading the damn bill then lying about it.

  • Anon

    You are inane, tiring and clueless. If you are broke you quit finding new things to spend money on. What a douche.

  • Brent

    “Who knew the “stimulus” spending bill was going to amount to little more than a slush fund for the political big wigs?”

    You did. I did. The politicians did. Everyone who is paying attention did. Admittedly, that amounts to only a small minority of the population, but that just proves that politicians are willing to manipulate the sometimes ignorant, sometimes naively hopeful, populace.

  • sayanything-12

    Excellent comments there Kenny.

    I’ll point out that Dino once linked to a book by Alyssa Katz on the mortgage crisis, that essentially totally under minded his own arguments, the very ones he’s giving her

    Basically she showed how the “good intentions” of the left led to a regulatory attitude that turned a blind eye on unethical and predatory industry behaviors… and prevented attempts to regulate them (mostly by Republicans) because of fears that this would undermine their “well-intentioned” social policies.

    In typical trollish fashion rather than admit he’s an idiot (which he thoroughly is), Dino doubled down, claiming in effect that even Katz didn’t understand what her own book said. (Literally, as I posted her own words on the matter…which Dino then roundly dismissed.)

    I admit getting a good laugh off this incident whenever I think of it. Thanks for the entertainment, Dino!

  • lock’em’up

    Typical, change the subject when you can’t defend your statement or “ideals”.

  • Brent

    “The consensus is that the stimulus was a good idea and is working.”

    I am not a partisan, except that I believe both parties are prone to lying, stupidity, and stupidly lying.

    The very idea of a “stimulus” is a terrible idea, based on economic models that assume either that something can be added from “outside” the economy ala a physics experiment or that increasing (government and private) consumption spending is somehow going to turn stones into bread ala a fairy tale.

  • sayanything-4625

    Debt caused by republicans, I might add.

    Then by your metric we should be rich but we’re not? What happened, I thought spending stimulated the economy? You really believe some contradictory things Dino.

  • Brent

    Yet, Dino, you can not defend the “stimulus” on logical grounds. Instead, you appeal to “experts” (who are, by the way, virtually always wrong, because they are one-part economists / nine-parts political hacks).

    Anyway, Bush’s stimulus was also a terrible idea and I kind of doubt you defended that. I think that makes you a partisan hack in the extreme.

  • sayanything-203

    Taking out a loan to buy your wife bigger boobs is bad debt. Financing your education or a home with debt isn’t.

    Dino,

    All you’ve done here is substitute your subjective judgment for someone else’s. Hardly very authoritative.

    Fact is, if more people had taken out loans for boob enhancement instead of student loans or mortgages, Fannie Mae, Freddie Mac, and Sallie Mae would not have gone insolvent requiring federal takeovers of each.

  • lock’em’up

    OK, Follow this:

    I think the real reason you support imports right now is, you want the unemployment rate to go higher and you want America to fail so you can say “I told you so” and the Cons can sneak back into power. … And then increase exports, decrease imports and support buying American.

  • sayanything-12

    LOL. Good show!

    Though skewing Dino is a bit like skewering a dead fish wrapped in a newspaper.

  • http://proof-proofpositive.blogspot.com/ proof_positive

    I should have said, “people with an intellect and a functioning brain aren’t driven from one ideology to another”.

    So, then, there’s no hope for you Dino? No surprise there!

  • sayanything-203

    My apologies for the typo!

  • sayanything-106

    Yes you can.

  • sayanything-15427

    So then why did Freddie and Fannie fail oh great one?

  • sayanything-203

    Dino,

    I think most people will agree that direct quotes from Secretaries Cisneros and Cuomo, and Frank Raines, and the New York Times and the Village Voice, are all a good deal more authoritative than your intellectually ectomorphic bleating.

  • sayanything-203

    That’s why I laugh when I think about the hell you and yours will go through.

    Dino,

    Sorry to spoil your fun, but me and mine enjoy a solid foundation of faith, education, self-sufficiency, and tax-free municipal bonds.

  • jdkchem

    Are you saying that all libturds are not ignorant liars?

  • jdkchem

    Stop lying. Lending standards were reduced as a direct result of nuisance law suits made possible by the CRA. Additionally people like Obama supporter and Golden West owner Sandler, were preying on sub-prime borrowers.

  • jdkchem

    For all those fictional voters in those 440 fictional congressional districts. This “stimulus” has paid nothing to anyone other than acorn and seiu. Peddle your lies over at PuffHo where you’ll fit in perfectly with the woman so revolting her husband chose to be gay.

  • lock’em’up

    Taxpayers won’t be able to pay the deficit if we keep shipping jobs overseas so that you can have nice cheap products.

    I think the real reason you support imports right now is, you want the unemployment rate to go higher and you want America to fail so you can say “I told you so” and the Cons can sneak back into power. … And then increase exports, decrease imports and support buying American.

  • jdkchem

    Try again stupid. Keynesian economics doesn’t work. Furthermore the debt you blame on Republicans was quadrupled by your precedent. Debt caused by useless turds like you.

  • http://proof-proofpositive.blogspot.com/ proof_positive

    Despite the myth, people aren’t driven from one ideology to another

    So, according to you, I’m still a McGovern Democrat?

    Don’t you ever get tired of being wrong, Dino?

  • sayanything-4625

    What consensus?

  • sayanything-4625

    One more time: republicans spent on lotto, beer and porn. This stimulus pays the rent, fixes the house and puts food on the table.

    Really, its not even a quarter spent so I guess the rent is late, the roof still leaks and we died of starvation. Lets look at some of the “food, rent and house fixin’”.

    http://www.recovery.gov/Pages/home.aspx

    http://watchdog.org/2009/11/17/6-4-billion-stimulus-goes-to-phantom-districts/

    We’ve paid out $218 billion. 78 Billion of that or around 35% was to by SS a computer database and pay seniors a one time $213.00 “benefit”. 28 billion or 13% has gone to Health and Human Services to upgrade hospitals IT computers. 82 Billion or 37%in various tax breaks. 6.4 billion or 3% has been spent in districts that don’t exist and no one knows where the funds actually are. If you go to the recovery web site you will see that latest awards go to hire an area coordinator, build a fish barrier in the Chicago Sanitary canal, build a fish ladder at John Day Lake, build a dorm at Minot Air Base, ACTIVE VIBRATION ISOLATION SYSTEM FOR MOBILE LAUNCH PLATFORM GROUND SUPPORT EQUIPMENT(NASA), EXTREMELY HIGH BANDWIDTH RAD HARD DATA ACQUISITION SYSTEM (NASA), LUNAR REGOLITH STABILIZATION FOR EXCAVATION (NASA).

    Whole bunch of food, rent and fixin’ in there. I could go on. That doesn’t even cover the salt marsh mouse, a guard rail for a dry lake bed and thousands of other projects.

  • lock’em’up

    Oh wow, I didn’t realize that you were a NAFTA fan. I guess you support favored nation status for China too.

    So, your thought process would mesh with, I’m ok spending $100 made in China by child labor instead of the same thing costing $103 made in the USA.

    If so, you are a greedy moron. If not, you contradict yourself.

  • jdkchem

    “The watershed moment was the 1992 Federal Housing Enterprises Financial Safety and Soundness Act, also known as the GSE Act. To comply with that law’s “affordable housing” requirements, Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac would acquire more than $6 trillion of single-family loans over the next 16 years.”

    They purchased toxic debt. You can go back to being Bawney Fwank’s “ball” boy.

  • jdkchem

    Lying scumbag strikes again. You’re wrong and continuing to lie does not make you any less wrong. Deal with it.

  • sayanything-4416

    I’ve explained the CRA to you idiots so many times I’m skipping this one.

    Let’s just say your eagerness to try and pin this on the poor is why I LOVE seeing you and yours suffer in this recession.

    And I’m glad your kids will face an UGLY future due to the greed-culture your support for conservatism created.

  • sayanything-4416

    Your thinking is the definition of naive.

    The government deficit spends in times of trouble to rescue the economy, keep society functioning and get it going again.

    People do the same. If you lose your job you don’t sell everything and live in a box. You go into debt until you’re on your feet again. You may even take on additional debt, such as for an education, to improve your situation and the chance of a better future.

    Sounds like most of the cons here could use that education in any case.

  • sayanything-4416

    The consensus is that the stimulus was a good idea and is working.

  • sayanything-4416

    All deficits aren’t bad.

    Taking out a loan to buy your wife bigger boobs is bad debt. Financing your education or a home with debt isn’t.

  • sayanything-4416

    For the same reason other investors who bought mortgage-backed derivatives did.

    F&F were forced to invest in home mortgages, particularly by the bush administration. When the loans being made were being snapped up by Wall Street due to many being sub-par and thus not available to F&F, they had to purchase the securities to meet their forced goals.

    Why don’t you turn it around and ask why Bear Stearns failed? Lehman? Why did they buy up all that bad debt, going so far as to open their own mortgage origination shops when the Countrywides of the world couldn’t provide them with enough? Were they forced to offer those loans? Did they have a death wish?

    It gets old trying to educate the ignorant conservatives.

  • sayanything-4416

    Simplistic conservatism strikes again.

    We’ve been over this.

  • sayanything-4416

    There were no direct quotes which laid the fault of the mortgage crisis at the feet of anyone but Wall Street.

  • sayanything-1317

    OK, OK, I know it’s like hitting a retarded puppy with a shovel. But in dino’s case it IS rabid, so I feel no sadness for clubbing it even more…

    http://www.interest.com/mortgage/federal_mortgage_programs_higher_limits.html

    Loans bought by Freddie Mac and Fannie Mae, the government-chartered companies that provide the financing for 70% of all mortgages.

    http://www.fanniemae.com/homebuyers/support-for-renters.html

    This link shows that no shortage of crap mortgages were bought by Fannie, and that they were used for rental properties. They offer to let renters stay there even if the property is foreclosed (which wouldn’t be possible if Fannie wasn’t buying all these bad loans).

    http://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2008/07/11/business/20080711_FANNIE_GRAPHIC.html

    Dino’s favorite source confirms that not only did Fannie buy all these bad loans…but they’re the ones who sold them to investors with a 100% guarantee they’d be paid. Why wouldn’t anyone buy 100% guaranteed free money?

    Fannie Mae takes mortgage loans from banks, in order to repackage them in the form of mortgage-backed securities. There are limits on the types and size of loans it can guarantee.
    Those mortgage-backed securities are sold to investors, and Fannie Mae guarantees that the loans will be repaid.
    Fannie Mae also borrows money from the debt markets, traditionally at a rate much lower than other banks, and uses it to buy mortgages it holds as its own investments. By buying these loans, Fannie injects new money into the housing economy.

    So NO ONE, not the NYT, not Fannie and Freddy, and not the Pelosi’s and Reids and Franks of the world agree with Dino’s imbecilic contention that F&F don’t provide money to make loans, and that they don’t buy loands after theyre made.

    You’re a terrible liar Dino.

  • sayanything-4416

    The mortgage crisis was caused by the repeal of Glass-Steagall which allowed Wall Street to collude with the banks to create mortgage-backed securities. When the legitimate loans had been made and packaged Wall Street needed more so the standards were lowered.

    If the CRA or F&F were responsible the problem would have occurred before 30 years had passed since the creation of the CRA.

    You will NEVER accept any other explanation other than “the poor people did it.” That’s why I laugh when I think about the hell you and yours will go through.

  • sayanything-4416

    Lending standards were relaxed to sell more home loans so Wall Street could make a fortune selling them as securities. The CRA is your feeble-minded conservative explanation.

    THis is why I am GLAD to see you and yours paying the price. And they will be for DECADES.

  • sayanything-4416

    They weren’t the first to fail. Not by a longshot. Bear Stearns was.

    The government had to bail out F&F since their GSEs. That’s the point!

    The toxic debt got in as I explained. Through the purchase of mortgage-backed securities. They HAD to find a way to purchase mortgages by charter. The MBSs were fraudulently rated by your PRIVATE SECTOR buddies.

    You people will NEVER accept that the failure in the financial sector was due to WALL STREET GREED and the PRIVATE SECTOR. It doesn’t compute in your limited worldview. The worldview where everything is the poor’s fault and the rich are GODS.

    That’s why I loved seeing those GODS a**rape you good last year!

  • sayanything-4416

    The debt doubled when republicans ran the whole show.

    I hope that doesn’t make your head explode.

  • sayanything-4416

    You can’t win this Kenny but I’m sure you think you already did.

    No matter. Your kids will pick up the tab for Wall Street. And their kids.

  • sayanything-4416

    They didn’t purchase the toxic debt.

  • sayanything-4416

    If one goes through the March update (pp. 6-7) and the August update (pp. 52-53) and adds up all the changes to the January estimate, you find that the deficit increase since January consists of $46 billion in lower than expected revenues due to the economy (11.5%), $129 billion in higher spending due to technical re-estimates (32.2%), and $226 billion due to legislative changes to both spending and revenues (56.3%).

    This suggests that we would have had a deficit of at least $1,361 billion this year even if McCain had won (January deficit plus lower revenues and technical changes and no legislative changes) … assuming no stimulus and that the economy would have performed as well without it.

    That’s only 14% less than the deficit currently projected. some of the legislative changes are due to higher defense spending and other non-stimulus related programs.

    If we assume that McCain’s stimulus would have been half the size of Obama’s that leaves us with an estimated deficit of $1,474 billion under McCain–only 7% less than the deficit now estimated.

  • sayanything-1317

    You didn’t win this Kenny, though I’m sure you think you did.
    They didn’t buy the loans.

    Jeez. Whoever am I to believe? YOU or the people at Fannie Mae that said they DID buy the subprime loans. Hmmmmm.

    No, wait…wait…

    It’s a REALLY hard call for me.

    I mean, it’s all over Fannie Mae’s site, and the quote I provided that they are in the subprime market, and that they buy subprime loans from the banks. It’s on Wikipedia, it’s even in David Brook’s columns. But you want me to believe that everybody in the world except you is wrong.

    Pass.

  • sayanything-1317

    So wait, they bought them, but for the same reason that other people bought them…but they didn’t buy them.

    That’s your argument in a nutshell right?

  • sayanything-4416
  • sayanything-4416

    F&F were losing market share to Wall Street. From your link:

    Unfortunately, Fannie Mae-quality, safe loans in the subprime market did not become the standard, and the lending market moved away from us.
    …………….
    As a result, we gave up significant market share to our competitors. At the same time, we continued our careful entry into the subprime market, by and large supporting lenders, products and practices that met our standards, and which helped us meet our HUD affordable housing requirements.

  • sayanything-4416

    PS. Do tell us why the commercial real estate market is failing. Did the CRA force lenders to give money to rich developers building office parks and business towers?

    LOL. You should call yourself Houdini if you can get out of that one.

  • sayanything-4416

    Reagan had a republican Senate for SIX of his eight years. Common misconception of the politically ignorant that reagan had a democrat-led Congress.

    I think that shows how little you know or understand.

    Go on and believe your mythology. That won’t bring back your retirement savings, your home value or brighten your childrens’ dim future thanks to your conservatism.

  • sayanything-1317

    Oh what the hell, one more.

    Same NYT article as before:

    Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac own or guarantee about half of the nation’s $12 trillion mortgage market.

    They own or guarantee half the market, and went down because of all the bad loans. But yea, they’re not even REMOTELY connected to the crisis.

    Double epic fail.

  • http://sayanythingblog.com robport

    You started off so well, and then your economic illiteracy manifested itself.

    There’s nothing wrong with imports. Eschewing cheaper and/or higher quality products to “buy local” makes about as much sense as the government picking and choosing who should and should not get tax payer funded grants.

    Everyone should be free to act in their own self interest. If I can save a hundred bucks buying a television made in China instead of the US that’s $100 more in my pocket.

    Capital flows on the path of least resistance. We need to limit government, not engage in protectionism.

  • sayanything-4416

    They wasted the money on junk.

    One more time: republicans spent on lotto, beer and porn. This stimulus pays the rent, fixes the house and puts food on the table.

    Besides, a small percentage of the deficit we’re experiencing is due to Obama and the stimulus.

    America’s Sea of Red Ink Was Years in the Making

  • http://sayanythingblog.com robport

    I have no need to change the subject. I’m just following the thread.

  • sayanything-4416

    Economics is complicated and doesn’t follow well-defined rules like calculus.

    Next time you need a doctor go see a tailor.

  • sayanything-4416

    Then you are seriously uneducated. You are a partisan hack pretending not to be one.

  • http://sayanythingblog.com robport

    You have to remember that in Dino’s world, Republican deficits = bad and Democrat deficits = good.

    IT doesn’t occur to him to consider all deficits to be bad.

  • http://sayanythingblog.com robport

    I’m convinced that you’re a conservative under cover commenting here to drive people away from liberalism.

    Keep it up!

  • sayanything-1317

    They say they purchased loans. Since we both quoted it, I’ll quote it again.

    We also applied our strict, 11-point anti-predatory lending standards to our loan purchases.

    Good try tho.

  • sayanything-4416

    F&F standards prevented them from buying the subprime loans that brought down the economy. Your links say that.

  • http://sayanythingblog.com robport

    I am all for pointing out to taxpayers that you can’t expect the government to do things for free. The more we ask the government to do the more the government will take from us.

    That being said, some stuff the government does we never asked for. I never asked to have Medicare. I never asked for Social Security.

  • sayanything-4416

    Despite the myth, people aren’t driven from one ideology to another. It’s nearly genetic for one to be either a selfish lout or a good citizen. The wiggle room is created by the self-serving middle who don’t know what they are and are mercenary in their support.

    When you get right down to it, we’re all liberals.

  • sayanything-1317

    10/10 Obama supporting opinion writers named David Brooks at the NYT agree!

    It MUST be true.

  • sayanything-1317

    The cry about outsourcing misses the point. There would be no outsourcing if not for misguided economic “management” that drives up costs.

    Some jobs are just not work the perks we want. Why pay someone 15 an hour, with health benefits, and unemployment benefits, with education and housing subsidies, and a month of paid vacation time per year, plus child rearing time off, plus…plus…plus…and then add in all the regulatory costs, the taxes, etc…when someone else will do it for 5 an hour with modest benefits, minimal taxes, and no regulation fees?

    In America, we cut out the legs of people with no skills who want to compete. If the experienced guy wants 10 an hour, the guy with no resume can say “I’ll do it for 5…” but then the government steps in and removes some of his bargaining power by saying “The minimum wage is 8.50″. The inexperienced guy loses out. If medical coverage becomes manditory, that’s another bargaining chip off the table.

  • sayanything-4416

    Fannie & Freddie did not buy subprime loans. The subprime loans were purchased by Wall Street firms. The loans originated with lenders not subject to the CRA. The insolvency was due to reduced lending standards of the private sector and the lack of regulation by government.

    Conservative mythology is so difficult to break.

  • http://sayanythingblog.com robport

    Yes, please lock ‘em. Follow in Dino’s footsteps as a shining example of liberalism.

  • http://sayanythingblog.com robport

    Uh, yeah. There was a “consensus” about human-caused global warming.

    SO, who pays for the deficits the “stimulus” spending creates? There’s a consensus on that too: The taxpayers. And the impact of that will far outweigh any good the “stimulus” spending did.

  • sayanything-1317

    Their links say they bought sub prime mortgages. They needed to be bailed out cause all their mortgages were bad.

    Sorry Dino, anyone who has a 1st grade understanding of 2 and 2 can put that together.

    But it’s ok. We’ll TOTALLY accept your word for it, even though you were lying through your teeth about F&F not buying Subprime mortgages. Back to silence fool.

  • sayanything-4416

    I should have said, “people with an intellect and a functioning brain aren’t driven from one ideology to another”. My mistake.

  • sayanything-4416

    As a result, we gave up significant market share to our competitors. At the same time, we continued our careful entry into the subprime market, by and large supporting lenders, products and practices that met our standards, and which helped us meet our HUD affordable housing requirements. We also applied our strict, 11-point anti-predatory lending standards to our loan purchases. Under this policy we reject, for example, loans the borrower can’t afford to pay from the start & loans with excessive points or fees & loans subject to mandatory arbitration & loans with abusive prepayment penalties & or loans with single-premium credit insurance or debt cancellation insurance. And, of course, any loans that are illegal.

    Fannie & Freddie did not purchase the loans that caused the problems. Those were promoted, purchased and packaged into investment derivatives by WALL STREET. Your post provides support for my contention.

  • sayanything-4416

    You’re learning, weak sister, and getting more strident in your responses.

    All these people want is failure out of bitterness and disappointment that their no-tax Utopia didn’t materialize. They’ll burn down the house out of spite.

  • sayanything-4416

    You can’t simply stop spending when the government is in debt. You must spend to get the economy moving.

    Debt caused by republicans, I might add.

  • sayanything-1317

    I’ll admit that I have’t read all of Dino’s links. But I have never read a link of Dino’s that supported his theories. His first post here I remember commenting on, he linked to 2 dozen articles that ALL contradicted his thesis.

    He just does the lawyer tactic of linking to a lot of stuff that he hopes no one ever clicks. Bury your opponent in links and hope they give up.

  • sayanything-4808

    A consensus in your diseased mind is the opinion of you. For most this would be arrogance which implied liability to judgment of its qualities by way of finding capability of being other.

    In your case it is merely another facet of your mental degeneracy.

    The public’s mind on this is that it needs to stop before the country is foreclosed on by China. Of course, they actually matter while you do not.

  • sayanything-4808

    If more liberals were like you, they and you would have all been put up against a wall years ago. Your relative uniqueness is one of the few things keeping you alive. That and your continuing cowardice in blathering here and not going to a tea party and daring to insult them to their faces.

    I’ll tell you this. I’d gladly suffer the debt of a whole new federal agency as long as its entire charter dedicated it to keeping you away from all forms of communication.

  • sayanything-4416

    The debt in this country is largely due to reagan, bush and bush. Particularly the last bush who DOUBLED THE DEBT IN SIX YEARS.

    You’ll NEVER escape that fact. NEVER.

  • sayanything-4416

    The majority of economists and financial experts disagree with you.

    Too bad your ignorance won’t make you any money. I know that’s all you people live for. You’d eat your mothers if you thought you’d shit money.

  • sayanything-4416

    Liberals weren’t in power over the last 30 years. Conservatism ruled supreme.

    And it failed miserably.

  • sayanything-4416

    The left didn’t control any part of this economy for 30 years. The republicans had complete control of the federal government and most of the states for most of the decade leading to the meltdown.

    Nothing was done. Nothing.

    Your superiority posturing falls flat when it’s apparent you haven’t read one thing that contradicts your deeply-held ignorance.

  • sayanything-4416

    Yes, I’m sure you shared that with Amelia Earhart while you were both having tea with Bigfoot.

    No one escaped except the top 1% and even they got hit a little.

  • sayanything-4416

    There’s lots of attempts to deflect blame. The Cuomo piece wasn’t so readily accepted:

    Andrew Cuomo Birthed Subprime Crisis–Or Maybe Not

    Basically, according to the article, Mr. Cuomo, now New York State attorney general, drove efforts by HUD to increase minority homeownership. His agency encouraged this by encouraging subprime lending. The subprime lending eventually led to the subprime crisis several years after Mr. Cuomo left HUD when the Clinton administration ended.

    That’s it, really: A place-holder Cabinet secretary who left office six years before the crisis started breaking is responsible because he wanted to increase minority homeownership. The rate-slashing Fed, predatory lenders, securities rating agencies, media cheerleaders, etc.–they’re largely off the hook because it all started with Mario Cuomo’s boy and his good intentions.

    We don’t buy it. If anything, Mr. Cuomo’s effects on what was to come were wholly unintentional. Note the very last sentence of The Voice’s massive story:

    He seems more comfortable at 50 in the state attorney general’s office than he has ever appeared in his public life, but the country will be living with his HUD mistakes, ill- or well-intended, for a long time to come. [emphasis ours]

  • sayanything-4416

    That’s an opinion piece by one of your Wall Street apologist hacks.

    Try reading this.

    You won’t read it or understand it if you do. Your limited intellect tells you all the problems of society are the fault of the poor. Simple people worship wealth and kneel before them. It’s because the simple worship money and things.

    Meanwhile, the rich have bent you over, had their way with you, your jobs, your retirement savings and your home values.

    And now they’re eyeing your kids.

    Makes me smile. Being a victim of one’s support for conservatism is the perfect happy ending for any story. Lots of them out there.

  • sayanything-4416

    Yes, ultimately the taxpayers will have to pay to rescue the economy they need to survive. They will have to pay for the goods and services they demanded from government and the expensive wars they supported.

    Too f’ing bad.

  • sayanything-4808

    You are the epitome of the human capacity for doing warp nine right into irony and not stopping to admire it. In your case, it would be for complete projection. In fact, I cannot remember you making a single accusation against conservatives or anyone here that was not copied directly from your own behavior. Every single thing you are guilty of, you immediately accuse conservatives of.

    I would have to guess that you’re on the verge of a complete crack-up and hope the Portland mental health authorities are keeping watch on you.

  • sayanything-221

    Is there anyone left in Washington who has worked in private industry?
    Is there anyone in Washington who ever founded a company and struggled to make it successful?

    With what is happening in our economy, cut these outrageous programs… government health care, cap and trade, useless stimulus…just stop it.
    Get money to citizens and business’s with tax cuts.

  • sayanything-1317

    A “conservative myth” that the people at Fannie Mae swear is 100% true.

    http://www.fanniemae.com/media/speeches/printthispage.jhtml?repID=/media/speeches/2007/speech_267.xml

    Fannie Mae has a history of working with lenders to serve families who don’t have perfect financial profiles. “Subprime” is, after all, simply the description of a borrower who doesn’t have perfect credit. We see it as part of our mission and our charter to make safe mortgages available to people who don’t have perfect credit. In the past several years, for example, we have designed mortgage options to give borrowers with blemished credit access to high-quality, low-cost, non-predatory loans. We also set conservative underwriting standards for loans we finance to ensure the homebuyers can afford their loans over the long term. We sought to bring the standards we apply to the prime space to the subprime market with our industry partners primarily to expand our services to underserved families.

    Unfortunately, Fannie Mae-quality, safe loans in the subprime market did not become the standard, and the lending market moved away from us. Borrowers were offered a range of loans that layered teaser rates, interest-only, negative amortization and payment options and low-documentation requirements on top of floating-rate loans. In early 2005 we began sounding our concerns about this “layered-risk” lending. For example, Tom Lund, the head of our single-family mortgage business, publicly stated, “One of the things we don’t feel good about right now as we look into this marketplace is more homebuyers being put into programs that have more risk. Those products are for more sophisticated buyers. Does it make sense for borrowers to take on risk they may not be aware of? Are we setting them up for failure?”

    As a result, we gave up significant market share to our competitors. At the same time, we continued our careful entry into the subprime market, by and large supporting lenders, products and practices that met our standards, and which helped us meet our HUD affordable housing requirements. We also applied our strict, 11-point anti-predatory lending standards to our loan purchases. Under this policy we reject, for example, loans the borrower can’t afford to pay from the start & loans with excessive points or fees & loans subject to mandatory arbitration & loans with abusive prepayment penalties & or loans with single-premium credit insurance or debt cancellation insurance. And, of course, any loans that are illegal.

    So in other words, Fannie Mae was definately in the subprime loan market. So if it’s a “myth”, then Fannie Mae is clearly a self deluded fairy godmother.

  • sayanything-4416

    If only more liberals were like me we’d have buried the conservative movement for good this year. Too bad there are still many who think they can reason with conservatives.

  • sayanything-4416

    The subprime loans that brought down the economy were purchased by Wall Street investment houses.

    Otherwise, what took them down?

    The subprime loans that had loose lending standards originated with private lenders and the loans were not directly purchased by F&F.

  • http://sayanythingblog.com robport

    You can’t simply stop spending when the government is in debt

    Ha. The very definition of cognitive dissonance.

    The government is in debt! Let’s spend more money!

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