Why Would We Extend Unemployment Benefits?

As the Senate gears itself up to attach all sorts of additional, and unnecessary, pork spending to the “economic stimulus” legislation that is really just a check from the government that will do little to stimulate the economy, one of the provisions looking to be tacked on is a federal extension of unemployment benefits.
Keep in mind that state unemployment insurance already covers about 26 weeks of being unemployed.

Several GOP senators backed the proposal to extend unemployment payments for 13 weeks for those whose benefits have run out, with 26 more weeks available in states with the highest jobless rates. Some also have asked for more business tax breaks.
“Many of these additions have bipartisan support, and I hope that the president will recognize that the White House needs to negotiate with the Senate as well as the House,” said Sen. Susan M. Collins, R-Maine, who backs both the rebates for seniors and the unemployment extension.
Sen. Olympia J. Snowe, R-Maine, a Finance Committee member, called the unemployment extension “critical” and said she supported ensuring that the rebates reached the elderly.
Under Senate plan, some 20 million senior citizens not covered by the House plan because they don’t have income would receive rebates.

Got that? We’re going to rebate tax dollars to people who never paid those tax dollars in the first place. Again, that’s not a rebate. That’s just a check from the government intended to buy the love of the citizenry.
Anyway, back to the unemployment situation: Why are we doing this? Are we really saying that 26 weeks, about 6 1/2 months of unemployment benefits isn’t enough? We’re going to extend that out to over a year (in some situations)?
I understand the thinking behind unemployment insurance. It lets a worker keep paying the bills until a new job can be secured, and that’s not a bad objective. But I think we’re meeting that objective already with the unemployment insurance we have now and see little need to extend it, which would ultimately just give workers incentive to put off getting another job for longer.
I’m fine with helping people who legitimately need help. I’m not fine with helping those who won’t help themselves.

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  • http://Array pparets

    Rebate checks to folks who never paid taxes is election year pandering of the lowest form. They never paid taxes because we have already put a tax policy in place which benefits them as low-income households.

    The unemployment benefits issue is another matter. The old north-east industrial corridor – Chicago, Detroit, Cleveland, Pittsburg, Baltimore, Hartford – has seen the loss of hundreds of thousands of jobs in the last ten years, partially due to our appetite for foreign products and the effects of NAFTA.

    Not only are the jobs gone, there are no new ones to take up the slack. Under those circumstances, a modest extension of unemployment benefits is not unreasonable.

  • Spartacus

    So you’re used to having your arse handed to you?

  • http://www.valleydeals.com/cgi-bin/board2/YaBB.pl Kevin

    Just extend unemployment until the slackers are eligible for social security.

  • http://SayAnythingBlog.com The_Whistler_ofnd

    I don’t think making it overly lucrative to stay home is going to help the economy much.

  • tricia

    my unemployment check is 1/3 of my former income. 1430 monthly It only covers the basics. I have no mortgage, car note, or children. I cant imagine how those who have these things are surviving. I have been employed since I was 12 and am now almost 30-with a masters degree. No one wants to live check to check or under these conditions.

  • Tuna

    Increasing the minimum wage has historically spiked unemployment–even that sleazy ploy doesn’t appear to be materializing for Dems–

  • http://sayanythingblog.com/readers/author/Anna/ Anna

    How does this differ from the current benefits of 26 weeks of initial benefits, with an extension of 13 weeks, with the possibility of an additional 13 week extension for those who are eligible?
    Please …tell me it’s not an additional 13 onto the 52 weeks already available to some. :roll:

  • http://ewebsmith.com/ ews48

    It is baffling. If those unemployment figures include those who’s unemployment benefits have run out, why would they do this?

    Maybe they know something that you don’t get from the numbers that they generate. Maybe it’s a guilt thing.

  • pparets

    ?? You lost me… Whistler

  • http://sayanythingblog.com/ likwidshoe

    pparets – If someone is using or sharing my IP, thats just scary!

    If I may ask, do you use AOL for Internet access?

    I don’t think you have anything to worry about. Your IP address changes more times in a week than mine does in an entire year. The worst that you will run into is a block from certain websites or a block on editing Wikipedia entries. In fact, most of your IP addresses are blocked from editing Wikipedia entries, so no anonymous editing for you. You can see this for yourself. Go here to get your IP address and then plug that number into Google. The first result is Wikipedia which tells you that no further edits are allowed for that IP address.

    I think I jumped the gun on this one. Sorry pparets and Kevin. No offense meant.

  • Denaile

    A wise man once said ” There is nothing worse than ignorance and conscious stupidity!” Shouldn’t you people be preparing for work in the morning? You just may end up collecting unemployment insurance yourself, job security is not promised to anyone.

  • Denaile

    I choose my fights I don’t let my fights choose me!!

  • http://SayAnythingBlog.com The_Whistler_ofnd

    Me Neither.

  • http://SayAnythingBlog.com The_Whistler_ofnd

    That’s right Lik, it’s not a conspiracy and Rob’s not part of it.

  • http://www.valleydeals.com/cgi-bin/board2/YaBB.pl Kevin

    Kevin: When you are using your AOL browser, do you ever have difficulty submitting a comment to SAB?

    Yes, I’ve noticed that, particularly if there are already several comments posted, mine will not post.
    That’s why I always try to copy my post before I submit it, so I can just paste it and post it again.

  • http://www.valleydeals.com/cgi-bin/board2/YaBB.pl Kevin

    That’s where the “saving for a rainy day” concept comes into play.

  • pparets

    Kevin: Might have to agree with you on this one. Tricia didn’t provide much information, but based on what she gave, we can assume that:

    Prior to her job loss, she was making approximately $4,300 a month with no mortgage, car payment or dependents. A ‘rainy day fund’ over the last 5 – 6 years would certainly be of help to her now and should have been relatively easy for her to accumulate.

    But Tricia is quite right when she asks how a couple with children, mortgage, and a car payment could survive on $1430 monthly for very long. For them, even a modest RDF would have been difficult to build during the ‘good times’.

  • pparets

    Whistler: “Sit in front of TV” Thats not how it is when a man who has worked all his life loses his job.

    Unemployment benefits are not the same thing as welfare.

  • pparets

    So, subsistance-level, temporary unemployment benefits are an incentive to be unemployed? I don’t think so.

    I am pretty sure you care about the plight of the unemployed to the degree that I do.

    What I really care about is the effect of unemployment on the nation’s macro-economy. Forclosures, lost purchasing power and credit-debt do not bode well for our market economy.

  • pparets

    A six month extension is far from modest… Really? Lets ask some of the decent, hard-working folks whose lives have been shattered by the evolution of our economy. I wonder if they will worry about the loss of our status?

  • pparets

    Kevin: When you are using your AOL browser, do you ever have difficulty submitting a comment to SAB?
    [btw: I have and use Fios]

  • carrick

    and have never stepped foot in the beautiful State of ND

    Proof enough.

    OK just kidding. Western ND: TRNP is both awesome and awe inspiring. Eastern ND: Flat and there be corn there.

    Any other places in ND that you Nodaks think are particularly scenic?

  • pparets

    Kevin: Gulp! You are way over my head here. I still correct my script with white-out. I can barely read my monitor now. :)

    But I am glad to know the SAB posting problem isn’t just me.

    Thanks for the info.

  • http://SayAnythingBlog.com The_Whistler_ofnd

    The unemployment rate is lower now than any time in Bill Clinton’s first term. If I remember right he spent all of 95 and 96 bragging about his economic record.

    Click on the little dinosaur next to the unemployment rate and select a period of at least 20 years. There’s 60 years of data there to compare with.

    Then try telling me that we’ve got an unemployment problem.

  • pparets

    “Our economy has evolved.” No argument from me there. But a very large number of workers have been affected in serious ways by the shift from an industrial base.

    Protectionism is a proven failed policy. Job retraining programs are notoriously expensive and largely ineffective. Relocating huge numbers of people is simply unrealistic.

    A modest extension of unemployment benefits – the topic of this blog – seems like an appropriate short-range response.

  • http://SayAnythingBlog.com The_Whistler_ofnd

    No fault of their own.

    I would say an union member is more at fault than myself.

  • laydownSally

    Snowe and Collins are great examples of what to expect when you are an elected Repubican in a very liberal state.

    This socialist mentality will be commonplace in the next four years.

  • http://SayAnythingBlog.com The_Whistler_ofnd

    That would mean he was employed wouldn’t it?

  • carrick

    Likwidshoe, wouldn’t the owner of the IP address tell you a lot?

    If it’s a cable company, then chances are they are just sharing a modem.

    Actually I kind of like pparets commentary. Don’t get too hard on him.

  • http://manoffireandlight.blog.co.uk/ ManofFireandLight

    and become more like France and Germany.

    Just hope you don’t end up like the UK. Until recently, we’ve had people making a career out of living on benefits. Just at the end of last year (Red) Gordon announced that anyone claiming unemployment benefits for longer than six months would have to participate in community service to get any money at all. Hopefully that’ll persuade the money grabbing bastards to get a job.

  • pparets

    Yes.

  • http://SayAnythingBlog.com The_Whistler_ofnd

    through no fault of their own.

    The financial troubles of the car makers has numerous sources, not the least of which are the management of the companies. I for one have always bought US made cars. From some troubles I’m having with a current vehicle to some of the public stances of the car companies (gay pride sponsorships, CAPS on CO2 etc) I’m likely not to buy US for my next vehicle.

    Others to be blamed are environmentalists and Washington regulations as well as liberals in the state government.

    But you can’t say that a union member has no responsibility or fault for the demise of the American car companies. They’ve done their share to screw up their jobs.

  • Bat One

    The economy rolled uphill when the Big Dog was in charge…

    WOOF,

    I’m aware that finance and economic policy aren’t exactly your strong suits, so perhaps you’d like to “revise and extend” your remarks… before someone else does it for you.

  • http://SayAnythingBlog.com The_Whistler_ofnd

    Pparents: Sitting around waiting for your job to come back is NOT a valid career move.

    I’m not against job insurance because it has a valid economic purpose. But extending benefits isn’t going to change reality.

    On the other hand paying unemployment benefits indefinitely works out to about the same as welfare does it not?

  • http://SayAnythingBlog.com The_Whistler_ofnd

    subsistance-level, temporary unemployment benefits are an incentive to be unemployed? I don’t think so.

    They allow the person to sit in front of the TV feeling sorry for themselves rather than doing something, anything.

    Getting a job at Walmart is better than that.

    ?? You lost me… Whistler

    We were talking about union members who lost their cushy jobs. In my opinion the unions have much of the blame for losing their jobs. Who is the union?…The members of course.

    Playing this guy as a victim while expecting me to subsidize his Oprah time is wrong in so many ways.

  • http://SayAnythingBlog.com The_Whistler_ofnd

    So they wouldn’t be slackers then?

  • http://SayAnythingBlog.com The_Whistler_ofnd

    Maybe they know something that you don’t get from the numbers that they generate.

    I think it’s two things. First and foremost its about politics in an election year.

    Secondly there are some states that are in worse shape. In my opinion it’s because of local liberal policies driving out the productive but for whatever reason the people aren’t going to find jobs without relocating.

  • pparets

    No, they wouldn’t be. Merely in deep financial difficulty through no fault of their own.

  • http://sayanythingblog.com/ likwidshoe

    Kevin/pparets/Margie – are you really three people who live together? Or are we in multiple personality territory here?

    Take no offense here, but this is the way I see it: Margie the widow of a truck driver was verbose and usually pretty damn polite, Kevin the North Dakotan doesn’t say much in his comments and always stays polite, while pparets can be a bit of a shit-talking rabble rouser. Margie was in the middle of the road, Kevin seems to be solidly conservative, and pparets is solidly conservative. I can see Kevin and pparets being split personalities, but Margie throws that split personality into very different multiple personality territory.

    I’m just too curious not to say anything.

  • pparets

    Likwidshoe: As`a matter of fact, yes, I do. And recently, after I link to one or more threads on SAB, I have to sign-off, clean out cookies, history, IE activity, etc, and then sign back on to enter a comment. Its a pain in the rear….

    Any suggestions?

  • pparets

    Rob & Likwidshoe:

    From the Fargo area.

    Yikes! Last time I checked, I live about 2,500 miles east of Fargo and have never stepped foot in the beautiful State of ND. Hold on…

    Whew! Just went and looked out my living room window and the Atlantic Ocean is still there!

    If someone is using or sharing my IP, thats just scary!

    Carrick:

    I kind of like pparets commentaries

    Thanks! I do too… actually I like most of the commentaries on SAB, except when they disagree with me…. :)

  • Bat One

    WOOF,

    I haven’t forgotten you, so don’t despair. I have a workout and a karate class (you remember those, don’t you?) this evening, but I’ll happy to fill in those details about the Clinton economic accomplishments… far more so than RBB could tell us about Mr. Clinton’s national defense and nuclear non-proliferation efforts!

  • http://sayanythingblog.com/ likwidshoe

    Kevin/pparets/Margie (a regular who hasn’t commented since last year) – it’s one hell of a coincidence that you guys all share the same IP addresses. Not just one, mind you, but all of them. IP addresses rotate, but not like this. I’m talking a good 20+ different IP addresses here.

    What are you doing? All hitting up the same library? Are you guys roomates?

    Don’t kid us. You just got caught.

  • carrick

    Liberals also start the Bush administration economic performance plots from 2000, rather than ascribe those to Clinton either. So apparently there’s nothing inconsistent with this two year shift.

  • Randy

    Folks, nowadays, a rainy day fund may require a year of more worth of accessible savings and here’s why…

    companies now leave expensive areas (see Boston-to-DC corridor) to places in Texas and NC without hesitation. Once that occurs, the time it takes to find comparable or even sub-comparable work may require moving and changing locations.

    All and all, I don’t see how extending unemployment would be such a bad thing because for the most part, much of it will be used to pay the credit card minimums during the search for new work. Realize, the typical laid off worker isn’t a welfare/dole queen-king but a once productive member of society.

  • http://SayAnythingBlog.com The_Whistler_ofnd

    WA WA WAH! It’s up to everyone else to support me. You already had HOW many months sitting on your fanny rather than finding a job?

  • Denaile

    No, but it sound like you know a lot about the profession. I would love to stay and play but I have a life to live!

  • http://SayAnythingBlog.com The_Whistler_ofnd

    I love these maroons that jump in without any argument whatsoever.

    All they can do is try to turn it as a personal attack.

    If you don’t have a point then keep it to yourself. :)

  • Deanna Smith

    The person writing this article undoubtedly has a “cushy” position as a writer, and also is earning a good salary at this time. Try being unemployed for 4 or 5 months, desparately looking for a job, with bills to pay and children to feed. I’m certain the opinion to not extend unemployment benefits would change very quickly if he were hungry. Scum like the writer of said article make me sick!

  • http://SayAnythingBlog.com The_Whistler_ofnd

    Not only are the jobs gone, there are no new ones to take up the slack.

    Sitting around and waiting for jobs to reappear in those socialist mecca’s in futile to say the least.

    At some point these folks need to realize they need to adapt. They’ll be better off when they make the changes. So these unemployment benefits need to be tied into adapting.

  • robert108

    Rob: You’re right about the cycles, but consider this: market forces would tend to mitigate unemployment due to the temporarily lower wages that would be paid, but we have minimum wage laws that prevent this correction, thus lengthening the period of unemployment, just like the New Deal lengthened the Depression.

  • http://sayanythingblog.com/ likwidshoe

    It’s the consistent history that raised my eyebrows. The database is big enough to have one commenter have the same IP as a commenter before him, but that’s usually in a span of months. It happens and it is fairly common. But we’re talking minutes here.

    Also, it’s a bit less than 300,000 because the IPs are from September 2006 onward. That was when this blog changed to the ExpressEngine format and when the reader blogs came online.

    And for the record, I wasn’t looking for this. I had no reason to doubt those two and Margie is a distant memory. The numbers jumped out.

    Maybe it has something to do with how AOL web proxies work. Maybe different regions use the same proxies. I would like to believe that because Margie, Kevin and pparets are the ‘good people’ type.

  • http://sayanythingblog.com/ likwidshoe

    Likwidshoe, wouldn’t the owner of the IP address tell you a lot?

    AOL web proxies. They change all of the time.

    It’s odd that these three people always have the same AOL web proxies. Just curious is all.

  • carrick

    WOOF:

    Don’t be shy , tell us how awful the economy was when Bill was in charge.

    Or for the two years preceding the taking into effect of Clinton’s fiscal policy in 1994, to the extent that this ever existed.

  • robert108

    Try being unemployed for 4 or 5 months, desparately looking for a job, with bills to pay and children to feed.

    No thanks.

  • pparets

    Kevin: Thanks! For a minute I forgot that a laid-off auto worker working nights at Walmart while his wife cleans houses during the day to feed the kids and delay foclosure are really just slackers.

    How silly of me. Please pass the foix gras.

  • http://proof-proofpositive.blogspot.com/ proof_positive

    Bush the Greater lost to Bill because “it’s the economy stupid”

    So you are saying that Clinton lying about the already recovering economy won him the election, among those stupid enough to believe him?

  • http://proof-proofpositive.blogspot.com/ proof_positive

    Don’t be shy , tell us how awful the economy was when Bill was in charge.

    When Bill was bragging about the longest uninterrupted economic growth in the history of the US, he always started his figures from the last two years of the prior Bush administration!
    (The years he claimed at the time were the worse since the Great Depression)
    I guess it’s according to what your definition of “is” is?

  • http://www.valleydeals.com/cgi-bin/board2/YaBB.pl Kevin

    I think I jumped the gun on this one. Sorry pparets and Kevin. No offense meant.

    And some people have told me I have too much time on my hands! LOL!
    AOL isn’t my ISP, but it is my email client, so I usually post here from the AOL browser.

  • http://sayanythingblog.com/ likwidshoe

    Any suggestions?

    The only one off of the top of my head is to use a proxy server to get around the fact that you have a dynamic IP Internet service provider. All hits to this website, and every other for that matter, would then come from the IP of the proxy server. But you’re looking at a speed performance hit if you do that. Most proxies are pretty damn slow. I’ll look into it and let you know if I find anything out.

    A Google search shows that the AOL floating IPs have given a lot of people headaches.

  • pparets

    Actually, I didn’t say that union members don’t share the blame. Just remember, in states like Michigan, you must join the union.

  • http://sayanythingblog.com robport

    Ah, I see. So because I oppose what I consider to be an immodest extension of government entitlements I obviously don’t care as much for hard-working but under-employed Americans as you do.

    Safety nets, to an extent, are all well and good. But we must also remember that they encourage risky behavior, and abuse of the system. If we extend unemployment benefits we’re going to get more unemployment.

    It’s as simple as that.

  • http://sayanythingblog.com robport

    The unemployment benefits issue is another matter. The old north-east industrial corridor – Chicago, Detroit, Cleveland, Pittsburg, Baltimore, Hartford – has seen the loss of hundreds of thousands of jobs in the last ten years, partially due to our appetite for foreign products and the effects of NAFTA.

    Not only are the jobs gone, there are no new ones to take up the slack. Under those circumstances, a modest extension of unemployment benefits is not unreasonable.

    Our economy has evolved. We’ve come out of our manufacturing age, and those industrial jobs have moved to countries that are still going through theirs.

    If we engaged in the sort of protectionist policies it would take to keep those jobs in America it would cripple our economy. Lower income people who were once able to afford luxury goods like flat-screen televisions and laptops wouldn’t be able to get them any more because paying Americans to make them would drive up prices.

    I, personally, take pride that I live in a place so free and so affluent that I can go down to my local retailers and comparison shop from a variety of products made all over the globe.

    That’s free trade, baby.

  • http://sayanythingblog.com robport

    Lik, with the database nearing 300,000 total comments it perhaps isn’t surprising that we’re seeing duplicate IP addresses being used by people who simply share an ISP.

    I wouldn’t worry about it.

  • http://sayanythingblog.com robport

    A modest extension of unemployment benefits – the topic of this blog – seems like an appropriate short-range response.

    Except, it won’t be a short-range response. And adding another six months of unemployment insurance – bringing the total available to a year – isn’t modest in any sense of the word.

    America has one of the lowest rates of people who have been out of work for less than a year in the entire world. If we extend out unemployment insurance, we’re going to lose that status and become more like France and Germany.

  • http://sayanythingblog.com robport

    Markets are cyclical. We’re in boom times right now, but some corrections in the housing market and suddenly all the ninnies are hanging from the drapes.

    I agree that massive amounts of unemployment are bad for our market economy, but do you really think the answer to our (currently non-existent) unemployment problem is to raise taxes on people who are working, and the businesses that are employing them, in order to enbiggen unemployment entitlements?

    Methinks you need to rethink this.

  • http://sayanythingblog.com robport

    Any other places in ND that you Nodaks think are particularly scenic?

    Soutwestern ND. The Medora area.

    It’s the land that turned Teddy Roosevelt into a man.

  • http://sayanythingblog.com robport

    Lik, it’s not that coincidental when you consider that both Kevin and Pparets are from the Fargo area (I think).

    Not sure where Margie’s from though, but I think it’s Virginia.

    Regardless, if they’re all using AOL the fact that they’ve each shared an IP now and then isn’t that surprising.

  • WOOFX

    Bush the Greater lost to Bill because “it’s the economy stupid”

    The economy rolled uphill when the Big Dog was in charge, unemployment going to the lowest point in 30 years <4%.

    It’s still the economy…..

  • WOOFX

    Go ahead “revise and extend” Bat.
    Don’t be shy , tell us how awful the economy was when Bill was in charge.

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