Why Price Gouging Isn’t Always A Bad Thing

When natural disasters strike there’s always a lot of hand-wringing about price gouging from retailers, but the truth is that price gouging is a natural function of the market that keeps stuff like this from happening:

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Supermarkets throughout the New Orleans area clear their shelves of perishable food items as Hurricane Gustav continues its approach towards Louisiana on Saturday.

Those supermarkets that are running out of products no doubt kept their prices at regular levels lest they invoke the wrath of some pandering, marauding politician who would slap them with lawsuits and/or punitive legislation. But the simple fact is that these stores might not have run out of product so quickly, and might have been able to provide a lot more customers with the products they need, if they had been allowed to adjust prices in the face of spiking demand.
Think about it for a moment. No store is going to raise their prices so high that they won’t sell anything. Instead, most retailers will simply seek to maximize profits. Which means selling the maximum amount of volume at the highest possible margin. Economics 101 tells us that when demand goes up prices should go up too for good reasons.
First, high prices force conservation. Instead of a handful of rich customers buying up more than they need, so that people who come later or who can’t afford to buy in such volume are left with little or nothing to choose from, higher prices force conservation so that there’s more for everybody.
Second, customers aren’t the only people who run into shortages during natural disasters. In order to keep shelves full stores must bring in new product from elsewhere, and in the midst of a disaster such transport costs can skyrocket. Since empty stores don’t do anyone any good, allowing stores to take more in profits in order to deal with the increased expense involved with keeping the shelves full just makes sense.
Sadly, far too few people are willing to look at this issue objective. Instead, they get angry at higher prices and demand punitive action from the government. And, as with most government action, that punitive action just exacerbates the problem.

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  • http://Array robert108

    It’s actually Econ 101, rbb; it’s called the Law of Supply and Demand, where price is the rationing factor. I know it’s beyond your pay grade(and IQ).

  • robert108

    Rob: Higher prices during a supply shortage isn’t “price gouging”, it’s the signal to produce more supply.
    Two basic transaction rules:

    One: All transactions are voluntary in our system.

    Two: Things are worth what people are willing to pay for them, in our system.

  • http://sayanythingblog.com/readers/author/realitybasedbob/ realitybasedbob

    Nutterism 101.

  • http://SayAnythingBlog.com The_Whistler_ofnd

    I don’t mind as much the government coming in with potable water and emergency supplies.

    But if you think somehow those things are free or delivered in a cost effective manner you’re an idiot.

    People that don’t take a smattering interest in stocking up on a few days supplies divert resources from people who need help worse than they do.

    Stupid is as stupid does.

  • http://SayAnythingBlog.com The_Whistler_ofnd

    How much does it cost the government to supply emergency supplies?

    It’s pretty clear to anyone who wants to think about it that they are costing far more than the “gouging” prices of the retailers.

    By the way, what I’ve seen is that very few retailers actually gouge their regular customers. (Of course my experience with disasters has been limited.) I don’t think the retailers want to alienate their regular customers.

    What does happen is people who show up to make money by supplying needed supplies are demonized even though their costs to enter the area are high enough to justify the increased costs.

    So instead of getting what they need the government keeps people out.

  • carrick

    If you need evidence of the bankruptcy of WOOF’s position it’s that he needs a picture show to accompany his arguments. Apparently his arguments can’t stand on their own two feet.

    Nor can WOOF apparently, since he has trouble distinguishing between people in real need and the general douche bag behavior of people who are waiting for other people to wipe their ass for them.

  • http://sayanythingblog.com/ likwidshoe

    “realitybased”bob reminds us of who the fascists are,

    If they double or triple the cost of bread after a natural disaster they are fucking asshole disaster profiteers and I spit on them.

    These economically illiterate fascists call their worldview “HOPE”.

  • http://SayAnythingBlog.com The_Whistler_ofnd

    emergency funds spent by the government generally goes to contractors and vendors who provide the goods and services needed to address the crisis; thus the money makes it’s way back into the market-place.

    To the degree that it costs more to provide the same service (vs a can of SPAM purchased at Walmart) then the difference is lost to the community.

    Frankly a statement that we are somehow gaining from government waste is an enormous amount of ignorance. Perhaps you just had a moment where you weren’t thinking.

  • robert108

    First, price gouging during natural disasters is a finger in the eye to everyday people.

    Wrong on both counts; it’s not “price gouging”, it’s the way the Law of Supply and Demand works; and it’s the fastest way to recover from the supply crisis.
    Again:
    All transactions are voluntary.
    Things are worth what people are willing to pay for them.

    If you could only learn those two simple truths, you might know something.

  • robert108

    BW: Good call! The free market is all about survival of the fittest, and the lying lefties just can’t stand that. Don’t expect hypocrites to be internally consistent. They have fundamental double standards about everything.

  • http://sayanythingblog.com/readers/author/realitybasedbob/ realitybasedbob

    First, price gouging during natural disasters is a finger in the eye to everyday people. Instead of sharing the basic necessities with everyone in need (fellow Americans — your neighbors who support your business during the year), rich customers can come in and buy up everything so that people just barely getting by find either nothing on the shelves or by necessity, pay the gougers greed.

    Price gougers are Anti American scumbags on a rung just below terrorists.

    When the hurricane comes you are out of potable water and your child needs milk just remember: “If you can’t afford it you don’t deserve it.”

    Filthy scumbag.

  • robert108

    Sparkie: Why was there a shortage of generators? You’re such an idiot. There is no “gouging”; there’s only lack of forethought. If it’s so expensive to repair, why not spend less to be prepared? You seem to be ignorant of that.

    rbb: There you go again, twisting to smear. I was talking about discretionary spending, but then you always lie and smear, so the truth doesn’t matter to you.
    If you live in hurricane country, you should be prepared for what that means. Duh.

  • http://bullwinkleblog.com/ Bullwinkle

    Oops, why did I spin what you lying sack of shit?

  • ollie-B

    You conservatives will say anything to justify your inhumanity to man.

  • carrick

    Just another demonstration of how removed from understanding reality, “reality based” goofballs like RBB are.

  • http://sayanythingblog.com/readers/author/realitybasedbob/ realitybasedbob

    Image and video hosting by TinyPic

    When the hurricane comes you are out of potable water and your child needs milk just remember: “If you can’t afford it you don’t deserve it.”

  • http://bullwinkleblog.com/ Bullwinkle

    Your gun and your water will be taken from your cold dead hands.

    That’d sound likw a threat if it wasn’t coming from a parasitic Marxist that couldn’t take anything from anyone.

  • carrick

    People operate out of self interest. It’s a basic fact of human nature that even you follow, as is demonstrated by your daily shilling for the Democratic party…

  • robert108

    That’s why there are laws against disaster price gouging.

    Wrong; that’s why socialism/Marxism doesn’t work.

  • http://sayanythingblog.com/readers/author/realitybasedbob/ realitybasedbob

    Gee I’m sorry C, I forgot that nutters don’t see shades of grey. Here, does this help clear things up for you:

    Image and video hosting by TinyPic

    When the hurricane earthquake tornado tsunami flood levee break power outage gop control of 3 branches of government blizzard foreign army invades and occupies your country comes and you are out of potable water and your child needs milk just remember: “If you can’t afford it you don’t deserve it.”

  • http://bullwinkleblog.com/ Bullwinkle

    Why did I spin, lying sack of shit?

  • robert108

    Economics 101 tells us that when demand goes up prices should go up too for good reasons.

    Not exactly; prices increase until the increased demand is met with increased supply, then they go down again. The price signal is what allows the market to adjust to fluctuating demand.

    BTW, looks like Woof left the bold tag unclosed. Shame on you!

  • pparets

    Knowing in advance that I will get my head handed to me, I have to say that I find deliberate profiteering – price-gouging – in a disaster to be repugnant and exploitative.

    When your house has collapsed, members of your family are sick or injured, and no electricty, food or water is to be found, and with your insurance pay-off weeks – if not months – away, profiteering must be the ultimate, avoidable outrage.

    I firmly believe that the free-market system should be free of as many regulations as possible. But on this issue? Fine or, if necessary, arrest those who deliberately profit from the vulnerability of others in an emergency.

  • robert108

    I realize victims of earthquakes don’t have the luxury that those along the Gulf Coast currently have. You could even throw victims of tornados in that mix as well.

    You lefties need victims to sell your dependency to. Very transparent.

  • http://sayanythingblog.com/readers/author/realitybasedbob/ realitybasedbob

    Image and video hosting by TinyPic

    That milk is 9 dollars a gallon boy – don’t blame me, blame the free market, you want paper or plastic?

  • robert108

    You marxists know who is really guilty of price gouging? Those ‘poor’ people making minimum wage who got an increase legislated to enable the government to raise it.

    How about the greedy govt that charges more taxes on a gallon of gas than the oil companies make bringing it to us, and the greedy govt doesn’t do anything for us?

  • robert108

    Because raising profits to balance supply and demand is criminal.

    That is an incorrect statement. Someone is confusing “prices” with “profits”; they are not the same thing, although Marxists think so.

  • http://insanereindeer.blogspot.com/ Kenny

    If the banks can prevent temporary losses (a low week for example) by basing their assets on models temporarily… why the fuck can’t stores keep their prices consistent during a crisis? If the banks get the soft treatment on this and the average Joe gets fucked, something is wrong. Welfare handouts for the banks, consistency of value for the banks… but fuck the poor people.

    It’s not quite the same thing. Banks aren’t exactly the same as a physical inventory site. For example, banks deal with electronic more than physical money. A specific branch may not have the money to cover a loan, but can still cover the loan because other banks have it. Giving someone a money order, check, or electronic transfer, they can deal with funds they do not physically have.

    If a grocery store has 500 loaves of bread…they have 500 loaves of bread. Once they run out, it’s gone. They can’t phone in a loaf. They can give a rain check, even for free bread. But if the person needs it NOW, that doesn’t help them. Now, if it’s just normal supply and demand, the person can go elsewhere. If it’s a disaster economy, it could be weeks before new food gets in. People can’t get by without food or drink.

    Your analogy is bad.

  • carrick

    Closer to 150 million when you count Mao and Uncle Joe’s totals I think.

  • Hannitized
  • http://sayanythingblog.com/readers/author/realitybasedbob/ realitybasedbob

    They are not conservitves.

  • http://insanereindeer.blogspot.com/ Kenny

    Gee I’m sorry C, I forgot that nutters don’t see shades of grey. Here, does this help clear things up for you:

    I hope the irony in claiming there are no shades of grey, then calling everyone who disagrees with you evil doesn’t escape you Bob.

    The unfortunate truth is, gouging saves lives. The effect of a cheap emergency solvant can be seen every year in the first snowfall. Everybody and their uncle runs out and buys as many bags of rocksalt and icemelt as they can, not to mention cheap groceries. It’s literally a matter of first come first serve. Some businesses are so stupid as to drop prices on the items needed and get completely cleaned out. Then everyone else is screwed.

    If a limited item, that can’t be replenished because of an emergency, goes away, what happens to everyone else who needs it? They do without. When food runs out, and no new food can get in…people starve to death. When they can’t get clean drinking water, they die of thirst. If they need a generator to run vital machery, it stays off instead. So while some lucky schmuck has 5 gallons of milk, you have a family without ANY.

    In the snow example, it’s no big deal. Most people can shovel their drive way enough to get out. The elderly, disabled, and injured are the hardest hit. Those people miss a day of work, or two. Maybe they’re lucky to have a neighbor who sells them salt at a high price. Or a neighbor boy who shovels the driveway for a higher price. They survive. They come out poorer than if the price has been raised, but there’s rarely long term harm. In the case of a Katrina, or Earthquake, or bridge collapse…people die. The body count starts racking up. By the time help arrives, we have people who otherwize wouldn’t have died.

    Feelings vs outcome. Hurt people vs hurt feelings. Survival vs being nice. The “mean solution” saves lives.

    Until tonight I never understood the phrase “the road to hell is paved with good intentions”. But I get it now.

  • http://bullwinkleblog.com/ Bullwinkle

    You marxists know who is really guilty of price gouging? Those ‘poor’ people making minimum wage who got an increase legislated to enable the government to raise it.

  • robert108

    If the banks get the soft treatment on this and the average Joe gets fucked, something is wrong.

    It’s a false equivalence, as per usual for you.
    One bad act doesn’t justify another. Duh.
    A local business isn’t the same as a national organization.
    Sorry you don’t know that.
    Banks are not suffering from supply shortage; just bad management. Again, sorry you don’t know the difference.
    Maybe you’re just trying to change the subject, or maybe you are ignorant of basic economics. It’s a tossup.

  • robert108

    When the hurricane earthquake tornado tsunami flood levee break power outage gop control of 3 branches of government blizzard foreign army invades and occupies your country comes and you are out of potable water and your
    child needs milk just remember: “If you can’t afford it you don’t deserve it.”

    Translation: How can we buy the votes of those victims of a Dem power structure, by blaming it on the Republicans?

    Keep lying, rbb; it’s all you’ve got.

  • http://sayanythingblog.com/readers/author/realitybasedbob/ realitybasedbob

    Keep arguing morality Bob, cause it’s certainly gonna be hot for you in hell.

    I am sorry you never got to taste the milk of human kindness, Kenny. I pity you.

  • http://bullwinkleblog.com/ Bullwinkle

    Not all disasters can be planned for by individuals…

    They certainly could have planned ahead and moved somewhere else a little less dangerous. They volouteered to stand in the line of fire, they have to accept the possibility they might get shot.

  • http://www.kneejerkcity.com/ Brandon

    You conservatives will say anything to justify your inhumanity to man.

    Spare us the demonizing arguments that are based almost solely on emotion rather than reason.

    I’m not opposed to any government, charity, etc. stepping in and providing the basic essentials for survival after any disaster. I also recognize there’s a portion of the population that doesn’t have the means necessary to plan ahead for a disaster such as a hurricane.

    But for those who have the means, it’s rather A-holish of them to expect the government to step in and guarantee them the kind of items they could easily go to the store and purchase ahead of time when supplies aren’t dangerously low.

    And RBB, I realize victims of earthquakes don’t have the luxury that those along the Gulf Coast currently have. You could even throw victims of tornados in that mix as well.

    But you know if you live in Cali, the chances of a major Earthquake occurring is a very real possibility. So again, plan ahead if you have the means to do so.

    It’s not that hard.

  • http://bullwinkleblog.com/ Bullwinkle

    I thought the resident Marxists here were all about Darwinism, survival of the fittest and all that. Appraently they are all pretty sure they couldn’t survive withoyt handouts. That makes them all extremely unfit. They aren’t even mentally fit enough to realize that a little advance planning can save their worthless lives.

  • robert108

    Rob is a Marxist because of his word choice?

    No, idiot! Marxists confuse profits with prices, but they’re not the only ones who do. Duh. Fallacy of composition.

  • http://bullwinkleblog.com/ Bullwinkle

    I know that the part where I said “I earned it all by myself” wil throw you parasitic Marxists off, but you really should give it a try. Unless you’re disabled you should take care of yourself or starve, that’s your own rules, survival of the fittest. Funny how Darwinism cuts both ways, isn’t it?

  • http://sayanythingblog.com/readers/author/realitybasedbob/ realitybasedbob

    Nutterism 201:

    [color=red][size=6]The unfortunate truth is, gouging saves lives.[/size][/color]

    Image and video hosting by TinyPic

    And just think, her life and the life of her infant daughter were saved because diaper prices were doubled, it’s a nutter miracle!!!!

    Perhaps this Miracle of the Gouge should be practiced without a disaster. Just think of the millions of lives that could be saved then!

    “If you can’t afford it, you don’t deserve it.”

    108

  • http://bullwinkleblog.com/ Bullwinkle

    I realize victims of earthquakes don’t have the luxury that those along the Gulf Coast currently have. You could even throw victims of tornados in that mix as well.

    They can move. I choose to live where I live, surely these ‘victims’ can too, unless they are in prison or slaves. They weigh the risks versus the rewards and decide to take the risk. Sometimes they come out ahead, sometimes they don’t but either way it’s because of their own decisions. Nobody makes anyone live in an earthquake prone area.

  • http://bullwinkleblog.com/ Bullwinkle

    Inhumanity? Because we say that all that’s required is a little prep work to avoid the problems of natural disasters?

    The last time I checked people were free to live just about anywhere they wanted and also free to stock up on necessities in advance. What’s inhuman about thinking they should do so? I personally think it shows a lack of humanity that they don’t.

  • robert108

    The theme of the Marxist loons on this thread seems to be that we should run our economy as if there is always a crisis of some kind. Not so puzzling when you realize that Marxism requires the impression of crisis to get people to buy their lies. Very interesting.

  • robert108
    “If you can’t afford it, you don’t deserve it.”

    108

    Still playing the victim card, eh, Marxist?
    Apparently, you couldn’t afford a good education. The results of that are obvious.

  • robert108

    Not all disasters can be planned for by individuals…

    False! If you live in Southern CA, and are too stupid to know that there are earthquakes…

    The truth is, with greedy govt promising to provide everyone a safety net, many don’t bother to prepare; instead they spend their money on booze, cigs and drugs, then whine when they aren’t prepared for the inevitable earthquake.
    Pure stupidity.
    If you don’t choose to prepare, don’t blame someone else. Grow up!

  • Lestat

    You show your ignorance of economics. It will all sell at the price point determined by the relationship between supply and demand. Duh!

    We’re not talking about everyday life. We are talking about during a crisis should gauging be allowed. The answer is no, but it only relevant when the government has already failed in its duties.

  • http://bullwinkleblog.com/ Bullwinkle

    What do you think should be done with these vicious criminals when they end up pimping their wives and kids on the streets (your soultion, not mine) to make ends meet so they can break even after they restock their shelves?

  • http://sayanythingblog.com/readers/author/realitybasedbob/ realitybasedbob

    C, apparently you are the one experiencing trouble distinguishing between people.

    Nothing says Compassionate Conservative on Duty more than gouging your neighbor in her time of need.

    Don’t blame me for trying to save your life with this $20 AAA battery, blame the free market.

    Love the buck, hate the baby.

  • http://bullwinkleblog.com/ Bullwinkle

    Sure, these people can move. But doesn’t freedom also allow one to live wherever they want?

    Yes freedom allows them to live wherever they want but freedom also comes with resposibilities. One of those would be the responsility to accept the risks, something your nuanced (Marxist) stance asks others to the accept the burden for them. If they want to exercise their freedom they need to accept the risks.

  • robert108

    Having something in stock that people need but cannot afford isn’t useful.

    You show your ignorance of economics. It will all sell at the price point determined by the relationship between supply and demand. Duh!
    Again:
    In our system, all transactions are voluntary, and things are worth what people are willing to pay for them, so there is no such thing as “gouging”. That is only possible in a govt managed economy with govt controlled prices and supply.
    Educate yourself.

  • robert108

    The only way “price gouging” can occur is when the govt fixes prices, and someone charges more, due to their having a favored market position. In the free market, things are worth what people are willing to pay for them, and all transactions are voluntary.

    Profits are income.

  • http://www.kneejerkcity.com/ Brandon

    They can move. I choose to live where I live, surely these ‘victims’ can too, unless they are in prison or slaves. They weigh the risks versus the rewards and decide to take the risk. Sometimes they come out ahead, sometimes they don’t but either way it’s because of their own decisions. Nobody makes anyone live in an earthquake prone area.

    Way to miss my point, Bullwinkle.

    And yet, somehow you missed the point and focused on the fact I used the term ‘victim.’

    Well done.

    Some days, I can’t differentiate between the nuttiness of the lefties on Oliver Willis and the nuttiness of the righties over here (hence, the reason I consider myself right leaning.)

    Sure, these people can move. But doesn’t freedom also allow one to live wherever they want?

  • http://sayanythingblog.com/readers/author/realitybasedbob/ realitybasedbob

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    “If you can’t afford it, you don’t deserve it”

    You are a pathetic excuse of a human being Kenny 108 and God willing, you and you kind will be driven from our government come November.

    And yes, that was a personal attack.

  • robert108

    We are talking about during a crisis should gauging be allowed.

    It’s not “gouging”; in our system, all transactions are voluntary, and things are worth what people are willing to pay for them; gouging is only possible in a command economic system where prices and supply is fixed by the govt. Our system is market-based, so the market determines the prices. When supply is short and demand is high, the price goes up, which is the signal for more supply to be produced. Since the govt can’t be there instantly, the market distributes what goods are available according to the Law of Supply and Demand. Interestingly enough, the money to fund govt help comes from the prosperity of our economic system, which is based on everyday supply and demand.
    Educate yourself.

  • robert108

    The retailers are raising the price of necessary items to unconscionable prices because the people are desperate. No, idiot; the imbalance of supply and demand is causing prices to rise; study some basic econ, and you might learn something. It is taking advantage of people, it is gauging and it is morally reprehensible. No, it’s a consequence of a natural disaster. No economic system can instantly respond to that; in fact, our system responds more quickly than any other, and also generates the prosperity that pays for the nanny state to come along later. You know nothing, and it shows. Gouging is only possible in a command system with govt controlled prices and supply.

    Would you support the people rioting because they need the items during the disaster and cannot afford them. No, that’s lawlessness; they should use their energies to provide for themselves the best they can until things can be brought in, either by the govt or by the market system. High prices bring increased supply. It’s basic econ. That would be called a market correction. No, it’s called criminal behavior, but it’s understandable that a leftie wouldn’t know the difference.

    A “market correction” is where the govt distortions are overcome by free market forces.
    Educate yourself.

  • http://insanereindeer.blogspot.com/ Kenny

    It’s based on two of the Big Lies of Marxism: class envy/jealousy and the “fixed pie” economic thinking, combined with static analysis. Marx believed that the amount of stuff is fixed, and if someone has more, then others have to have less. He believed this caused class envy, which is the source for all human unhappiness. This explains the mania for controlling supply and demand and for “equal outcomes”(except for the ruling elite, of course). In Marx’s fantasy, this would make a happy utopian society. After an undetermined time of “the dictatorship of the proletariat”, of course.

    And in disaster economy, that’s how it actually works. There are finite resources. And once they’re gone, it’s a long time before they are replenished. So, low prices encourage people to horde. Those who get there first, get most. The rest are screwed. So gouging makes it impossible for people to buy more than they absolutely need. So, it actually leads to making sure things are “fairly” distributed. It’s the goals of Marxism…accomplished in capitalism…completely fairly. You’d think they’d be thrilled! Yet they complain even louder.

    Morons.

  • http://bullwinkleblog.com/ Bullwinkle

    Tat’s the Marxist way, the only way people who are unable to think for or take care of themselves (like WOOF) can make it. Parasites can’t be expected to prepare for disasters any more than Marxists can keep food on the shelves.

  • pparets

    Not all disasters can be planned for by individuals…

    LA residents left homeless by the thousands.

    People crushed and emergency relief hampered in LA.

  • robert108

    Blanco lied to Bush and told him the levees were
    intact

    Provide a link, because that is so ridiculous as to be unbelievable.

    It’s true; do your own research, and you might learn something.
    Katrina was a result of the incompetence of a decades-long corrupt Dem power structure in Louisiana and New Orleans. They made it far worse than it would have been, had they been competent and responsible.

  • pparets

    Whistler:

    How much does it cost the government?

    It costs the government nothing, since any expenditure will be made up in tax-revenue – yours and mine.

    If there is any consolation in this, it is that emergency funds spent by the government generally goes to contractors and vendors who provide the goods and services needed to address the crisis; thus the money makes it’s way back into the market-place.

    For example; on the news today, guardsmen were shown despensing complete 1,200 calorie meals-in-a-pouch to evacuees boarding the buses.

    Those meal packets were manufactured by American businesses who purchased and processed the food-stuffs and paid employees to prepare and package them for truckers who hauled them.

    You tax-dollars at work. :)

  • robert108

    How much does it cost the government to supply emergency supplies?

    Nothing; it costs the taxpayers what the supplies cost, plus the added cost of having the greedy govt do it, which probably doubles the cost to the taxpayers, most of whom were smart enough not to live an a hurricane-infested place below sea level(New Orleans). The govt waste in Katrina was unbelievable, and some of the “victims” are still living in trailers on the taxpayer dime.

  • Lestat

    Number one, it’s not the federal government’s job.

    disagree. It is both’s responsibility. We are citizens of the United States, not just a state. Very few states (maybe California, maybe Texas) have the ability to handle a large scale natural disaster. They simply don’t have the equipment or resources. This is compounded by the problem that our military reserve system uses the state’s national guard as national troops so all the state’s equipment may not be available.

    Blanco lied to Bush and told him the levees were intact

    Provide a link, because that is so ridiculous as to be unbelievable.

  • HG

    Well said Bullwinkle.

    According to the liberal darwinians man is the only animal unfit for existence.

  • pparets

    Misallocation or not – and a strong case could be made that emergency provisions from the government to sustain people in a crisis is hardly a misallocation – I was simply pointing out that it was not a TOTAL waste.

  • robert108

    …and a strong case could be made that emergency
    provisions from the government to sustain people in a crisis is hardly a misallocation…

    Not really; it confiscates money that could flow into the disaster area from the private sector, and replaces it at a slower pace(determined by govt, not market forces), and at a higher price than the market would have furnished. With the temporary high prices due to local shortage, private individuals and companies would be drawn to the area ASAP, unless the govt keeps them away, like it did during post-Katrina.
    You’re just wrong here.
    For instance, after Katrina, a Texas company bid to remove all the junk cars from the area for a tenth the price govt cost, and would have removed the cars before the govt go around to filing the paperwork. It’s the same with all other markets. The profit motive gets things done faster and cheaper than the greedy govt can possibly do it, but no politician can buy votes that way; that’s the real reason for govt interference. It’s not politically advantageous to have the private sector take care of the situation; people would see that we don’t need the govt doing so much.
    Remember, they’re in the business of exploiting tragedy and victimhood. Never forget that.

  • pparets

    Whistler: Chill, Dude! Never did I say we were gaining anything from government waste. I only explained that it wasn’t a TOTAL waste.

  • robert108

    Now we’re quoting movies as a source of economic truth?
    Weak.

    What you lying leftie Marxists just don’t get is that those people are free to buy what is necessary to prepare them for emergencies; if they choose not to do that, it’s not our obligation to have our earnings confiscated to feed a large bureaucracy, so that some of it trickles down to the fools who weren’t prepared.
    An inconvenient truth for you.

  • http://insanereindeer.blogspot.com/ Kenny

    Provide a link, because that is so ridiculous as to be unbelievable.

    Sure.

    http://junkyardblog.net/archives/2006/03/blame-bush-blan.php
    http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,186697,00.html

    disagree. It is both’s responsibility. We are citizens of the United States, not just a state. Very few states (maybe California, maybe Texas) have the ability to handle a large scale natural disaster. They simply don’t have the equipment or resources. This is compounded by the problem that our military reserve system uses the state’s national guard as national troops so all the state’s equipment may not be available.

    Your disagreement is irrelevant. The federal government is not allowed to intervene until the state asks for it. That’s the way the system works. You may as well disagree with the infield fly rule, or the shot time clock, or that there are 9 justices on the Supreme Court, but that’s still the way it is.
    Even when the federal troops come in, it’s as a suppliment, and they are to follow the state’s lead.

  • http://www.valleydeals.com/cgi-bin/board2/YaBB.pl Kevin

    Always let the free market work its magic.

  • http://bullwinkleblog.com/ Bullwinkle

    When the hurricane comes you are out of potable water and your child needs milk just remember due to low prices there isn’t any available at any price. WOOF, RBB and Twinkle Toes Arbuckle will be pleased though because they are Marxists and nobody made a profit…

  • robert108

    Nutterism 101: E Pluribus Screwem

    Wrong. That’s Marxism. It’s also E Pluribus Kill’em.(over 100 million killed by Marxism)

  • http://sayanythingblog.com/readers/author/realitybasedbob/ realitybasedbob

    Nutterism 101: E Pluribus Screwem

  • robert108

    pp: It’s not “profiteering”; that’s a Marxist concept, btw.
    You’re getting lost in manipulative leftie emotionality.

  • http://sayanythingblog.com/readers/author/realitybasedbob/ realitybasedbob

    Image and video hosting by TinyPic

    the fools who weren’t prepared.

  • http://bullwinkleblog.com/ Bullwinkle

    Nothing says Compassionate Conservative on Duty more than gouging your neighbor in her time of need.

    Nothing says compassionat Marxist on duty like more than empty shelves with everyday low prices. Nothing says stupidity quite like living in an area that is subject to disasters like being unprepared.

  • carrick

    translation:

    “My name is realitybasedbob and I’m so fucking stupid somebody has to tie my shoes for me”.

    Get an education, noob. Then you wouldn’t look so fucking stupid when somebody talks about basic economics.

  • robert108

    pp: What’s the replacement cost of something that is unavailable?

  • robert108

    Kenny: You’re making way too much sense for these victim-hustler Marxists. How can they use the bad fortune of those who live in unsafe areas to buy votes if people know the truth?

  • robert108

    And once they’re gone, it’s a long time before they are
    replenished.

    Not necessarily a long time; market forces, in the form of higher than normal prices, bring in supply rather quickly, unless the govt gets in the way. It’s still not a call for “fixed pie” thinking.

  • robert108

    …don’t blame me, blame the free market…

    Blame those who failed to prepare, even though they knew they lived in a hurricane area. Blaming someone else, who isn’t responsible, is the lying leftie way.

  • Hannitized

    Why did I spin, lying sack of shit?

    You spun the words “lying sack of shit” because I did not lie. I told the truth.

    You spun your answer after I directly answered your initial question and proved you wrong.

    I am not going to hi-jack this thread. Click on the link I provided you idiot.

  • http://sayanythingblog.com/readers/author/realitybasedbob/ realitybasedbob

    So actually quoting from one of 108′s previous signatures is playing the victim card?

  • carrick

    RBB, you act as if hurricanes creep in during the night.

    If you haven’t planned for the future, especially in the scenario you’ve given where others depend on you, then you really are a fucking asshole.

    What’s the matter with people like you that assume that everybody else is supposed to wipe your ass for you?

  • robert108

    I only explained that it wasn’t a TOTAL waste.

    It’s still misallocation of capital.

  • http://sayanythingblog.com/readers/author/realitybasedbob/ realitybasedbob

    Image and video hosting by TinyPic

    the fools who weren’t prepared.

  • robert108

    I am not going to hi-jack this thread.

    You already have; as you do all other threads in which you post your narcissistic bullshit.

  • Hannitized
  • robert108

    …thus the money makes it’s way back into the market-place.

    Sort of. First, the govt takes its cut, which raises the price to the taxpayers, and second, the prices are not in a free market; they are usually limited to a few firms that generally deal with the govt. The govt doesn’t do anything locally, so their overhead is a lot higher than if market forces were allowed to do their job. Don’t forget: real market forces generated the prosperity that funds the greedy govt in the first place.

  • robert108

    I don’t understand why leftists are so concerned about equal distribution….

    It’s based on two of the Big Lies of Marxism: class envy/jealousy and the “fixed pie” economic thinking, combined with static analysis. Marx believed that the amount of stuff is fixed, and if someone has more, then others have to have less. He believed this caused class envy, which is the source for all human unhappiness. This explains the mania for controlling supply and demand and for “equal outcomes”(except for the ruling elite, of course). In Marx’s fantasy, this would make a happy utopian society. After an undetermined time of “the dictatorship of the proletariat”, of course.

  • http://insanereindeer.blogspot.com/ Kenny

    We’re not talking about everyday life. We are talking about during a crisis should gauging be allowed. The answer is no, but it only relevant when the government has already failed in its duties.

    Number one, it’s not the federal government’s job. Federalism means it’s the city, and then the state’s job. IF they ask for help, the feds can get involved.

    Two, it’s gouging, not gauging.

    Three, so, in admitting that the government has already failed…you just say the government should work better. Well, hell, OK. If the government can get food into ervery neighborhood to every house, then the whole issue of gouging itself becomes moot. Who cares what the store charges? The government will be here with free food in the morning!

    Oh wait, that doesn’t happen. CRAP.

    Let’s look at Katrina. The buses meant to ferry the poor out of New Orleans were left stranded. Ray Nagin used the National Guard to escort him to his house so he could get his belongings…while people were dying. Blanco lied to Bush and told him the levees were intact, and that all those stupid news stations were wrong. During this time citizens all over N.O. were struggling for help. By the time FEMA rolled in, the body count was already rising. Far from coming in 24 hours after the disaster to save everyone, government failed people even BEFORE the disaster struck.

    I know it’s heartbreaking to liberals everytime the massive government that they pretend is a loving parent fails them. But until you realize that government is government…not family, the disappointment will continue.

  • Lestat

    This is a ridiculous argument.

    The fact is that gauging should make no difference because there should not be a place in the US that the government cannot get all the food, water and medicine needed within 24 hours.

    The idea that you are helping people by raising the price of water to where only the wealthy can afford it is asinine. Having something in stock that people need but cannot afford isn’t useful. What it does is cause rioting, because people will take what they need in a crisis.

    You idiots act as if the market is a good unto itself. It isn’t. It is a means to an end. It is just a tool.

  • http://insanereindeer.blogspot.com/ Kenny

    Dumbass, the whole point of this thread is that supply can’t be increased because you are in the middle of a natural disaster. The retailers are raising the price of necessary items to unconscionable prices because the people are desperate. It is taking advantage of people, it is gauging and it is morally reprehensible.

    No, it’s not morally unconscionable. The natural tendancy of people is to horde. Gouging prevents hording and spreads resources more evenly. Instead of everybody buying 10 bags of rock salt for a snowstorm, when the price is raised, they only buy a bag or two. Far from being evil, this means that when Grandma finally makes it to the store, there will be some left! Same principle.

    I don’t understand why leftists are so concerned about equal distribution….

  • Lestat

    Dumbass, the whole point of this thread is that supply can’t be increased because you are in the middle of a natural disaster. The retailers are raising the price of necessary items to unconscionable prices because the people are desperate. It is taking advantage of people, it is gauging and it is morally reprehensible.

    Would you support the people rioting because they need the items during the disaster and cannot afford them. That would be called a market correction.

  • robert108

    So actually quoting from one of 108′s previous signatures is playing the victim card?

    In this case, yes; and you know it, liar.
    You’re playing the victim card, just like you hate-filled lefties always do. Without it, you would have no basis for your identity politics. You claim that victims of natural disasters are victims of our free enterprise economic system, rather than their own choices to spend their money of doodads instead of providing for their families in case of disasters, while living in a disaster-prone area.
    Too bad I had to tell you this.
    Educate yourself!

  • robert108

    And yes, that was a personal attack.

    Of course it was, since that’s all you ever do.

    We already know what you are, rbb.

    Keep selling the victimhood, rbb; it’s all you’ve got to offer the American people. You certainly can’t offer them Life, Liberty and the pursuit of Happiness! Not to mention individual independence and economic freedom.

  • Buzz

    No, idiot! Marxists confuse profits with prices, but they’re not the only ones who do. Duh. Fallacy of composition.

    Can anyone read what robert 108 says and not just shake there heads with amazement. Each post reminds me of what a fucking retard this dick beating piece of work is.

    22,000 posts, I hope for your sake you’re like disabled or something. What a fucking loser.

  • http://insanereindeer.blogspot.com/ Kenny

    Sure, these people can move. But doesn’t freedom also allow one to live wherever they want?

    Yea, but that also means that you’re responsible for living in an area that is prone to flooding. And when something bad happens to you, you shoulder the responsibility of it.

    Nothing says Compassionate Conservative on Duty more than gouging your neighbor in her time of need.
    Don’t blame me for trying to save your life with this $20 AAA battery, blame the free market.

    If only we GAVE AWAY the items in a time of need! That would speed up the emptying of shelves, and increase the number of items each person would take…but it feels so damned good! Who the hell cares the people will starve? I feel good about myself! And I have this picture to tug at your heartstrings, you evil pricks!

    Trouble RBB not with facts. He he has place for them.

  • robert108

    When it gets down to the nitty gritty do
    you first pimp your women or children ?

    Pure leftiethink. They go for immorality, rather than hard work and good judgment. Very revealing.

  • robert108

    rbb: Actually, your little picture proves my point: she spent money on that clock, instead of disaster supplies. A good example of discretionary spending that left her unprepared for reality. Of course, we don’t know this woman’s situation, or what caused her house to look like that; maybe she did it in a drunken, drug-fueled rage. Maybe she lives in a hurricane or tornado area, and made that choice a long time ago. Maybe she has a good supply of food and water, and is just more concerned about that clock than anything else. As with everything you post, it’s designed to elicit an unthinking emotional response, and is essentially deceptive.
    Our economy isn’t pitched at the level of the occasional disaster; it’s there to enable the greatest good for the greatest number.
    Her situation(whatever it actually is) stems from her choices in life, not our economic system.

  • http://insanereindeer.blogspot.com/ Kenny

    If they double or triple the cost of bread after a natural disaster they are fucking asshole disaster profiteers and I spit on them.

    Shrug. Spit all you want.
    You still can’t come up with a factual counterargument.

    We are talking about gouging Kenny, gouging.
    If gouging saves lives as you claim, why not make a practice of it everyday? Or is that in the gop platform already?

    Yaaaaaawn. So, you still can’t argue the fact. Instead, you go to reducto ad absurdum.

    You are a pathetic excuse of a human being Kenny and God willing, you and you kind will be driven from our government come November.

    You’re advocating methods that we have shown lead to people not having basic supplies such as food, water, and generators. People DIE because of your idiotic methods. You have no moral standing to question whether or not I’m a good human being.

    You’re simply not smart enough to argue. And we both know that you don’t give a damn about how your policies actually work, just how you feel about them.

    You know, it’s rather ironic that someone who consistantly advocates “fair” distribution of things is arguing against the only method that accomplishes that. Keep arguing morality Bob, cause it’s certainly gonna be hot for you in hell.

  • http://insanereindeer.blogspot.com/ Kenny

    And just think, her life and the life of her infant daughter were saved because diaper prices were doubled, it’s a nutter miracle!!!!
    Perhaps this Miracle of the Gouge should be practiced without a disaster. Just think of the millions of lives that could be saved then!

    Translation: I just got smacked with a cluebat and don’t like it.

    Because we all know price gouging caused all that damage in her home.

    I explained how gouging makes sure supplies are rationed. Bob points to a victim and cries. No factual rebuttal. Not even an ATTEMPT to make a point. Just an insult, a sad picture, and another insult. You really are a moron.

  • http://bullwinkleblog.com/ Bullwinkle

    When it gets down to the nitty gritty do
    you first pimp your women or children ?

    Neither, I have sufficient resources that I earned all by MYSELF to weather just about anything. It is good to hear that even you are planning ahead, though. Ask one of your buddies how they cope with a little adversity, I’m sure they’ll have some pointers.

  • robert108

    Always let the free market work its magic.

    Except for cigs, booze, marijuana, abortions…

    Always good to see a leftie admit that he looks upon stupid and dangerous activities, along with the taking of innocent human life, as commodities.
    Most of us know better.

  • http://sayanythingblog.com/readers/author/realitybasedbob/ realitybasedbob

    If a grocery store has 500 loaves of bread…they have 500 loaves of bread.

    If they double or triple the cost of bread after a natural disaster they are fucking asshole disaster profiteers and I spit on them.

    Where in you pea size brain did you find in my words: “If only we GAVE AWAY the items in a time of need! That would speed up the emptying of shelves, and increase the number of items each person would take…”

    We are talking about gouging Kenny, gouging.
    If gouging saves lives as you claim, why not make a practice of it everyday? Or is that in the gop platform already?

    You are a pathetic excuse of a human being Kenny and God willing, you and you kind will be driven from our government come November.

  • robert108

    If they double or triple the cost of bread after a natural disaster they are fucking asshole disaster profiteers and I spit on them.

    Typical hate-filled Marxist rhetoric. You must create victimhood to sell your class hatred crap. Shame on you!
    If you knew anything about real economics, you wouldn’t say such stupid things.

    We are talking about gouging Kenny, gouging.

    Wrong. For “gouging” to occur, there has to be a preset price, and govt price controls. We have a much better system than that, which is why it always beats socialism/communism.
    Educate yourself. History refutes your bullshit.

  • robert108

    Here are the two facts that give the lie to all your Marxist rhetoric, rbb:

    In our economic system:

    All transactions are voluntary.
    Things are worth what people are willing to pay for them.

    The free market is economic Darwinism; I thought all you lefties loved Darwinism. Maybe it’s like all the rest of your hypocrisy; you have no basic principles besides those in Marxist ideology.

  • WOOFX

    Yup , lynching them would be too severe.

  • http://sayanythingblog.com/readers/author/sparkiearbuckle sayanything-81

    If the banks can prevent temporary losses (a low week for example) by basing their assets on models temporarily… why the fuck can’t stores keep their prices consistent during a crisis? If the banks get the soft treatment on this and the average Joe gets fucked, something is wrong. Welfare handouts for the banks, consistency of value for the banks… but fuck the poor people.

  • http://sayanythingblog.com/readers/author/sparkiearbuckle sayanything-81

    Always let the free market work its magic.

    Except for cigs, booze, marijuana, abortions…

    more tariffs for China, for Canada.

  • http://sayanythingblog.com/readers/author/sparkiearbuckle sayanything-81

    So Rob

    First, high prices force conservation. Instead of a handful of rich customers buying up more than they need, so that people who come later or who can’t afford to buy in such volume are left with little or nothing to choose from, higher prices force conservation so that there’s more for everybody.

    But the poor people can’t afford the shit when people gouge so it doesn’t matter.

    The cunts gouged on generators during the ice storm of ’98. In freezing conditions that means people are going to loose all the piping and other important infrastructure in their homes. That is horribly expensive to repair. Frankly, its the difference between having your house and all your belongings destroyed or not. I’ve seen what happens to house when multiple burst pipes thaw out. Most people don’t have those gravity drains in the basement that empties out the pipes, for letting the house temp fall below 40 degrees. Some people don’t wood heat too. And most oil heat systems require electricity.

  • WOOFX

    Again

    Nutterism 101.

  • http://sayanythingblog.com/readers/author/sparkiearbuckle sayanything-81

    Someone is confusing “prices” with “profits”; they are not the same thing, although Marxists think so.

    Rob is a Marxist because of his word choice? You should write him a letter to let him know. I’m not sure he’s aware of that unfortunate diagnosis.

  • http://sayanythingblog.com/readers/author/sparkiearbuckle sayanything-81

    ROb

    Because raising profits to balance supply and demand is criminal.

    If the banks can prevent temporary losses (a low week for example) by basing their assets on models temporarily… why the fuck can’t stores keep their prices consistent during a crisis? If the banks get the soft treatment on this and the average Joe gets fucked, something is wrong. Welfare handouts for the banks, consistency of value for the banks… but fuck the poor people. All its going to do is make FEMA and other Washington-based agencies end up funding absurd bills to save face after the situation gets extremely unhumane. The states should have the ability to penalize retailers for gouging.

    The retailers should be prepared. Its their fault. A chance to do tons of business, and they miss it.

  • WOOFX

    They used some of this diluted
    penicillin against meningitis. The
    lucky children died…

    The Third Man

    Image and video hosting by TinyPic

  • WOOFX

    When it gets down to the nitty gritty do
    you first pimp your women or children ?

  • WOOFX

    Catch 22

    Milo is masterful but corrupt, parlaying his position as mess officer (in charge of the dining hall) into personal direction of M & M Enterprises, controlling all sorts of goods and services, from fresh eggs to prostitutes.

    He deals with everyone except the Russians, eschewing their trade because they are Communists. Nonetheless, he has no problem doing business with America’s primary European enemy, Nazi Germany. Milo even profits from specific battles. When the Allies plan to bomb a highway bridge at Orvieto, Milo arranges to conduct the attack for them. But he also agrees with the Germans to defend the same bridge with antiaircraft fire, bargaining for cost plus six percent from each side, plus a “merit bonus” of $1,000 from the Germans for each plane shot down.

  • WOOFX

    remember due to low prices there isn’t any available at any price.

    Even the dullard Bush administration has learned gov’ts responsibilities in disasters.

    Hang on to your inhumanity and ridiculous economic view.
    Your gun and your water will be taken from your cold dead hands.

  • WOOFX

    It also lets the retailer stay in business.

    In my state they go to jail.

  • http://sayanythingblog.com robport

    First, price gouging during natural disasters is a finger in the eye to everyday people. Instead of sharing the basic necessities with everyone in need (fellow Americans — your neighbors who support your business during the year), rich customers can come in and buy up everything so that people just barely getting by find either nothing on the shelves or by necessity, pay the gougers greed.

    I think it’s rather stupid to expect retailers to keep selling their product at every day prices while the natural disaster hits them just has hard in terms of getting new product in.

    Increasing prices gives the retailer more capital to bring in more product. It also rations product so that people don’t buy more than they need. It also lets the retailer stay in business.

    Is it so greedy to not want to go out of business during a natural disaster? Is it so greedy to want to keep products on the shelves for your customers? Retailers aren’t charities, and nobody reimburses them after the fact.

    Better to have some product available at higher prices than to have no product available at all.

  • http://sayanythingblog.com robport

    They go to jail for trying to stay in business during a crisis?

    Do you really think that’s a sound policy, Poodle?

    Laws that keep prices artificially low during times of crisis only encourage shortages.

    Do you think that’s sound policy, Poodle?

  • WOOFX

    Adam Smith:

    it comes from an order of man whose interest is never exactly the same with that of the public, who have generally an interest to deceive and even to oppress the public

    Which is why we have laws to suppress odious market behaviors.

  • http://sayanythingblog.com robport

    Right, Poodle. Because raising profits to balance supply and demand is criminal.

    Hey, why don’t we just have the government take over the stores and let the bureaucrats set the prices. That would be the most fair, right?

  • WOOFX

    People operate out of self interest.

    That’s why there are laws against disaster price gouging.

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