Say Anything Blog

2 words define the problem:
Affirmative Action
.
It caused a general dumbing down of America.
General requirement levels were dropped across the board to allow everyone to qualify.
Even at the grocery store!
Remember back when the cashier would actually count your change back to you?
She did it without the register telling her how much to give back.
Very rarely do I see this happen now.
Anyway, the education system was hit hard in the late 70’s to get more kids through school instead of getting more kids educated.
THose kids are now “teachers”, cashiers,city council members, store managers & the like.

Either way, management has got to be able to effectively remove those who aren’t working well and replace them with those who will.  If management can’t do that they can’t get rid of bad employees, and good employees have little incentive to keep performing.

Granted that the unions aren’t helping the situation, the first line of opposition is the government agencies like EEOC that make it impossible to get rid of a non-preforming employee without documented cause showing perversive activity on the part of the employee something that is very difficult to get.  I know this from my many days of management in the private sector.  This has gotten so bad that private industry almost exclusively uses down-sizing and other revenue related measures to weed out non-productive employees, something that is not available to the education system.

You don’t have to be a moron to be a liberal Democrat but it sure helps.

Wouldn’t hurt either if most of the teachers weren’t culled from the bottoms of the class.

""That’s the problem with you lefties, you’re not willing to get your hands dirty. I’d suggest you roll up your sleeves.”

-Jack Bauer

fyi
it is not that difficult to get rid of poor teachers. Proper steps must be followed at the administrative levels.  The teachers union (or rather teachers association, as ND is a ‘right to work state’ has no desire to support poor educators.  The association is there to make sure administration follows procedure. 

It is far more difficult to remove poor administration than it is to remove poor teachers.

In my 25 years of teaching experience I have seen educators removed in minutes, I have seen them removed in years, and I have seen them remain in the classroom for an entire career.  The difference in the scenarios is proactive administration. Not protective union/association.

"Why Are Public Schools Bad At Hiring Good Teachers?”

Because Union contracts forbid them to hire on merit, instead requiring that the least competent be hired on an equal basis with the most competent?

Or perhaps it has to do with Union contracts which forbid schools from firing incompetent teachers?

6 of one, half dozen,,,,,,,,

Una Salus Victus Nullam Sperare Salutem

The operative word which everyone has missed here is tenure. Once a teacher has it - and in most states it comes automatically after three years - it is extremely difficult to remove an incompetent teacher.

There are three vital stages for every teacher where this could have or can be avoided.

1.  At every college and university, an education major must show mastery of their subject area and serve an internship during which they are observed and evaluated on the job.  Few, very few are weeded out at this critical first step.

2.  Almost every state has enacted a “Teacher Tenure” law protecting teachers from “arbitrary dismissal” after serving a trial period in the classroom, ranging from two to three years. The best opportunity to nail an incompetent teacher is during this non-tenured time. Few are dismissed.

3.  One by one, locally-elected school boards across the nation caved in to the NEA and the AFT on the issues of firing and merit more than 35 years ago. Any school board with enough backbone can undo these errors anytime they want to.  Few have done so.

For the best understanding of this frustrating situation, read the ‘education’ chapter in THE PETER PRINCIPLE.

"Here lies, in honored glory, an American soldier, known but to God.”

“Glory is not a conceit. It is not a decoration for valor. Glory belongs to the act of being constant to something greater than yourself, to a cause, to your principles, to the people on whom you rely, and who rely on you in return.”
Senator John McCain, Faith of Our fathers

unreal, another “say anything topic”....where not one listens.

once agan “Say anything” posts what they want, but no one pays attention....

So Union protectionism has nothing to do with it. Right.

Una Salus Victus Nullam Sperare Salutem

2hotel9: Yes and no. The NEA is not a ‘union’ in the sense that the UAW or Teamster’s are. The NEA is more like the Bar for lawyers.

Teachers do not shut down a school over a disciplined or fired teacher. Instead they win this battle at the negotiating table by strong-arming local school boards into agreement on topics like No Merit Pay, no merit advancement, ‘alternatives’ to firing and closed shops where teachers must pay NEA dues whether they join or not.

Local elected school boards are the lawful governing agencies for school operations.  Most turn their authority over to a superintendent - almost always a former classroom teacher - and the rest is history.

Like I said, any school board with some backbone could undo many of these practices any time they want to. Most won’t.

"Here lies, in honored glory, an American soldier, known but to God.”

“Glory is not a conceit. It is not a decoration for valor. Glory belongs to the act of being constant to something greater than yourself, to a cause, to your principles, to the people on whom you rely, and who rely on you in return.”
Senator John McCain, Faith of Our fathers

Imagine:  I paid careful attention to what you wrote but chose not to respond because much of what you said is simply not true on a national scale.

Example: 

I have seen educators removed in minutes.

Well, yes, and so have I; but not for incompetence. Momentary removal is almost always connected to felonious behavior: violence against a student or co-worker, sexual misconduct or other criminal matter.

The rest of your post is applicable only in firm right-to-work states- there are not many of those - and then only under local contract agreement.

"Here lies, in honored glory, an American soldier, known but to God.”

“Glory is not a conceit. It is not a decoration for valor. Glory belongs to the act of being constant to something greater than yourself, to a cause, to your principles, to the people on whom you rely, and who rely on you in return.”
Senator John McCain, Faith of Our fathers

There are always, always, always ways to remove teachers. There is a process to follow, it requires administration to be “on the ball” and “on their game” which, sad to say, does not happen as often as it should. So we blame the teachers.  A bad teacher taints all teachers. Why would we want to protect them?

Merit pay is a great idea.  The implementation of merit pay is the difficulty.

Most administrators are not former classroom teachers.  Most administrators are ex-coaches with 3 or more loosing seasons

Imagine:  Somehow you manage to keep talking right around the comments of others on this thread.

NO ONE is blaming teachers here.

You keep saying that on-the-ball administrators can get rid of bad teachers, but you ignore the fact that the process is slow, frustrating, burdensome and contentious; not to mention that few building administrators have much time to pursue the process.

Some administrators may well be former coaches with three or more losing seasons, but most have been classroom teachers as well.

Districts are not governed by teachers, administrators or the NEA.  They are governed by their locally elected school boards in whose hands rests the final authority for agreeing to contracts which protects or eliminates bad teachers. You know that already, if you are an educator.

"Here lies, in honored glory, an American soldier, known but to God.”

“Glory is not a conceit. It is not a decoration for valor. Glory belongs to the act of being constant to something greater than yourself, to a cause, to your principles, to the people on whom you rely, and who rely on you in return.”
Senator John McCain, Faith of Our fathers

how fast should the process be? Who should decide when a teacher needs to “clean out their desk”?

One of the significant problems is in teacher evaluations.  Find a terrible teacher and there is a very good chance that there are years and years of favorable evaluations in the file.  Rarely is a teacher put on an “action plan” (different states use different words..basically a “these things need to be improved” list)

So then the teachers association steps in and says “show me your data on the teacher in question”....
and all the paperwork says the teacher is doing an acceptable job (or in some cases the paperwork says the teacher is ‘outstanding’ Then when the union/association protects the teacher we get angry at the association?  doesn’t make sense!

.  I do a self-evaluation once a year.  Every other year a principal sits in my room for 20-40 minutes and this is how they decide if I am doing a good job.

A “Board of Peers” review would be much more significant and would have more impact.  Poor teachers would be weeded out much more effectively.

I am a teacher.  I am not a ‘fan’ of NEA.  I am a member.  I do not believe for one second that the national or the local want to protect poor teachers.

Administrators, on the whole, are Union mandarins, protecting Union members. They do not give a shit about students. Whiny assed children come and go, Union pay scale is eternal.

Una Salus Victus Nullam Sperare Salutem