Say Anything Blog

If all Iran wants is peaceful nuclear power, then why aren’t they allowing full inspections?
Hmm?

Answer: what they really want is to drop the bomb on Tel Aviv.

With all their oil, they don’t need nuclear power at all right now.  What’s their hurry?

There is another genius angle to this latest US more on Iran, for now, all of a sudden, the US is no longer the odd man out with regards to our European “allies.” Instead we are all on the same proverbial page and talk of America’s obstinate unilateralism all but vanishes.

Mr. Bush has confounded his European critics where Iran is concerned by agreeing with their position and in effect co-opting them.  They now have nowhere to go, but to follow the leader.

All in all, a very well-timed, very adroit manuever.

If all Iran wants is peaceful nuclear power, then why aren’t they allowing full inspections?
Hmm?

Ken McCracken on June 1, 2006 at 12:35 AM

If all Israel wants is peaceful nuclear power, why are they in violation of U.N. resolution demanding inspection of their nuclear facilities?
Hmmm......

Maybe that’s why Ahmadinejad is pushing so hard for the same rights?  Oh, I forgot:  Israelis are ‘special’.

What they really want is????

Genius move?

Hahahahahahaha.  Dufus had to back down.

Ahmadinejad is a great poker player.

Hahahahahahaha. Dufus had to back down.

This is the same commenter who gets upset when people call her names.

What is the word for that?....

Oh yeah! Hypocrite!

Hey lick,

I’ve been called the c-word and so many other names it’s hard to keep them straight.

Dufus is namecalling lite.

Well, isn’t this a nice blog. We seem to have one commenter here who is cheerleading the Nazis.

Genius move?

Hahahahahahaha. Dufus had to back down.

Ahmadinejad is a great poker player.

Okay, diane. Nice to see where you stand.

Anyway, aside from diane trying to organize a torchlight parade past the Persian Fuhrer’s window, very good move by Condi. Puts the onus back on Ahmadhi-dinner jacket’s diplomats to come up with something to keep the Ivans and the Chicoms from completely abandoning the EU-3 to their own devices of appeasement. The added benefit is that it provides us with diplomatic maneuverability without the burden of actually having to do anything.

The Persians won’t go for the enrichment suspension. They want nuclear weapons so they can have their Twelfth Imam back and bring on the Apocalypse, or nuke the Joooos, or be Big Man On Campus, or whatever. But this gets us out from behind the Eight Ball where Useful Idiots like diane had us.

diane spews, I’ve been called the c-word and so many other names it’s hard to keep them straight.

You want a cookie? Who the hell cares diane? Spare me your ‘woe is me’ victim mentality, for I am not falling for it. In any regard, you’re a hypocrite and you can’t and don’t even try to deny it. You just excuse it.

section9 - fixed the blocklink code in your comment. I don’t know why it was displayed the way it was before I corrected it because you did have the simple code right. And section9 - most of the regulars here don’t like diane. Don’t let her disgusting tirades set the tone for you.

Dude, thanks. I could have sworn I blockquoted diane’s tirade properly. And no, I don’t take diane’s comments as reflecting on the editorial stand of the blog or most of the posters.

I simply cannot abide liberals who sympathize with an anti-Semitic, Jew-hating Nazi regime simply because they hate Bush so much.

Are they that freaking blind?

Ken McCraken writes “If all Iran wants is peaceful nuclear power, then why aren’t they allowing full inspections?

They are.

Answer: what they really want is to drop the bomb on Tel Aviv.

Iran has made it clear that they have no interest whatsoever of obtaining nuclear weapons. But just supposing for one silly minute that they did. Does anyone seriously believe they would use it against Israel, killing just as many Arabs as Jews and expecting 100 nuclear weapons to be launched in retaliation.

Time perhaps for you to grow up and face reality.

The pre-condition that Iran stops Uranium enrichment before the talks even start rather makes the talks a waste of time. Iran of course has a legal right to develop nuclear energy for peaceful purposes and they have made it clear, time after time, that they are not interested in nuclear weapons or indeed, have the capability of producing nuclear weapons. Bush and his gangsters hope that by making this pointless offer to Iran they can somehow win the support of Russia and China to get another UN Resolution which although will not authorise military action, will be used in that manner by the USA.

Rather than being a genius move” it’s actually quite a pathetic move, the pre-condition that Iran stops enrichment prior to talks proves conclusively that the USA is not interested in negotiations. There’s not a snow balls chance in hell that either the Russians or Chinese will go along with it.”
Iran dismisses U.S. talks as ‘propaganda move’
Tehran rejects new Bush overture seeking end to uranium enrichment

Time for you to perhaps start getting your information from somewhere other than Kos.

Iran removed IAEA seals at Natanz in January.
Iran has stopped snap inspections, and stopped all voluntary compliance with the IAEA inspection rules.

Only a liberal mush head like you Michael believes they are allowing ‘full inspections.’

Why are you shilling for fascist mullahs anyway, Michael? Why are you defending psychotic theocrats?

Would you enjoy living under a regime that grants few if any rights to women, homosexuals and dissidents?

Is that what your tolerant liberalism tells you to support?

Some people hate Bush and Condi soooo much that they are willing to become willing apologists for a Nazi regime that has expressed an interest in the physical liquidation of the Jews of Israel.

There are several reasons why the Left cannot be trusted with national security. Today’s thread on Iran illustrates some of them.

Yeah, they are so disordered in their thinking, that they think Bush is the enemy, and Ahmadinejad is their friend.

You are right, they are never to be trusted with our national security.

McCrackers writes “Only a liberal mush head like you Michael believes they are allowing ‘full inspections.”

They were certainly allowing full inspections until the crackhead Yanqui fascists started the same crap as they did against Iraq.

Iran had more than 2,000 inspections of their plants, and the inspectors obtained more than 1,000 pages of documentation. IAEA had cameras installed in our their nuclear centres. IAEA has emphasised in all their reports that there are no indications of any irregularities in Iran. That is the reality of the matter. Only a complete loon could envisage Iran attacking Israel with nuclear weapons.

McCrackers writes “Yeah, they are so disordered in their thinking, that they think Bush is the enemy, and Ahmadinejad is their friend.”

The difference is of course is that Bush is a proved liar and it’s not Iran or Ahmadinejad that is threatening an invasion of the USA or have been involved with invasions of other countries.
But in any case this time you are shit out of luck, there’s no way Russia and China , or actually the EU including the British poodle, will support another illegal adventure for oil. Iran certainly isn’t another Granada and this time there’s no guarantee that Iran doesn’t really have WMD, as with Iraq . They are certainly being supplied with modern weapons from Russia.

Okay folks, any questions as to the fascist sympathies of today’s Left have since been answered to my satisfaction. Michael, please take your place beside diane in the torchlight parade past the Persian Fuhrer’s window.

And don’t forget, there’s only one “e” in “Joooos!”

McCrackers writes “Would you enjoy living under a regime that grants few if any rights to women, homosexuals and dissidents?”

I suppose those are matters that dumb yanquis really care about? If so it doesn’t explain why that’s exactly the regime you have installed with the puppet Iraqi government.

We should publish Michael for all those Republicans who are contemplating allowing the lefties to take over Congress.  Can you spell Republican landslide?

Section9 I always find it amusing when extreme right yanqui fascists try to paint the opposition as being Nazis.

What I associate with the Fuhrer is invading countries under false pretences for the purposes of controlling natural resources, carrying out collective punishments such as destroying whole villages/town as punishment for resistance, torture, concentration camps such as the one in Cuba and massacring civilians.
Now as it happens none of those things remind me of Iran, nope it’s Bush and the NewWorldNazis comes straight to mind.,

The probabilities are high that this is just a Bolton-Rice end run around the Russians and Chinese, without any real expectation that Iran will start talking.

For starters, it seems designed to give offence to Iran’s leaders: My way or the highway, Bush is saying.  It smacks of bullying rather than negotiating.

Why make it a condition TO THE START OF TALKS that they suspend enrichment?  Bush could easily have said: Let’s start talking, and talk for an agreed period (3 months?).  If we reach agreement on main principles, you will then suspend enrichment in a verifiable way while we complete our negotiations ...

I wonder if the verifiable condition has any link to the fact that elections take place in November?
Just a thought ...

Quite right CKTC is Bush was serious about negotiations there would be no pre-conditions. Iran has stated many times that they are not interested in having nuclear weapons, there’s no indication at all that they have started the process, they don’t even have the capability. Bush is renowned for his stupidity, far from being a “genius move” this is just another example.

Good God, docdave, I didn’t know Michael was a Sandalista. A regular reader of the Grauniad, come to Cuba to volunteer to harvest sugar cane for Fidel, perhaps? Mebbe that’s the reason for the plentiful use of the word “Yanqui”, perhaps? A throwback to a bygone era of romantic days gathering in the sugar cane, then sitting round the table with Fidel, Che, and of course, Papa in Old post-revolutionary Havana.

When there was still hope. Before the cars started getting old. Before the Left turned into a cheerleading section for the Islamic Fascist movement.

Freaking Nazi sympathizers. Wonder when Michael and diane will break into a chorus of the Horst Wessel Lied.

And section9 - most of the regulars here don’t like diane. Don’t let her disgusting tirades set the tone for you.

The feeling is mutual, I’m sure.  And section9 has their own disgusting style without picking up on mine, which is far more creative and honest.

You duplicitous faux patriotic Bush Wipes just keep throwing out the Joooooooooos thing when you’re losing.  Such a bunch of really pathetic wimps.

‘anti-semitic’....boy, when they bring that one out one is supposed to go limping and licking their wounds and lie quietly in the corner.

Well, it’s a crock of bull so shaddapaboutit.

You Arab hating ignoramuses.

Michael, welcome back.

I don’t know about genius but it kinda went south when our unconfirmed ambassador from Plato’s Retreat fame proclaimed:

“We went the extra mile. We gave Iran really, this last chance to show that they are serious when they say they don’t want nuclear weapons. This is put or shut up time for Iran.”

I guess he didn’t see bushy’s mia culpa on using mad cowboy disease language on the public stage.

Oh Mr. Bolton, you are a wild one.

I see we have another flaming Zionist on board...section9.

Welcome, anti-Arab anti-semitic anti-Muslim numbskull.

You’ve found a home amongst your own kind. A few of us with functioning brains are all that’s required to keep you in line.

Have you met the Idiot Savant Tourette’s Boy yet?

rbb, Bolton, Bush, Rice, Rumsfeld; haven’t you noticed they all have the same obnoxious, offensive, bully, king of the hill style??

Same with the folks here.  Like ‘leader’, like followers.

No class, no civility, no facts just absolute disgusting ignorant bullying.

Ahmadinejad is finally calling their bluff.  If they want to deal with him, it will be on mutual terms, not one-sided bullying.

It’s like the Palestinians and the Israelis.  Over 50 years of being brutalized and dehumanized and you don’t much give a you know what anymore.

Go ahead Bushy Bullies....see how far it gets you this time.  Someone’s calling your poker hand and guess what?  No one in the crowd is cheering for you on the world stage anymore..most hate your guts.

P.S.  Alot of we, your fellow Americans, can’t stand you or this administration either.  I thought my mom would never leave the Bush camp but baby, she’s gone.  And they’re leaving in droves.  Only the few really loyal faux Nazi Nutcases are gonna follow him blindly if there’s another war he gets into.

By the way, the Hispanics in the L.A. ROTC held a press conference today.  They are urging all Hispanics to stay out of the military and are refusing to go guard the border.

Your little world is crumbling around you.  Better stop waving all those little dime store flags double-time.  Your just getting weak wrists.

Nobody much cares about you or likes you or him anymore.

Enjoy.

The Persians won’t go for the enrichment suspension. They want nuclear weapons so they can have their Twelfth Imam back and bring on the Apocalypse, or nuke the Joooos, or be Big Man On Campus, or whatever. But this gets us out from behind the Eight Ball where Useful Idiots like diane had us.

Today, they are known as Iranians.  The Jooos are more likely to do the nuking; they’ve proven they are willing to attack at the drop of a yarmulke.  (I’ve heard enough jokes about turbans and camels).  They’ve attacked their neighbors pre-emptively...ask Lebanon.

As for useful idiots..at least I’m useful.  You’re good for nothing.  Simply an idiot.  No use whatsoever to you.

Jeez, so the local Nazi showed up. Well, ein volk, ein Reich, ein Fuhrer, eh? All broken up that Adolf didn’t finish the job, eh? Want ol’ Ahmadhi-Nejad to make the Middle East Judenrein, once and for all, Ja!

That’s what I like about you lefties. In the end, you’re all a bunch of fascist gangsters, just like Adolf. You gravitate to the strongest, like Che, Fidel, Mao, and the latest flavor of the month, a real, honest-to-God Jew-baiter, Ahamdhi-Nejad. Right out of Julius Streicher’s playbook. There’s literally not a dime’s worth of difference between the extreme left and the Sturmabteilungen, it’s what Orwell figured out when Midnight struck Europe at the signing of the Molotov-Ribbentrop Pact.

You’re a fascist, diane. You and your friends. And you’re enabling the greatest threat to humanity since Stalin and Hitler were in alliance with each other. You should feel a sense of shame. But as you are a leftist, you operate out of a sense of profound ignorance, truism, and condescension. You’re worse than a member of the Hitler Youth: they didn’t have the example of history. You do.

One has to laugh .
Let’s see now what to I associate with Hitler and the Nazis? Well there’s invading other countries on false pretences, Hitler claimed Poland attacked first and that his invasion was about freeing a part of the Polish population from oppression. What Hitler really wanted of course was Poland’s coal reserves. Then of course the Nazis were involved in collective punishment, destroying complete villages if they refused to give up resistance members, they also killed civilians at random in a revenge attack if any of their troops were killed. The Nazis were involved in torture, massacres, rape and extortion.
Frankly none of these things remind me of Diane or the political opposition to the Bush regime.

I appreciate you claim that everyone else are Nazis instead of accepting the obvious is a part of your defence mechanism based on attack is the best form of defence, it may convince your fellow ignoramuses in the backwater where you live, but frankly it fools no one else.

Oil prices are high, hurting at the pump --sound to me like Iran is the one running the winning strategy (I despise that)

...market volatility is one of the main reason why gas prices are so high.

Well it’s hardly a surprise that Bush pointless and unfounded accusations against Iran would cause oil prices either increase or hold their present high levels.
It’s makes you wonder if Bush has any links with the oil/refining industry.

1.3 million killed by the sanctions imposed on Iraq?

Heh, Michael, there is no lie spewed by a dictator opposed to the US that you will not believe, is there.

I bet you kiss your signed photo of George Galloway every night before you go to bed.

You probably believe that the US is more ‘fascistic’ than Iran I suppose.

Or wait, maybe you think that North Korea is a beacon of freedom, and that the US is one big concentration camp.

Or wait, maybe you believe that Castro’s Cuba is free and open, but that the press in the US is controlled by ‘zionists’.

Or perhaps you think Robert Mugabe is an anti-imperialist hero, beloved by his people, but that Bush is an unelected Nazi dictator.

We have guaranteed freedom of speech, freedom of religion, and freedom of assembly in the United States.

Oh but no, we’re the fascists!

Israel has a democracy with free elections, a free press and the rule of law.

But no - they are fascists, the real democrats are the Palestinians!  Heheheheh they elected Hamas, right?

You are a real Orwellian numbskull - freedom is slavery, peace is war, truth is fiction.

Now, we wait patiently for dhianne to call Ken McCrackpot, call me a zionist (even though im not even fucking Jewish) and pat herself on the back for another “NeoCon Thrashing (tm)”

...any minute now…

man, that dhianne is soo intelligent. What, with her amazing ability to:

1. Log on to DU
2. Cut the anti-semitic/ anti-Bush rant du jour
3. Log on to say anything
4. Paste said rant on a post that has NOT ONE FUCKING THING TO DO WITH THE RANT

I mean, she really handed me my ass in that last post about the relevance of Palestinian claims to Gaza.

If by handing me my ass you mean she called me a zionist the recommended number of times. That must be the way they declare victory in her world.

It would be cute if it wasn’t so throughly pathetic.

I mean, I support the special olympics, but this is ridiculous. Why should I even waste my time posting well-reasoned arguements when dhianne responds by calling me a zionist, and posts 5 more times to complain why no one pays attention to her, and pats herself on the back by being a “beacon of truth”?

So, consider this my resignation from civility. While I do not like to use words so superflously as 2H9 does, believe me when I tell you that dhianne, you are not worth my time.

Let me repeat that: you are not worth my time.

Now you’ll excuse me, I really need to piss and my neighbor’s Q’uran is looking like it needs an infusion of American color right about now.

I bet you kiss your signed photo of George Galloway every night before you go to bed.

He certainly showed up the American politicians as being jackasses.

You probably believe that the US is more ‘fascistic’ than Iran I suppose.

Is there any doubt?

Or wait, maybe you think that North Korea is a beacon of freedom, and that the US is one big concentration camp.

Not at all, N. Korea is a danger, but not one the US is concerned about since they don’t have any oil.

Or wait, maybe you believe that Castro’s Cuba is free and open.

Castro unlike Bush has done a lot to improve life for his people, can hardly say that about Bush.

but that the press in the US is controlled by ‘zionists’.

Not the slightest doubt about it.

Or perhaps you think Robert Mugabe is an anti-imperialist hero, beloved by his people.

On the contrary, but once again he’s safe due to the lack of oil.

but that Bush is an unelected Nazi dictator.

Bush like Hitler was elected

We have guaranteed freedom of speech, freedom of religion, and freedom of assembly in the United States.

Really, so no college lecturers have been sacked for their views, no body’s home has been visited by the CIA because their 8 year old child expressed anti-Bush sentiments?
Oh but no, we’re the fascists!

Israel has a democracy with free elections, a free press and the rule of law.

Israel is a only a democracy if you are Jewish, no democracy bans a proportion of citizens from owning land or property.

Veritas, you seem to be getting bored with her bland predictability, as have I.

I don’t even read her comments anymore - they have ceased even having any entertainment value.

The clown show is over for me.

In that case McCrackers why do you continue to respond with absurdities?

Well Michael now I see you have to invent stuff to be outraged about.

College professors sacked for their views? Like who - Ward Churchill? He has merely been suspended, for PLAGIARISM you dope, not for his views.

And the CIA is going to people’s homes over anti-Bush statements? What the hell kind of drugs are you on? Give us a link - this should make for a really good laugh.

Castro has ‘improved’ the lives of his people? What, by ruining the economy such that only Haiti has a lower standard of living now in the western hemisphere? There goes your Orwellian dimthink again - poverty is riches, riches is poverty.

As for Iran - if you think Iran is freer and more democratic than the US, you are clearly insane. No more proof is needed.

And the only person Galloway made a jackass out of was himself - when he perjured himself before Congress. He may yet sit in a jail cell for taking Saddam’s dirty graft.

Well McCrackers you’ve certainly highlighted another way fascism is alive and well in the USA, clearly some media content is being withheld from you. Yes the fact that parents were visited by the CIA at home because their child indicated anti-Bush sentiments is very true, likewise with the lecturer, who you claim was not actually sacked but suspended. Seems to me either way he was silenced

Galloway showed that Norm Coleman was a compulsive liar, you might want to put a brave face on that obvious fact, but it’s certainly the impression people got back here in the UK. Equally if the USA has any proof at all that Galloway accepted funds for personal use from Saddam perhaps they should release that information, or to use the words that other imbecile “Bolton”, put up or shut up.

http://66.249.93.104/search?q=cache:d3wv5DUJCZgJ:www.b.150m.com/writers/hentoff/door.html+school+child+%22visit+by+FBI%22&hl=en&gl=uk&ct=clnk&cd=1

Political dissent can bring federal agents to (your) door,” she told of a visit by FBI agents and the Secret Service to Houston’s Art Car Museum. They were investigating a tip that “anti-American activity” was going on there. They found, Axtman reported, “an exhibit on past U.S. covert operations and government secrets.”

The museum’s docent, Donna Huanca, asked her visitors, after they showed their badges and said why they had come, “What’s anti-American about free speech?”

Barry Reingold of San Francisco had reason to ask the same question when two FBI agents announced themselves on the intercom at the residence of the 60-year-old retired phone company worker.

They told him that a fellow weightlifter at his gym had called the FBI to report that Reingold is a disloyal American. This, as Reingold told the Christian Science Monitor, is what led to the FBI’s visit:

At the gym, “discussion had turned to bin Laden and what a horrible murderer he was. I said, ‘Yeah, he’s horrible and did a horrible thing, but Bush has nothing to be proud of. He is a servant of the big oil companies, and his only interest in the Middle East is oil.’”

Summation of Michael’s viewpoints -

Iran does not want nuclear weapons. It is “silly” to say otherwise. Any indication that they are working towards attaining nuclear weapons is to be ignored. If they do want nuclear weapons, Israel is safe because there are Arabs there. Nevermind the fact that we aren’t dealing with sanity in regards to Iran, it’s time to “face reality” and trust them. “Only a complete loon could envisage Iran attacking Israel with nuclear weapons.”

“Bush is a proved liar” and Iraq is “illegal adventure for oil”. Nevermind the fact that neither assertion has been proven, just take Michael’s word and insults as proof.

“puppet Iraqi government”

“extreme right yanqui fascists” Nevermind the fact that the phrase makes little, if any, sense.

“Bush is renowned for his stupidity” even though he can speak without using numerous insults. Michael, the more intelligent one, can’t express himself without using little-kid insults. Bush is also like Hitler even though his delusions and politics are more in line with Michael’s beliefs than Bush. Nevermind that.

“1.3 million Iraqis” died under the sanctions and this is all the big bad United States’ fault. Forget about Saddam, just blame America! If you disagree than you are one of the “ignoramuses in the backwater”. (Did Michael say how smart he is yet? With these killer arguments, he has to be smart!)

George Galloway is a stand-up guy who “showed up the American politicians as being jackasses”. Nevermind the fact that George Galloway has been a political jackass himself for decades.

Castro’s Cuba “has done a lot to improve life for his people” and Bush hasn’t. Nevermind the fact that Bush’s job isn’t to improve the life of anybody and nevermind the fact that the nation’s people aren’t Bush’s people (rather it is the other way around, i.e.: Bush is our guy). Cuba is a “a success story” with lower child mortality. Nevermind the many families who get on an innertube to brave 90 miles of shark infested ocean to get to America, because Michael says Cuba is a “success story”.

The U.S. is controlled by “zionists”.

Ward Churchill was suspended for plagarism. This is a case of him being politically “silenced”. Nevermind the fact that that makes no friggin’ sense, Michael isn’t wrong.

Bolton is an “imbecile”.

I congratulate Michael. One can clearly see with his language and taken positions that he is smarter than we “crackhead Yanqui fascists”. How could you not be swayed by his many insults, bullying behavior, and rude consecutive postings?

Meanwhile diane is bitching that people here have, “No class, no civility, no facts just absolute disgusting ignorant bullying.” What does diane say? Well, she is above the “absolute disgusting ignorant bullying”. For example - she says, “dufus” (this is okay because it is “namecalling lite"), “You duplicitous faux patriotic Bush Wipes”, “it’s a crock of bull so shaddapaboutit”, “Arab hating ignoramuses”, “anti-Arab anti-semitic anti-Muslim numbskull”, “Idiot Savant Tourette’s Boy”, “Bushy Bullies”, “most hate your guts”, “loyal faux Nazi Nutcases”, “Nobody much cares about you or likes you or him anymore.”, “idiot”. None of this is bullying though because diane is above the many things she’s a victim of. She’s better than you and you’re just an idiot.

This is precious. The spittle-on-the-keyboard Lefties show up to rationalize their Herrenvolk anti-Semitism.

Reminds me of the saying, “I went to a Code Pink demonstration and the 1935 Nuremburg Parteitag Rally broke out.” Who’s filming these rants of diane and Michael’s anyway, Leni Riefenstahl?

She was a much better filmmaker than Michael Moore, anyway. Of course, Moore was a con man who made off with these gullible lefties’ money, anyway.

When you get right down to it, if you scratch real hard at the modern, antiwar Left, you get to the Jew-baiting. That’s where you got with Cindy Sheehan, for instance, who was caught out prattling the “I don’t want my son to die for Israel” clap trap, before Joe Trippi got to her and shut her up. She tried to lie about it later, but too many of her e-mails caught up with her. Basically, antiwar Jews, for instance, found out that with Sheehan, you had an updated version of the Father Coughlin radio broadcasts of the late Thirties, which were rich in their Jew bashing. Sheehan was simply better at concealing it, that’s all.

This crowd, mostly made up of spoiled rotten White Liberal Protestants, is much more up front about the whole Hook Nosed Jewish Neocon Banker’s Konspiracy to Send Klueless Goyim To War and whatnot. This is primarily because of the anonimity of the internet. That’s why you get such rich undercurrents of the Der Sturmer stuff on DU and Kos. There’s also the demographic thing going on where there’s a vast influx of Arab-American, especially Palestinian voters, into the Democratic Party.

You’ll see the Democrats as an institution become far more like the Eurotrash Socialist parties as the years go by, as Jews leave the Dhimmis for the safety of the Republican Party as the Arabs move into the Democratic Party and anti-Semitism and anti-Israel politics becomes more pronounced there. Some liberals have tried to warn the Dhimmis about this, but it’s a demographic thing, and there’s little they can do about it.

You NewWorldNazis are a gas, I hardly think you are in a position to complain about personal abuse.

As I pointed out, without contradiction it seems, the similarities between the German Nazi regime and Bush’s America are there for everyone to see, they are indisputable, time for you to accept the unpleasant truth.

Heh, Michael is such an ignoramus, he doesn’t know the difference between the CIA and the FBI.

Oh, god forbid that the FBI should ever investigate suspect terrorist ties! And it proved to be false . . .

Gasp!

I guess then the FBI should never investigate anything! 

Bill Clinton said Saddam had WMDs.

Madeline Albright called for war in 1998 based upon the proof.

The Czechs, the Poles and the Germans all believed that Saddam had WMDs.

But somehow . . . Bush knew that all this intelligence was false! With divine clarity he could see it was not true - but acted anyway.

And Saddam had voluminous ties to terrorism. He was sheltering Abu Nidal. He was sheltering Zarqawi. He had terrorist training camps at Salman Pak. He was paying money to the families of Palestinian terrorist. That is all indisputable.

But, you see, those folks are Michael’s friends, so we dare not cast aspersions on them.

huh, what did Colin Powell say 2/24/01 about Saddam and weapons?

FBI or CIA it’s rather a pedantic point McCrackers, the point is people in the USA are coming under investigation for simply criticising their Fuhrer.
Did I ever claim that Clinton and Albright were any better than Bush? The illegal invasion of Iraq for oil was planned for over a decade, that’s why the Sanctions were never released, Iraq was softened up in preparation.
Many countries believed in the first instance the Yanqui propaganda concerning WMD.

But there is one clear case which is beyond dispute where Bush undoubtedly lied. I posted the following some time ago on another forum but I will reproduce it here for your benefit.

Bush Says Iraq War Was Justified Even Though Intelligence Wrong
http://www.bloomberg.com/apps/news?pid=10000087&sid=aOxFsmhzls_g&refer=top_world_news#
Despite the fact that Saddam was NO threat and had no links with terrorism. Neither was the intelligence false, he had made up his mind to invade Iraq for the oil and chose the intelligence to suit his purposes.

Bush often claimed that the information provided by Saddam’s son-in-law, Hussein Kamel, (in an interview with Western security services in 1995) on the extent of Iraq’s attempts to develop weapons proved that Iraq still had WMD.

This was a straight lie, there’s absolutely NO way that the US Intelligence Services believed otherwise.
http://middleeastreference.org.uk/kamel.html

In the transcript of the interview, Kamel states categorically:

“I ordered destruction of all chemical weapons. All weapons - biological, chemical, missile, nuclear were destroyed”
(p. 13).

Kamel specifically discussed the significance of anthrax, which he portrayed as the “main focus” of the biological programme (pp.7-8). Smidovich asked Kamel: “were weapons and agents destroyed?”

Kamel replied: “nothing remained”.

He confirmed that destruction took place “after visits of inspection teams. You have important role in Iraq with this. You should not underestimate yourself. You are very effective in Iraq.” (p.7)

Kamel added: “I made the decision to disclose everything so that Iraq could return to normal.” (p.8)

Furthermore, Kamel describes the elimination of prohibited missiles: “not a single missile left but they had blueprints and molds for production. All missiles were destroyed.” (p.8)

On VX, Kamel claimed: “they put it in bombs during last days of the Iran-Iraq war. They were not used and the programme was terminated.” (p.12).

Ekeus asked Kamel: “did you restart VX production after the Iran-Iraq war?”

Kamel replied: “we changed the factory into pesticide production. Part of the establishment started to produce medicine [...] We gave insturctions [sic] not to produce chemical weapons.” (p.13).

Despite the significance of these claims, it was not known that Kamel made this assertion until February 2003. Kamel’s claim was first carried on 24 February 2003 by Newsweek, who reported that Kamel told U.N. inspectors that Iraq had destroyed its entire stockpile of chemical and biological weapons and banned missiles, as Iraq claims (Newsweek, 3/3/03). Newsweek reported that the weapons were destroyed secretly, in order to hide their existence from inspectors, in the hopes of someday resuming production after inspections had finished. The CIA and MI6 were told the same story, Newsweek reported.

http://www.fair.org/index.php?page=1845

Kamel’s defection has been cited repeatedly by George W. Bush and leading administration officials as evidence that 1) Iraq has not disarmed; 2) inspections cannot disarm it; and 3) defectors such as Kamel are the most reliable source of information on Iraq’s weapons.

Bush declared in an October 7, 2002 speech: “In 1995, after several years of deceit by the Iraqi regime, the head of Iraq’s military industries defected. It was then that the regime was forced to admit that it had produced more than 30,000 liters of anthrax and other deadly biological agents. The inspectors, however, concluded that Iraq had likely produced two to four times that amount. This is a massive stockpile of biological weapons that has never been accounted for, and capable of killing millions.”

Secretary of State Colin Powell’s February 5 presentation to the U.N. Security Council claimed: “It took years for Iraq to finally admit that it had produced four tons of the deadly nerve agent, VX. A single drop of VX on the skin will kill in minutes. Four tons. The admission only came out after inspectors collected documentation as a result of the defection of Hussein Kamel, Saddam Hussein’s late son-in-law.”

In a speech last August (8/27/02), Vice President Dick Cheney said Kamel’s story “should serve as a reminder to all that we often learned more as the result of defections than we learned from the inspection regime itself.”

Deputy National Security Advisor Stephen Hadley recently wrote in the Chicago Tribune (2/16/03) that “because of information provided by Iraqi defector and former head of Iraq’s weapons of mass destruction programs, Lt. Gen. Hussein Kamel, the regime had to admit in detail how it cheated on its nuclear non-proliferation commitments.”

Who is this Michael guy and why does he think he’s interesting?

Why do you think you are interesting Carrick? We already have a surplus of right wing yanqui nutters.

Bush was completely justified in invading Iraq even if there were no WMDs. Stop perpetuating this nonsense that WMDs were the only reason to invade. He was housing terrorists, including al-Qaeda. He was training terrorists, he was a menace to his neighbors, and an even bigger menace to his own people. He was completely destabilizing the region, and he completely undermined and corrupted the UN.

You know Michael you just an addled moron. If you think that Kamel was the only intelligence resource for the war on Iraq, and if you believe that there was some decade-old master plan to take over Iraq’s oil that started under the Clinton administration (!?) you are just a sap who believes any rubbish that comes your way.

Clinton planned an invasion to take Iraq’s oil.

Now I think I have heard everything.

[At] a press conference on 24 February 2001 during Powell’s visit to Cairo, Egypt. Answering a question about the US-led sanctions against Iraq, the Secretary of State said:

We had a good discussion, the Foreign Minister and I and the President and I, had a good discussion about the nature of the sanctions—the fact that the sanctions exist—not for the purpose of hurting the Iraqi people, but for the purpose of keeping in check Saddam Hussein’s ambitions toward developing weapons of mass destruction. We should constantly be reviewing our policies, constantly be looking at those sanctions to make sure that they are directed toward that purpose. That purpose is every bit as important now as it was ten years ago when we began it. And frankly they have worked. He has not developed any significant capability with respect to weapons of mass destruction. He is unable to project conventional power against his neighbors. So in effect, our policies have strengthened the security of the neighbors of Iraq...

Interesting statement, no?

I didn’t expect you to admit the truth McCrackers. Bush and his cohorts often referred to Kamel as you can see from the examples I gave. There’s actually only two possibilities, one that American Intelligence (seems a contradiction of terms ) actually gave the President false information deliberately, in which case you must ask the question “why?” or that Bush deliberately reversed the actual intelligence to pave the way for the illegal invasion, that in reality is the only possible explanation.
I mentioned the Kamel incident because it’s the clearest, undisputable proof, that Bush “LIED”, not mislead, but LIED.
As for Saddam destabilising the area, are you serious ? That’s exactly what the USA has done. No Saddam never had links with Al Qaeda, indeed he had nothing in common with them ideologically. And of course it was the USA that undermined the UN by attempting to obtain another Resolution based entirely on lies, failing to get it, but launching an illegal invasion anyway.

(get ready for the Saddam tapes defense)

Michael, again, you know damn well there were many, many more sources of intelligence that Saddam’s nephew.

Geez you know, Saddam only INVADED KUWAIT AND IRAN - was it beyond the realm of possibility that he might do something like that again? Of course he destabilized the entire region.

And if Saddam had no ties to al-Qaeda - why then was he giving shelter to Zarqawi, of all people.

Hmm?

As for Powell’s statement - Bush ran against the Clinton concept of ‘nation building’. But 911 changed all that. Suddenly, there was the political will available to finish the job that Bush’s father damn well should have finished during the first Gulf War - and he had the legal mandate to do so. The invasion of Iraq was not some “preemptive war against a nation that did not threaten us” - it was a continuation of the first Gulf War because Saddam failed to live up to his agreements. You might not care to believe that Saddam had ties to al-Qaeda, you might not believe that he was sponsoring terrorism, but the fact is he was doing both.

“Trying to eliminate Saddam ... would have incurred incalculable human and political costs. Apprehending him was probably impossible. ...We would have been forced to occupy Baghdad and, in effect, rule Iraq.”

Bush 41

“We have no evidence that Saddam Hussein was involved with the Sept. 11 attacks.”

President Bush
September, 2003

Bush 41 was clearly wrong on not finishing off Saddam, in my opinion.

It was the biggest mistake of his administration.

Michael, again, you know damn well there were many, many more sources of intelligence that Saddam’s nephew.

Yes indeed, like the Niger yellowcake forged documents. In that case it’s difficult to prove that Bush knew the documants were forged, there’s no such doubt with the Kamel scenario.
I only highlighted this one because it’s a clear example of Bush lying, nothing to do with faulty intelligence

Geez you know, Saddam only INVADED KUWAIT AND IRAN - was it beyond the realm of possibility that he might do something like that again?

The real intelligence clearly confirmed that Saddam had destroyed all WMD on or before 1995, there’s was NO eveidence to the contrary. Iraq was in an extremely weak state it was in no position to attack another country.

Of course he destabilized the entire region.

Well perhaps in 1990/1, that’s hardly an excuse for an illegal inavsion in 2003, but it’s the USA that’s destabilizing it now.

And if Saddam had no ties to al-Qaeda - why then was he giving shelter to Zarqawi, of all people.

Zarqawi did spend time in a Baghdad hospital but there’s no eveidence at all to suggest that he met with Iraqi officials or government ministers. There’s certainly no proved link between Saddam and Zarqawi.

Michael spits, Despite the fact that Saddam was NO threat and had no links with terrorism.

And then goes on to insult and tell us how dumb everybody else is.

Amazing, isn’t it?

The only way the Kemal situation ‘proves’ Bush was lying is if you believe Kemal was the sole source of intelligence on the matter. You know that isn’t true. If it is - why then were european intelligence agencies saying Saddam had WMDs? Why did the Clinton administration believe he had WMDs?

Oh yeah, there is that dumbass theory of yours that Clinton planned an invasion for Iraq’s oil, I suppose.

Saddam still posed a huge threat to the region. He still had his Republican Guard among other things - Saudi Arabia didn’t have the forces to stop him, Kuwait certainly didn’t.

Zarqawi was in Iraq - there it is. So was Abu Nidal. Remember him, the guy who attacked the Achille Lauro? Sounds like a terror connection to me. Training terrorists in a facility with a airliner fuselage. Sound familiar?

Funny, I thought it was when he pardoned a convicted criminal, three guys who plead guilty and 2 other pending cases.

Clair E. George
Duane R. Clarridge
Alan D. Fiers Jr
Robert C. McFarlane
Caspar W. Weinberger
Elliott Abrams

Good thing none of these guys are working with the White House now. Oh, wait…

Ken McCracken opines, The only way the Kemal situation ‘proves’ Bush was lying is if you believe Kemal was the sole source of intelligence on the matter. You know that isn’t true.

Ahhh! So Michael is the one lying here. Well that makes a hell of a lot more sense. Only a liar or a fool would believe that Cuba is a “success story” or that “Saddam was NO threat and had no links with terrorism”.

The only way the Kemal situation ‘proves’ Bush was lying is if you believe Kemal was the sole source of intelligence on the matter.

You are either deliberately missing the point or incapable of understanding it. I’m referring strictly to the information and statement made my Kamel, it was the complete opposite of what Bush and his accomplices claimed. I’m not as you see claiming that Kamel was the only source of intelligence, most of that was contrived as well, but in the case of Kamel it was clearly fabricated.

You know that isn’t true. If it is - why then were european intelligence agencies saying Saddam had WMDs? Why did the Clinton administration believe he had WMDs?

They were simply trusting the Bush administration, a stupid thing to do. Apart from Blair of course, Bush clearly had a pact with the poodle.

Oh yeah, there is that dumbass theory of yours that Clinton planned an invasion for Iraq’s oil, I suppose.

Well then let’s go back to Mad. Albright, she said the deaths of 500,000 Iraqi children were “worth it”. Worth what exactly?

Saddam still posed a huge threat to the region. He still had his Republican Guard among other things - Saudi Arabia didn’t have the forces to stop him, Kuwait certainly didn’t.

It’s fantasy stuff McCrackers, Saddam was no threat to any other nation in 2003 or indeed since the first Gulf War.

Zarqawi was in Iraq - there it is. So was Abu Nidal. Remember him, the guy who attacked the Achille Lauro? Sounds like a terror connection to me. Training terrorists in a facility with a airliner fuselage. Sound familiar?

Many terrorists reside in the USA, that’s not to say the US Government is linked with them. Saddam couldn’t be responsible for every patient in Iraqi hospitals and as I said, there’s not the slightest evidence there was any link between Zarqawi and Saddam/Iraq.

The CIA reported that the airplane structure was used for anti-terrorisim training during the Iran/Iraq war. UN inspectors reported the fusalage in the early 1990’s.
You only need to go to any major airport to see an aircraft fusalage used for training.

NOW WE NEED A FENCE ACROSS THE NORTHERN BORDER TOO!

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20060603/ap_on_re_ca/canada_terrorism_arrests&printer=1;_ylt=Ai2B3TyRgARawX.S0QLAgcM5bg8F;_ylu=X3oDMTA3MXN1bHE0BHNlYwN0bWE-

Nah, we already got a plan to invade Canadia.

Lot less work than putting up a barb wire fence.

Canadian authorities said Saturday they had foiled plans for terrorist attacks in southern Ontario with the arrests of 17 people who were “inspired by al-Qaida.”

The Royal Canadian Mounted Police said they had arrested 12 male adults and five youths on terrorism-related charges, including plotting attacks with explosives on Canadian targets. The suspects were either citizens or residents of Canada and had trained together, they said.

“This group took steps to acquire three tons of ammonium nitrate and other components necessary to create explosive devices,” said assistant Royal Canadian Mounted Police commissioner Mike McDonell.

That is three times the amount used to blow up the Murrah Federal Building in Oklahoma City, he said, referring to the April 19, 1995, attack that killed 168 people and injured more than 800.

Didn’t they get the memo…we are suppose to be fighting them over there…damn it.

This just proves what a joke invading Iraq was.

The war on terror will be won with intelligence not occupying armies.

Well then let’s go back to Mad. Albright, she said the deaths of 500,000 Iraqi children were “worth it”. Worth what exactly?

Yet not for oil.

Interesting.

Damn caribou jockeys.

For what then McCrackers? Because they wanted to free the poor Iraqis from tyranny by killing them?

the conceitedly named “realitybasedbob” says, This just proves what a joke invading Iraq was.

The war on terror will be won with intelligence not occupying armies.

Right. Like an army to take out a terrorist dictator? Totally stupid man. We should, just like, just spy on them and stuff man.

plotting attacks with explosives on Canadian targets. The suspects were either citizens or residents of Canada

Doesn’t this really illustrate the stupidity of the crowd that says we provoked them and if we just be nice to them they’ll leave us alone.

Teddy, name someone who said that.

Welcomed as liberators…Slam dunk.

Doesn’t this really illustrate the stupidity of the crowd that said that? If we are just nice to them maybe they’ll leave us alone.

Doesn’t this really illustrate the stupidity of the crowd that said that?

No. Because, by and large, it is true. Now you won’t accept that reality despite your ridiculous name - so what does that say about you?

Michael, I would not presume to know what the Clinton administration dimwits were thinking.

I thought Bush was the one with all the ‘oil buddies’ though - not Clinton.

A “ridiculous name” coming from someone whose name suggests his shoes are filled with piss.

Ahhh Michael. The one with little else but insults.

When are you graduating high school by chance? Just curious…

I thought Bush was the one with all the ‘oil buddies’ though - not Clinton.

Yes of course there’s an extra incentive for Bush , his friends get to make a lot of money from it. But there’s not the slightest doubt that the reasons for the illegal invasion of Iraq were all oil related and for the economic benefit of the USA.

But there’s not the slightest doubt that the reasons for the illegal invasion of Iraq were all oil related and for the economic benefit of the USA.

You keep on saying “illegal invasion” like it’s true. Even funnier is the claim that the war was “all oil related” and when asked how, all you claim is that Bush’s oil friends get to make money. Like that even makes a lot of sense.

Did you know that our Congress voted for this war therefore making it legal? Are they all in for the oil as well?

And just where is all that damn free oil, anyway?

Lesley Stahl on U.S. sanctions against Iraq: We have heard that a half million children have died. I mean, that’s more children than died in Hiroshima. And, you know, is the price worth it?

Secretary of State Madeleine Albright: I think this is a very hard choice, but the price--we think the price is worth it.

--60 Minutes (5/12/96)

Well I’ll be damned.

Heh, of course Saddam provided the death figures, so you know it was complete fiction.

But still.

My incontinent friend Likwidshoe writes ”You keep on saying “illegal invasion” like it’s true. Even funnier is the claim that the war was “all oil related” and when asked how, all you claim is that Bush’s oil friends get to make money. Like that even makes a lot of sense.
Did you know that our Congress voted for this war therefore making it legal? Are they all in for the oil as well?

The US Congress doesn’t have the power to over rule International law. There was no UN Resolution authorising the invasion therefore it was illegal. Clearly if individual countries had a legal right to overrule International Law, it would become worthless. Hitler thought he had the right as well but found out the truth eventually

3) There was a plan to re-open a defunct oil pipeline down to Haifa such provide the apartheid state with their own direct supply, hence Israel’s interest in promoting the war and also their interest in trying the same scam with Iran.
Once again a failed ambition.

McCrackers writes “Heh, of course Saddam provided the death figures, so you know it was complete fiction.”

Actually he didn’t, the UN did and noticeably Mad Albright didn’t even try and question them.

The Iraq War was a continuation of the Gulf War, not a new conflict. It was a legal invasion.

Your ‘evidence’ that the war was for oil is of course completely specious.

The dollar is hardly becoming ‘worthless’ for one thing, and Russia has already been selling oil in Euros for a long time - that is why the Euro goes up along with oil prices.

The Fed has stated that they are pretty much happy to see the dollar fall. Helps the trade deficit you see, and there are no plans that I am aware of to even try to defend the dollar.

Heh, you are blaming the Iraqi invasion on Venezuela selling oil for Euros? Funny, that hasn’t even happened yet. And lower Iraqi oil production now is a cause of the war then? Your ex post facto arguments are just ridiculous.

And finally, when in doubt, blame the joooos!

The UN provided the figures?

Heh, again, you know its fiction.

The Iraq War was a continuation of the Gulf War, not a new conflict. It was a legal invasion.

You seem to know nothing McCrackers, the UN Resolution issued at the time Iraq invaded Kuwait covered just the liberation of Iraq and not an invasion 12 years later. Why, you must ask yourself, did the US try and get another Resolution in 2003?

Your ‘evidence’ that the war was for oil is of course completely specious.

There’s no other explanation, you certainly haven’t been able to provide one.
The dollar is hardly becoming ‘worthless’ for one thing, and Russia has already been selling oil in Euros for a long time - that is why the Euro goes up along with oil prices.

The Euro was worth around 87cents a short while ago now it’s around US$1.30 and there’s no end in sight. You are also wrong about Russian oil, it will happen soon but not at the moment.

The Fed has stated that they are pretty much happy to see the dollar fall. Helps the trade deficit you see, and there are no plans that I am aware of to even try to defend the dollar.

You don’t have the capability of defending the dollar, it’s falling because of market forces and not because of any plan by the Fed..
Also there’s no sign of your deficit improving despite the dollar’s falling value and partly the reason for this is that people all over the world are activily avoid